THEME FOR THE DAY THEME FOR THE DAY THEME FOR THE DAY
Time is short before I head out to work , so I'll save the comments on the sofar fine outpouring till this evennings return.
CLASSICS # 34 THE FRED HARVEY STORY
Well what is to say about the ATSF'S long passenegre history without mentioning, the man who pioneered good food service and good food for the travelling public.Before Fred Harvey's arrival on the scene, railroad food service was abysmal at best.All food was served at the depots and trains would stop for ten minutes, with passenegers paying 50 cents in advance for the questionable lunch or supper of old bacon, canned beans , eggs , and those heavy leadlike hardtack biscuits. It was said that the raod houses were often inleague with the train crews and that as soon as this "fare" was served the conductor would call all aboard and the passenegers would scramble for the train leaving most of the food uneaten.The roadhouse woyuld then collect the remains and serve it to the next train load,with the trian crews paid off at 10 cents a passenger !
Enter Fred Harvey, he came over from england in 1853 with the dreams of satrting a restaurant. His first was opened with a partner in 1859 in St louis the then bustling gateway to teh west.Unfortunatly in 1861 his business partner absconded with the all the restaurant funds to the south to help fund the Cofederacie's war effort.
So in 1862 Harvey joined the Mississippi River packet line which ran to St Joseph. Harvey was hired on as a distributing clerk in the St Joseph mailroom,then later as a postal worker on the mailcars for the Hannibal & St Joseph Railroad, one of the early pioneer roads which was notable refered to as the Horrible Slow & Jolting.This was his first taste of the state of the railway food industry.
In 1865 Harvey was the general western agent for the North Missouri River Railroad and got back into the food industry with his new partner Jeff Rice with each openeing restaurants in Hugo and Wallace.After a few months the men separated company dividing up the profits. Harvey then went to the Burlington railroadwith the idea to provide good food and good service to the passenegers.But the Burlington was not interested !
Harvey approached Charles Morse the superintendant of the ATSF,whom he had known from his stint at the Burlington.Morse also appreciated fine dinning and the two of them pursuadede WS Strong the ATSF's general manager at the time to give Harvey's ideas a try.Thus the first harvey House was openned in Topeka, Kansas.
Harvey purchased the small restaurant in the old Topeka depot,closed it down for two days and scrubbed it down, then got new high quality table cloths, napkins and polished silver. The santa Fe supplied the materials and suplpies for the venture on a handshake deal,which was the only kind of deal Harvey usually made as he believed in te gentlemans code.Within a few weeks this eating house was doing capacity business and the ATSF agreed to expand the exparamnet in 1877 and bought a rundown hotel in Florance.Harvey ordered silver and china from Sheffield in england and new first rate rtable linnens from Ireland.A Chicago chef was brought in and this small town of 100 had this huge railway restaurant of it's own all becayuse iof it's location alomng the ATSF As the yeas went by these harvey houses and the famous harvey girls of plain virtue and beauty sprung up all along the line and eventually the Harvey type food was served in the roads dinning cars as well. Even during the depression no skimping was allowed harvey's food and quality was to remain high.
The Harvey Girls even inspired a Judy garland movie "The Harvey Girls"By the time 1943 rolled around the Harvey company s was serving over 30,000,000 meals to passengers and troops on the ATSF system. After the war the service started to diminish as people atarted to look to planes and cars instead of trains.In 1968 the Fred Harvey company was sold to Amfec out of Hawaii.Santa Fe surrendered it's passenger service to Amtrak in 1973 by which point the harvey services came to an end.Up until the time of it's sale the harvey comapny owned some of the biggest and most beautifull hotels in the Southwest.
Rob
Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.
DSL has favored us with an update and a travelogue with thoughtful commentary. I agree with your note about “In the Heat of the Night.” I spent more than a few years in that part of the world and the opening scenes with the GM&O train just take me back – the only thing missing is the humidity and the smell of hot vegetation and creosote. I have a lot of good memories of the GM&O. No Boris, you can put the bar towel away, I’m not having a pity party.
Pete – Thanks for the kind words re abandoned line.
Rob – CPR Part 3 – thank you.
Our ‘steamed proprietor has given us a long list of ATSF trains. The following is based on a survey of my collection of ATSF promotional materials, on-board service guides, and the Official Guide.
Remembrance of Things Past
Services on the El Capitan, San Francisco Chief, and the Super Chief
In its advertising copy the Santa Fe billed the El Capitan as “...America’s most popular economy service between Chicago and California.” The railroad assured potential passengers that they would do their “...best to make” a trip on the El Capitan “...an enjoyable travel experience.” What could the passenger expect?
The El Capitan had a hi-level diner which offered a “...fine selection of food at popular prices.” Breakfast started early and lunch was served beginning at 11:30 a.m. Dinner was “served immediately on departure from Los Angeles (7:30 p.m.) and Chicago (6:30 p.m.), at and 5:30 p.m. the next day.”
The lounge car on the El Capitan was “...a friendly meeting place for all passengers with attendants serving “...refreshments from morning to midnight.” The car also featured current magazines and newspapers and a writing desk. In the Kachina Coffee-Shop Lounge (located on the lower level of the lounge car) passengers could purchase “...coffee, milk, fruit juice, sweet rolls and sandwiches.” Service was available throughout the day “until late at night.”
A courier-nurse traveled on the El Capitan. She was an RN whose job was to “assist mothers traveling with children and any other passengers requiring her assistance.”
The El Capitan was an all-coach train. Chair car attendants were on duty to “...assist passengers with their luggage at no charge.” They would also assist passengers who needed help in operating the chair car’s leg rest seats. Pillows (50 cent rental) were available. Dressing rooms and lavatories were “...on the lower level of each chair car.” Lavatories could also be found on the upper level of the lounge car. Passenger’s luggage was carried in the lower level of each chair car. Luggage was checked and could be retrieved by the car attendant en route as needed. The Santa Fe recommended that passengers not “...store heavy luggage in racks...on the upper level of chair cars” as the racks were “...designed for personal items needed during” the trip. Although it was an all-coach train, the El Capitan featured “radio, music and train announcements throughout all cars.”
Last, the Santa Fe explained why the conductor collected passenger’s tickets. Tickets were collected to “...avoid bothering” passengers “each time there [was] a change of crews. If part of the ticket was to be returned, the passenger would get it back before reaching their destination.
Now, let’s take a look at the “San Francisco Chief.”
This train was advertised as “Sleeping Car and Chair Car Service – Chicago, Kansas City, and California.” The consist included hi-level chair cars, dining car, a big dome lounge, and 10 rtte/6 db sleepers between Chicago and Los Angeles and Chicago and Richmond. Cars were added and subtracted at Barstow depending upon their destinations.
The dining car was at the “...center of the train serving meals at popular prices.” Breakfast was at “...an early hour; Lunch 12 noon; Dinner 5:30 p.m.”
The Big Dome Lounge Car was also at the center of the train. Upper level seats were “...arranged to give an excellent view of the passing scenery. The lower level ha[d] a lounge section for refreshment service until midnight. Magazines and newspapers [were available].”
Sleeping car porters were “...anxious to make your trip pleasant and comfortable.” They provided a range of services such as handling luggage, “placing your hats in dust-free bags; shin[ing] shoes at night, and furnish[ing] pillows for daytime riding comfort. In addition, he will prepare your room for daytime or nighttime at your request, arrange refreshments or meal service in your rooms, and perform other similar services for your travel pleasure.”
Chair car attendants were on duty to “...assist passengers with their luggage at no charge.” They would also assist passengers who needed help in operating the chair car’s leg rest seats. The San Francisco Chief’s chair cars had seats equipped either with fixed headrests or adjustable headrests. Pillows (50 cent rental) were available. Passenger’s luggage was carried in the lower level of each chair car. Luggage was checked and could be retrieved by the car attendant en route as needed. The Santa Fe recommended that passengers not “...store heavy luggage in racks...on the upper level of chair cars” as the racks were “...designed for personal items needed during” the trip.
Porters and chair car attendants took car of San Francisco-bound passenger’s luggage. Their bags were tagged, unloaded at Richmond and trucked “...direct to the Santa Fe passenger terminal in downtown San Francisco to arrive when you arrive.”
Again, the Santa Fe explained why the conductor collected passenger’s tickets. Tickets were collected to “...avoid bothering” passengers “each time there [was] a change of crews. If part of the ticket was to be returned, the passenger would get it back before reaching their destination.
The “Super Chief,” of course, was the Santa Fe’s premiere train. This was listed as “All Private Room Sleeping Car Service, Chicago, Kansas City, and Los Angeles.” In the late 60’s passengers could select among 10 rtte/6 db cars; 11 double bedroom cars, or a 4 compartment/4 double bedroom/drawing room sleeper. The railroad their goal to “...make the Super Chief a train you’ll always remember providing the type of service you’ll never forget.” Each sleeper had radio and music available. Passengers if they desired could use their “...personal portable dictating machines” in their rooms.
The dining car featured “...delicious food served in the traditionally fine Santa Fe manner.” Meals could be served in passenger’s rooms for a small service charge.
The Pleasure Dome Lounge provided “...a delightful dome observation, as well as a specious main lounge and lower cocktail lounge.” Market bulletins were posted in the lounge, and the lounge car porter handled telegrams and mail service.
Passengers could consult with the steward to reserve the Super Chief’s Turquoise Room, a “...distinctive private dining room located in the Pleasure Dome car.” The Turquoise Room was designed to “...serve private parties of 6 to 10 persons.” It had to be reserved in advance for “...private dining parties at night, or private cocktail parties in the afternoon.”
The Super Chief also carried a courier nurse.
Now as Monty Python would say, for something completely different. This is an old one, but is still good.
An elderly man in Louisiana had owned a farm for several years.
He had a large pond in the back. It was properly shaped for swimming, so he fixed it up nice -- picnic tables, horseshoe courts, and some apple and peach trees.
One evening the old farmer decided to go down to the pond, as he hadn't been there for a while, and look it over.
He grabbed a five gallon bucket to bring back some fruit. As he neared the pond, he heard voices shouting and laughing with glee. As he came closer he saw it was a bunch of young women skinny-dipping in his pond.
He made the women aware of his presence and they all went to the deep end. One of the women shouted to him, "We're not coming out until you leave!"
The old man frowned, "I didn't come down here to watch you ladies swim naked or make you get out of the pond naked."
Holding the bucket up he said, "I'm here to feed the alligator."
Moral: Some old men can still think fast.
Work safe
Theme for the Day! - Theme for the Day!
AT&SF (Santa Fe - passenger ops)
The Santa Fe operated the following named trains on regular schedules:
· The Angel: San Francisco, California — Los Angeles, California — San Diego, California
· The Angelo: San Angelo, Texas — Fort Worth, Texas (on the GC&SF)
· The Antelope: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma — Kansas City, Missouri
· Atlantic Express: Los Angeles, California — Kansas City, Missouri (this was the eastbound version of the Los Angeles Express).
· California Express: Chicago, Illinois — Kansas City, Missouri — Los Angeles, California
· California Fast Mail: Chicago, Illinois — Los Angeles, California — San Francisco, California
· California Limited: Chicago, Illinois — San Francisco, California (via Los Angeles)
· California Special: Los Angeles, California — Clovis, New Mexico
· Cavern: Clovis, New Mexico — Carlsbad, New Mexico (connected with the Scout).
· Centennial State: Denver, Colorado — Chicago, Illinois
· Central Texas Express: Sweetwater, Texas — Lubbock, Texas
· Chicagoan: Kansas City, Missouri — Chicago, Illinois (this was the eastbound version of the Kansas Cityan passenger train).
· Chicago Express: Newton, Kansas — Chicago, Illinois
· Chicago Fast Mail: San Francisco, California — Los Angeles, California — Chicago, Illinois
· Chicago-Kansas City Flyer: Chicago, Illinois — Kansas City, Missouri
· The Chief: Chicago, Illinois — Los Angeles, California
· Eastern Express: Lubbock, Texas — Amarillo, Texas (this was the eastbound version of the West Texas Express).
· El Capitan: Chicago, Illinois — Los Angeles, California
· El Pasoan: El Paso, Texas — Albuquerque, New Mexico
· El Tovar: Los Angeles, California — Chicago, Illinois (via Belen)
· Fargo Fast Mail/Express: Belen, New Mexico — Amarillo, Texas — Kansas City, Missouri — Chicago, Illinois
· Fast Fifteen: Newton, Kansas — Galveston, Texas
· Fast Mail Express: San Francisco, California (via Los Angeles) — Chicago, Illinois
· Golden Gate
Guten Morgen allerseits!
Wie ist jeder? Es ist Octoberfest, Partei wollen wir!
Unbelievably warm for this time of year here in mid-contient USA as the temps have topped the 90 (F) mark and are expected to do so today and tomorrow. <>ugh> Petrol up at "Collusion Corner" was $1.96 (rounded). Some might say that these past couple of days have been topsy-turvey for the Saloon by the Tracks. Not so with me, for dialogue is healthy as long as it remains civil. When it crosses the line into the personal, aspersions included – then men draw lines in the sand. Hopefully that hasn’t occurred ‘round here. We need to keep our “nucleus” in tact and I count upon those of you who were instrumental in bringing ME back here – to refrain from fracturing us any further.
Reminder for one and all: Boris will conduct ID checks of all not familiar to these premises, to ensure compliance with the County’s drinking age. Twenty one is “it” UNLESS your particular location says otherwise. Honesty IS the best policy 'round here.
Definition: Adult is in the eye of the beholder – so to speak. We all know of people who are biologically adults, but surely do not conduct themselves in that manner. However, pretending is absolutely the wrong way to go in this cyber bar ‘n grill. Referring to the words of red P . . . . . . . Anyway you will be accepted for who you are, not what you want to be.
. . . Anyway you will be accepted for who you are, not what you want to be.
Wonderful Posts from Pete, Rob, ‘n DL in the UK. Really good to see you guys show up and help to resume what the “normal” activity ‘round this tavern is supposed to be.
Hey Rob – you provided us with that 3rd CP installment on “Theme Day!” which is supposed to be AT&SF!!! What IS it they are putting in the water in Ontario these days (daze) <grin> That “list” of yours is going to wind up being quite long UNLESS you get “cracking” – take a trip – go EAST young man, go EAST!
Nice advanced "gift" from James for our "Theme" in the form of Pix.
Pete – it was great talking with you yesterday! A looooooong day for me, but having had the chance to discuss things of mutual interest made all of the difference – thanx! Just let me know WHEN you think you can get away and we’ll head up to Montreal. I know enough about the area whereby we can check out Delson, take a train trip 'n enjoy a brew or three! My bag is always "at the ready"! We also need to get moving on our trip up to Chicago and perhaps a brief get together with Doug at Union Station.
DL in the UK – Enjoyed every word of your Post and very pleased to have you amongst us! I could write a book on the Renaissance cars and my experiences – most probably the pages on the Threads I’ve hosted would be a good start! <grin>
Pretty much concur with what you’ve shared with us about the cars. They are Euro and that’s where they belong. North American rail travel, for a host of reasons and realities, is far different and smaller isn’t always the way to go over here. These “Chunnel Chuggers” are a great example of what happens when government enters into the mix – purchased to get a “good deal,” and wound up with an assortment of issues – some still not settled.
I always enjoy the ambiance of Monteral's Central Station and have picked up ont he observations you've made about the staffing. Seems to me that VIA Rail does it right - no room for error - none. Keep in mind that in the U.S. and Canada, passenger rail travel is not at all the transportation mode of choice by the majority. Although I did get a kick out of your comment regarding how did some of these people ever make it to the station without all kinds of help! As to permitting people on the platforms while waiting for the train – it’s really been that way for as long back as I can recall – but I’m referring only to the urban station and terminal settings (Grand Central Terminal – Penn Station – Toronto’s Union Station, etc.). Even as a kid back in the ‘40s, one couldn’t get down to the “tracks” in either GCT or Penn Station before boarding time. However, my grandpa always found a way while the “gate man” looked the other way! <grin> Must have had something to do with a little boy holding grandpa’s hand while wearing the “cigar band” around one of his fingers. <smile>
Good morning gents! Ich muB eine bun-bun bitte, und Folgers (mountain grown y'know ... "the richest kind" ... (remember Mrs. Olsen?)) Just stopped in briefly. Nice to seee some ATSF stuff from fireman James, and CPR stuff from Rob yesterday. Here's a little something from me:
AT&SF 841, 1959-RSD-15 Diesel-Electric Road Swithcher
American Locomotive Company (whose name changed to its acronym, Alco, in 1956) was the only steam locomotive builder to succesfully to the production of a full line of diesel-electric and passenger freight units. Alco's diesel production began with boxcabs in 1924, and continued until 1969.
Alco built 87 RSD-15s in 1956-1960. ATSF purchased 50, each with the optional low front hood whose length led to their "Alligator" nickname. ATSF 841 was sold to ore-hauler Lake Superior & Ishpeming in 1975, where ( as LS&I 2402) it gained its current paint scheme.It was sold again in 1989 to Intel Corp.'s Fox River Valley subsidiary, and later relettered for Intel's Green Bay and Western as GB&W 2407. Those roads were acquired by Wisconsin Central in 1993, but this unit was never returned to service before its donation to IRM in 1996. AT&SF 841 is the only surviving Santa Fe unit of the three remaining RSD-15's. 2400 Horsepower. Weight: 382,400 pounds.
Have a great Oktoberfest celebration ...schnell!
This simple five question test will help determine how drunk you really are. Begin by answering each of the five questions below truthfully. Then determine your score based on question answer values provided. Lastly, compare your score to the results for a final answer.1. Think about your wife. In your mind, is she: (a) the most beautiful woman alive; (b) a beautiful woman; (c) attractive; (d) ugly as sin.2. Think about your job. In your mind, is it: (a) the best job on the planet; (b) a good job; (c) a decent job; (d) the most annoying job ever.3. Try walking. What happened? Did you: (a) find it impossible to stand up; (b) fall after standing up; (c) walk fifty feet before falling flat on your face; (d) walk one thousand feet without falling.4. How did you get to the bar? I got here in: (a) my brand new chauffer-driven limo; (b) a brand new car; (c) a used car; (d) a rented, rusted, and damaged 1950 japanese import.5. What do you think of your strength? I am: (a) invincible; (b) stronger than anyone in the bar; (c) as strong as the average man; (d) a weak and pathetic being.Question answer valuesFor every question answered with an A, add ten points.For every question answered with a B, add five points.For every question answered with a C, do not change the score.For every question answered with a D, subtract five points.For every question answered with an E, add one hundred points.ResultsFor scores ranging from fifty to 135, congratulations. You're over and above the normal drunk. Generally, at least they are able to select a valid option. An e option does not even exist on this test. You should probably check yourself into a hospital for alcohol poisoning.For scores ranging from thirty-five to fifty, you had ten too many beers. If you plan on driving home, make out a will first--that is, if you can even remember your own name. Lastly, don't even think about standing up.For scores ranging from fifteen to thirty-five, you have had one too many beers. Don't drive unless you want a higher insurance rate. Standing up will probably result in injury.For scores ranging from zero to fifteen, you may want to stop drinking now. You have probably had enough beers but don't drive unless you want a ticket. If you choose to ignore the tip to stop drinking, it is not a problem; you probably still have the ability to stand up.For scores ranging from negative twenty-five to zero, you must just be getting started! I bet you don't even have one beer in you. In terms of driving, you are probably just getting out of the car and are walking to the bar this very moment.
Thanks for the warm welcome back people. Now you have it in stock, pint of Mild for me, and if you can get some Holden’s Mild as Pete recommends I’ll get a round in.
Just picking up a few recent points – interesting to read the history of the CPR post war passenger services, we have a lot to be grateful for for that equipment purchase decision back in the mid 50s.
Chicago Union Station – yes, very impressive. I found the lower level and main Amtrak waiting areas rather grotty and certainly uninspiring, but go up some steps into the usually deserted main hall and take a seat there – an impressive place to while away the time. Also as suggested take a walk round the outside, down one side is a very good diner – I can’t recall them name but I think it claims to the first or last eatery on Route 66. Worth a call. I took breakfast there before catching The International to Toronto a few years back. Sad that this route has now gone.
Nice to see that post about Gulf Mobile and Ohio a while back. Reminds me of one of my favourite films – In the Heat of the Night – crime, mystery, suspense, good cop bad cop routine, and a backdrop of GM&O trains – what could be better.
Picking up on Pete’s comments. Glad to see you agree with my stance on the Voyager Unit. People fighting for seats at New Street is not a pretty sight. The UK govt wants to ease this overcrowding so has plans afoot (bad ones) – No chance of Virgin stumping up money for more cars, so the plan is to curtail the routes by deleting Scottish destinations from the Cross Country Network (you’ll have to change at Manchester and Newcastle) and deleting Sussex destinations by removing Gatwick and Brighton from these services’ networks. This will mean the end of the once named Sussex Scot (now only running Brighton – Manchester anyway) and Brighton has had an ‘inter regional’ service since at least prior to 1939 – which would cease under these plans. The idea is to free up more units for the core Birmingham area parts of the route.
The complex electronic reservation system is off as often as it is on – hacks me off as there is only one table seat in the quiet coach where the seats fully align with the window – which is where I make my reservation, only to find they have messed up the IT and turned it off.
Tell me Pete, how did you find the Pendolino by comparison to the Voyager? They seem equally cramped to me. Your trip notes to Newcastle were good, but were you not en route to Stirling? – is there a part 2? Did you take the opportunity to use the GNER dining car? GNER offer the best service but they have got into financial problems and there will be cut backs – I fear for the future of those dining cars. Did you consider doing the trip to Scotland by sleeper?
You mentioned Mike’s links to a GC trip in the 60s – I was going to post that link myself as I located it a few years back – some very good pics and very nostalgic. This w/e is Large Loco w/e down on the GC with 5 promised in steam - so if I have time I might try and fit it in. Also includes live mail drops as they have the trackside apparatus there.
Kimberley Brewery (now trading under name Hardy’s and Hanson’s) situation is bad. Independent Family owners decided to sell for several 100 million to another independent Green King – they have bought out others recently and promptly closed the brewery (eg Morland from Oxfordshire is a sorry tale, one of many – like back to the bad old days of Whitbread) and word is Kimberly’s Victorian brew house will be closed by end of the year, with the ales faked at Green King in Suffolk or dropped all together.
Tom – given your comments about the Canadian Passenger RR thread I’ll post this here:
Now on to some notes about VIA. But first of all one big disappointment – due to getting a cold whilst in Canada the time allotted to go to Delston got written off – I never made this museum which several of you had highly recommended and I’m disappointed at that – I guess another trip is required. Another plan to go down to New York on the Adirondack was also scrapped due to lack of time – that would have been good – too much to do, too little time!
I took a run to and from Quebec City – so my first comments will be about Renaissance Day cars. I’d be interested what others think.
As the journey starts at the station let me start my comments there – what on earth is the story about keeping passengers off the platforms in North American large termini? Everything excludes you from the actual mode of transit – you can’t see them, and you can’t get down for boarding until the appointed time. This is weird by UK / European standards – very few stations are designed in such a way that you can’t actually see the train! Then when it comes to boarding – well – its nice to see a system fully staffed but no wonder it needs subsidy! One person at the gate to check you are in the right queue for the right track, another person at the bottom of the stairs to help you find the right car, and another on board ticket check! This is surely overkill! Is the problem that some passengers are so unfamiliar with a train that if they actually saw one they would not have a clue where to get on and how to find their seat? If they really were that foolish how did they make it to the station under there own steam in the first place?
Ren Day Cars: Some may not like this but I think they are a good European Passenger car – and that is where they should be – In Europe!! running the services they were designed for overnight under the channel and through to regional British destinations – what a tragedy they are not doing that! I like the layout and I like the way they turn the train so the seats face forward – never bother with that here. So:
PROS
3 a side (2+1) seating is spacious - 1st class standard here in UK – this shows that to get acceptable seating size for North America it is necessary to have low loadings per car though – a false economy since it must increase train lengths and thus costs, but nice to ride in.
Nice quiet interior backed up by messages asking to passengers to be quiet and considerate – no hope of that in UK where endless listening to inane cell phone talk is the order of the day – even in the so called ‘Quiet Coach’).
Smooth ride and modern feel, comfortable seats.
Nice to see the British Standard safety Kite Mark in the corner of the window – apart from the size of the car the only clue I could see to once British ownership.
CONS
Niggling little fittings like toilet door locks that are broken and remain unfixed, blinds that don’t stay up when you raise them and fiddly blind runners that interrupt the centre of the picture window.
Not enough table seats that give a more spacious feel with a good wide window. I prefer sitting at a table facing a stranger than staring at the back of another seat. And given the friendly demeanour of the average north American it is nice to chat sometimes. However, I think the tradition of coach car seating in North America is this style so I guess that is what people are used to.
A trolley service of cold food is no substitute for a decent buffet car with a few hot snacks too.
Apart from the free meal (is it any good?) I could not see why anyone would pay for VIA 1st class as the interior layout seemed the same as comfort class – are there any other reasons?
En Route:
Trip to Quebec City very scenic – crossing the St Lawrence was good (better in the Park Car Dome though!) and crossing the Quebec Bridge good too (looks like the Forth Bridge in Scotland – any connection?). Quebec Palais station is very impressive (trains sealed off from humanity again!), and I was staying near Cap Rouge where you can walk along the river shore down underneath a very impressive trestle (the roads could do with upping their paint budgets for these bridges though, I must say).
Oh, and I should mention, after arriving at Dorval Airport I was waiting at the bus interchange by Dorval Station some 30 – 40 mins after getting off the plane. Whoever organised for a triple headed CN mixed freight of some considerable length to roll by just whilst I was waiting, thanks a lot – it was a great welcome to Canada and much appreciated.
DL - UK
CLASSIC DIESLS # 33 THE CPR PASSENGER TRAINS PT 3 : POSTWAR CHANGES
The daily routine , and service of the railways changed after the war in canada much like it had in the United States.The wartorn raveged rolling stock of the railways was well run out by the time 7 years of warservice had been completed.In Canada much like the US,the airline industry was starting to come into it's own,with goverment subsidies to build bigger anbd better airports. This coupled with more govt money for highways and the lifting of gas and rubber rationing, and the ability for people to buy cars started to put preassure on the railway industry.
The CPR, which provided yeoman service to the nation during the war years, was not willing to give up it's share of the passenegr market to the other forms and embarked on a heavy reinvestment in new streamlinned passenger equipment and a wholesale swap of steam engines for modern diesel power.In 1954 the CPR ordered 173 new stainless steel sided passenegr cars from the Budd company, and on april 24, 1955 they launched the New Canadian an all Budd dlx transcontinental passenger service.
CPR described The Canadian as an exclusive and dlx all stainless streamliner, featuring ; "Two Dome cars, and a variety of sleeping arrangements: roomettes,double bedrooms,berths and more..the last car of the train will feature a rounded eneded observation room, a beverage room with a dome level above it, and a first class sleeping space made up of a large drawing room and two bedrooms. "This comes from the timetable a passenger advertismnet material of the time.
CPR's vast expendature of $40 million dollars on this equipmnet was concidered a lavish expendature of money, on what many concidereed to be a dying mode of travel.This new train operated on a tighter scheduale than any of the CPR's previous passenger name trains.It guarranteed a 71 hour 10 minute run from Montreal to Vancouver, and 50 minutes less eastbound.A hopefull Norris Crump ( CPR's then president ) was excited and hopefull that this new state of the art equipmnet would solidify the CPR's position as the, passenger choice for cross country runs in the country, and that the investment would pay for it in the yeasr ahead. Norris Crump would later concider his whole hearted support of this service to be his biggest and costliest blunder of his carreer.
However , in the summer of 1955 the optimism of the time and this new equipment was reflected in the CPR's aggressive schedualling of it's transcontinental services.Thes featured five different scheduales west of Moose Jaw. Aside from The Canadian , they also included The Dominion , the CPR / SOO Mountaineer , and two unnamed transcontinentals in each direction . Despite the CPR's heavy investment in passenger equipment in the mud 50's their financial losses continued into the 1960's.All due to the continuing decline in passenger numbers.
By 1966, all of the transcontinentals except for The Canadian had been discontinued.Most local trains were regulated to mixed status of the influx of anohter Budd product the large fleet of RDC 1,2and 3's. The Dominion was reactivated for a while in 1967 in connection with Expo67 in Montreal, after that it and many other long and mid range passenger trains came to an end.In 1970 CPR began to publically state that they wished to discontinue transcontinental passenger service completely.The public sentiment was negative to this, but even the Candian Transportation Commission was admitting that both CN and CP were in deed bleeding red ink on the passenger side of their business.This occured at the same time when the US governmnet was peicing together Amtrak from all the failing donner roads in the US that wanted to be rid of passenger service.The Canadian governmnet would do the same thing several years later. In the meantime however the CPR continued to operate, The Canadian, The Montreal to Saint John Atlantic Limited and several other secondary services.These were all partially funded by government sudsidy. The CN was still running a heavier passenger scheduale as they were still a crown corporation at the time.
The CPR took the lead in ending the flow of red ink through the formation of the new crown corporation VIA Rail. This occurred in 1976 at first the VIA timetable just listed both the available CN and CP trains keeping the equipmnet and routes of both donating RR's.In 1978 VIA officailly became a full funded crown corporation and assumed all financial and physical control over the nations pssenger rail network. Both RR's donnated the bulk of their passenger equipment to this new company, happy to finnally be out from under the money loosing proposition of rail passenger service.
AS everyone knows VIA's Canadian still lives on and still uses the vintage Budd cars.Now routed over the more convienient but less scenic CN route.Fofty yeasr later passengers still can enjoy that Park car service. Not as bad an investment as Norris Crump had thought.
Good evening Leon,I think the light up cumberbund is a bit much, but hey it's better than Boris's get upI think a classic Carlsburg in honour of Oktoberfest. Tomorrow I've got some fine Kitchener Waterloo homemade saussages of many flavours comming in to augmnet te classic German fare from the Kitchen, in fact I just saw Boris run out towards the Zepplin sheds to help grapple the H&H express in with it's culinary cargo.
Well some good and some different today. Knida glad we are all now on the same page cooler heads shall prevail
Tom- I've got a couple things cooked up for ATSF day tomorrow so hopefully it sahll be another good tuesday effort by all. I'm looking forward to CM3's efforts as they are always close to silver throttle award territory Yup the jays had not to bad of a season. I think that had all the starting pitchers satyed healthy for more of the season,we had a good chanse at snagging the wildcard. Next year should be intresting. i'm in full hockey mode now however.
Doug-Grrrreat article on the CPR's Dominion and it's Selkirk calss monsters.They were the be all and end all in big CPR steam power.
DL-Good to see you back sir ? I think we are all looking forward to your recollections of your trip to my fair country. Nice to have another voice from oevr the pond to liven up the steam and passenger chat around the ole tavern by the tracks
Pete-Your wish is my command,the final pice of the CPR puzzle is up next.Perhaops your mate Alan may be able to drop by cyberly at some point,sounds like he would fit in quite well with our kooky crowd.
Lars-Wouldn't it be grand indeed if we all could make that trip on the Chaleur,I'll have to live through the participants descriptions and pictures. It will be on Heather and my's to ride list definatly however. She's never been east of Ottawa so i need to expand her horrizons anyway. it will help with her geneological searching anyway as a good portion of her forebarers came from NFLD.
James-Hopefully all the stuff is behind. some great ATSF snaps.An encouraging sign of things to come I hope.
Hi Tom and all.
It appears that I have missed RUTH in the German costume, but you look smart LEON. I don't think I am quite ready for BORIS in der lederhosen. I hate to think what his home brew is like. I will try some of the Kimberley Mild.
NICK Great set of photos of the Canadian and the Welsh Narrow gauge.. That 4-6-0T on the WHR has got me beat at the moment, the cut out in the tank seems a bit unusual. The pic of Tal-Y-Lyn is a great photo and it is to me, sad that a lot of the trains that were loco hauled in Ireland will or are now mulitple units.
ROB I will pass on to Alan the thanks for the pics and thanks for the info on the inspection vehicle. I'm glad you are going to do Part 3 on the CP.
DOUG Thanks for the pics of those very impressive CP steam locos. You can almost hear the fantastic sound that triple header must have made. And a railroad joke as well.
LARS I think the web was having a bad day yesterday, it took a lot longer to transfer my pics on to Our Place.
Montreal is another place I have promised myself a trip to, mainly to see the ex LNER A4 Dominion of Canada in a museum in part of the city,and a trip on The Chaleur in great company would be wonderful, as you say 'wishes' at the moment but perhaps one day it could happen it would be an unforgetable trip I'm sure.
CM3 A good point on the old trackbeds in winter, it can be an interesting part of our hobby, tracing old lines, an example in the UK between Banbury and Leamington Spa there is an embankment visible from the train, this does not appear in the railway maps as it was part of the groundwork of a line that was never built in the mid 1800s. It is amazing that it has survived considering there are lines that closed in the 1960s where there is hardly any trace left.
I dont believe that I have seen a copy of the Railroad History on sale, is it just availiable in model shops? I had a look on the web but could not find it.
DL-UK good to see you back. I hope you had a great trip.
Many thanks for the info on the Great Central North and an update on the GC a Loughbourough. it is good news that the GC is making a profit, as I believe I said before at Our Place, that if the main line steam was banned from BR tracks the joined up parts of the GC would be about the only place in the UK where steam locos could run at a fast speed. About the time I posted about the GC MIKE posted some links to some great pics of the Nottingham to Rugby part of the line in its last year, also some archive shots of the GC being built.
It is sad news that Kimberley Ales is under threat, I hear from my friends over there it is again a bad time for the independant brewers, with the Youngs Wandsworth Brewery closing and someone told me that Usher's of Trowbridge was also under threat. It is like the bad old days of the 70s/80s again. If you are ever at Wolverhampton the Great Western pub not far from the station serves a great pint of Holden,s Mild.
You are so right about the Voyagers, I well remember the days of Peaks on long trains on the Cross-Countries, then the HSTs. When they first came out I could not believe only 4 or if you are lucky 5cars. What it must be like on a Summer Saturday at Birmingham New street with people, heading on holiday with their baggage to the West Country, trying to board these trains I can't imagine. We travelled on a Voyager with a reservation for a coach that did not exist, needless to say none of the seat reservation signs above the seats were working.
It must have been an unforgetable sight to have been actually there to see the last landings of the three Concordes.
TOM Glad you liked the German tank loco in Alan,s pics Sorry the post is late but I managed to delete an earlier version
I think I like the sound of the German word Freibier.
I see they had an Oktoberfest here in Jeff City Saturday, I have only just found out about it, apparently they had a Weiner Dog race and tapped a keg of German bier from the twin town in Germany.
As I shall be away for most of the Oktoberfest festivities I will post this pic of another fine German loco
PETE.
, .
G-day captain Tom.
I just want to get one thing straight. I want you guys to know everything about me so that this never happens again. Ask any question that you wish. I will give you a sincere and honest answer. I just feel bad about the whole thing. But as Tom has put it, that's water over the Dam or under the bridge, how ever you want to put it. I will stick to the Grill area, and stay there untill I am old enough to come the Bar area. I still feel a bit like a .
FtwNSengineer-And honesty it will be. You can believe what ever you want. For it is a free country. You don't have to believe a word I say, All I want is the contraversy to be behind us. As long as thats behind us I will hopefully have a better time here.
Now I know that some of you guys are not to happy with me but hopefully over time you will find that I am true to my word and I will stay that way as long as I am here.
Now..Let the questions role in.
Just to start off for tomorrow here's a Atchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe photo.
GP30 leading the train: This is quite a lash up of locomotives. Gp30 leading, GP35, 2 more GP30s and another GP35 make this train up. Grain trains are suppose to be the hardest trains to keep control but since I have never taken one out only an engineer would beable to tell me. Maybe FtwNSengineer can tell us.
If I am not mistaken, I believe the AT&SF had the largest locomotive consists here in North America.
Last one. I think, Just by the look of it that this train is roaring right along with it's Intermodal. With an SD40 leading and 3 C boats I think he has enough power.
I am sorry that I did not quote the names who named me before on this post But I will in my next post. Just making a beginning post.
Happy railroading.
James
siberianmo wrote: Red P - last time we saw you here, you made a "declaration" but didn't follow up. Hmmmmm, have to hold you to the same standards you hold others to. Reminder: Tomorrow is "Theme for the Day! - AT&SF Railway. Tom And what is that?
Red P - last time we saw you here, you made a "declaration" but didn't follow up. Hmmmmm, have to hold you to the same standards you hold others to.
Reminder: Tomorrow is "Theme for the Day! - AT&SF Railway.
Tom
And what is that?
Guten Tag!
Leon, das Freibier - on Da Boss!
Been a rather long and somewhat frustrating day - Emails, phone calls and "stuff" here at the bar. Too much for what is supposed to be a "fun" place.
We had a fine start to the AM from Doug with his Pix (which most probably would have been far better served on Sunday Photo Posting Day!), followed by Lars 'n CM3 then DL in the UK later on. There hasn't been much to sink our collective teeth into afterwards. Pity, for therer's lots of info out there just waiting to be unleashed . . .
Really nothing of substance to add tonite - so, I'm outta here - Monday nite football: Green Bay 'n Philadelphia. Should be a gudun . . .
Ok, Hey did you all hear that ...........Tom is buying the next round
P
Special for all concerned in this continuing saga . . . .
Let's keep it off the Thread - outta the bar - and into Email.
Seems like there are some very legitimate questions from a most respected source. So, rather than bog down this Thread - move it elsewhere.
James, The only thing I ask is honesty.
You will excuse me if I dont belive your story. Anyway you will be accepted for who you are, not what you want to be.
Special for CMSTPP James and all who are following this soap opera of ours . . . .
You ARE welcome to join us - what has been said and done is like yesterday's toast - gone-ZO!
As far as ftwNSengineer red P is concerned - that's ADULT humor, my young friend - get used to it!
ftwNSengineer wrote: Hello everyone, Let me have a bud please, to start things off with. Im sorry James I didnt catch what railroad you work for. You said you just turned 18. In this country you have to be 18 to hire out on a railroad! Just how did you make fireman so fast? And I wont even address the fact that they got rid of fireman long before I hired out, and Ive been doing it for over 10 years now. And there never was such a thing as a student fireman! NOW KID, GET OUT OF HERE BEFORE I HAVE TOM THROW YOU OUT! P
Hello everyone,
Let me have a bud please, to start things off with.
Im sorry James I didnt catch what railroad you work for. You said you just turned 18. In this country you have to be 18 to hire out on a railroad!
Just how did you make fireman so fast? And I wont even address the fact that they got rid of fireman long before I hired out, and Ive been doing it for over 10 years now.
And there never was such a thing as a student fireman!
NOW KID, GET OUT OF HERE BEFORE I HAVE TOM THROW YOU OUT!
We call it studenting. Just riding along and showing me how things work. I was not hired though,not untill I had passed the GCOR test. I was helping out around such as learning on the job just like my friend did down in St Paul. He is 19 and is already a Fireman and Hostler for CP. His name is Will lohrbach. I inquired on rices point yard and told them that when I am old enough that I would probably want to work here for my first couple of years. So they said if you wanted to learn before you take your test that I would need to help around a little. Nothing big. cleaning offices, going out with yard master learning the trades of the area. I was not aloud to do any such thing as actual firemaning, just taking in the talking part of how to do this and that and watching how things were done, which they called studenting. learning pretty much. But After I had pasted my Test a couple of days ago they said that I could do hands on things such as actually going out and coupling and uncoupling of cars. Of course the first couple of times there will be a couple of fireman watching at what I will be doing. I relize that you have to be 18 so thats why they didn't let me do much.
But I made through to rices point on the North shore scenic railroad in duluth. They have a direct route to rices point and we wye our stuff all the time, so we knew the yard master very well. I can actually do some hands on things at the NSSR and have learned the trades of the railroad. This is primarily where I learned coupling cars, cutting in air, and some of the hand signals that are used.
I'm truley sorry for anything that I have done and did. I didn't want to cause any controversy. I just want to have classical train talk. I wasn't trying anything either. I am not your usual teen either. I have always loved this talk. I talk all the time with my friends, but I wanted to make new friends. Tom, lars and ftwNSengineer.. I didn't mean anything and I am sorry for that. I just don't know where else to talk. and the e-mails. I was just upset that things turned out the way they did. I just wanted to talk.
And Tom.. I saw that you had quoted that sentence on, So that we are on solid ground, I am, but It seems that ftwNSengineer is really upset with me. I would like to know if I would beable to come back if it is okay with you and Lars and everybody elses concent.
Guten Tag allerseits!
OKTOBERFEST at the bar and Ruth is looking - well, Germanic!
Just wanted to report that I've finally been able to view those Pix from Nick (yesterday) 'n Doug (Today) and they came through just fine! Don't know how some of you guys wind up with such clarity p mine NEVER look as good. maybe Doug is correct - special lens! <yeah, right!>
Two fine Posts to kick off our Monday from Doug 'n CM3 . . . wya to go! Received your Email, CM3, with a response "back atcha!"
An early visit from Lars with the "island report" as only he can provide! Good to see ya and appreciate your participation and support! Without your continuing and able support, along with frequency of Posts, I surely doubt that my efforts alone would have kept this place "up on the Forum" for as long as it has been - and that includes Saturdays 'n Sundays - through the good times and not so good. You've ALWAYS come through - never bailed out on us - that speaks volumes as far as I'm concerned. I just wish you'd give me a "heads up" BEFORE you "drop" those bombs! <grin>
Extremely pleased to see the reutrn of DL from the UK to our humble tavern! Your visit couldn't have come at a better time and I assure you, we have EVERY brand of brew available with the exception of the micro-variety. Just too difficult to arrange transportation! <grin> Once you're settled - there's quite a bit of material to browse through - feel free to jump in wherever and whenever you feel comfortable!
Revelstoke Park car is a "fixurre" on the "Ocean" route and has been for years. I've taken so many Pix of it that I think I know each 'n every rivet! Now that the Budd streamliners have been removed in favor of those Renaissance (Chunnel Chugger) cars, the only appeance of the "good" stuff is duringtourist season (beginning of May thru end of Oct) when they put on a Park car. This is what that once proud route of the "Ocean" has been reduced to - over 100 years of scheduled rail transportation for those living, working and playing in the Maritimes, reduced to a "tourist" train. <barf>
As you've undouibtedly gathered, this is where I "hang my hat," as I rarely appear over on my former Thread - Canadian Passenger RRs . . . I know we have far more interaction here and the price for the beer is "right"!
Hope you don't mind Boris checking your ID before letting you sit at the bar - that's a little something we all have to get used to these days (daze)! <grin>
Sports This is going to be quite a month with so much oging on. I didn't view the Colts-Jets game, but did read about it. Looks like the NJ Greens let 'em off the hook, eh j Didja know that I attended the first game of the New York Titans of the AFL way back in 1960 at the old Polo Grounds Yup - they beat the Buffalo Bills before a crowd that one could count on two hands . . .
That was a league with all kinds of innovativeness, one not afraid to venture either side of the "line" that ultimately reshaped the entire NFL. Yes - from the Titans to the Jets - through Joe Namath - a Super Bowl victory - merger of the leagues - to New Jersey, lots of history in such a short time. Life goes on, eh Sorta like it hsould 'round here!
So, time to get about the day! Ruth, ask them, Was möchten Sie trinken? Drinks on me!
Hello drinkers and diners, I apologise for the length of time since my last posting but I’m sure you will accept the apologies given the time has been spent travelling around in Canada, including my trip on The Ocean. More of that later. I was able to listen in at the door from time to time, but no time to participate. Thanks for the greetings from many of you.
Anyway, Landlord, hello again, and can I take an Orange Juice whilst I ask if it is possible for you to source a supply of Kimberly Mild Ale (the brewery has recently come under threat, though it is not closed yet), which I’d be keen to enjoy on future visits.
I know the conversation has moved on, but I just wanted to comment on matters raised a little earlier (around pages 396 – 400ish). I was asked about these points and I feel it would discourteous not to respond.
Pete – you asked about the GC set up at Ruddington. Well, I was last there about 1 year ago and things are pretty good. They have a sizeable set up at Ruddington itself with a decent maintenance shed, although much storage is still outdoors, and rather worryingly this includes the only space for some very rare wooden bodied ex GC passenger cars (one of the problems they have had there is vandalism as it is not far from a residential area).
They have a basic platform and most weekends in summer do short rides on the site. However – and this is the good bit – they have taken ownership of the line that runs south all the way to Loughborough which they restored to heavy freight carrying capacity – this allowed the Gypsum mine operation adjacent to the line to revert to carrying freight by rail over the preserved line and on to the UK network (I think this works out at about 1 train per day). The GC gets money for this from the Gypsum company. On the weekend when the freight is not running they can run passenger operation towards Loughborough which stops short of the national rail connection (no station on the preserved bit here, they just run out and back). This terminates at the area overlooking the yard of the Brush Locomotive works giving good views in to the yard as you are looking down from a higher level. Most services they run on this stretch are diesel. I’m not sure if they have adequate facilities on the GC northern section for much steam as yet.
Some info here:
www.nthc.co.uk/gcrn/news/
Down on the ‘main’ preserved GC I read they had had some funding difficulties in recent years. I did not know this but essentially the operation was bankrolled by a very generous donor, and had been operating at a loss for some time. This gentleman died not so long ago and of course the funding stopped (although he set up a legacy bequest which still supports certain things). Various parties (inc the local govt who have a financial stake) were worried about the future prospects and I believe this resulted in some sort of a board room coup (I don’t think it was malicious but others may feel differently). Anyway – the objective was to widen funding sources and ensure financial stability. I heard they have moved into profit recently and of course are still organising superb events and regular running (inc a major event this weekend advertised on the GC website).
The two operations now have renewed vigour in the attempt to gain funding to rebuild the over bridge at Loughborough which separates the northern and southern sections, the restoration of which would provide a very long running line indeed.
James – you posted a pic of what I’m pretty sure is a Virgin Voyager (not a Pendolino as Nick indicated). The Pendolino is the tilting 25KV overhead electric set which runs on the West Coast main line to / from London and Glasgow and intermediate points (ex LMS route Pete described in earlier posts) – James’ pic is of the diesel Voyager which comes in 2 variants, the non tilting ‘Voyager’ and the tilting ‘Super Voyager’. They run on what is called the Cross Country network – which is high speed inter city routes not covering London – basically north east and north west England to South West England with occasional forays into Scotland. They are 4 or 5 car units which run in fixed formation.
Sadly I’m very critical of these units. They replaced 1960s ‘head end power’ formations and the incomparable Inter City 125 units on these routes, swapping 6 to 8 coach rakes (consists) with these 4 or 5 car units which only very rarely are paired up to form 8 cars. At busy times standing is very common. Even worse, they tried to deal with the shorter trains by packing the seats in close together so they are really not very comfortable (I would go so far as to suggest that any North American used to a good bit of space would find internal space standards unacceptable). Many seats do not align with windows so you can end up with a reserved seat with no view, and at certain times of the day they are just totally overcrowded with passengers and luggage since they have very little luggage stowage room. The under floor power units also don’t make for the ride comfort of the HEP layout. First class is much better, but only half a car is 1st class and 1st fares are disproportionately high. These units serve what is the UK’s longest passenger train from Penzance to Aberdeen. Part of the fault for all this lies with the Virgin Company’s obsession with making train travel like airline travel – with the space standards that go with it.
It is a shame because the same design unit was also bought by Midland Mainline train operator – still has the non HEP draw backs but they opted for a much better interior design which far surpasses the Virgin effort.
By the way, these Voyager units serve the Bournemouth – Manchester Route including the direct descendant of the old Somerset and Dorset Pines Express mentioned earlier (although not on S&D metals of course). No chance of Virgin Trains using the name though as they have deleted named trains from their routes, in another attempt to pretend they have nothing to do with the past (when rail travel had a sense of style).
Tom – thanks for those pics of The Ocean – my arrival in Halifax was on a cloudy day so my own picture of Ravelstoke Park is not as good as that one (it was the Park Car on my journey and where we spent most of our waking hours). Neither was my view crossing the St Lawrence as good.
I also very much enjoy reading the transcripts of the old advertising material you have posted – very nice.
Pete – you mentioned watching the final Concorde touch downs. Brought back a memory – when that was announced I knew I had to see that. They would not let anyone view it from the airport without advance invitation so I took a train to a nearby over ground station and walked to the airport perimeter fence where a great many people had gathered – it was a fantastic sight to see them come in, although a very sad day. I doubt the end of any other aircraft will be marked by so many spectators come to pay their respects.
Regards for now. Back in due course for a run down of my impressions of VIA.
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please, round for the house, and $ for the jukebox.
Lovely day here in the coalfields – about 40 degrees this a.m. and no fog for a change.
Lots of reading this a.m. Following is in no rank order:
Our ‘steamed proprietor’s going on a road trip! Well-deserved, I’m sure and you’ll be able to see some interesting parts of the country. Movie choices are interesting. I saw “For Love of the Game” not too long ago, and have never seen Fierce Creatures. I’ll take a large popcorn, please. “Brighto, mister?” I can hear old Curly now.
Lars – Thanks for Chaleur information. Yes, the G’intt had a bye week, but they get right back into it now.
Now we are having Oktoberfest – this means that space under the pool tables will be at a premium. I heard rumors about Boris’s microbrew, any truth to the story that you have to tap the kegs with an oxygen lance?
Barndad provided lots of material. Ghost RR items are always good. B4 I forget all of Sulzer’s old books, Ghost RR’s of Kentucky, Tennessee, and Indiana have all bee reprinted. This part of WV is honeycombed with old trackage and roadbed. The best time to see it, however, is in the winter when the leaves are off the trees. The Mission Tower story is one I remember reading in the old magazine awhile back. Then we have a fine collection of MILW artifacts as well as some CPR material. BTW, what color paint is in the buckets? I see a PowerPainter in your future.
Nick – Thanks for pictures.
Pete sent an enjoyable/informative travelogue and more pictures.
Mike – thanks for more CV material, especially the shots of the steamers and New York terminals. Most people, when they recall the ’38 storm think of the picture of the USCG vessel that got tossed on top the New Haven tracks at New London, so it was refreshing to see something else. CV8081 surely did bounce around. I remember photographing her in St. Albans more than a few times.
Received my new issue of Railroad History on Friday. We were discussing Jack Delano awhile back and RRH has a feature article about him in this issue with some well- reproduced examples of his color photography. Check it out if you get a chance.
IIRC, Santa Fe runs tomorrow. I have a prepared a piece which I hope the crowd will find interesting.
Lars' post arrived while I was working on this one. Indeed, let the games begin. Our 'steamed proprietor and I are still in shock that the Cards survived. BTW, I can't see what all the fuss is abt. Pedro being absent. IMHO, the Mets have been without him for essentially the last two months of the season, so it's not like it's anything new. Also, was it me, or did the Jets coach sort of get "greedy" yesterday againt the !@#$ Colts?
Until the next time!
Lars
Guten Morgen!
Okay – ‘nuf of my German for this day! Hope everyone is ready to begin the new work week by beginning the day with us. Freshly ground ‘n brewed coffee in the urns; pastries in the Mentor Village Bakery case and of course our <liht> ‘n <traditional> breakfasts listed on the Menu Board!
On to the baseball playoffs! Cardinals vs Padres - let the "new season" begin! My "lambs" actually looked like Rams yesterday as they put the offense in gear to pull one out against the Lions from Detroit. A total of 75 points in that game - hardly a defensive contest!
Yeah, Rob - the Jays wound up in 2nd spot and made the most of what I guess was a disappointing season for the Toronto fans. Kind of like "kissing your sister" when one takes a series in Yankee Stadium AFTER the Yanks had clinched a week or so ago. I'd say the game meant a lot more to the Jays than to the Yanks.
And, it would be terrific it we could only muster up a few guys for the Gasep trip. That's the ideal rendezvous for the bar crowd - get 'em aboard a real train in an environment where "classic trains" rule the day!
Wonderful Pix from Doug, Pete ‘n Nick! Enjoyed the VIA Rail spread from Lars – turned out to be more of a successful day than I had thought.
Some Pix took “forever” to load – never did get all of page 403 - but enjoyable nonetheless. I’ll defer to others for comments . . .
Can’t wait to see Ruth in her Oktoberfest finery and we know that Boris will be absolutely “stunning” in his liederhosen, complete with Alpine hat and suspenders. Leon the Night Man will more than likely wear his orange and brown tux, with multi-colored cummerbund. Ah, creatures of fashion one and all!
Here's the way it works at "Our" Place - our drinking age is whatever YOUR drinking age is where you reside. Since we don't know what state you are in (or do we???), I'm holding it to 21. Now that doesn't mean you aren't welcome - for you are. We enjoy your contributions (great layout Pix!) and you seem to be quite a sincere young fellow. Just want to make sure we are all on solid ground 'round here. from my Post at 11:05 AM, Sunday on previous page
Here's the way it works at "Our" Place - our drinking age is whatever YOUR drinking age is where you reside. Since we don't know what state you are in (or do we???), I'm holding it to 21. Now that doesn't mean you aren't welcome - for you are. We enjoy your contributions (great layout Pix!) and you seem to be quite a sincere young fellow. Just want to make sure we are all on solid ground 'round here.
Now that doesn't mean you aren't welcome - for you are. We enjoy your contributions (great layout Pix!) and you seem to be quite a sincere young fellow. Just want to make sure we are all on solid ground 'round here.
Let's cool off, Gents!
Later . . .
Good morning Tom and friends! I'll have a light breakfast please. This is Day 1 of 3 in which I will be working jobs 1 & 2. Bummer for me, and I'll be missing the Oktoberfest activities. Wish it could be helped. More great pix from Alan yesterday courtesy of Pete, and I'm with those who feel your mystery car is some sort of maintenance-of-way doodad. We've got some similar looking stuff at the IRM that I still haven't figured out. As for this business with fireman James, he seems like a real nice guy, and I've got more important worries these days than to judge this young man or anyone else here, so I won't. Great to see Nick pop in with some more RR pix, which look way too clean to me to be prototype. Must be a special lense on the camera.
In the spirit of contributing, and keeping the CPR discussion alive for another day, here's a little something to read besides the sports page:
Tractive effort 178,400 pounds. A brace of boostered-equipped 2-10-4s, Class T-1a, locks knuckles with the Dominion at Revelstoke, British Columbia, for the long climb over the Selkirks. The 5903 will cut off at Glacier, leaving Number 5901 to ease her long string of maroon varnish over the remainder of the 262-mile run into Calgary, Alberta. Photo by Eric A. Grubb
Built to battle the Selkirks, multi-pressured 8000 did not live up to expectations; went the way of the water-tube boilered engines. Here she is pulling out of Calgary for Field, in the Fall of 1931.
Carrying green for First Number 3, CPR’s 5900 shows a clear stack on the downgrade into Field.
Mixmaster of snowdrifts, a rotary works eastward out of Revelstoke
Twenty-six sanded drivers bite into the big hill with a quarter-mile of plush passenger cars
Big hill …big trains, big engines. CPR behemoths
A large two engined train was crossing America. After they had gone some distance one of the engines broke down. "No problem," the engineer thought, and carried on at half power. Farther on down the line, the other engine broke down, and the train came to a standstill. The engineer decided he should inform the passengers about why the train had stopped, and made the following announcement: "Ladies and gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that both engines have failed, and we will be stuck here for some time. The good news is that you decided to take the train and not fly."
Good evening folks,just stopping by to check out the days photo's and to make sure that we have the epic proportions of suasage and trimmings for the second anual Our Place Oktoberfest,also stopped by to get the lederhosen adjusted to fit.
Tom-Loved the movie choices of the day. Fierce creatures always brings smiles followed by spasm's of laughter. I haven't seen the Costner flick but it sounds like an interesting one. speaking of which, it looks like your redbirds just limped inot the post season. I guess my teams claim to fame was the unseating of Boston for second in the AL east, that and nabbing 2 of three to end the season in Yankee stadium Our highest placing since winning the second world series in 1993 !
I actually wish I could scrape togehter four days off and meet you in Montreal, unfortunatly it's an impossibility this time of year. Best I can do is to keep the ole homefires buring around here while all you retird folks pick up some well deserved R"n"R.
Doug-Wonderfull photo spread from you today sir . I'll back up Tom in saying how wonderfull the tower shots were, and aggreeing at the stories that they could tell if they could talk would be just as amazing.quite an impressive array of MILW power and cars at te IRM as well Oh and I think I will go ahead with part three then since both you and Pete are still looking forward to it.You are right I suppose we can't get too much of a good thing.
Pete-Let Alan know another great spat of shots.He could win prizes with his photography ! That odd crittrer hiding behind the steam locomotive looks lke an inspection vehicle of some type. Bigger likely than the fairmont speaders of NA, then again size can be decieving.
Nick-Good gravy man wonderfull shots today er tomorrow I suppose in your time zone.The two pieces of the Canadian at Sudbury is a wonderfull shot, for some reason I've always been partial to the blueline cars on VIA,I'm likely one of the few that liked that paint scheme. not as nice as the restored Budds, but a close second in my books.Nice montage of railways and equipment from closer to ho,me for you as well. Hopefully Copperkettle will be able to hold his own in teh kitchens with H&H for the Oktoberfest,you know what they are like
James-For my I'm not too happy 'bout the deception, however you do seem to be sincere and I do find your knowledge above the level of most your age.In Ontario you would be a year from being able to leagally step foot in an establishment like this one,you could vote or fight in our armed forces as well,so who am I to say you can't be here. I'll defer to Tom's wisdom in this, and hopefully they won't be any hard feelings from either side of the fence.
James-you are cool with me mate-in this country you are considered at adult at 18 and can enlist to fight and die for Queen and country at 16 -hope you had a fine time for your 18th birthday party -Congrats on your firemans badge-you are out there doing it ,not just sitting around talking about it.
Thanks for sharing stuff you know about with us-The whole point of the exercise as far as I understood things........
Right,rant over,lets have some sunday pix and all play nicely together.......................
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Right,one for the home crowd to start with-here we have the eastbound `Canadian` at Sudbury-Toronto portion in the main platform with G.M power,Montreal portion in the bay with an Alco--loads of modelling detail on those freight cars..........
right-a complete change of pace,here we have a selection from the southern half of the Welsh Highland Railway in North Wales-a 2ft gauge line which originally ran around the west side of Snowden and is gradually being restored.
These are all ex-Royal Navy mine depot cars from Trecwn,near me and are mostly fitted with sliding roofs to allow munitions to be loaded straight in--they look quite at home surrounded by gorse and with the bulk of the hills behind them..........
heres one from the north end of the line ( a different company-will explain tomorrow)-1st shot a Funkey diesel at Dinas junction,2nd shot same engine at Waunfawr running round with the brooding bulk of Yr Wyddfa (Snowden) behind
here we have moved across the bay to the Festiniog Rly-the first shot is of the new double Fairlie loco marshalling coaches at Portmadoc harbour station,the second is of the assembled train departing Tan-Y-Bwlch station some time later
here we have a real cross section:-top left we have a Festiniog Rly 0-4-0 tender/tank dating from the mid 1860`s at the Teifi Valley rly gala a few years ago,to the right of that we have the Vale of Rheidol`s `Owain Glendower`,resplendant in G.W.R green at Aberystwyth
Bottom left we have what looks like an ex W.D hunslet 4-6-0t (PETE help me here) on static display in the W.H.R yard at Portmadoc and either `The Earl` or `The Countess` (both are visible) at Llanfair Caereinion on the Welshpool & Llanfair lt rly
A selection from the Tal-Y-Llyn now:- a rusty diesel,a former Glyn Valley Tramway coach,thegrand old lady herself-(Tal-Y-Lyn -built by Fletcher-Jennings in about 1863 and still running sweet) and `Dolgoch`-also Fletcher-Jennings but 2 years later)-if they look familiar it`s because they are Skarloey & Rheneas from the Thomas stories...........
the pic of Tal-Y-Lyn is my all time favourite
Some more from the Tal-Y-Lyn
This is more for fun than anything else-top left,new loco #7`Tom Rolt + hippie ,top right ,back view of #1,Tal-Y-Lyn bottom left even more scary shot of Tom Rolt & self-bottom right,ex Corris railway Kerr-Stuart `tattoo` class #4 `Edward Thomas`
Back to the Vale of Rheidol-this is Prince Of Wales at Aberystwyth
this is the prince running round the morning train
a selection of the increasingly rare G.M units in Ireland-these are working services between Rosslare Europort & Dublin(long trains )& Waterford (short trains)
`Scuse me if I`m a bit full of it tonight but we played a show on fri to raise funds for the oncology dept of the local hospital and managed to scoop up about $4000 so am feeling a bit smug--mind you ,on sat we drove a round trip of 70 miles to play for about 12 people and a dog so I guess there`s a moral there somewhere................
be lucky guys,have a good week,love nick
I just read the e-mails I got..and.. well I felt completely unwelcome.
I'm sorry I even came here. I thought I could fit right in but it seems that I have done some bad things here. I didn't mean to do so.
I'm going to take a small leave let you guys discuss it. I just thought I could have some fun talking.
Hello Tom and all.
Tom, I relize that I made a mistake not telling you my age. Truly sorry.. But you will find that I am not like most teens. I like this type of enviroment. If you have ever looked at the Teen railfan posts, you will think they're a bunch of idiots, (even though they are teens) They fight, hassle each other around, and fight some more. There is no such thing as a civil conversation on the site.. Ever since I found this I've been going nuts waiting for this time to come so that I could step aboard as an adult. I have waited the whole summer for this and I have finally made it. Like I said I am a civilized person here, and I will stayed civilized from top to bottom.
But I am sorry I almost had the liquor license taken away from the bar....Thats where I should have told you my age. In which I will stay away from. The grill is my place... I believe it is.
Barndad, Pete and Tom, where wondering about my Fireman position. Well I work for BNSF in Rice's point yard in Duluth. Used to be a student.. well that changed. So far "things" are being sorted out. Still waiting upon what I will be doing over the next month. I am also a Volunteer at the lake superior museum of transportation. Soon to be a fireman down there also. Just need to pass there smaller version of the G-cor test.
Hopefully you understand everything.
OKTOBERFEST at ”Our” Place begins tomorrow, October 2nd at Noon!
We will feature GERMAN brew all month!
GERMAN sausages will be added to the menu for the month, with all the trimmings!
On Saturday’s in October The Mentor Village Teutonic Society will sponsor Oompah Music live at the “Our” Place picnic grounds Pavillion and Dance Emporium! Performers include the Sauerkraut Band, Electric Lederhosen and Burst the Wurst Trio
Lederhosen and Alpine hats will be worn by "Our Place"! staff throughout the month!
Full scale LGB trains will be running on the main lines for free round trips to Can-Am Gorge on weekends – 10 AM to 4 PM. First northbound departs the ”Our” Place platform at 10 AM sharp, undt ve mean, sharp!
PLAN TO SHARE THIS FALL CELEBRATION WITH US!
Proprietor, "Our" Place
An adult eating 'n drinking establishment!
The puter really is slow this aftternoon. but if there is something left in the pastry case I'll take it.
MIKE Great CV history and links, also the links for James on the Milwaukee Road. Thanks..
JAMES Thanks for the pics of the layout and if you are able, I too would be interested in hearing more about the fireman promotion.
ROB Thanks for the kind words much appriciated., also very much appriciated is that is that although you (and Doug) are very busy you still manage to call in at,as you say, the best Tavern by the Tracks. and post some great posts. I also would like to see part 3 of your Canadian passenger trains .
DOUG I will let you know when I am coming to Chicago. Great pics and notes on LAs Mission Tower.It seems they were taken at an interesting time when the disels were taking over from the steam traction. I loved the note on one of the pics of locos "Mumbling guttural diesel talk".
Also great pics of Milwaukee locos at the IRM, I bet one day 37A will look as great as 760 does, Those two pics show how much hardwork the people at the museum do to restore and to get those old locos and rolling stock back to their former glory. A 5X to them all..
Many years ago we did have a cat like that,in the pic, if the door was not closed properly it would come in and pounce on my HO set causing meyhem. thing.
LARS Thanks for the maps and photos on the Chaleur and the Ocean I can see why Tom is going, such wonderful scenery. The blue of the rivers is amazing.
TOM Three films I have not seen on at the Emporium this week, reading the plots they seem great stories, and will be great entertainment.
Having seen LARS post on the train to Gaspe, I feel like diverting to Montral instead of England, do you think there would be a chance to visit Delston Museum and see # 60010 there.It would be great if Lars could join you.
This weeks pics by Alan.
I, m afraid I don't know about this interesting little loco. It is on the NAUDERLAUSITZER MUSEUMSBAHN at FINSTERWALDE. GERMANY
Interresting vehicle on the left.
This fine railway building was at the end of the line and sadly is not in use.
A pic for all those who enjoyed Pacific # 18.201
Hope you enjoy these Pete.
DOUG Just caught your post with more Milwaukee pics at the IRM . Great to see the progress on the wheel drop and the House.
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