Hello Eric!
Great to have you back! Been a long time and let's hope this is the start of something GOOD!
I see you had a bit of trouble with that Pix - not unusual these days with this "new" format, et al. Here - check this out:
You are correct, there wasn't that much room up there in the control area of the RDC - but sufficient, as they say. It was one of the most memorable of all my rail ventures and I'll always be grateful to our former friend and customer, Dick Watkins, for arranging everything.
Nick - sorry, but I neglected to address you question. Yes - those are the bi-level cars of Bombardier (some actually came from "GO" - others were manufactured for TRE). Motive power in the form of F40PHs when I was there. The facility is really something to see and I was given the opportunity to tour it. Pix had been Posted way back - and perhaps I'll run some again.
Okay - the ballgame is ON - and I've gotta run . . . we're already in the "hole" two-zip in the 1st inning. <groan>
Tom
Although the bar is CLOSED on Sundays, we still have opportunities for dialogue. For those without keys to the place - slip your messges through the mail slots in either set of front doors.
Good seeing you Lars 'n Nick! Thought I'd be the lonesome contributor on this Sunday. Only have a few minutes, as time is dwindling down to the first pitch of tonights "big game" - Cardinals vs Padres at Busch Stadium here in St. Louis. If we win - we play the Mets on Wednesday for game #1 of the next round. If we don't - we plan in San Diego tomorrow for the finale of this series.
Lars, don't feel as if you are holding the world on your shoulders insofar as this joint is concerned. We've taken a new slant 'round here - can't be concerned with those who don't give a "Rat's Patoot" and can't control the comings 'n goings. Simple as that. If it becomes more labor than love - to blazes with it all. Ain't worth ulcers - sleeplessness or any of the other nonsense some of us make of what should be FUN!
Nick, those P:ix are outstanding! Simply put - great work with those montages! A five- to you Sir!
In montage #1 (upper left) a CN freight pulling automobile carriers - (upper right) A Toronto GO train headed by an F40PH pulling those Bombardier bi-levels - (lower left) perhaps best of all - VIA Rail and Amtrak! What a shot!! (lower right) Another favorite - looks like CNs Turbo train on one mainline, with a 2-car RDC consist on the other!
Montage #2 (upper left) 3-car RDC consist headed by an RDC-2 and two RDC-1s - not sure of the road - guess is CN. (upper right) A CP RDC-3. The rest are freights . . . .
Again, really enjoyed those shots!
Me a "Dead Head" Nah. But I do know a bit about music and the groups that engage in it. Can't dismiss the 'sounds,' in spite of what one may think of the personalities.
Catch ya in the 'morrow!
Well the day of rest rolls around again so lets have a rummage through the photo archives and see what I can find..
A couple of quick notes :- DOUG-you have no idea how welcome a volunteer you are-the prospect of standing adjacent to Boris whilst he has potentially lethal weapons in his paw has been costing me much needed beauty sleep..........Enjoyed the stramliner article-didn`t the writing style date it as much as the contents,nice one -Keep the old nose to the grindstone mate,it won`t last forever.........
20fingersAL-Howdy-I`m sure the good taxpayers of California appreciate your efforts -The Crown Royal awaits your return..!!!
TOM-Caught your overlapping post from friday-yet again you suprise me-I wouldn`t have you down as a Grateful Dead man,another pre-conception bites the dust . The `F`troop show outside my field but seems to have a hint of Sgt Bilko (of blessed memory) about it........
Nice rack of pix from the Dallas trip-those R.D.C`s look well in those colours and interesting to see the Bi-Level cars with the `Lone Star` blaze at the service depot -one pic showed what looked like a meet with an F40/59ph-would this have been hauling Bi-Levels ,a la the GO trains ??
Right-lets to the business of the day-PIX !!
Well since our `steamed proprieter has led off the batting with some urban transit shots,here are a couple of montage shots of operations around Toronto (for the most part)
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Right-according to my notes we have,clockwise from top:-C.N.#391 at Copetown Hill,Dundas with a pair of dash 9-44cwl`s providing the horses--1998, GO Train #156 inbound to Union passing Lambton Park,F59ph #528 in charge--20th june,1991, Westbound morning Turbo-Train passes GO train (GP40tc ? ) 11 miles east of Union at Scarborough Golf club rd--June 20th,1970 VIA #75 Toronto-Windsor with FPA-4a & F7b units next to AMTRAK F40ph with Amfleet cars promoting To/NY `Maple leaf` service--undated but 1981 seems likely
In this batch we have,again clockwise from top left:-B.C.Rail #1 nr Pavilion,Fraser River with 2x R.D.C1 + R.D.C3 (although I will defer to TOM on that....)--1986 C.P.Rail R.D.C2 ( same disclaimer )employee shuttle west of Union Stn--1968 Goderich & Exeter trip working at Goderich Harbour--undated,ex-Cartier Rly GP9`s 180,177,179 on the point Southern Ontario local crossing former T.H.B overpass at Cainsville with ex S.P. G.P.9e in charge--2001
And in the interests of balance,as we have had Toronto,a salvo from the rest of Canada-again specifics to follow.
O.K-Lest I be accused of column-hogging (?) ,I will break this into sections-back directly
G'day Cap'n Tom and fellow travelers waiting for the bar to open!
Since the bar is CLOSED on Sundays! - I'll slip this through the mail slot - however, I am the MANAGER and do have keys! <grin> Sounds like something is going on inside - must be Tex - Awk 'n Frostbite having "their way" with Boris. <groan>
Mets are "in" for the NL Championship series - Giants won in the NFL - all's "right" with my sports world (too early for the other sports for me . . . ). Surely hope the Cards pull it out tonight thereby setting the St. Louis - New York 'show down.' Donchatjustloveit
Nice shots from your Dallas trip, Cap'n Tom, and I can just imagine how much fun that must have been. Too bad about the guy who hosted it all - Dick Watkins. Just pretty much disappeared 'round here, huh Well, weve seen more of that than we need - seems to be the way some guys prefer it. They do the "one way" posting bit - then take off for other things, leaving all kinds of responses lost forever in the Ether of Cyber Space. Rude is a word that comes to mind - something that we simply have to put up with when dealing with all sorts, huh
I'm taking a break from my domestic chores - TV respite as well - and will be center stage for the baseball game in a couple of hours. Been a labor for me this weekend and more to come. We had planned on a break for a trp upstate, not that's a bit in doubt. Things have become a bit more cumbersome with our hospice care and we're just not sure we can get away. We'll see.
Heard from Rob by email - seems he's having trouble logging in on the forums. For whatever the reason, he can't do it. So that accounts for his absence lately - really missed. Hate to "dump" all of this on you, Cap'n Tom - for I know you were under the impression that WE would hold up our end of the bargain in getting this bar back up on the page. Sorry we've let you down and I just wish it would turn about - not very confident. Also heard from EricX2000 Eric and he's close to coming back - getting over his ailment. Will be a plus when he's around - but if I recall, he's more of a late night, early AM contributor - if that's so - well, interaction will be difficult. Anyway, we surely need the guys NOW. I'm having a real hard time figuring out just who the Gang of Five are!
Been following your Bragging Rights Darts Challenge and it looks like fun. Everything has fallen nicely into place with the teams set and "reporter" slot filled by CM3 I'm NOT Shane! Should be a lot of fun once those reports start rolling in . . . . put me down as a "substitute!" Never know when someone comes down with "beer stein elbow!" <grin>
I'd say something to you, Al - however, you've not answered any of my emails - which the first was in response to you - so don't know what the deal is there. I'm not a "one way" communicator, sorry. It will be a plus to have you back aboard - but WHEN is the question. You also should take note that we are NO LONGER the bar you may remember - fewer guys and more interaction.
Finally, running those F-Troop TV shows is a great idea! They were hilariously funny - a bit on the corny side - but good entertainment nonetheless. Excellent choice for a night out at the Emporium Theatre!
Hope to check in tomorrow . . .
Until the next time!
Lars
Even though the bar at ”Our” Place is
CLOSED on SUNDAY’s –
We do observe Sunday Photo Posting Day!
Hard for me to believe that it's been OVER a year since my trip to Dallas. Dick Watkins (former "regular") arranged for a delightful day of riding trains - Trinity Rail Express (TRE) RDCs - Dallas Area Rapid Transit (DART) light rail - and street cars. A wonderful expience and one that deserves a bit of an ENCORE! insofar as some PIX are concerned.
Centrepoint station - Here comes the Dallas bound RDCs!
RDC destination board
In the cab with David the Engineer!
Five TRE RDC-1s and the TRE Inspection & Maintenance Facility (from the cab)
Railroading from the cab (en route Dallas)
TRE RDC #2011 cab controls
Interior of TRE RDC #2011
Approaching Dallas' Union Station
Enjoy!
Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang.
Sunday Morning and I'm in the office as the October 15, tax deadeline looms ever closer. Never have so many gone on extension as this year.
See everyone is enthused about baseball. Our Oakland A's not doing to badly. Neither of our NFL teams will be around for the playoffs this season or even the next couple.
TTFN Al
Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a quick chat then back to the taxes.
The other reason for my absense is tax season is still upon us. That is what I am doing in the office on Sunday. Final deadline is October 15 for all of those on extension. This year their were larger numbers of clients on extension then in previous years.
I guess our Oakland A's haven't played to badly either. Now if only the Raiders and 49ers can get it halfway together.
NOW PLAYING at the Mentor Village Emporium Theatre!
. . . Sunday, October 8th thru 14th: F Troop – The First Season (1965) Starring: Ken Berry, Forest Tucker, Larry Storch & Melody Patterson. SHORT: The Three Stooges – Back to the Woods (1937)
F Troop (1965) 34 Episodes!
PLOT SUMMARY: Becoming a hero by accidentally leading a cavalry charge the wrong way, Lieutenant Wilton Parmenter is given command of Fort Courage. The Fort's crafty Sgt. O'Rourke has a deal with the local Hekawi Indians to market their wares to the tourists. They must sometimes pretend to be enemies (and the Shugs really are enemies). Jane is out to marry the innocent Parmenter.
from: www.imdb.com
Back to the Woods (1937)
PLOT SUMMARY: Featuring Moe, Larry and Curly It is colonial times and the Stooges are tried by an English court for fighting some guards. They're sentenced to protect the colonies from the Indians. The Governor tries to make peace, but the Indian chief demands too high a price for the Pilgrims to pay for hunting privileges, so things look grim. The Stooges decide to hunt for the colonists anyway, and run into a lot of trouble with the Indians.
It is colonial times and the Stooges are tried by an English court for fighting some guards. They're sentenced to protect the colonies from the Indians. The Governor tries to make peace, but the Indian chief demands too high a price for the Pilgrims to pay for hunting privileges, so things look grim. The Stooges decide to hunt for the colonists anyway, and run into a lot of trouble with the Indians.
from: www.threestooges.net
Guten Tag allerseits!
Wie ist jeder? Es is OKTOBERFEST! Partei wollen wir!
Ach zooooooo - 20 Fingers is alive 'n well! Never have so many months passed waiting for a computer tech to fix a home system! (Winston Churchill 2006). <grin> I suppose we'll just have to suffer along until Al gets a ROUNDTUIT!
Wish you wouldn't refer to your earstwhile effort as "failed," Doug! The problem on this Forum is that it is THIS Forum - really believe that's the dilemma we put up with on "Classic Trains - General Discussion." Anyway, good to see ya again - enjoyed your ENCORE! submission. Sorry that it will apparently be largely ignored. <groan>
Okay - Doug has put himself on Team #2 and here's the update:
Bragging Rights DARTS CHALLENGE!
Team #1 - Pete 'n Rob
Team #2 - Nick 'n Doug
Reporter - CM3
When: 3 consecutive week nights in early November.
Where: Match 1 & 3 (if needed) at the Second Class Saloon in Can-Am Village.
Match 2 at "Our" Place.
Rules: According to the British Darts Organization; using the 501 method.
Transportation to the Second Class Saloon provided by Vito the Hit's limo service!
Best two of three takes it!
Just took a break from the baseball game betwen the Cards 'n Padres - my guys are down 3-zip in the 6th. So, it's back to the tube . . . .
Ruth - give 'em a drink and Boris ring the bell!
Auf Wiedersehen!
Good Morning Tom, Lars and anyone else that happens to be their. Time for a double CR and a round for the house.
20 fingers is not history. Just having a few problems at the office right now and can't seem to get together with the puter tech. I have missed him twice now once my fault and once his maybe three will be the lucky charm.
The 2006 tax year is going to be a record for us. If early indications are to be judged.
Have just had a chance to glance in the last few weeks will get back soon as home coputer bugs are straightened out.
Guten Morgen Herr Tom und all. I am tremendously behind in my reading here, but not totally unaware of the many spectacular posts in my absense. I'm not sure Nick would find me prefferable to Boris as a dart partner, as my flights have been packed away for sometime, but maybe they can be found. As for my qualifications, nobody can beat my consecutive record for hitting triple ones while aiming for the 20! Let me know what you think. I can't order a drink until after the completion of job #2, which begins in about an hour. Here's my little ENCORE for today, which again, I stole from my failed thread. I'm looking forward to the day I can participate here more fully.
The Streamline Experiment by Jim Holden, Mar. 1035 Railroad Magazine
Polished like a ballroom floor, smooth as an eel, the New Haven’s “Rail Zeppelin” is just about the slickest streamlined train so far. It has motors and a control room at each end.
Quite a few people talk about the “streamline train” when they mean the U.P.’s latest motor unit. They miss the point, because there are eight or nine other streamlined trains, all different. To be sure, they are all part of the same experiment. And what an experiment! Nothing like it has been seen on rails since 1872, when New York built its wind-blown subway.
In order to understand what is really happening, it is necessary to go back a couple of years. In 1931 Dr. Oscar Tietjen of the Westinghouse Laboratories announced that he had been fooling around with train models in a wind tunnel. He found that a big steam locomotive with two coaches saved 32% of its power at 75 miles if streamlined. This had been suspected for some time, but not measured.
In March, 1931, Railway Age described the experiments and said: “Dr. Tietjen’s tests … open up a new field of possibilities in operating trains and cars faster than at present without increased energy or fuel requirements.
Nothing much happened. About a year later Dr. Tirtjen and his associate, K.C.Ripley, presented a paper which showed that wind was very tricky (everyone knows this, but they had the figures to prove it). For instance, a wooden locomotive model which they had been testing was one day waxed and polished. They were startled to find that this cut down the wind resistance about 40%. Here was real evidence that streamlining pays.
“Railroad companies anticipating the future development of high-speed trains,” they said, “should start now to build experimental trains.”
Even before Tietjen announced his tests streamlining was being championed by Otto Kuhler, well-known engineering artist. He stressed especially the advertising value of streamlined equipment, and designed several streamlined steam engines. This magazine was the first widely circulated periodical to print his drawings and ideas (August, 1931). Since then Mr. Kuhler’s ideas have gained headway, and he is now consulting engineer of the American Locomotive Co., in which capacity he will be responsible for the design of Alco’s future streamlined steam engines.
All this evidently had some weight. During 1932 many gasoline rail-cars were built, most of them streamlined in some way or other.
“Take that junk off,” said “Uncle Dan” Willard of the B&O when he first saw this engine. “I want my locomotives to look like locomotives.” This is what No. 1, the “Lady Baltimore,” looks like after they took the junk off her. A 4-4-4 type rebuilt from one of the older Atlantics, she can hardly be considered a streamlined engine. Even though she has a recessed front coupler, closed-in cab, and high-backed tender. However, she is a fast young gal, and the B&O will use her to haul its new streamlined trains between Washington and New York. We are wondering, what did she look like before they took all the junk off her?
True, the idea of streamlining is much older. In 1865 the Reverend S. Calthrop of Rochester patented a very smooth train. It was something like an earthworm. In 1892 there was a regular hurricane of talk by Frederick U. Adams. But though he did much figuring and later tried a train, it was not a true streamline. Adams had no way of administering wind.
Adams wrote a book in which he said: “A train properly designed for minimizing air resistance due to speed can be made to travel 100 miles an hour with less expenditure of power than is now required to move a train of equal weight and capacity at a rate of 50 miles an hour.” (Science has not caught up with Adams on this yeat.)
Most trains then had open platforms. Adams designed one with joined coaches )he was father of the vestibule), a turtle top, underpan, and flush windows. Its rear was pointed, but the head end looked like a pile of flatirons.
Eight years passed. Adams raised $8,000 to streamline a real B&O train, which was called the Adams Air-Splitting (not ear-splitting) train, and made 40 miles in 37 ½ minutes, which was not so startling. The B&O decided the idea wasn’t worth much to them. “If you want to go faster, burn more coal,” they figured.
Today’s motor unit train comes not only form the wind tunnel, but from the automobile. During 1932 and 1933 there was a serious epidemic of rail motor cars. In 1932 the Budd Manufacturing Co. sent to France the “Lafayette,” a typical rail-car except that it had sort of a snoot. It was stainless steel, streamlined affair with pneumatic tires and steel rims. It burned gasoline, made about 60 miles an hour.
Another was the Austro-Daimler pneumatic-tired rail-car. One was bought by Cotton Belt and runs between Dallas and Jonesboro (Ark.). France produced the Bugatti, which made 107 miles an hour on four 200-h.p. motors using alcohol-benzol. Others were built in France by Michelin, Renault, S.O.M.U.A. and Charentaise.
The Pullman Railplane appeared in 1933 with a truss frame and looking as bulbous as a baby blimp sixty feet long. Its maximum speed is about 90 miles, on two 6-cylinder auto engines.
These are only a few of the rail-cars, which are the immediate ancestors of the latest Wonder on Wheels, showing that it did not spring into full glory overnight.
The most startling thing which happened during the rail-car epidemic was the appearance of the new type car in Germany, with a joint in the center. Its picture was first published in the newspapers of December, 1932, and it was the original streamlined train. It looked something like the Pullman trains.
Said the caption: “A streamlined rail motor car now being tested by the German National Railroad Company.”
The picture showed its bulbous front, deep under aprons, slick sides. In the front were three low windows, two head-lamps and two spreading bumpers. The bumpers looked like a mustache and the front was a good deal like a face.
“This new type of rail motor car,” said the account, “which the German State Railroads expect to put into service between Berlin and Hamburg during the early part of 1933, is said to be capable of attaining a speed of more than 99 miles per hour.”
Guten Morgen allerseits!
I see we're off to a rather inglorious start to Saturday at "Our" Place - zero, zip, zilch thus far. Haven't we been at this point before
So, Nick returned with a spate of Pix - good ones, especially those of the band - liked that last one. Must have missed my comments along with railroad metaphors . . . gotta use that RELOAD/REFRESH feature, Mate!
So, what's shakin' this day It's OKTOBERFEST Saturday and as advertised last week, we've got all sorts of activities out back for customers, family and friends. Check us out!
OKTOBERFEST at "Our" Place!
We will feature GERMAN brew all month!
GERMAN sausages will be added to the menu for the month, with all the trimmings!
On Saturday's in Otober The Mentor Village Teutonic Society will sponsor Oompah Music live at the "Our" Place picnic grounds Pavillion and Dance Emporium! Performers include the Sauerkraut Band, Electric Lederhosen and Burst the Wurst Trio
Lederhosen and Alpine hats will be worn by "Our Place"! staff throughout the month!
Full scale LGB trains will be running on the main lines for free round trips toCan-Am Gorge on weekends - 10 AM to 4 PM. First northbound departs the "Our" Place platform at 10 AM sharp. undt ve mean, sharp!
PLAN TO SHARE THIS FALL CELEBRATION WITH US!
And of course - this is ENCORE! Saturday for those who plan to sit amongst us!
Well hello again gents..looks like matters are under control in the galley (floggings will continue until morale improves...........) so I thought I might slide out amongst you all again.
MIKE-nice pix of Waverley-looking across the tracks to Prince`s gardens and Princes Street with the North British Hotel straddling the tracks in the background --very fine
Had many a wild evening when I used to live in that part of the world.
Nothing new to add since earlier so I thought I might throw a couple of pix at you all in advance of sunday
North & south views of the Welsh Highland Railway station at Dinas Jn taken from the road bridge-dating from probably the mid `30`s
Beddgelert stn W.H.R-same era
Haverfordwest stn,Pembs-mid `90`s
Bled Jezero Stn,Slovenia,Yugoslavia.-late `90`s
And since the booked entertainment failed to show up tonight,a couple for you all to have a giggle at:-
The Hoochie Coochie Band @ the blue rock festival and....
New Rose at the General Picton Inn-utterly shameful posing during Jumpin` Jack Flash
Riptide making the most of a 12,000 watt P.A.system,Haverfordwest carnival
Appreciate the last three are but as its a quiet weekend-have a chuckle at my expense
moonlight mile for me now,see you all soon,take care,nick
Gute Nacht allerseits!
Ach zooooooo, Mike 'n Nick have made it in tonite! Most pleased to have you at the bar and have enjoyed your contributions. Interestingly, we did have pizza tonite here at the "ranch," however, hardly the variety offered by our Chief Chef, Nick! Pineapple on pizza Good Gawd Gertie!
Yeah, Mike - some things I suppose will never go away; the Mets of old, the Dodgers of even older, and memories of bygone youth in NYC (that's New York City!).
Wonderful URLs! Waverly station trackwork is simply outstanding - Zephyr and UP Pix are 4.0 - "fusee" signs eductional, etc. Well done!
Nick - try these RR metaphors out in relation to songs:
Jack Straw - Grateful Dead
Catch the Detroit Lightning Out of Santa Fe Great Northern out of Cheyenne From sea to shining sea Gotta get to Tulsa First train we can ride Got to settle one old score And one small point of pride
He's Gone - Grateful Dead
"Like a steam locomotive rolling down the track, He's gone and nothing's gonna bring him back"
I know You Rider - Grateful Dead
"I Wish I was a headlight on a northbound train, I'd shine my light in the cool Colorado rain"
They Love Each Other - Grateful Dead
"It's nothing they explain, it's like a diesel train -- You better not be there when it rolls over..."
Okay - 'nuf of that!
Chianti and Italian food - ummmmmmm, good! No other red wine can compare, in my not-so-humble opinion! Eight bucks for a gallon Yikes! And of course everyone's pay check duly compensates for the spiraling cost of living, eh <yeah, right!>
Finally, IF no one steps up to the place, it will be NICK 'N BORIS making up Team #2 for our Bragging Rights DARTS CHALLENGE! Sorry 'bout that . . . .
Leon, serve 'em up a drink on the house - Boris, ring the bell!
MIKE-ships in the night again...Leadbelly,now theres a life story and a half.........will check out URL`s now,take care mate
Well good evening one and all-a Starop. for me (central European if not strictly Teutonic..) and a round or two for the company-which at the moment looks unlikely to break the bank-still,quality not quantity,eh ?
So,whats new this wet and murky friday night--
TOM-Boris & myself as a darts team pairing---are you SURE you have given this sufficient thought.......?-we may need to retain the services of Vito the hit`s `legal advisers` on this one -and certainly keep the engine running during the away fixture.........
Collusion corner prices over here have dipped sharply recently-we are now down to a modest $8 a gallon more or less-most forecourts now accept small children in part-payment for large puchases.............
CM3-yet another interesting trawl-I`m sure I`ve commented before on the R/R -song title connection-you mentioned "City of New Orleans" and,by inference, "Rock Island Line" -Here`s a weekend pop quiz, what others can the company come up with..?
One to start the ball rolling-"She Caught The Katy"-Blues Brothers soundtrack,original artist unknown,or how about the rather more generic "Night Train" by James Brown------gents,the floor is yours
CM3-those menu`s seemed to represent that long-gone era when service and pride in ones job outweighed the evil $/£/euro/yen/go-go bean.
For my part,I have always (out in the real world) made a point of including at least 2 veggie options on both starters & mains,and have always considered it a matter of professional pride to cook to order should any customer not be able to find something that suits them on the card-I would do no less if entertaining in my own home so what excuse not to do so when they are paying for the service ?
DL-UK also gave a useful list of available facilities on services in `merry olde`-my experiences there are limited to the Paddington-W/Wales run- ( I refuse to dignify it with the `Red Dragon/Draig Goch banner ) . The `chef service` on this has generally taken the form of a Y.T.S trainee (Youth Training Services or young,thick & spotty as they are better known) feeding pre-cooked grot into a microwave,although I will admit I may not have been on the best services (usually the 1st one up and the 1415 or 1515 down )--So DL-you are a `Brighton` man eh ?-have spent many happy (if slightly glazed ) hours amidst the elegant surroundings of `Little Victoria` waiting for a 3 unit set of 4-vep/cep`s to deliver me back to Coulsdon South in time for the last route 190 Routemaster up the hill ( a bloody long walk fom East Croydon if I nodded off, let me tell you....although route 109 to Purley Fountain could be an option if it didn`t pass you between stops.............ah,happy days indeed
LARS-glad you enjoyed some quality time with the kids,thanks for the `merch` URL`s-an uncle of mine was on the Murmansk run in the Brit merch,although he refuses to talk about it-a decision one can only respect-I will have Boris bring over a fresh stein or two to your La-Z-Boy in the corner
Right-so ...It`s friday again,it must be pizza night-I appreciate that TOM is something of a purist in these matters & regards extra toppings as the devils work,however I feel we must move with the times in order to attract custom therefore tonight we have the full range-anchovies,peppers,sausage,salami,mushrooms,4 cheeses,red onions,extra garlic,prawns,sliced scallops,green chilli`s,spicy beef.......however ( and I want to make this ABSOLUTELY clear ) pineapple is only an acceptable topping if you are heavily pregnant and have the ultrasound scans to prove it.
For those who fancy a lighter snack we also have oven-fresh garlic baguettes ( with or without melted cheese)
Stop Press-Helga & Hilda have just wandered in from the Zeppelin field (still in full flying leathers I`m happy to report ) bearing crates of what looks to be a very promising Chianti-the perfect accompaniment I would value your opinions.....................
O.K-I`m away to the galley to supervise the juniors-they are in high spirits after spending the afternoon using Tex the `dillo to switch empty beer crates round the Timesaver layout chalked out on the back yard ( it seems to have aquired two new spurs-charcoal to the B/B/Q oven and fresh straw to Boris`s shed..) whilst I`m out there I will use the `puter link to trawl up some sunday pix.
A few selections for Herr W. before I go-I feel a ladies night coming on so how about:- feels like home by Norah Jones ,black horse & the cherry tree by K.T.Tunstall,walk on by by Dionne Warwick & summertime & another piece of my heart by the incomparable Janis J.
Take care gents,enjoy the weekend-show tomorrow so unlikely to be in a fit state to contribute,speak soon,nick
Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house.
Merchant Marines died in Vietnam, that much I know.
Seaver and Koosman! Tom will always be a New Yorker at heart.
Model railroad pictures from James and Nick, very impressive both.
Just realized Pete is away. It may be moot now but he had requested links to
Waverley Station 1961
http://purl.dlib.indiana.edu/iudl/archives/cushman/full/P12313.jpg
http://purl.dlib.indiana.edu/iudl/archives/cushman/full/P12314.jpg
The photographer Mr. Cushman was all over the map. Here's a few more of his:
WP California Zephyr Greenville, California 1957
http://purl.dlib.indiana.edu/iudl/archives/cushman/full/P09445.jpg
http://purl.dlib.indiana.edu/iudl/archives/cushman/full/P09444.jpg
D&RGW California Zephyr Glenwood Springs, Colorado 1952
http://purl.dlib.indiana.edu/iudl/archives/cushman/full/P06400.jpg
UP Streamliner
http://purl.dlib.indiana.edu/iudl/archives/cushman/full/P10161.jpg
Chicago Midway Airport 1941
http://purl.dlib.indiana.edu/iudl/archives/cushman/full/P02543.jpg
Doug has posted old railroad stories wherein a candle of sorts was used for signals, something called a "Fusee." And lately CM3 has mentioned Indiana Harbor Belt, whose operations were photographed in 1943 by Jack Delano. These IHB pictures show the Fusee signs for
Go Ahead
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsac/1a34000/1a34600/1a34693v.jpg
Stop
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsac/1a34000/1a34600/1a34694v.jpg
Back up
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsac/1a34000/1a34600/1a34695v.jpg
My favorite picture archive is Canada Science & Technology Museum, because they have custody of all the CN company photos. Happily for me, lots of Central Vermont Railway in there too, so I go there often.
http://imagescn.technomuses.ca/structures/index_view.cfm?photoid=926862806&id=36
Incidentally, the song Midnight Special was written by Huddie Ledbetter, famously known as Leadbelly.
He also wrote Good Night Irene and The Rock Island Line.
Mike
G'day Cap'n Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!
Set 'em up, Ruth - Boris ring the bell, the Larsman has returned! I'll have a frosty cold stein of Krombacher Pils - ahhhhhhhhhhhh.
Safe trip to the old sod, Pete!
DL 'n Nick: check out this URL for U.S. Merchant Marine info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Merchant_Marine
There are so many - but this one gives a rather concise history.
And also this one: http://www.usmm.org/
Cap'n Tom: glad you heard from Eric - I had sent him an email some weeks back, but never received a reply. Figured he was still "locked in embrace" over there in Sweden! My Mrs. just uttered that I "have a filthy mind!" Hmmmmmmm, I represent that remark.
Well, you may be right on your assessment of things around here - but that doesn't help keeping this place up 'n running, huh The guys either take the time or . . . it's as simple as that. For example, if I cannot devote proper time, I don't check in. What's the point Makes one look a bit silly if you ask me. How much time does it take to at least check the page you are on Nah, I'd say the change has happened and that so called Gang of 10 can easily be cut in half. Sorry.
Hate to throw a damp rag on the weekend, but I'm doubtful . . . got so much on my plate and I "owe" my Mrs. lotsa time. So, if I'm scarce - at least you were forewarned. <groan>
In reading the exchanges going on between DL 'n Tom regarding Via Rail and those Chunnel cars, I've come away with the opinion that someone snookered someone in all of this. I mean, how in the world do competent people engage in such folly? Purchase something for a 'good price' even if that 'good price' will suddenly skyrocket due to retrfits, etc. Amazing, simply amazing. And Bombardier wanted 5 million bucks PER car for the 'replica Budds' ???? Awful, simply awful. Wonder what Colorado Railcar wudda charged had they been asked?? Somewhere along the line - and perhaps not that far off, those Budd streamliners are destined to be layed up. So, if long distance passenger rail travel is still something held viable in Canada, I'd say replacement sources need to be lined up, as in NOW.
Hope to see you guys B4 Tuesday's "Theme for the Day!" but if not, don't forget - it's the ROCK ISLAND Line (Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific - CRIP).
One more, Ruth and this time make it a Warsteiner Premium Verum!
Pete and his bride should be airborne by now heading to the east coast for their connection with a flight to "Merry Olde." Dropped them off at the airport a few hours ago. Pete says he'll try to get on line from Rugby and do his best to keep up with the goings on. And yes, DL - Pete now resides in central Missouri (Jefferson City) but still maintains property in Rugby.
CM3 - pleased to have you aboard, as always and will share the latest price drop in petrol with you- now at $2.14 (rounded)! <grin> Why not transfer to the mid-west where our mines are warmer than your mines! I shudda made comment about that farmer 'n alligator joke, a 5-star fer sure, fer sure! But since "stars" are apparently banned on the Forums - so be it! <grin> A "classic" in every sense. (see page 405 if you missed this funny . . . )
Very happy to mark the return of our Manager - Lars - from the baseball "wars"! <geesh> One would think you've been in combat! Yes, it looks probable that the Mets 'n Cards will square off for the NL Pennant. Earlier in the season I would've given that better than a fair chance - however, from mid-season to last week, it was a crap shoot. My Red Birds will be lucky if they take one of the games against the most formidible offensive Mets team I've ever witnessed. Pitching? Nah - nothing will EVER take the place of the Seaver-Koosman "glory" years.
DL - as I understand it - those "Chunnel Chuggers" that I've been maligning really were manufactured by Alstom, Ltd. for a consortium that had planned on their use from GB to the continent. These "Nightstock" cars were left "sitting" once that group of investors/planners (consortium by any other name) went belly-up. If it wasn't true bankruptcy, then for whatever the reason, those cars never saw service in Europe. As all of this unfolded, enter Canada. Bottom line: they purchased 139 of the cars with a value of $125 million (Cdn). That's where the "fun" began as the retrofits and endless court battles ensued regarding handicapped accessibility and so forth. European Nightstock Services wound up with a sack of cash and VIA Rail with cars that were "pretty" but hardly in kind replacements for the Budd beauties.
Insofar as the Budd cars are concerned - I'm unaware of any that have been put to the torch for any reasons other than too costly to repair as a result of accidents and so forth. The western routes (along with the route to Gaspe in the east) use this equipment. As those numbers diminish, the greater the need. Let me provide just a tad of info regarding the Ocean and the Budd fleet.
It was announced by VIA Rail in the early 2000s that the Renaissance fleet would replace all of the Budd consists (3 total) on the Ocean route. A date had been fixed, however, many problems arose - least of all a freezing problem, which delayed the implementation. Then when it was decided to keep a Budd Park car on during tourist season, it became apparent that alignment problems had to be overcome as well - couplers not matching up, vestibules off center, heights and widths, et al. Anyway, one complete Budd consist was kept on the line, with two Renaissance trains (sans Park car) for the round trips. For over a year, IF YOU KNEW HOW, one could continue booking trips on the Budd equipment (which VIA kept referring to as HEP; another story and yet another point of huge chagrin!). Finally, when the refurbishments were complete - the Renaissance cars relaced all but the Park cars. End of story, as I know it. Enterprise Budd equipment, as far as I know, went west.
VIA touts their Renaissance fleet as the "second coming." Apparently an advertising gimmick put together by people who wouldn't know a jucntion box from a potato masher. The cars belong to VIA and will be in service for far fewer years than those Budds - in my not-so-humble opinion.
Lars - again, great to have you back, even if only for a short while. I understand the constraints of time and believe me, ANY time you share with us is QUALITY time! Not to worry about who comes in and when - it's always been a sink or swim situation around here and probably will remain so. I've concluded that the bar is on the WRONG Forum. Really, this "classic trains" Forum doesn't get the traffic that let's say the "model railroads" or "trains" Forums garner. So, fewer opportunities for guys to pop in, etc. Now that isn't to say we should move - we won't - nor is it to say we'll fold the tent - that could happen, but not for that reason. It simply says that in order to attract new blood we need HELP. If our guys fail to pick up on this, our numbers will just do what they've been doing - dwindle.
DL - I hope you have written to VIA Rail's CEO about your experiences with the dining and perhaps other shortcomings of your journey. They MUST be made aware. More than a few of us write them regarding our thoughts - POSITIVE 'n NEGATIVE, and I've always received a reply. Granted, many of them are "canned," but replies nonetheless. I also belong to a group called Transport T2000 Canada which is a citizen-activist lobby organization for all kinds of transportation matters. The way I look at it, the "boss" will never know UNLESS someone brings it to his or her attention.
Hi Tom, staff and all in the house, a pint of mild ready for the weekend.
Tom – thanks for that – no hurry to respond to my points – it was long post, but no urgency about it – will be interesting to hear your thoughts in the fullness of time.
Also – yes, if you think any of that stuff of help to Pete please pass it on – from what I read he clearly stays very much up to speed on UK stuff and has a very high depth of knowledge (is he really on that side of the pond?) but maybe there is a little tip on there he does not know yet so in case it is of use do pass it on. Lets hope we can look forward to some good travelogues in due course.
Just on Nick’s point – don’t think the chugger car manufacturer or operation went bust – the whole thing was joint owned by UK, France and Belgium governments via the state railways – although in UK the government may have set up a ‘fake’ private company to handle it in wake of the UK privatisation debacle. It was taxpayers that lost the money on this one, you can be sure no private shareholder lost their shirt!
Coalminer – I’ll take one of those IC (is that Illinois Central?) menus no problem, I bet the staff on board can do my partner a dish of her desire from ingredients in stock with good grace!
Lars (and Tom) glad you found those Liverpool URLs of interest. I expect you have visited the Halifax Museum of the Atlantic Tom? I thought they had done a good job there.
DL-UK
G'day Captain Tom and fellow travelers at the bar!
We're talking baseball, baseball in New York! (Remember that tune??) Anyway, a great game over at Shea Stadium the other day - Mets won! The weirdest play at home plate that I've ever seen. Couldn't believe it - still can't. What were those guys thinking - two outs on one throw! Surely turned the tide in our favor. Yesterday it was Yankee Stadium and although the Yanks lost it, the Tigers put up a good fight and show me that they deserve to be in it. Last night -in front of the TV - Mets won again! So, looks as if it will be the Cards 'n Mets for the NL Pennant. That will be something, huh
I'm tired - beat - and exhausted. Way too much for this old man. My "boys" seem to think I have this unending source of energy, ha! Really don't know why I let myself in for that game yesterday - but . . . My number 2 son was with us at Shea the other day, and then he headed directly over to the Bronx for the night game at Yankee Stadium. It got rained out so he wound up with two tickets to yesterday's affair. His buddy couldn't get away from work - so I was next best choice. (I was available is what it really amounted to!!) No more - that's it - TV from here on out.
So, the pages have been filled with some interesting and enlightening material from our newfound friend, DL in the UK. Nice going! Between you and Captain Tom, we'll all become further acquainted with Via Rail and Canadian passenger trains.
I have to say that without Rob 'n Doug making their daily appearances, there is a change that has settled in 'round here. Regardless of the reasons, the absences are felt and now we look forward to maybe a couple of posts per week, where it used to be many. Well, add me to that list too - for I'm going to be scarce for awhile. Don't know what my schedule will be - I've got some trips to make - and matters to attend to. With BK gone for a bit and Tom about to, and oh yes, Pete departing for GB - that really will reduce the particpation 'round the Tavern by the Tracks. Eric where are you when we need you?? And Left Coast Dave - c'mon back!! 20 Fingers is history, so we need you more than evAH! <grin>
No point in posting for the sake of posting and no point in posting to the Ether. Change is about us and we either adapt or . . . .
Appears as if our Tuesday's Theme worked out well and I'll try to get something put together for the next - Rock Island, is it Fine with me - a might fine road, I've heard!
The Bragging Rights Darts Challenge is a great idea! And once again, Captain Tom has conjured up something to get us involved. Show me where this is happening on other threads - bet it doesn't. Anyway, I'm not at all sure of my situation in November, so I'll hold off making a committment. My guess is someone will step up and the two teams will "point the way" to victory! So, it's to be over at the Second Class Saloon, huh I've stopped by once or thrice - not a bad place. They feature "eastern beers" - so that's right in my neck of the woods, so to speak. The guys are friendly enough - but very territorial. So, a word to the wise, watch your backs!
I wanted to add my comments regarding the "merchies" - but will do so in my next visit. Captain Tom, DL 'n Nick have warmed my heart with theirs . . . Great Urls from DL!!
Enjoyed your last couple of Posts, CM3! Can just imagine the 'reporting' we're going to be treated to . . .
Ruth - a round on me and a JD on the rocks B4 I head out . . .
Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.
To Our ‘Steamed Proprietor. Cards win! The pitching has held together better than I thought it would, as Pujols reminds me of Yastrzemski in 1967 – carried the team. I must be getting old because that will be 40 years ago next season. Barkeep, quick – three fingers of the good stuff, and dump it in the coffee mug ASAP! Where have you gone, Jose Tartabul? I was not yet married to my future ex wife and we went to 35 games at Fenway that year - Cost about $4.50 for a box seat then..........
And the!@#$ Yankees are on their way to Kittyville with that series tied.
Gas holds at $2.29/gal. here – wherever you are in this part of the coalfields.
Thanks for the rerun of the LNER ad
I am oiling up and refurbishing the manual typewriter (Underwood Upright) so we can have properly done darts reports. Boris and Nick on the same team? How come practice looks like a Home Guards bayonet drill? I know, as a reporter I must be objective. In addition to my flashbacks to "Young Frankenstein," the upcoming darts tournament reminds me of some of the episodes on Cheers when Sam's bar was challenged by Gary's Olde Towne Tavern, classic stuff.
DL – Lots of interesting information and commentary – I learn more stuff every day – thanks. See the end of this post if you are REALLY hungry.
Nick – The “Midnight Special” was, indeed, a real train. IIRC, the tune was named for the train, not the other way around. I model the Chicago area as it gives me an excuse to run all sorts of different road’s motive power. Maybe we can do GM&O theme some day. BTW, since you like oddball locomotives the GM&O's GP30s had Alco FA trucks; made for an interesting combination.
Pete – Safe travels!
Comments on dining brought this to mind. so here’s a rerun for today as I am working up Rock Island material for next week.
The IC still had a fair amount of passenger service in 1969.
Trains 1 and 2, the “City of New Orleans” was an all-coach operation between Chicago and New Orleans (two dome coaches as well). The City had a diner-counter-lounge between Chicago and Jackson
Trains 3 and 4, ‘The Panama Limited” was still the pride of the railroad although itnow had coaches.
Trains 3 and 4 “Mid-American” was an all-coach train between Chicago and Memphis which had a food-bar-coach as well.
Trains 7 and 8 “The Illini” ran with coaches and a food-bar-coach between Chicago and Carbondale, as did Trains 9 and 10, the “Shawnee.”
We have discussed trains 52 and 53, the “City of Miami” in an earlier post. Trains 105 and 106 ran between St. Louis and Carbondale/
Trains 11 and 12 , the “Hawkeye” were all-coach operations that ran on a God-awful schedule between Chicago and Sioux City.
Last was trains 21 and 22 “Governor’s Special” between Chicago and Springfield. These runs had coaches and a “Palm Grove Café” Car.
Going back to the early 60s we find that the “Panama” was still all-Pullman.
It had the following consist
Sleeping Cars:
Chicago-New Orleans: 10 rtte/6db (2 cars); 4 comp./4db/2 drawing rooms; 11 db
Chicago-New Orleans: 2 db/1dr/2 comp observation car
Chicago-Jackson: 10 rtte/6db
St. Louis-New Orleans: 10rtte/6db (via Carbondale)
Chicago-New Orleans Twin-Unit diner
The IC was noted for its food and the top offering was the Kings Dinner on the Panama.
Here’s what the passenger got for $9.85 in 1965 (damn the blood tests, full speed ahead!)
Manhattan or martini cocktail
Appetizers
Shrimp cocktail or carb
Wine
Fish
Char-broiled steak with mushrooms
Salad and dressing (prepared at your table)
Rolls/breads
Cheese/ apple wedges
Coffee
After dinner cordial
I also found a menu from the City of Miami in my material
Entrees includes
Fried halibut, potatoes and salad - $1.50
Saute Veal, spaghetti Milanese, Lima beans - $1.60
Roast turkey – dressing, potatoes, Lima beans - $ 1.75
Dinner rolls
work safe
P.S. We rest Monday so I'll see you Tuesday a.m.
Wie ist jeder? Es ist Oktoberfest, Partei wollen wir!
A brisk start to this morning here in mid-continent USA as Juneau made the mile in record time <pant-pant-pant>. Nothing like a 3 year old Siberian Husky to get your blood pumping! A great time of year and I'd love to find a place on this planet where winters are white and the rest of the seasons have temps no higher than 80 (F). Ahhhhhhhh.
Wonderful Posts from Nick 'n DL and I'm not sure there's sufficient time to do justice to both. On a tight string this AM - but here goes:
Nick - the Bragging Rights DARTS CHALLENGE is to be a 501 affair, following the rules established by the British Darts Organization (BDO) - refer to the initial NOTICE previusly Posted. We've got to find a partner for you - otherwise it's BORIS!!
DL - those URLs for the Liverpool museum are priceless! Many thanx - I've checked 'em out and will devote some serious time with both of them later this day. Here in the U.S. it was a long, hard struggle to finally win recognition from our government for the sacrifices made by those merchant seaman during those hard times and several years to follow after WWII. Oh, the politicians said the "right words," but the actions indicated a far different attitude. These guys were not afforded any benefits as veterans, nor were they helped to cope with their injuries and so forth. I could write a book! Same pretty much in Canada. However, both nations have righted the ship - but alas, the guys who probably needed the assistance and recognition the most - are long gone. But, at least the politicians can now go about their business with a tarnished feather in their collective caps. <barf>
Nick - for all the talk about the "greatest" north American passenger railroads pretty much focused on eastern roads, I'd have to throw in with the Santa Fe as being right up there. Those trains were not only pleasing to the eye, but traversed a huge part of this country and did so in style. I had the privilege of being aboard the Super Chief as a kid - the story has been told several times on these Pages - my memory is only partially "vivid." But, as 9 or 10 year old, I can assure one and all, it was a trip not to topped. Upon arrival in Chicago from LA, I was "transferred" over to the Pennsy and what may have been the Broadway Limited bound for NY City. Anyway, the AT&SF was a class operation when it came to passenger trains and all one has to do is take in the Pix of those wonderful trains . . .
DL - I will be sure to let Pete know of your comments in today's Epistle. Upon his return, my guess is it will be at the top of his list of conversations to read.
Nick - the point regarding the "Chunnel Chuggers" is more along the lines of the failure of adaptation. I'm surely no judge of quality, but they seem to be made well, certainly are stylish but were manufactured for far different circumstances than long distance travel in north America. That's the rub. The consortium over in GB that went bankrupt had all of those cars (over 100) on their hands and probably would've jumped through hoops of fire to get rid of them. Canada came a-callin' and the rest is history. The refitting - the costs - the reluctance of many to accept them - has really made one look at all of this with a very jaundiced eye.
DL - I'll get back to you in a bit regarding the remainder of your commentary.
Boris, serve ‘em up all of the “spiked” OJ they can handle!
Hello Tom, and all the staff. That vegetarian special was mouthwatering Nick, a nice choice. I’ll order a pancake breakfast with juice today.
In this post I’ll just try and catch up with some comments and post what I think will be my final new comments on VIA Rail’s The Ocean – which will concern dining, a subject I have held back from up to now.
Tom – Smoothsides – thanks for that explanation, yep AOE cars were of that nature.
Pics at Halifax – I’m aware of the posts on various threads about the post 9-11 situation as it impacts on photographers, and no doubt had I pushed the guy he would have spun that line. In fact that is why I had the courtesy to ask – the lesson I learned was I should have barged through the doors, done the pics and just acted innocent in the unlikely event of being challenged, of course having asked I was not going to disobey his instructions, since that is rude and unreasonable. Did get some pics at Moncton – but weather was grey that day - since that was in your original list of tips (whilst my partner held the prime dome seats since you had recommended the stretch after that – quite rightly in my view – as a good scenic part).
Enterprise – last time I was in Toronto they were pushing the Enterprise with the new Ren sleeper cars, but after that the budget cuts must have come in, which must have freed those cars for The Ocean? All in all this plan must have sent either plenty of Budd cars out west, or to retirement, or to scrap? Do you know what has happened to them? – they are classics so I hope none have gone to the scrap man’s torch.
Corvettes and Merchant Navy – both in respect of yours and Pete’s comment – the contribution of those people is not forgotten here, at least not in our household, so my message of thanks is a genuine one. Those Murmansk runs must have been especially harsh. Nice to be in a bar where I can buy some drinks for people whose family made that contribution. I was pleased to be able to leave a comment to this effect in the ‘vette visitor book – even though the house style of all previous contributions was simply a name and address. I considered it appropriate to break the convention given the point I wished to make.
I believe they have opened a museum in Liverpool which shows the control room for the North Atlantic Convoy. I’d like to visit that. Here are some links:
http://www.liverpoolwarmuseum.co.uk/history/
http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/maritime/exhibitions/boa/home.asp
LNER / LMS publicity – enjoyed that. I have some stuff from my own small collection of publicity and timetables and, in respect of your comment Pete, I think the UK companies co-operated on publicity BUT only for overseas adverts (not for anything in the UK until wartime when they issued publicity stuff jointly – but by then they were in effect under joint - government run – control). Did that literature have a pictorial cover Tom? The LNER in particular are known for their stylish deco artwork (now I think about it probably no surprise then that that Beavertail Saloon was an LNER designed vehicle too).
Pete – your other points:
Dawlish route: Yes, agree with you there 100%. Another good GWR route is mid Wales – most of the way from Welshpool – Pwllheli is very nice. Nick has posted about the narrow gauge in this area recently too.
Shipstones – closed about 1991. Yes – building is listed of historic interest and has been maintained. Is some sort of auction house and storage facility now, but underused. Home Brewery closed about 1996. Site cleared for dull supermarket apart from listed main building which is an office conversion. Mansfield Brewery closed a few years after that following shareholders decision to cut and run. Kimberley was the last of the locals in this neck of the woods – an industry wiped out locally leaving only a few micros.
UK National Time Table (NRT) – yes no point in relying on what I call the “Dis-Information” call centres – ask them anything subtle and they just take a wild guess and hope you will go away. Not sure what staffed offices will be expected to do, whether they will use computers for answering queries (as they mostly do) or if they will get special printed versions. Gone will be the days when a late train results in the guard walking down with a copy of the NRT in one hand to help people with connections – juts leave them to fend for themselves I expect.
They say they will publish the whole NRT as pdf docs on the web, one for each timetable. It would be nice if they could publish this on CD for sale if the paper one is to cease. In fact I must write a letter to them to press for this. Meanwhile if you see a copy whilst you are here I’d pick one up as a souvenir – you know where to ask – WH Smith at the large stations or indeed at the booking office of any well staffed station. Still a snip at 12 quid.
I think I will have to rely on the excellent Thomas Cook European Timetable which has quite a lot of the UK services detailed. If you are travelling anywhere in Europe – don’t leave home without a copy.
Dining: Here is the run down in case it is of use for this and future trips: the operators all have different regs so this summary might help for your current trip or for others. A properly prepared dining car meal is a real treat and will soon die out so if in the UK take the opportunity whilst you can!
With one exception operators only provide chef cooked meals Monday thru Friday:
GNER (London North East England, Edinburgh and beyond): The best provision - Standard Class passengers can use the dining car for duration of meal if not full with first class (it never to very rarely is full in my experience).
Virgin Trains: (London North West England Glasgow) Real chef cooked food now limited to breakfast I believe (I may be wrong about this), and only provided to First class ticket holders, but it is free to them. Other times of day I think food is pre prepared sort of cook thru microwave style, again for 1st class only, but included in fare.
Great Western: (London, South Wales, South West England) – massive cut backs on numbers of dining cars to only maybe 3 or 4 per day on named trains (marked Pullman in timetable) Standard Class passengers can use the dining car for duration of meal if not full with first class. What is left is very good quality – just not enough of it!
One Anglia: (London – Norwich) – again very good provision currently (only one still to provide afternoon tea!) and Standard Class passengers can use the dining car for duration of meal if not full with first class.
Midland Mainline (London, East Midlands, Sheffield): Real chef cooked food now limited to breakfast, and only provided to First class ticket holders, although you can get some inclusive advance tickets that work out very cheap when you consider you travel first class and get a meal. The only operator to provide some Saturday morning provision on journeys to London.
Scotrail: Some microwaved catering on board London Scotland Sleepers in the lounge car, not chef prepared so best used as last resort. Standard class access permitted if lounge not full of first class passengers.
To check which trains have the dining (since not all services on a particular route will have a dining car) – use the operators website to download a pdf version of their timetable which will show the full service pattern. Look for the knife and fork symbol at the top of the relevant column
Pete – hope you can make the GC event – if I go I’ll report back (if others will forgive the UK dominated theme) if not – hope you get some good mileage on the steel wheel. Weather forecast is sun for the w/e.
Nick – Routemasters – yes route 159 was the last to go and I went to London for the last day. I was not on the last service but probably 4th to last – they dispatched a whole load of extra ones at the end from the start point at Marble Arch to accommodate the final day crowds. There was real atmosphere along the route that day with many people out to view, enthusiasts and civilians.
Check this site and scroll down for an amusing last day picture:
http://www.routemaster.org.uk/
In fact they still operate in scheduled service during the day on route 9 and 15 as a semi tourist attraction – but they do take regular tickets and passes, and the fleet they use for this is nicely restored. It is run as a normal service, not a tourist service.
Also – re Brighton Line - I grew up on LBSCR territory and my first job was in railway catering at Brighton station – probably qualifies me for a position at Our Place should any vacancies arrive!
Tom – I expect you will have most thoughts on this, but I must say the weak link on my Ocean trip was the dining car – here is the story. The car is well designed and appointed as you say.
I must say that by ordering a vegetarian meal at the grill yesterday I was testing the service at Our Place. Nick came up with a superb choice so what can I say. – Great Service!
I’m not actually vegetarian myself but my partner is. She’s not fussy (if we dine with friends and they have not prepared a vegetarian dish she will happily just eat the accompanying veg and enjoy it). She’s not making a political statement, it is just a dietary choice.
We were aware (through your comment) there was no chef aboard so realised they may need to be aware. Before leaving UK we had e-mailed VIA to let them know, and it had been acknowledged, on arrival in Montreal 2 weeks before trip we collected tickets and checked again that they knew – they did, it was stated on their computer, on check in we also checked – so we triple checked that this was OK before train departure. What happened when we sat down for the meal? “Sorry we don’t have a vegetarian starter course – is the fish OK” (since when was a fish a vegetable?) they had a vegetarian main, but only the one so this was the only option for her for lunch the next day (how many other passengers would have found it acceptable to be served the same dish at consecutive meals, do we get charged less? no). I have to say this was poor, and not of itself the fault of the staff on the train, since whoever stocks the meals should sort this out.
However, and this was hard to understand, the staff in the dining car seemed to have really bad grace about it – it was like they treated us as if we were trouble makers or something, just because one person asked for a meal without meat or fish. They did not seem to really want to overcome the problem. Even though the service was poor at this first meal I still left a decent tip since I felt that might improve things next meal – but no – still same bad attitude, we had to ask for items on the menu (like the orange juice for goodness sake) whilst other diners were being plied with all and sundry. By the third meal we were not looking forward to dining. Like I said before the service was off hand and poor quality – almost as bad as the sort of poor service you routinely have to put up with here in the UK and a stark contrast to the high standards that comes as regular (in my experience) in North America.
I must say I was really hacked off about this. In contrast with service on Amtrak a few years before (where provision of real chef resulted in them cooking a special meal to ensure my partner did not have to eat the same choice on consecutive days). In fact we got off Amtrak thinking we could not wait to do another journey, if it had not been for the scenery, the Park Car and the great service of the Learning Co-ordinator I’d probably have left VIA with a take it or leave it attitude to another journey. If not committed to travel by train I can imagine a lesser person would not bother with VIA again on the basis of the dining experience.
The airlines seem to manage to deal with all sorts of bizarre dietary requests in what they serve up as an excuse for food, I could not see why VIA could not manage a relatively simple vegetarian request. If they want to save money by doing away with chefs and proper food preparation cars then they should spend some on sorting this out! On a more positive note I had the meat and fish options and I have to say they were very nice, esp. considering the fact that they are not fully chef prepared on board.
So - the dining car was the one down side on The Ocean trip. You will perhaps be amused to hear that whilst on board I consulted my print of off your original notes Tom, and there it was, you clearly stated that the dining car left something to be desired. And so it was.
Apols for the length of post, and for more UK ramblings to those of you for whom this is a foreign country.
DL - UK
PS maybe I was too hard on the Stones, lets have soem change for the Wurl. and I'll select some tracks.
O.K. Leon,a double round and break out the special rum,this may take a while..........
quick note R.E. the darts-I assume we are playing traditional 501-double start,double finish or treble finish,which allows for bonus points for a 9 dart `set` ?.........
Right,DOUG-nice close ups of the S/F `alligator`-a fierce creature in it`s own right
TOM-Have to agree r.e the chuggers-best that can be said is that their construction kept men in employment...........Nice run-down on the S/F pass runs,had no idea that they had such a huge range of operation-us brits tend not to think on that sort of scale I guess-That shot of the Quebec bridge by night is an absolute beaut.-It does look a lot like the Forth bridge-still,only so many ways to build one I guess...?
CM3-Loved the alligator gag and the extra texture on S/F ops-nice one. delighted to see that the `Midnight Special `was more than a Leadbelly song (and a fine one at that)-the yard crew responsible for loading the spiral Zeppellin mast are all on a `fizzer`...That Chicago freight interchange would make a fine layout(although I rather think it`s already been done)
ROB-nice work on the Harvey catering chain-it`s the additional detail that makes the picture
DL-UK-an insightful trip report there my friend,well done ,will certainly print out a copy if,as or when I get the chance to make the trip--Grauniad report made interesting reading also-grew up by and used to travel regulaly on the Vic/E.Croyden/G/wick/Brighton line and take it from me-removing one block of seats from every coach and replacing them with luggage racks does not make an airport special--the new Padd/H/row service is a different kettle of fish altogether
BK(and LYDIA)-fine selection of drumheads-brought the other descriptions to life-a pic is worth a thousand words and all that
LARS-some fine bookcovers there-wish my local library was that far sighted.....hope you enjoyed the big game
MIKE-enjoyed the description of the trip,nice one mate
JAMES-nice night shot pix-you can almost hear the U-boats ticking over -daylight shots also good,nice transitional curves there,display cases also v. good (although I cricked my neck trying to read the titles on the bookshelf-U. LeGuin always good with me -stay with it mate.!!
PETE-R.E-60`s pix-My theory (oh lordy,he`s off again) the film from those days used an emulsion in which the red/yellow range lasted better than the blue/green range-thus they look `warmer` as they get older-look at some of Ivo Peter`s shots of the S&DJR from way back when-just a theory you understand-in those days it was always summer..........Nice description of the rest of the scots trip with fine pix--that lovely warm pinkish stone on the station building and the beautiful array of semaphores at the end of the platforms---The Settle Inn (marvellous pun ) looks like my kind of place-live music & a cashpoint-what more could an old muso wish for..........
ROB-back in the bar at last-you seem to have spent all night `back of house`-is the tax assessor due or something ?? -sit down and have a blue or two-you look quite worn out dear boy,it won`t do at all..........
ERICX2000-a lost soul it would seem,I met a lovely Swedish girl once-she offered to show me her Volvo.......
TOM-a nice reprise on the L.N.E.R/L.M.S race to the north........A well made point R.E Knighthoods etc-my understanding is that Keith gives $100,000 p.a to feed starving kids in africa but is furious that this has become known-perhaps `cos this doesn`t fit `the image` -who knows ??????
DL-UK-believe the last of the `Routemasters `was withdrawn from regular service last year-another era passes..R.E Stones-for my money they did their best work between `68 & `72-but each to his own says I-we start our second set with `Start me up` from `81 and also include `the last time` from about `64 and the punters love it-who am I to argue..?
DAVE-How nice to see you mate grab a seat and have some food whilst you are here-hope they are not riding you too hard -kick back and enjoy for an hour or two
Right,I`d better go & see how Boris & Copperkettle are coping in the galley..............
Oh lordy ....it`s worse than I could have imagined................................
O.K.......Tonight we have:-
Cod,Haddock or Halibut in batter
Plaice or Sole in herbed breadcrumbs
Whole baked Trout ,stuffed with Prawn mousse
Grilled Red Snapper
all served with french fries & `s salad
also the famous `track gang grill`-6oz steak,6oz gammon,2 lamb chops,devilled kidneys,double fried eggs plus a hand of locally produced sausages,fried mushrooms ,grilled toms & onion rings with a side of fries & a taxi home
Vegetarian option-Button mushroom,zuccini ,red pepper & cauliflower Stroganoff on a bed of mixed rices with a side of honey glazed baby carrots and fine beans.
O.K gents,looks like I`m in the galley for the rest of the evening-ENJOY...!!!!
Safe journey to all who are going out & about,see the rest of you soon.
Take care fella`s,all the best,nick
Wie ist jeder? Es ist OKTOBERFEST, Partei wollen wir!
Cards are up 2 games to zip - one more win and it's on to the next round!
It is evening here in mid-continent USA and we’ve just returned from our trek ‘round the subdivision with Juneau – his 2nd mile hike of the day. Seems a bit odd to return in the semi-darkness. We set out for walk #1 in the dark and return from #2 pretty much the same way. Petrol up at “Collusion Corner” dropped to $1.14 (rounded) – however, we look for a “spike” now that OPEC has decided to cut back production. How many of us know that oil prices have tripled in the past several years And we seem not to be able to counter it by any means. <barf>
Good to see Left Coast Dave – albeit a “hit ‘n run” Post – rather unlike him, but . . . Dave, you’re the ONLY California customer remaining, gotta do better than THAT plus we haven’t amassed too many Pages since your last visit – not at all like “old times.” Hope you’ll get back into the swing of things real soon, as we’re beginning to “hurt” again as planned absences take their toll. Many thanx for the round!
Nick – you’re “in”! Figured you for a Darts-kinda-guy. Underarm delivery, eh Better provide a wide berth when you’re “up”! <grin> So, here’s the “skinny” thus far:
Bragging Rights DARTS CHALLENGE participants:
Team #1 – Pete ‘n Rob
Team #2 – Nick ‘n ??????
Reporter – CM3
C’mon guys, we need ONE more player who can handle his beer ‘n his darts! Check out the Posts “up” on this page.
Pete – without a doubt we’re going to miss you and the excellent commentary you’ve entertained us with over these months. We know when our Wolfman is gone – hope the moon gets full and remains that way, real soon!
Leon, set 'em up and Boris, ring the bell - drinks on the Proprietor!
Hi Tom and all.
I have a Bathams, as I've got to get in practise for the English ales, RUTH and can you put me down for NICK's Fish'N'Chips for later please.
ROB Good to have a darts partner. It is a pity the prices at the Harveys are not the same nowadays, although if I remember right the dearest thing on the menu at the New Harveys at Kansas City Union station is $8.99, which is not too bad.
NICK. Thanks for the layout pics and the great descriptions .
JAMES Thanks for sharing the Model Cabinet, it looks great. I will catch up with the Rock Island Theme Day when I get back.
CM3 Glad you enjoyed part 2 and pleased you are going to report on the Darts Match.
Another great Switching Lines. I wonder how many of those 150 industries served by the Chicago River District are still in existance or still rail connected today There must have been many men employed in the Re-Icing Facilities.
DL-UK Yes I am enjoying the talk between TOM and you on the Canadian passenger trains.
Good words on the Halifax Corvette, I knew it would strike a chord with TOM, My father served on a Corvette on the North Atlantic run in WWII, and always had the most respect for the Merchant seamen.
I glad I was able to visit the TRIP when it sold Kimberley, Is the old Shipstones brewery which I belived closed quite a while ago still standing.
I agree, while the line along the coast north of Berwick is scenic it can't compare with the West Highland and the Kyle line or the S&C. The coast line on the Great Western by Dawlish is scenic as well especially at dawn when being hauled by a Western diesel hydrulic.
I had heard about the demise of the National Time-Table, a bad move in my opinion, imagine being at the mercy of the enquiry centre. Will the BR inquiry offices still have a National time table do you know.
Unfortunatly I did not have a breakfast on the GNER. I was not sure of the arrangement so I had got some food before I boarded. I wish I had waited and tried their Breakfast which was advertised on the train.
I must admit if I can travel in daylight I will, but I have used the sleeper to Fort William and Inverness, which was spoiled when the electric loco hitched off and it seemed a long time before the diesel hooked on and the car got cold.but is great to leave London and to wake up inthe Scottish Highlands.
Great link to the Beavertail, and thanks for the GC gala details, there is a very faint chance I may be able to go, it will depend on whats happens on the Sunday, anyway if I cant make and if you do go, perhaps you could tell us what was it like.
DAVE Good to see you in. Thanks for the beer hope you can up to speed and be back again soon.
LARS Hope you had a great time at the baseball matches.
I see NICK has called in and signed up for the darts.
TOM. Well we have got a great reporter in CM3 for the dart match, just one small point what kind of beer does the 2nd Class Saloon sell, it could very well effect team performance, we will have to have BORIS standing by with a barrel of good stuff from Our Place.
I agree with you on the UK civilian honours system, nowadays it is, IMHO, become a irreleverence which is a shame for the TRULLY great men and women that have been honoured. But who knows my opionion might change if I were to be knighted for "Service to the profits of the brewery owners"
Many thanks for the London & North Eastern Railway Blast from the Past. I still can't believe that the LNER and the LMS were co-operating in 1933, I wonder if there was a Brit-Rail Pass equivelent at the time.
By an Our Place coincedence the Railway Magazine are doing a LNER special this month and it should be out when I get there. I shall have to remember to bring one back.
Much appriciate the good wishes on our trip. I hope I will be able to call in the bar while over there.
Good wishes on your trip to Canada and LARS and BKs trips away. No doubt there be lots of great posts to catch up on when I get back.
Well LEON let me get a round for ALL the regulars, and dont forget the dart practise.
PETE.
Hiya boys-before get down to business ,just wanted to get my name down for the darts tourney-my underarm delivery is known and feared throughout the district (as is my 12 pace run up overarm bowls technique) and would be honoured to represent the house-I feel CM3 is without doubt the man to cover the event for the MENTOR GAZETTE
right,back directly,nick
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