Evening all-confusion abounds it would seem--lets all hear it for those clever Kalmbach people who just couldn`t leave well enough alone.......................................................................................................................................................
What-no applause ???
Right,Leon-set the boys up with whatever whilst I backtrack a bit and catch up on what needs commenting on
back in a bit,nick
Guten Tag allerseits!
Ruth, take a break - I'll watch things for about an hour . . .
The monsoon season is upon us as the rains have arrived! Had a few errands to run this AM and got thoroughly drenched running in and out of the assorted places I had to visit. Accomplished some things positive, I suppose - got my annual flu shot (but now I'll come down with pneumonia! <grin>) - won a "battle" with my Dentist's billing department <yay!> - and just made it to the Post Office in time to drop off some mail other than routine.
For whatever the reason, I withheld a letter addressed to the CEO of VIA Rail regarding the situation with that ten dollar fee for mailing me my rail tix. Upon arriving home and checking the morning Email, there it was - a long awaited reply from VIA Rail's customer service. Apologies all 'round from them and a refund of the charge is underway! Must be living right these days (daze) - hope it continues through the trip up and back from Gaspe!
Great to have BK back with us and hope the Forums and/or 'puter problems are only temporary. We've just finished a long sad experience with Rob and his connectivty issues with the Forums, now you too. <arggggggggggghhhhhh> Then to add insult to injury, we find that DL cannot see some of the Pix provided by Nick 'n Moi. <double arggggggghhhhhhhh>
DL - okay, if you see the Pix of "Our" Place at the bottom of my Posts - that's a RailImages hosted site. Hmmmmmm. The way to find out is to do a "right click" on any Pix you choose - then go to "Properities" - find the URL and see what site is hosting the photo. If you cannot see anything at all from PhotoBucket - then I'd say the "issue" is between your 'puter and PhotoBucket. By the by - did that URL I provided come through for you You should have seen a Budd Park car and the Canadian VIA Rail consist.
CM3 - the night boat to Albany would have been just fine, HOWEVER, that's NOT where the "honey's" resided! <grin> Don't recall much about Oswego - after all, how much of anything can one see when the drifts are nearly as high as a two story house
The Cardinals are indeed only 2 games from the World Series - but when it's all said and done, who recalls the team that "almost" did this or that No one should ever side bet my sports picks. I never bet with my heart, and try my level best to take in all aspects of the "chances." Seems to me the Cardinals are a Jekyl 'n Hyde ball club, one just never knows which one is gonna take the field. The Mets on the other hand - well, they should be favored.
Detroit - well I'll root for them if they face off against the Mets. Why? Jim Leland, plain 'n simple. I like the guy and like what he and his coaches did for that team. Most impressive performances by those on and off the field.
Good to see ya Rob, both here and on "my other Thread!" Too bad we didn't know DL before our last Rendezvous, eh Sounds like a winnAH to me! By the by - thanx for the Keiths (you bought! <grin>)! Comments about the Forum glitches: your guess is as good as mine, Mate! This stuff is indeed a mess . . .
Noticed that the Niagara area in Ontario has experienced not only a freakish snow storm the other day, but has been without power in many places ever since. Not good. This old world is surely turning upside down insofar as the weather patterns have been concerned over recent years.
Okay - I'm off to read that Epistle from DL!
Auf Wiedersehen!
Tom
SPECIAL for DL in the UK
An Email is en route regarding your Post on the Nightstar (Chunnel Chuggers) . . . .
Having a bit of difficulty navigating it in present form. (Also forgive me for incorrectly referring to the cars as Nighthawk - have something else on my mind!).
Thanx for putting it all together for us - I copied it and then put it into a word processor document, where reading is far easier.
back BK!!
Good Morning Captain Tom and fellow sophisticates!
With Oktoberfest well entrenched, I make my return to the Tavern by the Tracks! Ruth, a round for the gentlemen and for me, a large mug of steaming hot coffee with just a "splash" to make it interesting. And yes, I will have a #3 - over easy - if you please. Boris is that really YOU Good grief, man - I had no idea they made garments quite like THAT! <yikes>
What a circus these last several days have been with reference to trying to log onto this forum. Absolutely ridiculous and I have no idea what went wrong or how I finally managed to gain access this morning. We have been back in our mountain retreat since Thursday last and I began my attempts to connect the following morning. No luck. Just could not get my identification and password to gain acceptance. Now that I am back on board, I have found that certain pages will not load at all. Not being one to <expletive> online - I shall go out back for a moment and <vent>
There now, I do feel a bit better off . . .
We had an enjoyable visit with Lydias family and friends over the Thanksgiving holiday. Alberta is a lovely place - especially where there are mountains (my preference) and as the economy soars, social and demographic change will rapidly increase. That is a bit sad, as I am one who once the anchor has been dropped (so to speak) prefers to remain "put." Time will tell the story, as it always does.
Fortunately, I was able to view the photos from yesterday and am impressed with all of the offerings. Especially enjoyed that link provided by Sir Eric (belated welcome back, by the way!) and hope to find your "report" of the trip to Sweden on the back pages - probably sitting in one that I cannot access at the moment. <grrrrrrr> Captain Tom, those are wonderful photos of your 2002-03 rail journey across Canada. Hopefully you will provide us with more as the westward progress continues.
Never grow weary of the traction material and that from Sirs Doug and Rob is excellent, as are those Urls from Sir DL in the UK. Also, never would have guessed the interurbans were models. Now that guy KNOWS how to do it! Surely fooled me. A rather unfair question, however - and you Sir should have been tweeted for misleading us!
I have gathered that the Darts Challenge is set - although much of the background material is missing - also on those pages I cannot access, I presume. I used to engage in those activities from time to time and was a fair hand at it. Never took on challengers after I had spent time at the firing range, for by then, my concentration and steadiness of hand had been taxed to the limit. Good luck to all who are participating and I too look forward to the reports of each match.
Sir Lars, wherever you may be, I have received your e-mail (plural) and decided that by the time I read them, no reply from me was necessary. I do wish the best for you and your family and am sure that Captain Tom and the guys will keep the fires burning here for you whenever it is you find your way back.
Captain Tom, you should be just about ready to embark upon your Quebec travels. Wish you the best, in case I cannot reconnect or some other situation arises to keep me offline. I look forward to your photos and of course write up on the trip to Gaspe.
Just picked up on that rather long submission from DL in the UK, something I will surely read. However, on my screen, it appears the lines of text are too wide for the forum standards and therefore one has to go to the bottom of the post in order to move it to the right for continuation. Oh, these forums.
I seem to be experiencing some comptuer problems, or perhaps they are more with the connectivity, as I have had to reboot twice since this message was begun. Fortunately, I use my word processor program thereby eliminating the total loss otherwise experienced when things go "haywire."
Enjoy the week, gents!
BK in Alberta, Canada's beautiful high mountain country!
Hi Tom and crew - any chance of a lecture slot today as I've prepared my Chugger Saga? Drinks are on me for anyone interested in listening. Just on the pics - yes can see Our Place at the foot of your post everytime - I assume that is your Corvette parked outside but correct me if I'm wrong.
If a story of poor decison making and shenanigans, missed opportunities and railroad tragedy is not your style leave me in the corner, for this is a LONG POST, but hope all assembled don't mind me setting it out for anyone who is interested. I re wrote this due to losing my text first time round so I hope it still makes sense. Anyway - here we are. A monday lecture slot - doesn't need to be a traditon but i feel the hospitaliy round these parts will excuse me (apologies to anyone who gets too bored!)
In this contribution I’ll refer to the VIA rail chugger cars as ‘Nightstar Stock’ – as this was the name they were built under in the UK and is used in some of the material I have dug out from various places – mostly UK govt papers on the web.
Hopefully this ‘lecture’ will be of interest to those of you who have followed the conversation Tom and I have had about riding these cars. Basically I think we agree that these are good European cars – and this is where they should be running – In Europe (UK and mainland) – where they were designed. They are clearly no great substitute for traditional North American designed and built stock – but my personal view is that if you want to ride a night or day train in Canada they are acceptable given the circumstances. Enough of the debate – lets look at the history.
Draw you chairs around, stoke up the fire - on with the talk (beware there is politics here, but I’ve tried to confine it to the actions of politicians, not my political opinion):
I promised to dig out some information because we had wondered about who took the hit when the cars were sold to VIA at a nock down price. Although they were privately owned I was sure it was the UK taxpayer that took the hit. I’m now convinced of this and what follows is why.
To start off with you have to go back to the discussion to build the Tunnel. The then Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher made much of the fact that private enterprise was going to build it with no state subsidy. However, this was never realistic (and the tunnel needed high speed links either side to join the network anyway) and fairly early on it was clear the taxpayer was going to pay for those links. That decision had to be got through the UK Parliament and the way that happened (in the late 1980s I think) was to promise Members of Parliament (MPs) that the tunnel would bring benefits to all the regions and this is why they should vote to support it.
That benefit would take the form of trains running from the UK regions (inc Scotland and Wales) during the day and overnight. The state owned British Rail (BR) spelt out the details of those trains which would be a variant of the Eurostar sets that run London / Paris / Brussels (so called ‘Regional Eurostar’ sets), and a fleet of night trains with both reclining seats and sleeping cars (so called ‘Nightstar’ trains). These required heavy power requirements for the modern services aboard and would have toilets and showers in the rooms (a departure from previous British sleeper car practice where the short journey distances make having showers on board impractical in the design of sleeper cars used on other routes (the BR Mark 3 Sleeper – built in the early 1980s, prior to that the next oldest generation of UK sleeper cars were built in the 1950s and early 1960s - The BR Mark 1 Sleeper).
Orders for these cars were placed by the then state owned BR, but delays in procurement meant the cars were not really under construction until after BR as an organisation had been destroyed for sale to the private sector. The international services did not fit well in the privatised structure since they required heavy subsidy to build the high speed link to London. However, given the pro privatisation policy of the then Conservative John Major led Govt it was necessary to get a private consortium together to take that job on (it would not have looked good ideologically for the private sector to get all of BR, but the bit getting the most modern high speed link to still be owned by the state).
SO – to give the private sector the incentive to build the line all the relevant international train assets were GIVEN, as I understand it, to the private consortium (called London and Continental Rail Services or LCR) in return for a promise to build the London – Tunnel high speed link. SO THEY GOT GIVEN:
· A whole load of Eurostar high speed trains
· A load of part completed ‘nighstar’ cars and relevant locomotives
· A massive chunk of ready to develop real estate in London (the so called Kings Cross Railways Lands)
· St Pancras Station (the proposed international terminal in central London)
· Some sort of guarantee that the taxpayer could underwrite things even if things went belly up
This is the kind of risk taking investment the UK private sector like when it does a deal with government – you’d think they could not lose.
HOWEVER – the income stream was to come from hopelessly over optimistic ticket sales on the London / Paris / Brussels routes – which still lose money even now. So pretty soon the business plan went badly wrong and the high speed link looked like it might never happen.
Now, you North American students of business might think – well the investor loses their shirt – we live and learn. Not so here. The project had become something of a symbol of national prestige (after all the French link was long built using state funds and it was embarrassing that you came out of the tunnel from France at about 180mph then dropped to 60mph for the final 70 miles to London – it made the UK look like a second class nation).
By now the Labour (Tony Blair) Government were in power. They had to pick up the pieces. They renegotiated the deal to build the link and got consultants in to assess the business case for the Regional day trains – the consultants reckoned the market for regional day trains was not good (low cost airlines and the internet had entered the fray since the original 1980s BR decision to go with this), they recommended the ‘slots’ in the timetable were ‘sold’ for other uses and the regional units used for other purposes. This was seen as quite a cop out at the time as people had hoped for regional services, they knew the trains existed, and parliamentarians had been promised Regional Benefits back in the late 80s. Most of the fuss was about these services. It was relatively easy to pull out because the original BR proposal did not assume the services would require heavy subsidy – so they were not promised ‘at any cost’.
The ‘Nightstar’ services were more shadowy, only enthusiasts really knew much about them, no one had really seen them, there was no publicity for the services as yet. The decision was taken to slash these services without, as far as I can see, even a consultant’s examination of their business case. What was left of the contract was completed and they were eventually sold to VIA on the quiet (as you all know).
What follows is a selection of links and extracts from material I’ve found on the web – makes interesting reading I think. I’ve tried to extract pertinent stuff to save readers trawling the whole documents on the web, but you may want to do that for yourself.
One of the best Histories of the project I could find is here, written by John Legg circa 2000 and I’ve reproduced the text because it is clearly presented and interesting:
http://www.btinternet.com/~ucrs/ucrs/mprs/mprs212-0.html
The European sleeping car services were to be formed from a fleet of 139 cars to be leased and operated by European Night Services Ltd (ENSL). ENSL was a jointly owned by Eurostar (UK) of Britain, Deutsche Bundesbahn (DB) of Germany, Nederlandse Spoorwegen (NS) of the Netherlands and SNCF of France. Although some of the night trains were to run through Belgium, they were not one of the partners in the project.
Towards the end of 1990 an advertisement appeared asking for bid for the construction of around 200 cars for use on overnight trains between the UK and Europe via the Channel Tunnel. The outline specification for the cars called for them to be to the British Railways C3 loading gauge, be 23 metres long, be capable of running at 200 km/h (125 mph), have an 85% availability and to run a maximum of 320,000 km (199,625 miles) per year over an operating life of thirty years. The sleeping cars would have four compartments with en suite toilet and shower and eight compartments with wash basin only. The seated cars would have fifty to sixty reclining seats. The service vehicle would have a lounge area, catering facilities, staff accommodation and luggage area. The advertisement called for the first set to be delivered in December 1992. Each set would be made up of two sub-sets of six, seven or eight cars.
After several extensions to the tender expiry date at the request of British Railways, the preferred bidder for contract was announced as Metropolitan-Cammell on 4 February 1992. The contract would be for 139 cars and be worth around £110 million. The contract called for the first set to be delivered in July 1994 with the order complete in June 1995. However the official signing of the order was stopped by European Commissioner Leon Britten on the grounds that the deal between the consortium members was anticompetitive. To minimize the delay in deliver of the first set caused by the hold, Metropolitan-Cammell was allocated funds so design work could start. However these soon ran out and work stopped. After representations from the consortium members qualified approval was given on 7 July 1992 and the contract was signed. The delay in signing the contract now put the delivery of the first set in late 1994 or early 1995.
The 139 cars of the order broke down into 47 Seated Cars, 72 Sleeper Cars and 20 Service Vehicles. The cars would be formed into nine 7-car sub-sets and nine 8-car sub-sets with two Seated Cars and two Service Vehicles as spares. The Seated Cars have 50 reclining seats (12 smoking, 38 non-smoking), the Sleeper Cars have 20 beds in 10 cabins and the Service Vehicles have 15 non-smoking bench-style seats in a lounge area and a large two bed cabin suitable for wheelchairs. Of the ten cabins in the Sleeping Cars, six will have en suite shower and toilet and four with have en suite toilet and wash basin only. All cars are fully air-conditioned with power operated doors.
The projected service pattern is: London - Amsterdam via Brussels, London-Cologne via Brussels, London-Dortmund and Frankfurt via Brussels (trains will split/combine at Aix-la-Chapelle), Plymouth-Brussels (sub-set), Swansea-Paris and Glasgow to Brussels and Paris (trains will spit/combine at London Kensington Olympia with Plymouth and Swansea sub-sets). Between Glasgow, London and the Channel Tunnel the trains will be hauled by a single Class 92 electric locomotive. For the journey through the Channel Tunnel a second Class 92 will be attached to the rear of the train in case of an emergency. Once in France the Class 92 locomotives will be detached and SNCF electric locomotives will take over. The services to/from Plymouth and Swansea will be diesel hauled to/from London. In Britain the London night service trains will be maintained at North Pole International. The sets for Glasgow and Plymouth will be serviced at local facilities but the Swansea sets will have to return to North Pole International for servicing. All sets will make regular maintenance visits to North Pole International.
Off the forty-six Class 92 locomotives on order, seven will be for overnight services, thirty for freight services and nine will go to French operator SNCF. The first locomotive will be delivered in 1993.
During 1993 the proposed Cologne services are dropped from the schedule.
To provide the diesel haulage between London and Swansea and London and Plymouth twelve Class 37/5 diesel-electric locomotives are chosen for refurbishment and modification to provide the haulage. They will operate in pairs with a generator car between them to provide the HEP for the trains. They will also provide standby power when it is necessary to turn of the power on the electrified lines. They will classified as Class 37/6 with modifications including re-gearing for 145 km/k (90 mph) running, pass-through HEP connectors and control panels in the cabs to monitor and control the generator car.
During 1995 it is decided to drop Brussels as a destination for the 'beyond London' services and add a new service from Manchester. All 'beyond London' services will now be concentrated on Paris.
In April 1995 it is announced that due to problems with a sub-contractor the delivery of the first sub-sets are now six months behind schedule and services are now expected to start sometime in early 1996. It is also revealed that the infrastructure work required to run the trains to Glasgow and Manchester is behind schedule and that the HEP load may be higher than the Class 92 locomotives can provide when running on the 750V DC lines between London and the Channel Tunnel. If an assisting locomotive is required it will most probably be a Class 73/1. By late 1995 the start of service is put back to late 1996.
In early 1996 Class 37/6 37604, Class 73/1 73126 and Class 92 92018 are at Metropolitan-Cammell for compatibility testing with the cars. Initial test will be static only.
By April 1996 the project is being reported as 18-months behind schedule but it has been established that a single Class 92 will be able to handle the HEP requirement of trains on 750V DC. Three completed cars, one of each type, are sent to Vienna for climatic testing. Once the cars return in mid-May from testing the first sub-set should be complete in June 1996. The cars return in mid-May but the first sub-set is not completed until early July 1996. The first sub-set is hauled away from the factory in the early hours of 13 July 1996 by Class 37/6 locomotives 37609 and 37610 with a generator car between them. The sub-set returns to the factory on 22 July 1996. This is seven-car sub-set 1 with an additional intermediate Sleeper Car to make it eight cars.
The second sub-set is accepted for testing in mid-September 1996. This is seven-car sub-set 2 with the spare intermediate Seated Car to make it eight cars. The two sub-sets are joined and hauled to Dollands Moor by Class 37/6 locomotives 37609 and 37610 with a generator car between them for two days of testing through the Channel Tunnel. For the Channel Tunnel tests the train is top-and-tailed by Class 92 92032 and 92039.
Eurostar (UK) is taken over by London and Continental Railway (LCR) in October 1996 as a result of the British Railways privatization and an intensive review of services is started.
By April 1997 the project is now two years behind schedule and with a diminishing market and rising costs the four partners are considering cutting their losses and abandoning the project. If the project continues the earliest start date is seen as summer 1999.
With nothing for them to do sub-sets are being taken to MoD Kineton for secure storage on completion. Sub-set 3 moves on 17 April 1997 and sub-sets 5 and 4 follow on 29 May 1997 and 6 June 1997 respectively. One of the end cars on sub-set 5 is replaced by the spare for the journey.
Problems that exist are a HEP requirement so high for a fully loaded 16-car train that no SNCF locomotive currently available can handle the load on its own and will require double-heading. The only new locomotives ordered than can supply the demand on their own are the SNCF B-B 36000 'Aystrit' locomotives. However the first of these locomotives will not be available until May 1997 and delivery will only be at a rate of one per month thereafter.
With the market for the 'beyond London' services all but disappeared the partners are looking to abandon these services and expand the London services to destinations such as Basle, Zurich and Berlin. The London-Frankfurt service is also being considered for abandonment. Other changes being considered are conversion of some of the Seated Cars into couchette cars following the low take-up of seating on overnight trains in the rest of Europe.
With testing having stopped test sub-sets 1 and 2 are washed and have their tyres turned at North Pole International depot before heading to MoD Kineton on 26 June 1997 to join the others.
The cancellation of 'beyond London' services is confirmed on 9 July 1999. This follows a nine-month intensive review of services undertaken by LCR. Cancellation of the London services follows soon after and ownership of the cars reverts to Alstom (now the owner of Metropolitan-Cammell) and the complete and incomplete cars not already in secure storage are moved to secure storage, mainly at MoD Kineton.
With there now being little work left for the twelve Class 37/6 locomotives Eurostar (UK) sells six of them (37607-612) to freight operator Direct Rail Services (DRS). However they decide to retain the five generator vans and the seven Class 92 locomotives. Although Eurostar (UK) has no direct use for the Class 92 locomotives they will remain in service with freight operator EWS alongside their own thirty Class 92 locomotives and the nine owned by French operator SNCF.
ScotRail considers using some of the redundant Sleeper Cars for Anglo-Scottish sleeper services but drops the idea in favour of refurbishment of the current stock. The cars are too heavy and would require considerable work to make them compatible with existing stock. Other British and European operators have shown some interest but the weight, high HEP requirement and the need to extensively modify them to suit the prospective operator's needs has so far meant there have been no takers. Alstom is still open to any serious offers for these cars and if they can't sell them they will eventually be scrapped.
Three cars are shipped to VIA Rail for evaluation in May 2000. The cars were moved from Alstom at Washwood Heath to Newport Docks by road where they were loaded onto the MV Fairload after the new JT42-HS locomotives 67023, 67024, 67025 and 67026 for EWS had been unloaded. The MV Fairload departed Newport, UK, on 25 May 2000 and arrived Halifax, NS, on 5 June 2000. The cars shipped are Seated Car - Intermediate 61 19 20-90 029-1, Sleeper Car - Intermediate 61 19 70-90 029-0, and Service Vehicle (Intermediate) 61 19 89-90 003-4. The cars were unloaded onto Canadian National flatcars 639869, 639934 and 668214 on 6 June 2000 and moved to Montréal where they arrived at Pointe Saint-Charles on 14 June 2000.
By July 2000 Eurostar (UK) has placed the five generator vans and seven Class 92 locomotives up for sale. Domestic operator ScotRail is thought to be interested in the generator vans for use on its Anglo-Scottish sleeper services on the non-electrified line north of Edinburgh to allow more flexibility in assigning locomotives to haul these trains. ScotRail would need to make extensive electrical and mechanical modifications to make these cars compatible with the domestic sleeper cars. As EWS is already using the seven Class 92 locomotives alongside its own it is the most likely buyer for the Class 92 locomotives but is showing no interest at present.
On 15 December 2000 VIA issued a press release confirming that it has placed an order with Alsthom for the supply of the 139 'Nightstar' cars. According to the press release VIA plans to use them on additional Quebec City-Windsor Corridor trains and to enhance Toronto-Montréal, Toronto-Vancouver and Montréal-Halifax/Gaspé overnight trains.
The delivery of the cars to Canada started with five cars departing Newport, UK, on 5 February aboard the MV Jumbo Challenger. The cars arrived in Canada at Halifax, NS, on 20 February where they were loaded on 21 February onto flatcars. After inspection they were moved to Montréal by Canadian National. Once in Montréal these cars were used to develop the conversion plans for the remaining cars. The next deliveries were shipping containers loaded with all the parts from the unfinished cars.
On 12 October the MV Marinus Green of Rotterdam was in Newport Docks, Wales, UK, loading cars. Reports are there were around thirty cars on site.
INSERT ENDS
This page is the Executive Summary of the report commissioned by the UK DfT which sealed the prospects of Regional Eurostar services. The full report has plenty of stuff – but this was the basis of the decision to drop the commitment to regional through services.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_railways/documents/page/dft_railways_504359-03.hcsp
A Committee of Parliament scrutinises the executive (these committees have little in the way of ‘bite’ but are often successful in holding the Executive to account if nothing else – examined this whole issues in 1998-99 and their report is here.
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm199899/cmselect/cmenvtra/89/8902.htm
They made some hard hitting points which are reproduced here:
INSERT STARTS:
Our principal conclusions and recommendations are as follows:
(a) The regions have been cheated. The acquiescence of Members of Parliament to the Channel Tunnel Act 1987 depended on the provision of regional services. We do not understand why the Government has not conducted research into the economic and social impact on the regions both that the Channel Tunnel has had, and that regional Eurostar services would have (paragraph 3).
(b) It is apparent that there are no significant technical obstacles to operating regional Eurostar services on the West Coast Main Line and the East Coast Main Line by early 2000. All seven regional train sets could then be ready for use, the train paths are already cleared, and the necessary modifications to the infrastructure on both lines should have been completed. However, we expect those conducting the Government's review of regional Eurostar services to confirm our assessment of the matter (paragraph 15).
(i) Nevertheless, we recommend that the Government should as part of its review examine the possibility of regional Eurostar services carrying domestic as well as international passengers. In doing so, it should assess what extra revenue might be brought in by domestic passengers, how security could be maintained on the trains, and at what cost. We do not accept that the obstacles to maintaining security are insurmountable. The review should also consider the effect of competition from regional Eurostars on existing services, and the attitude of the regulatory authorities as well as the companies potentially affected (paragraph 30).
(l) We recommend that, above all, the Government's review should be conducted against the background of the promise of regional Eurostar services implicit in Section 40 of the Channel Tunnel Act 1987, and the investment of £320 million, by taxpayers across the country, already made towards providing such services. Regional Eurostars should operate, otherwise the regions will continue to be short-changed.
Rather interestingly – and surprisingly – this issue reared its head in the UK parliament as recently as July 2006 when the Conservative transport spokesman – Chris Grayling (now in Opposition) asked two questions which I have pasted below from the official record. Quite why he is asking this now – when the decisions to build them was taken when the nationalised BR was under the control of his Conservative Government is not clear! (Derek Twigg is the Government (Labour) Minister with the railways brief at the moment.
From the Hansard Record – Starts:
25 July 2006 : Column 1300W
Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport who received the revenue from the sale to Canada of Nightstar rolling stock; and if he will make a statement. [82437]
Derek Twigg: The proceeds from the sale were credited to London and Continental Railways (LCR)
Chris Grayling: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport how much was spent from public funds on the manufacture of Nightstar rolling stock; and if he will make a statement. [81628]
Derek Twigg: The order for Nightstar stock was placed in 1992 by European night services, a consortium of European railway operators, which included British Rail.
The financial consequences of the decision not to proceed with Nightstar services were described by my right hon. Friend the then Secretary of State for the Environment, Transport and the Regions in his statement to the House of 3 June 1998.
ENDS
Finally – worth a look is the statement of 3 June 1998 mentioned above (which incidentally does not answer the question as the above suggests!) That statement was made on the occasion of the Labour Government having to renegotiate the whole contract to build the London – Tunnel high speed link after the whole LCR fiasco collapsed:
The whole statement is here:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199798/cmhansrd/vo980603/debtext/80603-24.htm#80603-24_spmin0
It is quite lengthy so I have extracted a few key points, underlinigns and bold are my own – but follow the link if you want to read the hwole thing.
The Secretary of State for the Environment, Transport and the Regions (Mr. John Prescott): With permission, Madam Speaker, I wish to make a statement on the channel tunnel rail link.
In March 1996, the development agreement to build the channel tunnel rail link was awarded to London and Continental Railways, known as LCR. LCR also took control of the Eurostar service. Its plan was to commence construction in late 1997. The agreement provided for a taxpayer contribution worth £1.8 billion.
When I had the chance to examine the details of the deal put in place by the previous Government, I was appalled. They took the cheapest bid based on over-optimistic forecasts of Eurostar revenue, without even commissioning their own independent forecasts--a failing we have now put right.
The Government were seriously exposed because of the small financial commitment made by the private sector. Furthermore, as a consequence of the previous Government's intention to conceal public subsidy of the channel tunnel financing, Eurostar was hampered by the requirement to pay Eurotunnel for train paths that it was not using. Even this week I was asked to find £100 million to pay for specially designed sleeper trains which do not work, have never been used, and are now lying idle in a field.
The kindest thing that I can say about this whole agreement is that it was flawed from the start. In January of this year, it almost collapsed; the company could not fulfil its contract. At that point, I was faced with a clear choice. I could have abandoned the present contract with LCR and invited new tenders--but that would have meant two years or more of delay, with all the blight and uncertainty that that would have caused. The equivalent of two thirds of the grant would have been spent on Eurostar's debts and continuing losses, with nothing to show for it. Eurostar is losing £150 million a year. If we multiply that by four or five years compensation, it is clear that I would have had to pay an amount almost equivalent to the grant for the project, but would have got nothing in return. Alternatively, I could ask the company to reconsider the financing of the project and come forward with proposals to meet all its original obligations. That was the path I chose.
I explained that LCR had requested an additional £1.2 billion of taxpayers' money, on top of the £1.8 billion already committed. That was unacceptable. I gave LCR one month to come up with new proposals, and subsequently extended that period ultimately to this week. At the end of March, LCR made an improved proposal, but still failed to meet the Government's requirements.
I realise that many hon. Members want an early start to regional services. I can assure the House that LCR remains under an obligation to provide the infrastructure for regional Eurostar services. The trains for those services are currently lying idle. I have therefore asked the consortium to review urgently the feasibility of such services, and to put proposals to me before the end of the year. I shall inform the House of the outcome of that review in due course.
The Government do not intend to offer taxpayers' support without asking for something in return--unlike the previous Administration.
As I said earlier, those extra benefits should not simply balance the additional £140 million of public subsidy. This deal should provide that, taken over the long term, LCR pays a premium to the Government. Under the original plan, the concession for that agreement was 999 years. Eurostar was privatised for ever. The parties have now agreed to reduce the concession to 90 years. In 2086, the railway and the Eurostar service will revert to public ownership, along with the channel tunnel.
There is one more point. I have negotiated a share for the Government in any savings in the construction cost. I have also negotiated a mechanism to prevent any of the parties involved from enjoying excessive windfall gains at the taxpayer's expense.
EXTRACT ENDS
In Conclusion
So here we are in 1996 – what of the future? – the high speed link to the tunnel is on schedule to start operating before too long (2007 I think), A good ten years after the French built their link for less money with less hassle.
There will be no regional services as far as I know, by day or by night, there is now only talk of how convenient St Pancras International Station will be for passengers arriving at the nearby terminus stations of Euston, Kings Cross and St Pancras (where people will have to lug their own baggage to the international trains). In all this time the budget airlines have taken a large share of the market – and built a market share that rail could have built (with overnight travel a key part of that). The only thing that keeps them at bay is the terrorist threat, it would seem (oh, and the dire experience of actually travelling with the discomfort that comes as standard with a low cost air line).
Who is to blame – I leave you to make up your mind.
Sorry for the length of the lecture – hope it was of some interest to those of you interested in these matters. For anyone who has stayed the course - drinks are on me!
DL -UK
Good morning , Ruth and the rest of the assembled crew. I think a #3 and the never ebding thermos of coffee today .
Tom-You guys aren't out of it yet, oh and thanks for clearing up the roster issuesI neglected to mention your photo's yesterday bad me, allow me to purchase you your beverages today for penance.I'm somehow not supprised ( wonder why ) about the odd "fora" glitches as CM3 calls them that you and DL and a few of the rest of us are still experiancing from time to time. One wonders if it's beacause this particular one is so small , and less visited. perhaps the other ones are taking up more server space and our glitches are simply a result of that.
Doug-Sounds like a neat show that you guys went to.Amazing that a stock certificate from teh airline still exists.One would have assumed that most of the original purchasers had long since used theirs to heat their homes.For that price you could have bought 4 of the original ones if the pricng numbers I had seen were correct. If those are models that guy was extremely talented. Wow to only dream of modelling that well.
James-Good show on the pictures liked them alot
DL-Thanks for the tramway museum links.Heather and I had the pleasure of meeting thier chief rail mechanic and his wife over the summer. They were down at our museum and claimed to have thoroughly enjoyed themselves which is of coarse a for us.To get to us the 401 is your best bet.When you do get down as I said let me know, we'll guide you in
CM3-Glad to hear that your family missed that freak storm.Just goes to show that weather is truly fickle.The ski slopes need to be moved to downtown Buffalo I'm glad that you enjoyed the O&Q.
Nick-A wonderfull run of snapshots form you yesterday as well. One question though, is that really a palm tree alive and well in that one picture. If it is how did you manage that in your end of the world.
Rob
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present: coffee, please; round for the house; and $ for the jukebox.
The fora have been fussy this a.m., but here we are.
Note to Our ‘Steamed Proprietor. It’s a three game season for the Cards now – 2 of 3 takes it and winner goes to face the Tigers. Good movie choices as well and thanks for the pictures. Oswego? I know, desperate times call for desperate measures; you probably would have been better taking the Night Boat to Albany (LOL).
James – Thanks for pictures. Was going to mention the purpose and lineage of the B unit you included, but other posters took care of that nicely.
Barndad – Team name list has some good ones, but we’ll leave that up to the throwers extraordinaire to decide what the name will be. Bill Clouser is certainly well-remembered by us old folks. Thanks also for the ticket story. R&LHS’s publications have certainly improved. I went to mtgs when I was living in Boston area and always enjoyed myself.
DL-UK continues his comments re dining on the rails. Too bad you never had breakfast on the Pan American.
Lars – Thanks for the kind words.
Rob – All of the snow missed our folks; they live south of the Lake in ski country which, ironically, got nothing at all. Also thanks for O&Q material.
Nick – Through a glass darkly...I see figures, strange figures, weird figures...Thanks for the pictures and commentary; I especially enjoyed the M&SC item. For what it’s worth, I give higher marks to Boston and Maine, New York Central, and Wabash for F-unit colors. Santa Fe, of course, tops them all.
CV tomorrow – one of my favorites.
Work safe
Guten Morgen allerseits!
Wie ist jeder? Es is OKTOBERFEST! Partei wollen wir!
Cardinals imploded - Mets won! Well, it was fun while it lasted – the cream is supposed to rise to the top, eh Obviously it did! <groan>
Our Lambs of the NFL also lost, which made for an all ‘round poor sports day here in mid-continent USA.
On a brighter note – we had a fine Sunday Photo Posting Day! and about the only criticism I have is that Kalmbach is still messing with the minds of some of our guys (including my own from time-to-time!).
Excellent outpouring yesterday and hopefully we’ll get more of the same next week as our absences continue on through the month . . . . Thanx to all for your contributions with special mention to Eric for that wunnerful URL of his (made especially for us!) – to Doug for two fine montages – to Rob for not letting us down with those fine Posts ‘n Pix – to Nick for two Sunday visits capped off by another full slate of Pix and to James for participating in our Sunday event! to all!!
The rains have arrived ‘round these parts and depending on which one of our “weather birds” we listen to, I should be constructing an ark! Glad the outside work got done over the weekend, as planned . . . Sometimes we live “right.” Unfortunately, Juneau's morning trek has been delayed . . .
Comment for Rob and other curious minds: The number of “imports” on the NY team far outnumber those here in St. Louis – of the active team rosters, NY has 12 and St. Louis 4. So, the “melting pot” that New York City is known as, continues on with players from Venezuela, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico and Mexico on the roster along with those from the U.S.
Glad you enjoyed the Pix, Doug - and that's a sunrise in Edmonton - pretty, eh
Good to see DL kick off the activities this morning! What WON'T DO is this inability to view the Pix from Nick 'n Moi. Now that's a new one to ponder! We both use PhotoBucket, as do others - so one would deduce that if you are able to view PhotoBucket Pix from some of us, you should be able to view 'em from all of us. This just WON'T DO - hmmmmmmmmm.Have you EVER been able to view anything at all from me in the form of picutres How about the picture at the bottom of this screen of "Our" Place
Regarding my railroad advertisements that I put up from time to time - those are ads from assorted sources - some of which have copyright caveats. Therefore, I have typed them from "scratch" and have opted not to scan in the Pix. These are from my personal collection of "stuff," and not from URLs.
The Pix would most certainly enhance their attractiveness and meaning - however, "We takes what we gets!" 'round this joint. Try this URL out and let me know what you get . . . . you should see one of my Pix of VIA Rail's Canadian at Sioux Passage - Glacier Park obs dome:
http://s20.photobucket.com/albums/b222/siberianmo/VIA%20Rail%20trips/?action=view¤t=DSC00336.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch5
Thanx, DL, for the tramway links!
A reminder that tomorrow’s “Theme for the Day!” is the Central Vermont Railway – so let’s see what we can do to provide some meaningful exchanges of info on this “Classic Trains” Thread!
Ruth comes in at 9 AM and Leon at 5 PM – so be sure to spread the wealth and make our cash registers – Tilla ‘n Cashinator – make the sounds I like to hear: KaChing, KaChing!
Boris, serve ‘em all of the “spiked” OJ they can handle!
Tom<
Good morning Tom and everyone else,
Pancake breakfast, coffee and orange juice please.
Tom, I look forward to some pics of the VIA rail diners, have to say though I could not view any of the pics you recently posted from your trip on The Canadian, which is a great shame, and on this theme – I’ve never been able to view any of Nick’s pictures. Despite this pics from James and Rob (and most others) come through loud and clear (nice trolley pics recently Rob – appreciated). Probably a hitch my end but there we are.
Nick – I certainly agree with your comment on prices – read an interesting article in Rail magazine not so long ago which was an operator by operator table of fare increases in the UK for the regulated and unregulated fares since privatisation, matched against inflation for the 10 year period we have now passed – some real shocking rises on some operators (Great Western and Virgin being come to mind as particularly bad offenders).
Rob – Thanks for the information on the trolley museum – when I’m next in Toronto I really would like to try and make it – so nearer the time (could be next summer) I’ll flag it up. I prefer a public transit link but not always so easy in North America I appreciate. I know the 401 as my uncle used to live very close to it in Toronto (near where they have just built the new TTC subway extension) he has recently moved to Don Mills area however. I'm also thinking about a trip on Ontario Northland which looks like an interesting ride to me - anyone else done that?
I enjoyed your post on the Ontario and Quebec – most interesting for sure.
Here is a couple of links you in particular will be interested in Rob, but hope others enjoy too. This streetcar (or Tram) museum is not too far from me and we try to make a visit about once per year. The street car restorations are to the highest standard and a ride in one is absolutely top notch. You can see photos from the fleet index which shows how well done they are – some restored from total wrecks that have been used as garden sheds and the like for 60+ years – a real credit to the staff and volunteers there who do the work.
http://www.tramway.co.uk/
http://www.tramway.co.uk/smx/cms/tramfleet/
Barndad – interesting feed back on the Railroadiana event – look forward to your pics. Which reminds me – not had any of those reproduction nostalgic adverts or menu bills recently – Tom you were posting some before from your collection – any chance of any more scans or text reproductions? Perhaps you are too busy with the Chaleur plans – I can feel the anticipation of the trip in your posts.
By the way, I promised the results of some research on the channel tunnel chugger cars – I prepared most of the post then deleted it myself by accident – typical bad luck but I’ll re do it and get it posted before too long!
Cheerio
DL - UK
Evening gents-a post and run tonight I`m sorry to say-will make full responses tomorrow
Tonights offerings are all expansions on points made R.E MIKE`s URLs on Snowdon
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For the first pair we have:-An early morning service on the 2ft gauge Llanberis Lake rly,laid over the former 4ft gauge Padarn rly-the combination of steam & mist from the lake almost obscures the works train behind. shot taken at Penllyn
Below this,the restored funicular joining the main yards and former cutting sheds at Gilfach Ddu with the first level of the galleries-note loaded & empty slate hutches
Top:-Thomas Bach (formerly Wild Aster ) blt 1904 running round at Gilfach Ddu--she is kept company by Elidir (1889) & Dolbadarn (1922),all more or less identical "quarry Hunslets" and all of which formerly worked the galleries
Lower:-Festiniog rly `double Fairlie` at Portmadoc-included as it was on the same scan,shot the previous day
Top:- the top end of the former yard,note loco shed on left & tunnel leading to further workings
Lower:-work proceeds on the extension from Gilfach Ddu around the head of the lake into Llanberis-right background,the slate museum,R .foreground,Missisnick and (V) small Hannah attempt to give me the slip-just beyond them can be seen the lifted connection between rly and museum
Top:- the station buildings are dwarfed by the old workings behind-much of which have been reclaimed by nature
Lower-track gangs of the world unite !! -museum at rear,skulking family to left
Top:-Beddgelert (Welsh Highland Rly) looking towards Snowdon-If you look carefully,the old right of way is just visible in the trees above the shed and climbing to the right
Lower:-Snowdon ,taken from Cei Llydan on the lake
All four above:- Portmeirion,Clough Williams-Ellis`s Italianate village,just across the bay from Portmadoc (nearest staion-Minffordd,Festiniog & B.R)-all buildings are one third to one quarter full size but the reduction is not immediately apparent-a delightful spot for a visit (the pix fail to do it justice)
Here we have "Chaloner" blt 1877 by de Winton of Caernavon-these vertical boilered beautys were the predecessors of the quarry Hunslets and a number of them worked the Padarn lines-poss. inc. this one,but not known for sure
She is normally found on the Leighton Buzzard Lt rly in Bedfordshire but is seen here at a gala at Newcastle Emlyn,not far from me
A diesel medley for dessert -C/W from top-Haverfordwest,Aberystwyth,Stogumber (?) West Somerset rly & Swansea
Right chaps,early night for me (don`t laugh-it happens once in a while..) take care,speak tomorrow
nick
Howdy hi again folks, and it looks like we've had a great photo day to me! Looks like we've got more movies to watch, and some great pix from Tom. Really purty scenery sir. Especially the sunset in Edmonton. Enjoyed Rob's many traction pix as well. I surely love to see preserved railroad cars! Nice pix as well from James. I'm not able to get inside modern cabs and equipment, and they're most impressive. Great contribution from you as well today.
And now ...for the answer to my question from earlier today. I have to admit to being bad. The pictures were not of prototypes. I wanted to see if I would get caught showing models!
I got them from the August 1959 edition of Model Railroader. All of the traction scenes show ¼” scale models built by Bill Clouser of St. Louis. The setting for the scenes is a 15” X 50”, four-track wide shop area Bill built especially for photographing his finished models. The background is a full size replica of the St. Louis Public Service Co.’s shop wall, were incidentally, the prototype line used to photograph all its equipment. Bill’s shop wall is illustration board covered with Holgate & Reynolds plastic brick material, painted and aged. This special setting is for photography only and is not a part of Bill’s traction layout. It is portable and may be carried outdoors into sunlight – which accounts for the superb lighting of Bill’s photos. While Bill’s line is ¼” scale, it is not “O” gauge. He uses a closer-to-scale track gauge of 1 3/16” instead of the more common 1 ¼” track gauge. And he uses scale flanges, and in shop area, HO rail, hence the super realism of wheels and track in photos. Yes, the scale figures are practical and Bill’s models do operate with beautiful smoothness.
Must be nice to have models so outstanding that they deserve their own layout just for photography!
I did something new today. My wife and I attended a Railroadiana. She happened to see a scrapbook there that someone had made, mostly consisting of old Southern Railway Magazines (Ties). I got the whole book for $5! I also purchased several metal RR signs, which I'll be photographing for ya'll later. I happened to locate a stock certificate for the Chicago New York Electric Air Line (remember the stories from Rob and myself about six weeks ago?), but the cost was $45, and I didn't buy it. I'd rather have a copy of the Air Line News, which was the lines publication for their stockholders, but did not see any of that. I also picked-up some interesting information from a Wabash Historical Society, and I'll be sharing info on them as well.
That's it for my Sunday, and have a great evening!
G-day captain Tom and all.
I'm afraid I can't order anything today but I will tomorrow.
Tom, I got your message and I understand. I will make sure to be here on those days. And I will start ordering something while I'm at it. Anyway.. The Hunt for the Red October is an excellent movie. I watched it about 2 years ago for the first time and I thought it was great.
Barndad- Pics are some of my favorite ways to explain things. I give you a pick and an explanation about it. My next few here will be interesting.
Nick- An armored Pay rollcar!!! Thats funny. It is a different locomotive, and I have a little info coming up on it.
Rob- I will deffinently be saving the pics. I have learned now not to post them all the time and what days they should be posted. But I have a string of pix today.
Eric-I have some info on that locomotive. These locomotives were built from B-units for the rocky mountain rocket. There were only two of them. #s 750 and 751. The one pictured was #751. Later on, they had HEP installed for commuter service. One of the Rocks ideas for trying to interest the public in taking the train. I think. And maybe it was an idea for just an idea. I don't really know.
Talking about passenger service: these were some of the newer paint schemes the Milwaukee road used before they went out of business in 1981. This commuter train was taken 6 years before then in 1975. I believe the idea behind this was to try and pull in as much business as possible.
Now this one is interesting. ( Don't mind the snow outside) This is inside a SD60M in the Moutains of Montana. Notice the Raillink units sitting outside the train. The brandnew SD70ACe is looking sharp.
I maybe wrong but I thought the whole purpose of GE was to have a better exhaust emition than that of EMDs. By the looks of it those EMDs are putting out less. Must be another cyclinder problem or two causing the rukis. Anyway nice shot, especially with Sd40s leading the way.
Happy railroading!
James
Okay one more batch of traction shots for this week. Since Nick hit us with a shot of MS&C equipment here's a few more for everyone to enjoy. Also my Classic Juice #3 from page 131 will give everyone a general rundown on the MS&C as well.
Here's a neat montage of shots on MS&C Combine 107 the first shots from 1939 the second from 1947 both from the OERHA collection, the last is from 2005 at the museum as shot by myself.
The next two shots are again from the OERHA collection Al patterson the shooter.The first one is MSC car # 306 taken just before the line was abandonned in 1956. The second is one of the MS&C's heavy snowsweepers parked at the St lambert Carhouse in 1953
Enjoy Rob
Okay a few traction shots for everyone's viewing enjoyment.
This shot is Toronto Civic 55 and Toronto Railway Company 1326 comming down hwy 7 to the museum in 1955 our first two cars comming home. Photo by Bob Sandusky OERHA member #4 photo from the OERHA archives.
Lake Erie and Northern car 622 at Brantford Station 1952 from OERHA collection photographer unknown
Large Peter Witt 2424 leaving Russell carhouse in 1954 Al Patterson photo from OERHA collection
Large Peter Witt 2424 at the HCRY in 1993 Photo by me !
Good afternoon gentlemen. Just popping in to make sure that H&H and Copperkettle got all the brunch parifinalia put away and cleaned up for next week.I nice spat of phoot's today folks good to see things comming in from several fronts
Tom-Good show on your team of imports beating those New York imports If all goes well and you pick a couple more up you can play the Michigan imports for the big tamaliI'll dunk once Lars reads this post. A fine choice for your final encore for a few weeks. Much like my experiance with the forum recently you will likley never get the final word on that mystery illness.Good movie picks for this week as well,both features were great movies and reside in the trolleyboy collection
I'm always happy to provide the material. I know that those of us who come in regularly and give a rats patoot do read and appreciate them. Besides from the number of hits we get,I'm sure that others are reading and just not participating. Thier loss.I'll definatly pop by the other thread with some traction shots as well. Who knows who else might be swinging from the trolley wire eh
Doug-great article on the IT and it's vehicles. loved the pictures as well. For me to hazzard a guess as to when they were taken it's hard to say. With modern B/W film those could be very resent or from the 50's. We shall wait to get the answer from you.
Nick-That was a strange combination of fluids wasn't it. perhaps it was my eveil twin Rodger I'm glad to hear that no furnature was broken during Hanna's sugar induced frenzy Imagine the repercussions of Boris eating something like that , there would be no stopping him . Great photo's today as well. Loved the RS10's waiting at the station beside the MS&C cars. If you ever get over here again, a stop to ride on MS&C 107 at the museum is a must . I'm of two minds on the F unit painy scheme. You are right that is a wonderfull paintjob, but I am partial to CP's maroon and grey script scheme. Then there is NYC's ligthening stripe and .....
Eric-Loved the photo's,at least with some outside help we can still see them and enjoy them To your question about those regulations, they were created in the 1890's when alot of the steet railways didn't rail bond grounds into the track. they instead used the ground as the completer of the circut so rewiring could be a hairy ( litterally a hair raising ) experiance.
Back in a flash with some photo's.
Even though the bar is CLOSED on Sundays -
We do observe Sunday Photo Posting Day!
Here are a few Pix from the trip described in my ENCORE! Saturday Post (page 411):
Departing Toronto's Union Station in a light rain
Heading north to the Canadian Shield
Scenery in the Shield
VIA Rail's west bound Canadian at Sioux Lookout
New Year's morning in the diner!
Shield scenery through the diner window!
Sunrise in Edmonton
That's it - more Pix on Sunday after next!
Even though the bar is CLOSED on SUNDAYs -
We do host a breakfast - brunch - lunch 'til 2 PM!
If you just want to talk - drop your messages through the mail slot in either set of front doors!
I just gotta say it - Cardinals won! Cardinals won! The Amazin' Mets are amazed, I'd think. So that' s two games they've taken from the boyz from New Yawk (actually the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico and . . . . ) Anyway, the game was one of those 'gems' we baseball fans get to see every now 'n then come the playoffs. Also have to say that the Detroit game was really a great one and ended as only a game like that should - botton of the ninth - score tied - then bam - home run - game over! Tigers won! I'm happy for Jim Leland (Manager) and those who stuck with the Tigers through many recent tough years.
Some rather interesting Pix from the guys on this Sunday - began very early at that! Much appreciated.
Sorry, Doug - only guess I can come up with for that great looking spate of interurbans would be St. Louis. Since I really don't have a "deep" history with either - traction or St. Louis - that's the best I can come up with. Nicely done with the 9 Pix and narratives!
Eric - the difficulties continue, eh Well, I enjoyed your URL and note that Doug provided the 'easy access' version in his Post. Getting back to your photo spread - if you think you are having problems, how about that engineer in the X2 - now THAT's a problem! If you guys wanna know what I'm speaking of - check out Eric's Pix in his URL.
Not really impressed with the design of those LRVs for Phoenix - look rather short and out of symmetry. However, any urban area that has the foresight to embrace light-rail should be commended!
While I wouldn't wager a guess at the rail car on the ferry in one of your Pix - we know who COULD. Alas, 20-fingers Al is a fixture within the Legion of the Lost and perhaps may never fully regain his position at the bar. Anyway, looks like a Milwaukee Road observation car - but that's as far as my limited knowledge takes it . . .
Enjoyed the slide show feature on your URL - something I'd really like to learn how to do. One of these days (daze)! <grin> THANX for the effort in putting all of this together for us.
Guys - check out http://web.mac.com/ericx2000/iWeb/Sunday%20Picts/Sunday%20Pictures.html
it's most definitely worth the time!
Nick - enjoyed your Pix spread too - and you betcha there's "fightin' words" in that claim of top shelf livery for those Fs. Canadian Pacific comes to mind as a great looking paint job - then there's . . . .
Even though the bar at "Our" Place is
CLOSED on SUNDAYs -
NOW PLAYING at the Mentor Village Emporium Theatre!
. . . Sunday, October 15th thru 21st: The Hunt for Red October (1990) Starring: Sean Connery, Alec Baldwin & James Earl Jones – and – Crimson Tide (1995) Starring: Denzel Washington & Gene Hackman. SHORT: The Three Stooges – Goofs and Saddles (1937)
The Hunt for Red October (1990)
PLOT SUMMARY: Sean Connery stars with Alec Baldwin in John McTiernan's blockbuster The Hunt For Red October. Connery plays Marko Ramius, a senior Lithuanian sub captain whose plans to defect are met with strong opposition by his own Soviet navy, and American misconceptions of his intentions. Baldwin plays CIA analyst Jack Ryan, the one man who sees the defection, and must convince most of the American navy he is correct. The action climaxes with an amazing naval battle, but who will win The Hunt for Red October.
from: www.imdb.com
Crimson Tide (1995)
Instability in Russia results in the deployment of the the nuclear submarine "Alabama". Russian rebels have taken over a nuclear missile site and are refueling them for a possible strike against the USA. Tensions run high undersea, when the launch message is received, followed by an incomplete followup. Could the followup message have been to cancel the earlier orders?
SHORT: Goofs and Saddles (1937)
PLOT SUMMARY: Featuring Moe, Larry and Curly Gen. Muster sends his three best scouts - Buffalo Billious (Curly)' Wild Bill Hiccup (Moe) and Just-Plain-Bill (Larry) - to track down the cattle rustlers operating in the area. The Stooges track down Longhorn Pete and' disguised as gamblers' try to find out his plans. The boys get exposed' but manage a spectacular get away and eventually turn the tables on Pete and his gang.
Gen. Muster sends his three best scouts - Buffalo Billious (Curly)' Wild Bill Hiccup (Moe) and Just-Plain-Bill (Larry) - to track down the cattle rustlers operating in the area. The Stooges track down Longhorn Pete and' disguised as gamblers' try to find out his plans. The boys get exposed' but manage a spectacular get away and eventually turn the tables on Pete and his gang.
from: www.threestooges.net
Enjoy!
Good morning everyone …. who darted? Nice to see Rob back in form yesterday with some mighty long posts indeed. Loved reading Tom’s encore again on his good/bad VIA trip. Great to see partner Nick already in with some fine pix, but not so sure I should have tried the piece of ham in the DVD (which did NOT play a three pigs story, and hasn’t played anything since, by the way). Go figure. Here’s your link Eric http://web.mac.com/ericx2000/iWeb/Sunday%20Picts/Sunday%20Pictures.html
Here’s a little something I whipped-up for ya’ll. Be sure to read the question at the end!
The Character of the Interurban
To the once sprawling interurban giant, the Illinois Central Terminal, goes the distinction of having created what many students of traction consider the archtype of the interurban – the equipment, the right-of-way, the character that immediately triggers the imagination to thoughts of bright cars singing across green countryside, of friendly two-man crews, lumbering freight juice jacks, and indeed, a manner of living that came in with the overhead and went out with the auto and the two-lane slab.
That open-platform parlor car, for example. Now there was a way to travel the electric lines in grand style! And it carried a drum sign, too, and doubtless gave the country youngsters a big moment as they stood by the tracks and studied the real meaning of an exotic name like Illmo Limited.
A study of the streetcar and the interurban side by side may help to illustrate that there was a difference. But this difference is now of little importance since both cars will serve on the same line doing the same job at the discretion of the management. Both are museum pieces.
A matching three-car train of ex-Illinois Terminal interurbans will be available to railfan groups. No. 241 will be the power at the head end, looking almost as it did when delivered by ACF in 1908, except for its color. This was one of the last IT cars built with a railroad roof.
United Railways of St, Louis No. 600, restored to its 1918 appearance. Note the Providence fenders and rare DuPont trucks. The 600’s were built in 1903, started service during the 1904 World’s Fair at St. Louis.
Here are the trailer and parlor car of the three-car railfan train. These two were built by the Danville (Illinois) Car Co. in 1910. Now they will provide a nostalgic setting for Sunday afternoon excursions.
No. 1595, a massive, four-truck, Class C freight locomotive, dwarfs the city streetcar beside it. This type of locomotive is used to pull mainline freights of approximately 12 cars. In spite of its length, the 1595 will negotiate tight, 44-ft. radius curves laid in city streets.
The 1595 pushes an empty hopper through the yard enroute to the interchange, interrupting our still life studies of the interurban at home. This shop wall is used as a background for all photos of company equipment and the men in the shop obligingly posed all the equipment here for us.
A closer view of the 234 shows its “Capitol Limited” tailsign. This car has been fitted out as a business car for many years, but will now have little use in this capacity.
Now the platform of the 234 provides only a view of the other cars, but once under way, the view of rolling countryside and scenery will make this the train’s premium spot.
Again we climbed to the top of an adjacent car (watch out for the wire!) to get a better view of the Class C as it moved by. The end platforms swing under the main body, hence its ability to negotiate sharp curves. Class C types replaced two-truck Class B locos in heavy freight service.
Everyone ready for my BIG question?
Where were these photos taken?
Good morning gents-got a man in fixing the central heating boiler so I thought I`d pop in for a quick check on the old place,whilst I`m here lets get sunday pix up and running since Eric has given us a flying start (Eric-will check `em out directly and get back later with comments
One for ROB first-Montreal and Southern Counties trolley line
A delightfully bucolic scene..
For my money,this is (was)the classiest `F` unit livery around .........now that should provoke some debate
Right,off to do a little light pottering around the place,back later
I don`t believe this-in my eagerness to trawl up some pix,I`ve managed to delete my entire evenings submission-thank you god so very,very much.............
Right,O.K boys,from the top.....2,3,4:-TOM-yes,thursdays are a fun night-mostly a social thing with the odd tune thrown in //// H&H are there for there prowess with concealed weapons //// nice memoir of impetuous youth and salutory tale of recent trip-some public health crisis management issues there....//// dillo do everywhere-steps must be taken.........
ROB-Carlsberg & peppermint schnapps ??--who are you and what have you done with the REAL Rob Austin...??? //// small Hannah blurry for several hours after huge sugar fix //// nice hits on O+Q (more questions to follow ) and encores fom you and AL
DOUG-nice `True Crimes ` special
recent reading:- book called "Great lies to tell small children"--3 faves so far..1-wine makes mummy clever, 2-if you put a slice of ham in the DVD player and press start,it plays a short film about pigs 3- And one night the tooth fairy went to Dracula`s castle,she was ever so careful but she scratched her finger on one of his fangs and then SHE TURNED INTO AN EVIL BLOODSUCKING MONSTER WHO WILL FIND YOU WHEREVER YOU HIDE.....night-night,lights out now........
Right,sorry it`s a bit abbreviated but it`s half past late again and it`s the second time of typing......
marvellous steak tonight-excellent plan getting DL-UK into the galley-now there is a man who knows his way around a cream,brandy & cracked peppercorn sauce -will have to look to my laurels here....
take care gents,see you for pix tomorrow (we are back in Snowdonia,with a Canadian diversion)
sleep well,nick
Blast from the Past! ENCORE! Saturday - Blast from the Past! ENCORE! Saturday
from Page 99, Sep 6, 2005 . . ..
Okay - time for MY story about a VIA Rail trip with a and a not-so-happy conclusion. In December of 2002, my wife and I departed Toronto aboard VIA Rail's "Canadian" bound for Vancovuer. Having made the round trip once before, but in May, we were exicited about the prospects of a winter voyage across most of Canada. We were able to book the drawing room suite in the Park Car (Glacier Park) and settled into our seats in the dome as the train pulled out of Toronto's Union Station. The day was rather gloomy, a bit of light rain and sleet hitting the windows as we wound our way through and out of the city. The further north we got, the clearer the skies and by the time we started see evidence of that magnificant Canadian Shield, the skies were blue with some white puffy clouds. Great picture taking with some memorable sights indeed. Now I could continue this dialogue in the style aforementioned - but then it would just drone on and one - for really, the trip WAS fantastic. The snow amounts were far, far less than what we had hoped for - but then again, those of you living in Canada - especially the mountainous regions, know full well what the drought conditions have been like for quite some time. Nevertheless, we were undaunted in our optimism that the trip would hold true to our high expectations - and for the most part it did. On Friday, January 3rd, our train was struck by a rock slide just north of Boston Bar in the Fraser Canyon. Fortunately, this event did not seriously damage the train or harm any people within it. The delay of six hours wound up being a PLUS in that once we resumed our voyage, we got to view some sights that would have otherwise been "voids" to us. For had the train kept to its schedule, we would have passed through that area in darkness. (Same for the eastbound - darkness..........). Saw things that were all new to me (and have been alluded to in my previous posts) - for example, the rock slide 'sheds' that deflect the slides OVER the tracks rather than on to them. Interesting and effective concept indeed. Also the tunnel carved out of the rock - no portals - pretty rugged and functional. Can just imagine the work those people put into building that railroad! Wow. Now - fast forward to the day of departure from Vancouver, Sunday, January 5th. Talk had been heard in the "Silver & Blue" waiting area set aside for bedroom passengers at Pacific Central Station, that the "Cruise Ship Virus" had been detected on the train that had arrived from Toronto that morning. The train, was "quarantined" - not the passengers - and another had to be assembled rather quickly for the eastbound "Canadian" that evening (our triain). Now for those of you who don't know - this particular virus is a real doozy. Once it hits you - expect to be "out of it" for 48 hours, working very well from all 'ends' I might add. It probably is better known as the "Norwalk Virus" to most people who follow these things. It was said that 15 passengers in the coach portion of the morning train had come down with the virus and they were in very poor shape as some were carried from the train. All of this talk didn't bode well for what we had expected to unfold. We board the "new" train - deposited our belongings in the drawing room of the Stathcona Park Car and headed up to the dome to take in the sights of the train departing Vancouver. Just a marvelous way to travel - my wife had a complimentary glass of champagne and I had a local brew - and all was well with the world as we left Vancouver behind us. The next day was a picture taking day indeed. Just to give you one example, check out this photo of Mt. Robson - the tallest mounain in the Canadian Rockies at 12,972 ft/3,953 m. (click to enlarge ......) That should give you an idea of the great sky very conducive to picture taking (and keeping!). Fast forward to the next day as the train pulled into Winnipeg. We noticed all kinds of activity alongside the south side of the tracks as we neared the station. TV cameras, reporters, microphones, et al. When we asked our car attendant what was going on - he indicated that he had no idea, so we let it go at that. We arrived at the station to an announcement that if anyone wanted to stretch their legs now would be the time, but that they would NOT be permitted to reboard until further notice. Hmmmmm - we stayed on board. After about 2 hours of sitting up in the dome,and the train already late for the scheduled departure, we began to ask of the "new" attendant, what was going on. She said there was a "work issue" and that several new crew members refused to board the train. No further elaboration was given. About 2 hours after that - we heard an announcement that the train would be delayed further pending arrival of Health Canada officials. Hmmmmmmm. Fast forward to the bottom line: The virus had stricken a half dozen passengers, one in the bedroom compartment adjacent to ours. We had noticed that all during the trip, the handrails were being constantly wiped by attendants wearing latex gloves and spraying a solution wherever one might be expected to touch ....... That was the only overt indication of preventative measures being taken to safeguard us from this virus. The replacement crew refused to board at Winnipeg until assurances were given that they would not be adversely impacted. That evening - after the train finally left, a total of 6 hours in delay - we had dinner. Within a half hour of that event, I got sick - and did I ever get sick! I'm an "old guy" and have experienced feeling bad in my life - but I assure you, NEVER quite like this. The remainder of the trip to Toronto was spent in the toilet - got to know that rascal "up close and personal" or comatose in bed. Awful experience to say the least. We were met at the station by VIA Rail and Health Canada officials. The latter wanted to take "samples" and the former wanted me to sign something similar to a "release." I provided the sample - but refused the release. We remined on the train for about 45 minutes after everyone else had departed and then we were "cleared" to go. The VIA Rail official arranged for our baggage to be taken to a taxi - put us in it - picked up the tab (for the cab, that is) and sent us on our way to the hotel we had made reservations with. Stayed at the Renaissance in the Sky Dome. Fast forward to today: Haven't heard a word about the incident since and the replies to my inquiries regarding exactly what was done with my "samples" and confirmation from VIA and Helath Canada that this was the "Cruise Ship Virus" have NEVER been addressed. I even provided photo copies of the newspaper accounts of the virus aboard the trains (that earlier train I alluded to, and ours) - but it was if the recipients closed their minds to the facts ......) Case closed. P.S. Am I angry with VIA Rail over this? NO - absolutely NOT. I love those trains and I enjoy the experience. However, I think ineptitude and rudeness on the part of ANY indiviudal can NEVER be excused. So, I will probably always harbor a feeling of ill will directed toward those who should have: (1) Informed the passengers on the train of the sit Happy Railroading! Siberianmo siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "OUR" PLACE - ONE YEAR of talking Classic Trains in an adult environment! Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, October 14, 2006 4:33 PM Guten Tag allerseits! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! ><fright!> He's baaaaaaaaaaaack! Oh, no - he's NOT. That's an ENCORE! from June 22nd, 2006 from 20 Fingers Al - now a member of the Legion of the Lost. <phew> Had me worried there, Rob! Appreciate the "Blast from the Past" (now WHERE did I see that phrase before <grin> - is there nothing that is "safe" from stealing 'round here ) Anyway, wtih Rob back on Satutrdays, it makes this lonesome day a bit more pleasant for Ruth and whoever happens to straggle in to the Tavern by the Tracks! Spent most of this fine day outoors, which is really a treat for me in that I detest hot weather and now that the fall has arrived - ummmmmmm, love it! Worked my aging butt to a frazzle, all joints are in some degree of agony, a hot shower, and my 2nd Coors Light, parked in front of the TV for the Tigers vs Athletics playoff game #4 - Juneau snoozing in the sunshine of the enclosed patio - my bride waiting on me hand 'n foot (yeah, right!) - all's well with the world! This time next week, if all goes well, I'll be enjoying the sights, sounds and thorough enjoyment of VIA Rail's "Chaleur," or at least I surely hope so! The way VIA has handled this reservation of mine and total disinterest in answering my questions, I'm beginning to wonder . . . Nothing or no one stays the same - a tenet of siberianmo that seems to hold true. <groan> Anyway, I doubt that the JOs who handle the "customer service" can screw up what should be a most enjoyable treat for Moi - Montreal's Central Station (Gare Centrale) - the "Chaleur" - the beer! - etc., etc., etc. Can't wait!! As this is my "last" ENCORE! Saturday for awhile, I'll come up with something appropriate to round out the way I feel . . . Nick - Ain't no way you or anyone else is gonna find out "who" that "mystery gal" is! Think about it - I'm 68 - so this is no CHICK by any stretch of the imagination! Lars is playing it coy and hasn't let on . . . so, we'll see what develops! Have to admit that my imagination is running with it . . . . but a gal in "Depends" does very little for me! Oh yeah - your Email was received and thanx for the input!! Rob - many thanx for Posting over on "my other Thread"! Really appreciate that, especially since Lars may not be around on a regular basis, and BK is - well - BK! Anyway, the idea is to try 'n attract some new blood 'round here and the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that I picked the WRONG Forum for this adult bar 'n grill. No matter - we're here and we'll "take what we gets!" Really - appreciate your support and hope you stop by more frequently with some TRACTION Pix! Doug 'n Rob - my "reading assignment" is complete and kudo's to the both of you for your efforts! Rob - just caught that "Weird Tales from the Barn #3" - originally Posted on June 15th, 2006 . . . A shame we haven't got any customers to enjoy your efforts - HOWEVER, they ARE appreciated! We seem to have fallen into one of those situations where the guys we used to depend upon only pop in now 'n then - and they DON'T read what has been posted. That's sad - especially when the guys make responses to THEM, but they go without any recognition whatsoever. Poor form, indeed! Anyway, continuing THANX for your support! Ruth - give 'em all a stein of whatever pleases 'em! Auf Wiedersehen! Tom Happy Railroading! Siberianmo trolleyboy Member sinceMay 2014 3,727 posts Posted by trolleyboy on Saturday, October 14, 2006 4:05 PM ENCORE SATURDAY ! ENCORE SATURDAY ! ENCORE SATURDAY ! Just a small encore for this evening. I'm off to work shortly for an unusual late saturday evening shift.I'll see everyone tomorrow. Rob trolleyboy wrote:All right I shall drop another weird tales upon you kind folks today. Seeing as how Ted has given them a glowing ( no pun intended ) endorsement. Weird Tales From The Barn # 3 Street Railway Rules Here's some of the more unusual rules for street railway employees First set from Brooklyn Rapid Transit c1900 1) Employees are prohibited from entering saloons when in uniform,and from frequenting such places. Preference in employment and advancement will be given to total abstainers. 2) Lying down or lounging in the cars is prohibited.Condustors and motormen will never sit down while their car is in motion. 3) While engaged in operating a car, whistling, talking,or shouting to teamsters is forbidden,unless necessary to avoid an accident. 4) Should car become electrically charged, pole should be immediatly pulled down Ouch that would cause some grief to the crew ! ASRA RULES After 1903 most street railway companies adopted the ASRA rule book. ( American Street Railway Association ) here's some examples.... Rule 3 Conductors and Motormen must be clean and neat Rule 4 Conductors and Motormen must treat passengers with politness and must not make threatening gestures nor use loud,uncivil,or profane language,even under the greatest provacation. There were 89 general rules in the ASRA rulebook ! Covering everything from language to the proper tying of one's tie !One of the leading creators of this rulebook Rodger Burns also put out a small paper back titled How to Become a Motorman heres an excerpt. Do not lose control of your temper ! Many man of whom I have personal knowledge has lost his position because of a quick temper. I remeber a motorman who was always ill tempered. The minute he stepped into the vestibule and got his hand on the controller handle, he was angry at eberyone and everything. there was never anything right;the conductor was too slow, or the passengers were too slow,or too many people wetre riding.he had an idea that everyone wanted to ride with him, and they brouhgt all the old women,little children, and cripples on his car so he could not make his time. The next paragraph is my personal favourite. Do not forget your personal appearance.nothing gives a motorman a better stand in the public eye than to be clean and neatly dressed. If there is anything that disgusts me in a fellow worker,it is to sit behind him and gaze on a neck so dirty that you could raise a crop of potatoes on it without any fertilizer. Enjoy Rob [i]Rule three trolleyboy Member sinceMay 2014 3,727 posts Posted by trolleyboy on Saturday, October 14, 2006 3:54 PM ENCORE BLAST FROM THE PAST ENCORE BLAST FROM THE PAST Just a little something to tickle everyone's optic nerves from the not all that distant past. Rob passengerfan wrote:Good Morning Tom and trhe rest of the gang. Time for a cup of coffee and one of those crumpets from the Mentor Village Bakery. I didn't miss the B&O yesterday but it was one of the days where my Civic duty calls and I was in and out of the office my home and the City Hall all day long. Here is my B&O contribution for yesterday. BALTIMORE & OHIO Streamlined Sleeping Cars By Al The B&O would purchase 95 streamlined sleeping cars and lease three more for a period of time. Forty-three of the 95 sleeping cars owned by the B&O were heavyweights streamlined by Pullman Calumet for operation in the pre-WW II CAPITOL LIMITED and NATIONAL LIMITED trains. Of the remaining 52 lightweight stream-lined cars the B&O purchased 14 used from other roads. The CAPITOL LIMITED was inaugurated as an All-Pullman train between Baltimore - Washington and Chicago on May 12, 1923. Even though it was shown in the timetable as a Jersey City to Chicago train only one or two cars were forwarded beyond Washington in a connecting train to and from Jersey City. The CAPITOL LIMITED became one of the first fully air conditioned trains in 1932. On November 23, 1938 the CAPITOL LIMITED began operating as a diesel powered All-Pullman streamliner between Washington and Chicago with through sleeping cars to and from Jersey City. The heavyweight cars except for the two dining cars were remodeled and streamlined by Pullman Calumet with full width diaphragms full skirting, rounded turtle roofs, and tight lock couplers. It is believed this was one of the first installations of tight lock couplers on heavyweight cars. The new lightweight cars were almost all equipped with tight lock couplers. B&O streamlined the two Dining cars in there own Mount Clare shops. The interiors of all cars after remodeling and streamlining featured indirect lighting and brighter colors than Pullman normally used but still conservative enough for the B&O. The original heavyweight cars streamlined for the CAPITOL LIMITED follow. Baggage 12 Crew Dormitory Buffet 16 Seat Lounge Cars CAPITOL GARDEN CAPITOL HILL 14 Section Sleeping Cars ALEXANDER BELL JOHN ERICSSON PARK SPUR 12 Section 1 Drawing Room Sleeping Cars BRADSHAW CASTLETON GREEN BANK GREEN SPRING WESTFIELD 8 Section 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping Cars CLOVER BAY CLOVER CREST CLOVER HEIGHTS CLOVER HOLLOW CLOVER LODGE CLOVER PARK GARDEN BROOK GARDEN GLEN 8 Section 1 Drawing Room 2 Compartment Sleeping cars LAUREL BRANCH LAUREL DALE 36 Seat Dining Cars 1061 MARGARET BRENT 1062 VIRGINIA DARE 3 Compartment 1 Drawing Room Buffet 22 Seat Lounge 8 Seat Sun Room Solarium Observation CAPITOL ARMS CAPITOL CITY In October 1939 Pullman delivered two streamlined heavy-weight Sleeping cars for service in the CAPITOL LIMITED consists. These two cars were 8 Section 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Cars EMERALD BORDER and EMERALD WATERS. Coaches were added to the CAPITOL LIMITED between August 4, 1940 and December 19, 1941 when the All Coach COLUMBIAN was inaugurated. At that time the CAPITOL LIMITED regained its All Pullman status. Having seen the results of the streamlined CAPITOL LIMITED increase passenger loads the B&O next turned their attention to the NATIONAL LIMITED the Washington - St. Louis train with cars to and from Jersey City. Once again like the CAPITOL LIMITED the timetable showed the NATIONAL LIMITED as a Jersey City - St. Louis train. Unlike the CAPITOL LIMITED the NATIONAL LIMITED carried both Coaches and Sleeping cars. The NATIONAL LIMITED also required four sets of equipment while the CAPITOL LIMITED only needed two. Again the B&O chose new EMC E units to power the streamlined train. The B&O Mount Clare shops streamlined 19 heavyweight cars while Pullman Calumet streamlined 23 heavyweight cars. Only three Sun Room Solarium Observations were necessary as they did not run north of Washington to Jersey City. Again most of the NATIONAL LIMITED consists would be assembled in Baltimore/Washington. Only sixteen of the Mount Clare shops heavyweight stream-lined cars were destined for service in the NATIONAL LIMITED the other three were for additional cars for the COLUMBIANS. The NATIONAL LIMITED streamlined heavyweights are listed below. Baggage 12 Crew Dormitory Buffet 16 Seat Lounge Cars 1302-1305 54 Revenue Seat Coaches 3550-3557 42 Seat Dining Lounge Cars 1077 - 1080 14 Section Sleeping Cars PARK CITY PARK FALLS 12 Section 1 Drawing Room Sleeping Cars EAST AKRON EAST MADISONVILLE EAST NORWOOD EAST SPARTA EAST YOUNGSTOWN UNIONVILLE 8 Section Buffet 20 Seat Lounge Cars MERCHANTS CLUB QUEEN CITY CLUB 8 Section Buffet 19 Seat Lounge Cars MARYLAND CLUB PITTSBURGH CLUB 10 Section 1 Drawing Room 2 Compartment Sleeping Cars LOCH AWE LOCH DOON LOCH EARN LOCH LOMOND 8 Section 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Cars EMERALD BAY EMERALD BROOK EMERALD FALLS EMERALD WAVES 3 Compartment 1 Drawing Room Buffet 22 Seat Lounge 8 seat Sun Room Solarium Observations CAPITOL ESCORT PALM ISLANDS PALM KEY On January 15, 1941 The CAPITOL LIMITED received its first lightweight streamlined Sleeping cars. These were the two Pullman Pool cars CASCADE LOCKS and CASCADE BLUFFS with 10 Roomettes and 5 Double Bedrooms. The CAPITOL LIMITED operated these cars as Washington - Chicago sleepers. On May 27, 1941 two additional CASCADE series cars began operating in the DIPLOMAT between Washington and Detroit again one of these cars per consist in the otherwise all heavyweight train. The DIPLOMAT was the premier train of the B&O between Washington and Detroit and had operated as All Pullman at one time. The two CASCADE Series cars assigned to the DIPLOMAT were CASCADE BOULDERS and CASCADE GULLY. For whatever reason Pullman Standard opened their production line in September- October 1943 at the height of WW II long enough to deliver three new CASCADE series 10 roomette 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars to the B&O for assignment between Washington and St. Louis in the NATIONAL LIMITED. The three CASCADE series sleeping cars were CASCADE DRIVE, CASCADE MUSIC and CASCADE SOUND. All seven of the CASCADE series sleeping cars would become B&O property in 1945 and would receive 7000 series numbers along with their names. 10 ROOMETTE 5 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard April 1940 Plan: 4072B Lot: 6606 (Built for Pullman Pool transferred to B&O in 1941) CAPITOL LIMITED CASCADE BLUFF CASCADE LOCKS DIPLOMAT CASCADE BOULDERS CASCADE GULLY 10 ROOMETTE 5 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard September October 1943 Plan: 4072F Lot: 6679 (Built for Pullman pool assigned to NATIONAL LIMITED) CASCADE DRIVE CASCADE MUSIC CASCADE SOUND In 1945 when the seven CASCADE series cars received 7000 series numbers along with their names they appeared as follows. trolleyboy Member sinceMay 2014 3,727 posts Posted by trolleyboy on Saturday, October 14, 2006 3:07 PM Good afternoon Ruth, how are things going, slow you say, well yes but it tis saturday after all. I'll nab a nice cold Becks and some of the beer nuts if you would please. Here's a twenty for an evening round for the stragglers. Tom-Yikes snow like that would put a crimp in anyone's style no matter which head was responsible for the mess.I'm thinking with both the ladies and H&H cheering for us that we should have all bases covered. We have the distraction factor of the ladies , the intimidation factor of H&H and Boris and Leon, and the extra distraction of Doug playing toppless Should make for an intreesting audio / video tourney. No wonder the networks won't carry it! Yup all we recieved yesterday was wind and rain, only twice in my lifetime can I remember snow as bad as you described once in '77 when I was six and the snow was upto my neck , and once again in '83 when I was twelve it was upto my chest. So by my infalable reckoning that waas about the same amount of snow give or take an inch or two. Doug-Fine reading in todays encore.Ticket and transfer fraud was a continuing battle for the street railways for years and years as well.One of the deciding factors that made most street railways go to one man crews was the elimination of conductors, as it was found that in many cases they would overring or underring the fares and pocket the difference. Back in a bit. Ruth another frosty one if you would be so kind. Rob siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "OUR" PLACE - Adults talking Classic Trains in a special place since April 12th, 2005! Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, October 14, 2006 8:56 AM Guten Morgen allerseits! Wie ist jeder? Es is OKTOBERFEST! Partei wollen wir! Cards win! Cards win! My "prophecy" came true - I said we'd take one of the games and we did! "We takes what we gets!" My worst fear was being swept by those Mets from Queens (somehow, being "mighty" and calling a place like "Queens" home, doesn't meld very well! <grin>) So, we've got two at home before returning to the "Big Apple" for what could be the deciding game. I'd be a total dreamer to say that we have any kind of advantage - I go with the proven performances of the teams, and the Mets simply are the better of the two. However, "things happen"! Nick - didn't expect to see ya at all on Friday; a return to olde tymes, eh Sleeping on the stairs is a bit rough on the house critters - they have trouble enough navigating 'em without having to go 'round or over a comatose human. Thursday nites must be a "bigun" over in west Wales! Enjoyed the writeup of your visit to the Second Class Saloon and the "creatures" you mingled with. A "recon" trip is always a good idea and now we have a better handle on what we're up against. Didn't know that H&H decided to "cheer" for the guys - Cindy and her Ladies of Perpetual Motion are practicing long 'n hard over at the Mentor Dance & Fudge Works in front of standing room only gawkers! Those outfits from Victoria's Secret surely are - ahem - revealing. Nice double-header from Rob - and I'll get to the "heavy reading" a bit later on . . . . good to see you've returned and we've missed those inclusive Posts! Talk of the Trolley Museum brings back some great thoughts . . . Snow in Buffalo but nothing in your part of the woods, eh The way the weather patterns seem to work with that "lake effect snow" it seems that's more the normal than not. I recall way back in the late 50s a friend of mine and I made a trip up to Oswego, NY (state teacher's college). We were on the "trail" of a couple of "honeys" who had invited us up there for a weekend. So, what to do other than think with the wrong head, so to speak. Off we went from New York City for the long drive. We were on a 72 hour pass and weren't supposed to travel outside a 50 mile radius without permission from the command. Screw it - we went anyway. To make a long story really short - the first morning that we awoke in Oswego, there was snow up to the window sill - so what, you say We were on the 2nd floor! <yikes> Ah, memories of youth . . . . Doug - shirt #4 it is! That leaves #1 'n #5 unassigned; so Pete will have to make his selection upon his return and what's left goes to Lars. <phew> Never thought something so &#%$ simple would turn out to be - well, typical of "Our" Place! <grin> Nice ENCORE! - and that too will be set aside for my reading a bit later on. It's going to be a BEAUTIFUL day here in mid-continent and there's all kinds of outside work to attend to. Gotta get this 'n that done before the onset of the really cold weather sure to come. Noticed that petrol had dropped to $1.98 (rounded) up at "Collusion Corner" as the uncertainty of fuel prices seems to have turned in our favor - albeit, briefly. Heard on the radio this morning that Armadillos have been sighted in an adjacent community. Now that may not mean much to many of you, but those critters used to be pretty much restricted to Texas and parts way south. They've marched northward and apparently are finding things to their liking up here. One will know they are here should your car have an encounter - BUMP - with one (or two). So, Tex, your relatives have arrived! Boris, serve ‘em all of the “spiked” OJ they can handle! Remember, this is ENCORE! Saturday - an "optional" event on our calendar for those who give a Rat's Patoot! Auf Wiedersehen! Tom Happy Railroading! Siberianmo siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "OUR" PLACE - Adults talking Classic Trains in a special place since April 12th, 2005! Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, October 14, 2006 8:27 AM Guten Morgen allerseits! OKTOBERFEST at "Our" Place! We will feature GERMAN brew all month! GERMAN sausages will be added to the menu for the month, with all the trimmings! On Saturday's in Otober The Mentor Village Teutonic Society will sponsor Oompah Music live at the "Our" Place picnic grounds Pavillion and Dance Emporium! Performers include the Sauerkraut Band, Electric Lederhosen and Burst the Wurst Trio Lederhosen and Alpine hats will be worn by "Our Place"! staff throughout the month! Full scale LGB trains will be running on the main lines for free round trips toCan-Am Gorge on weekends - 10 AM to 4 PM. First northbound departs the "Our" Place platform at 10 AM sharp. undt ve mean, sharp! PLAN TO SHARE THIS FALL CELEBRATION WITH US! Auf Wiedersehen! Tom Happy Railroading! 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Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! ><fright!> He's baaaaaaaaaaaack! Oh, no - he's NOT. That's an ENCORE! from June 22nd, 2006 from 20 Fingers Al - now a member of the Legion of the Lost. <phew> Had me worried there, Rob!
Appreciate the "Blast from the Past" (now WHERE did I see that phrase before <grin> - is there nothing that is "safe" from stealing 'round here ) Anyway, wtih Rob back on Satutrdays, it makes this lonesome day a bit more pleasant for Ruth and whoever happens to straggle in to the Tavern by the Tracks!
Spent most of this fine day outoors, which is really a treat for me in that I detest hot weather and now that the fall has arrived - ummmmmmm, love it! Worked my aging butt to a frazzle, all joints are in some degree of agony, a hot shower, and my 2nd Coors Light, parked in front of the TV for the Tigers vs Athletics playoff game #4 - Juneau snoozing in the sunshine of the enclosed patio - my bride waiting on me hand 'n foot (yeah, right!) - all's well with the world!
This time next week, if all goes well, I'll be enjoying the sights, sounds and thorough enjoyment of VIA Rail's "Chaleur," or at least I surely hope so! The way VIA has handled this reservation of mine and total disinterest in answering my questions, I'm beginning to wonder . . . Nothing or no one stays the same - a tenet of siberianmo that seems to hold true. <groan> Anyway, I doubt that the JOs who handle the "customer service" can screw up what should be a most enjoyable treat for Moi - Montreal's Central Station (Gare Centrale) - the "Chaleur" - the beer! - etc., etc., etc. Can't wait!!
As this is my "last" ENCORE! Saturday for awhile, I'll come up with something appropriate to round out the way I feel . . .
Nick - Ain't no way you or anyone else is gonna find out "who" that "mystery gal" is! Think about it - I'm 68 - so this is no CHICK by any stretch of the imagination! Lars is playing it coy and hasn't let on . . . so, we'll see what develops! Have to admit that my imagination is running with it . . . . but a gal in "Depends" does very little for me! Oh yeah - your Email was received and thanx for the input!!
Rob - many thanx for Posting over on "my other Thread"! Really appreciate that, especially since Lars may not be around on a regular basis, and BK is - well - BK! Anyway, the idea is to try 'n attract some new blood 'round here and the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that I picked the WRONG Forum for this adult bar 'n grill. No matter - we're here and we'll "take what we gets!" Really - appreciate your support and hope you stop by more frequently with some TRACTION Pix!
Doug 'n Rob - my "reading assignment" is complete and kudo's to the both of you for your efforts!
Rob - just caught that "Weird Tales from the Barn #3" - originally Posted on June 15th, 2006 . . . A shame we haven't got any customers to enjoy your efforts - HOWEVER, they ARE appreciated! We seem to have fallen into one of those situations where the guys we used to depend upon only pop in now 'n then - and they DON'T read what has been posted. That's sad - especially when the guys make responses to THEM, but they go without any recognition whatsoever. Poor form, indeed! Anyway, continuing THANX for your support!
Ruth - give 'em all a stein of whatever pleases 'em!
ENCORE SATURDAY ! ENCORE SATURDAY ! ENCORE SATURDAY !
Just a small encore for this evening. I'm off to work shortly for an unusual late saturday evening shift.I'll see everyone tomorrow.
trolleyboy wrote:All right I shall drop another weird tales upon you kind folks today. Seeing as how Ted has given them a glowing ( no pun intended ) endorsement. Weird Tales From The Barn # 3 Street Railway Rules Here's some of the more unusual rules for street railway employees First set from Brooklyn Rapid Transit c1900 1) Employees are prohibited from entering saloons when in uniform,and from frequenting such places. Preference in employment and advancement will be given to total abstainers. 2) Lying down or lounging in the cars is prohibited.Condustors and motormen will never sit down while their car is in motion. 3) While engaged in operating a car, whistling, talking,or shouting to teamsters is forbidden,unless necessary to avoid an accident. 4) Should car become electrically charged, pole should be immediatly pulled down Ouch that would cause some grief to the crew ! ASRA RULES After 1903 most street railway companies adopted the ASRA rule book. ( American Street Railway Association ) here's some examples.... Rule 3 Conductors and Motormen must be clean and neat Rule 4 Conductors and Motormen must treat passengers with politness and must not make threatening gestures nor use loud,uncivil,or profane language,even under the greatest provacation. There were 89 general rules in the ASRA rulebook ! Covering everything from language to the proper tying of one's tie !One of the leading creators of this rulebook Rodger Burns also put out a small paper back titled How to Become a Motorman heres an excerpt. Do not lose control of your temper ! Many man of whom I have personal knowledge has lost his position because of a quick temper. I remeber a motorman who was always ill tempered. The minute he stepped into the vestibule and got his hand on the controller handle, he was angry at eberyone and everything. there was never anything right;the conductor was too slow, or the passengers were too slow,or too many people wetre riding.he had an idea that everyone wanted to ride with him, and they brouhgt all the old women,little children, and cripples on his car so he could not make his time. The next paragraph is my personal favourite. Do not forget your personal appearance.nothing gives a motorman a better stand in the public eye than to be clean and neatly dressed. If there is anything that disgusts me in a fellow worker,it is to sit behind him and gaze on a neck so dirty that you could raise a crop of potatoes on it without any fertilizer. Enjoy Rob [i]Rule three
ENCORE BLAST FROM THE PAST ENCORE BLAST FROM THE PAST
Just a little something to tickle everyone's optic nerves from the not all that distant past.
passengerfan wrote:Good Morning Tom and trhe rest of the gang. Time for a cup of coffee and one of those crumpets from the Mentor Village Bakery. I didn't miss the B&O yesterday but it was one of the days where my Civic duty calls and I was in and out of the office my home and the City Hall all day long. Here is my B&O contribution for yesterday. BALTIMORE & OHIO Streamlined Sleeping Cars By Al The B&O would purchase 95 streamlined sleeping cars and lease three more for a period of time. Forty-three of the 95 sleeping cars owned by the B&O were heavyweights streamlined by Pullman Calumet for operation in the pre-WW II CAPITOL LIMITED and NATIONAL LIMITED trains. Of the remaining 52 lightweight stream-lined cars the B&O purchased 14 used from other roads. The CAPITOL LIMITED was inaugurated as an All-Pullman train between Baltimore - Washington and Chicago on May 12, 1923. Even though it was shown in the timetable as a Jersey City to Chicago train only one or two cars were forwarded beyond Washington in a connecting train to and from Jersey City. The CAPITOL LIMITED became one of the first fully air conditioned trains in 1932. On November 23, 1938 the CAPITOL LIMITED began operating as a diesel powered All-Pullman streamliner between Washington and Chicago with through sleeping cars to and from Jersey City. The heavyweight cars except for the two dining cars were remodeled and streamlined by Pullman Calumet with full width diaphragms full skirting, rounded turtle roofs, and tight lock couplers. It is believed this was one of the first installations of tight lock couplers on heavyweight cars. The new lightweight cars were almost all equipped with tight lock couplers. B&O streamlined the two Dining cars in there own Mount Clare shops. The interiors of all cars after remodeling and streamlining featured indirect lighting and brighter colors than Pullman normally used but still conservative enough for the B&O. The original heavyweight cars streamlined for the CAPITOL LIMITED follow. Baggage 12 Crew Dormitory Buffet 16 Seat Lounge Cars CAPITOL GARDEN CAPITOL HILL 14 Section Sleeping Cars ALEXANDER BELL JOHN ERICSSON PARK SPUR 12 Section 1 Drawing Room Sleeping Cars BRADSHAW CASTLETON GREEN BANK GREEN SPRING WESTFIELD 8 Section 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping Cars CLOVER BAY CLOVER CREST CLOVER HEIGHTS CLOVER HOLLOW CLOVER LODGE CLOVER PARK GARDEN BROOK GARDEN GLEN 8 Section 1 Drawing Room 2 Compartment Sleeping cars LAUREL BRANCH LAUREL DALE 36 Seat Dining Cars 1061 MARGARET BRENT 1062 VIRGINIA DARE 3 Compartment 1 Drawing Room Buffet 22 Seat Lounge 8 Seat Sun Room Solarium Observation CAPITOL ARMS CAPITOL CITY In October 1939 Pullman delivered two streamlined heavy-weight Sleeping cars for service in the CAPITOL LIMITED consists. These two cars were 8 Section 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Cars EMERALD BORDER and EMERALD WATERS. Coaches were added to the CAPITOL LIMITED between August 4, 1940 and December 19, 1941 when the All Coach COLUMBIAN was inaugurated. At that time the CAPITOL LIMITED regained its All Pullman status. Having seen the results of the streamlined CAPITOL LIMITED increase passenger loads the B&O next turned their attention to the NATIONAL LIMITED the Washington - St. Louis train with cars to and from Jersey City. Once again like the CAPITOL LIMITED the timetable showed the NATIONAL LIMITED as a Jersey City - St. Louis train. Unlike the CAPITOL LIMITED the NATIONAL LIMITED carried both Coaches and Sleeping cars. The NATIONAL LIMITED also required four sets of equipment while the CAPITOL LIMITED only needed two. Again the B&O chose new EMC E units to power the streamlined train. The B&O Mount Clare shops streamlined 19 heavyweight cars while Pullman Calumet streamlined 23 heavyweight cars. Only three Sun Room Solarium Observations were necessary as they did not run north of Washington to Jersey City. Again most of the NATIONAL LIMITED consists would be assembled in Baltimore/Washington. Only sixteen of the Mount Clare shops heavyweight stream-lined cars were destined for service in the NATIONAL LIMITED the other three were for additional cars for the COLUMBIANS. The NATIONAL LIMITED streamlined heavyweights are listed below. Baggage 12 Crew Dormitory Buffet 16 Seat Lounge Cars 1302-1305 54 Revenue Seat Coaches 3550-3557 42 Seat Dining Lounge Cars 1077 - 1080 14 Section Sleeping Cars PARK CITY PARK FALLS 12 Section 1 Drawing Room Sleeping Cars EAST AKRON EAST MADISONVILLE EAST NORWOOD EAST SPARTA EAST YOUNGSTOWN UNIONVILLE 8 Section Buffet 20 Seat Lounge Cars MERCHANTS CLUB QUEEN CITY CLUB 8 Section Buffet 19 Seat Lounge Cars MARYLAND CLUB PITTSBURGH CLUB 10 Section 1 Drawing Room 2 Compartment Sleeping Cars LOCH AWE LOCH DOON LOCH EARN LOCH LOMOND 8 Section 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Cars EMERALD BAY EMERALD BROOK EMERALD FALLS EMERALD WAVES 3 Compartment 1 Drawing Room Buffet 22 Seat Lounge 8 seat Sun Room Solarium Observations CAPITOL ESCORT PALM ISLANDS PALM KEY On January 15, 1941 The CAPITOL LIMITED received its first lightweight streamlined Sleeping cars. These were the two Pullman Pool cars CASCADE LOCKS and CASCADE BLUFFS with 10 Roomettes and 5 Double Bedrooms. The CAPITOL LIMITED operated these cars as Washington - Chicago sleepers. On May 27, 1941 two additional CASCADE series cars began operating in the DIPLOMAT between Washington and Detroit again one of these cars per consist in the otherwise all heavyweight train. The DIPLOMAT was the premier train of the B&O between Washington and Detroit and had operated as All Pullman at one time. The two CASCADE Series cars assigned to the DIPLOMAT were CASCADE BOULDERS and CASCADE GULLY. For whatever reason Pullman Standard opened their production line in September- October 1943 at the height of WW II long enough to deliver three new CASCADE series 10 roomette 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars to the B&O for assignment between Washington and St. Louis in the NATIONAL LIMITED. The three CASCADE series sleeping cars were CASCADE DRIVE, CASCADE MUSIC and CASCADE SOUND. All seven of the CASCADE series sleeping cars would become B&O property in 1945 and would receive 7000 series numbers along with their names. 10 ROOMETTE 5 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard April 1940 Plan: 4072B Lot: 6606 (Built for Pullman Pool transferred to B&O in 1941) CAPITOL LIMITED CASCADE BLUFF CASCADE LOCKS DIPLOMAT CASCADE BOULDERS CASCADE GULLY 10 ROOMETTE 5 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard September October 1943 Plan: 4072F Lot: 6679 (Built for Pullman pool assigned to NATIONAL LIMITED) CASCADE DRIVE CASCADE MUSIC CASCADE SOUND In 1945 when the seven CASCADE series cars received 7000 series numbers along with their names they appeared as follows. trolleyboy Member sinceMay 2014 3,727 posts Posted by trolleyboy on Saturday, October 14, 2006 3:07 PM Good afternoon Ruth, how are things going, slow you say, well yes but it tis saturday after all. I'll nab a nice cold Becks and some of the beer nuts if you would please. Here's a twenty for an evening round for the stragglers. Tom-Yikes snow like that would put a crimp in anyone's style no matter which head was responsible for the mess.I'm thinking with both the ladies and H&H cheering for us that we should have all bases covered. We have the distraction factor of the ladies , the intimidation factor of H&H and Boris and Leon, and the extra distraction of Doug playing toppless Should make for an intreesting audio / video tourney. No wonder the networks won't carry it! Yup all we recieved yesterday was wind and rain, only twice in my lifetime can I remember snow as bad as you described once in '77 when I was six and the snow was upto my neck , and once again in '83 when I was twelve it was upto my chest. So by my infalable reckoning that waas about the same amount of snow give or take an inch or two. Doug-Fine reading in todays encore.Ticket and transfer fraud was a continuing battle for the street railways for years and years as well.One of the deciding factors that made most street railways go to one man crews was the elimination of conductors, as it was found that in many cases they would overring or underring the fares and pocket the difference. Back in a bit. Ruth another frosty one if you would be so kind. Rob siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "OUR" PLACE - Adults talking Classic Trains in a special place since April 12th, 2005! Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, October 14, 2006 8:56 AM Guten Morgen allerseits! Wie ist jeder? Es is OKTOBERFEST! Partei wollen wir! Cards win! Cards win! My "prophecy" came true - I said we'd take one of the games and we did! "We takes what we gets!" My worst fear was being swept by those Mets from Queens (somehow, being "mighty" and calling a place like "Queens" home, doesn't meld very well! <grin>) So, we've got two at home before returning to the "Big Apple" for what could be the deciding game. I'd be a total dreamer to say that we have any kind of advantage - I go with the proven performances of the teams, and the Mets simply are the better of the two. However, "things happen"! Nick - didn't expect to see ya at all on Friday; a return to olde tymes, eh Sleeping on the stairs is a bit rough on the house critters - they have trouble enough navigating 'em without having to go 'round or over a comatose human. Thursday nites must be a "bigun" over in west Wales! Enjoyed the writeup of your visit to the Second Class Saloon and the "creatures" you mingled with. A "recon" trip is always a good idea and now we have a better handle on what we're up against. Didn't know that H&H decided to "cheer" for the guys - Cindy and her Ladies of Perpetual Motion are practicing long 'n hard over at the Mentor Dance & Fudge Works in front of standing room only gawkers! Those outfits from Victoria's Secret surely are - ahem - revealing. Nice double-header from Rob - and I'll get to the "heavy reading" a bit later on . . . . good to see you've returned and we've missed those inclusive Posts! Talk of the Trolley Museum brings back some great thoughts . . . Snow in Buffalo but nothing in your part of the woods, eh The way the weather patterns seem to work with that "lake effect snow" it seems that's more the normal than not. I recall way back in the late 50s a friend of mine and I made a trip up to Oswego, NY (state teacher's college). We were on the "trail" of a couple of "honeys" who had invited us up there for a weekend. So, what to do other than think with the wrong head, so to speak. Off we went from New York City for the long drive. We were on a 72 hour pass and weren't supposed to travel outside a 50 mile radius without permission from the command. Screw it - we went anyway. To make a long story really short - the first morning that we awoke in Oswego, there was snow up to the window sill - so what, you say We were on the 2nd floor! <yikes> Ah, memories of youth . . . . Doug - shirt #4 it is! That leaves #1 'n #5 unassigned; so Pete will have to make his selection upon his return and what's left goes to Lars. <phew> Never thought something so &#%$ simple would turn out to be - well, typical of "Our" Place! <grin> Nice ENCORE! - and that too will be set aside for my reading a bit later on. It's going to be a BEAUTIFUL day here in mid-continent and there's all kinds of outside work to attend to. Gotta get this 'n that done before the onset of the really cold weather sure to come. Noticed that petrol had dropped to $1.98 (rounded) up at "Collusion Corner" as the uncertainty of fuel prices seems to have turned in our favor - albeit, briefly. Heard on the radio this morning that Armadillos have been sighted in an adjacent community. Now that may not mean much to many of you, but those critters used to be pretty much restricted to Texas and parts way south. They've marched northward and apparently are finding things to their liking up here. One will know they are here should your car have an encounter - BUMP - with one (or two). So, Tex, your relatives have arrived! Boris, serve ‘em all of the “spiked” OJ they can handle! Remember, this is ENCORE! Saturday - an "optional" event on our calendar for those who give a Rat's Patoot! Auf Wiedersehen! Tom Happy Railroading! Siberianmo siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "OUR" PLACE - Adults talking Classic Trains in a special place since April 12th, 2005! Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, October 14, 2006 8:27 AM Guten Morgen allerseits! OKTOBERFEST at "Our" Place! We will feature GERMAN brew all month! GERMAN sausages will be added to the menu for the month, with all the trimmings! On Saturday's in Otober The Mentor Village Teutonic Society will sponsor Oompah Music live at the "Our" Place picnic grounds Pavillion and Dance Emporium! Performers include the Sauerkraut Band, Electric Lederhosen and Burst the Wurst Trio Lederhosen and Alpine hats will be worn by "Our Place"! staff throughout the month! Full scale LGB trains will be running on the main lines for free round trips toCan-Am Gorge on weekends - 10 AM to 4 PM. First northbound departs the "Our" Place platform at 10 AM sharp. undt ve mean, sharp! PLAN TO SHARE THIS FALL CELEBRATION WITH US! Auf Wiedersehen! Tom Happy Railroading! 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Good afternoon Ruth, how are things going, slow you say, well yes but it tis saturday after all. I'll nab a nice cold Becks and some of the beer nuts if you would please. Here's a twenty for an evening round for the stragglers.
Tom-Yikes snow like that would put a crimp in anyone's style no matter which head was responsible for the mess.I'm thinking with both the ladies and H&H cheering for us that we should have all bases covered. We have the distraction factor of the ladies , the intimidation factor of H&H and Boris and Leon, and the extra distraction of Doug playing toppless Should make for an intreesting audio / video tourney. No wonder the networks won't carry it! Yup all we recieved yesterday was wind and rain, only twice in my lifetime can I remember snow as bad as you described once in '77 when I was six and the snow was upto my neck , and once again in '83 when I was twelve it was upto my chest. So by my infalable reckoning that waas about the same amount of snow give or take an inch or two.
Doug-Fine reading in todays encore.Ticket and transfer fraud was a continuing battle for the street railways for years and years as well.One of the deciding factors that made most street railways go to one man crews was the elimination of conductors, as it was found that in many cases they would overring or underring the fares and pocket the difference.
Back in a bit. Ruth another frosty one if you would be so kind.
Cards win! Cards win! My "prophecy" came true - I said we'd take one of the games and we did! "We takes what we gets!" My worst fear was being swept by those Mets from Queens (somehow, being "mighty" and calling a place like "Queens" home, doesn't meld very well! <grin>) So, we've got two at home before returning to the "Big Apple" for what could be the deciding game. I'd be a total dreamer to say that we have any kind of advantage - I go with the proven performances of the teams, and the Mets simply are the better of the two. However, "things happen"!
Nick - didn't expect to see ya at all on Friday; a return to olde tymes, eh Sleeping on the stairs is a bit rough on the house critters - they have trouble enough navigating 'em without having to go 'round or over a comatose human. Thursday nites must be a "bigun" over in west Wales!
Enjoyed the writeup of your visit to the Second Class Saloon and the "creatures" you mingled with. A "recon" trip is always a good idea and now we have a better handle on what we're up against. Didn't know that H&H decided to "cheer" for the guys - Cindy and her Ladies of Perpetual Motion are practicing long 'n hard over at the Mentor Dance & Fudge Works in front of standing room only gawkers! Those outfits from Victoria's Secret surely are - ahem - revealing.
Nice double-header from Rob - and I'll get to the "heavy reading" a bit later on . . . . good to see you've returned and we've missed those inclusive Posts! Talk of the Trolley Museum brings back some great thoughts . . .
Snow in Buffalo but nothing in your part of the woods, eh The way the weather patterns seem to work with that "lake effect snow" it seems that's more the normal than not. I recall way back in the late 50s a friend of mine and I made a trip up to Oswego, NY (state teacher's college). We were on the "trail" of a couple of "honeys" who had invited us up there for a weekend. So, what to do other than think with the wrong head, so to speak. Off we went from New York City for the long drive. We were on a 72 hour pass and weren't supposed to travel outside a 50 mile radius without permission from the command. Screw it - we went anyway. To make a long story really short - the first morning that we awoke in Oswego, there was snow up to the window sill - so what, you say We were on the 2nd floor! <yikes> Ah, memories of youth . . . .
Doug - shirt #4 it is! That leaves #1 'n #5 unassigned; so Pete will have to make his selection upon his return and what's left goes to Lars. <phew> Never thought something so &#%$ simple would turn out to be - well, typical of "Our" Place! <grin>
Nice ENCORE! - and that too will be set aside for my reading a bit later on.
It's going to be a BEAUTIFUL day here in mid-continent and there's all kinds of outside work to attend to. Gotta get this 'n that done before the onset of the really cold weather sure to come.
Noticed that petrol had dropped to $1.98 (rounded) up at "Collusion Corner" as the uncertainty of fuel prices seems to have turned in our favor - albeit, briefly.
Heard on the radio this morning that Armadillos have been sighted in an adjacent community. Now that may not mean much to many of you, but those critters used to be pretty much restricted to Texas and parts way south. They've marched northward and apparently are finding things to their liking up here. One will know they are here should your car have an encounter - BUMP - with one (or two). So, Tex, your relatives have arrived!
Remember, this is ENCORE! Saturday - an "optional" event on our calendar for those who give a Rat's Patoot!
OKTOBERFEST at "Our" Place!
We will feature GERMAN brew all month!
GERMAN sausages will be added to the menu for the month, with all the trimmings!
On Saturday's in Otober The Mentor Village Teutonic Society will sponsor Oompah Music live at the "Our" Place picnic grounds Pavillion and Dance Emporium! Performers include the Sauerkraut Band, Electric Lederhosen and Burst the Wurst Trio
Lederhosen and Alpine hats will be worn by "Our Place"! staff throughout the month!
Full scale LGB trains will be running on the main lines for free round trips toCan-Am Gorge on weekends - 10 AM to 4 PM. First northbound departs the "Our" Place platform at 10 AM sharp. undt ve mean, sharp!
PLAN TO SHARE THIS FALL CELEBRATION WITH US!
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