"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[nickinwestwales]

Well howdy boys,apologise for absence-catching up on sleep after hectic few days,[4:-)]TOM-I`ll take up on some of those "rounds for the house" that have been bandied about of late,first- a Toast to Heather`s granny,Barb-Absent Friends,always missed....Right,much catchee-upee needed round here,so-TOM-thanks for C.N. `flag`-my first love so to speak-first pic I can remember seeing of an American train was the A-B-A FP9 combo that AL mentions,pulling out of Montreal done up in that beautiful Zebra livery-a nice little flashback,ta[^]--CM3-You`ve raised the bar this time buddy,that B+M piece is the equal of any Phillip Hastings photo shoot-lets hear it for small doings on the low iron !!!! CHRIS-as anything is possible in cyber-space,how about we try and get the Eagles for the `Our Place` new year bash-as our resident lawyer you had best get their people to talk to our people and they can all talk to the civic people and..................p.s-hope the recovery is progressing well,try a wee dram of The Glenmorangie to warm your bones..PETE.......first,an apology for our host-He doesn`t realise that here in the Old Country , the steam engine,the bacon sarnie & the pint mug of piping hot,over-sweetened and corrosively strong tea are an inseparable triumverate -We mustn`t think too harshly of them,they are raised to drink coffee and know no better,suffice it to say that whilst this house retains an English chef,middle back and stewed darjeeling will always be available---on to trains,Strathspey-is the Caley 0-6-0 a McIntosh 812 class?-if so I have some techie data,Jacobean-are they still using the L.N.E.R K4 mogul and is the 4-6-0 a black`5` if so which one-"Robert Stevenson" was down this way a few years back-looks real weird with that odd (Caprotti ?)valve gear-will post a pic for sunday slideshow. ..p.s. AWKney Ale will be included on the weekly Zeppelin run from now on-as the evenings draw in we could do with a `winter warmer` .........MANAGER TED-this looks like being a great weekend to go to a blues gig --in Chicago---GO NOW dear boy,think of it as a stategic withdrawl-You`re too valuable an asset to lose to stubborness...ROB-Welcome home,wish it were in happier circumstances-thanks for extra heads-up on yard-It feeds into former O.S.H main between University & Rutherford GO stations (N)and into the E-W line that runs parallel to Steele`s Ave and intersects just north of university (S)-there is another line running out N/W which either dead-ends or goes into a tunnel-there also appears to be a big GO train service area just to the east of the main yard--any help ?........DAVE-you present a study in contrasts my friend-Enforcer by day,poet by night,full time evangelist for the most unsupported of the popular scales( almost unknown over here with the notable exception of some rather fine models of Welsh 2ft gauge on 12mm track) RUSSELL-that F-Unit is truly a thing of beauty [^]-post more !!! right,back to the galley to check on the creature and fini***he specials board,back in a bit [C=:-)]

[Anonymous]

Good early evening Tom. West Coast Dave squeaked ahead of me for the "round all around" gesture, so please give everyone a chip on me for the "next." Really enjoying the "live" encounters of passengerfan, West Coast S, coalminer 3 and Tom's experience while hitting the "high iron" hither, tither and yon. I never do gaming with strangers but can relate to some all night Pullman sessions with the cardboards on a few rail tours. It's really fun when you have your own charter sleepers. I'll admit, however, ankeling (bag and baggage) from cars 22, 23, 24 and 25 down an endless platform to the terminal was like incurring the wrath of Dionysia.

Ah, the East Wind is mindful of the "ski train specials" to New Hampshire and Maine from the urban squaller of eastern cities. That must've been a colorful consist when decked out in each Road's own livery. I noticed our B.&O. or Pennsy cars raising eyebrows when on A.T.S.F. or G.N. lash ups. More than once, autos would keep pace with our train; the people waving to us enthusiastically. I can only guess they were folks originally from eastern states who rellocated in the West. I was never fortunate enough to ride the rails in the "deep south" except for the Auto Train (Largo, Va. -Sanford, Fl.) which hardly qualifies. The choices I made for modeling B.&O. and Southern were based solely on being partial to their loco rosters and rolling stock.

Okay, I've bored all of you long enough.[zzz] Perhaps this will wake everyone up. I just heard on the early news that Florida residents can expect an 80% increase in our heating bills this winter.[:O] Before you reach for the ritual hari-kari kitchen implements, rest assured most of you should not see such increases. Probably, some "averaging" out will occur to ease the disparity between heavy and light usage States. At least I hope this is the case or a whole new dimension may be put on the expression "cool reception."[:-^] So long for now. No Boris, when I said "chip" for the customers...Oh never mind![alien]

[West Coast S]

QUOTE: Originally posted by siberianmo

Ommmmigosh! I missed a round [?] Okay, Boris Ring it and put it on the boss' tab! Sorry, Dave. Tell ya whatimgunnado! I'll match your twenty and your ten, and raise you twenty more for the Clapper fund! [swg]

Now to some serious stuff 'round here. We do NOT serve pickels from jars - don't know where YOU'VE been lately, probably some 5-star LA bistro - for our pickles are and have been right over there in the barrel with the brine on the surface! Grab one of those extended tongs and help yourself! [swg] Jarred pickles - sheesh!

Revenue loss has been attrributed to the parties we throw in this place. In case you've been on the dark side of the moon lately [swg] we've had a run of celebrations these past few weeks - Birthday Bashes Anniversary Celebration 2000th Post etc. That stuff comes from the kitty which is at low ebb.

Boris has been to Vegas AND has a video collection too [?][?] We'll have to get his boss, Nick to look into that. I know those dolls of his run into the big bucks, but that's not from our cash stash - it's from whatever he picks up 'round here. [swg]

Catch ya on the rebound!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

Tom... Five star bistro, seesh! How much do you think they pay me[?] [8D] I do frequent a deli on the west side that still maintains a real pickle barrel with brine and additionaly, homemade mayo and coleslaw made to order, only way to go! Me think Tom need a tall, cool drink. [^]

Tom I'll raise you forty, that should improve the operating ratio somewhat.[:D]

Dave[tup]

[siberianmo]

Ommmmigosh! I missed a round [?] Okay, Boris Ring it and put it on the boss' tab! Sorry, Dave. Tell ya whatimgunnado! I'll match your twenty and your ten, and raise you twenty more for the Clapper fund! [swg]

Now to some serious stuff 'round here. We do NOT serve pickels from jars - don't know where YOU'VE been lately, probably some 5-star LA bistro - for our pickles are and have been right over there in the barrel with the brine on the surface! Grab one of those extended tongs and help yourself! [swg] Jarred pickles - sheesh!

Revenue loss has been attrributed to the parties we throw in this place. In case you've been on the dark side of the moon lately [swg] we've had a run of celebrations these past few weeks - Birthday Bashes Anniversary Celebration 2000th Post etc. That stuff comes from the kitty which is at low ebb.

Boris has been to Vegas AND has a video collection too [?][?] We'll have to get his boss, Nick to look into that. I know those dolls of his run into the big bucks, but that's not from our cash stash - it's from whatever he picks up 'round here. [swg]

Catch ya on the rebound!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[West Coast S]

Tom... Round of Johnny Walker to start, Black forest Ham with swiss and light mayo, dill pickle on the side, a real dill, not that travisty in a jar from the local market assembled using those excellent sourdough rolls I saw earlier.


To the business at hand:

You haven't check the funds Jar? oops me bad! My offer yesterday to pick up rounds for the house went unheaded. Have we all gone on the cyber wagon? You know how we Feds are: no glory, no rewards, too much money with no time to spend it. oh sorry, quoted wrong on that last, THAT'S WHAT MY WIFE SAYS!

Ok, I promise to keep up my weekly stiphen, in my professional capacity I suggust Inspector Clueless be tasked to investigate this sudden loss of revenue or is Boris leveraging the till for his Vegas jaunts, Girl's Gone Wild video collection or his ongoing desire to avoid rejection as a canidate for Extreme Makeover?

Here's my twenty for the fund and a additional ten for the clapper caper. Now who among us is willing to step up to the plate? Oh, heck now that i'm so far off topic as to not be able to see center, I renew my offer of a round for the house, which i'm sure Tom will agree with.

In a vain attempt to redeem some measure of my former self. I had a particularly memorable railfan experience with some members of the US Navy I met on Cajon Pass. who's idea of a good time was to consume large quanites of alcoholic beverages and partake in the art of railfanning sans clothing. Crazy times indeed!

Dave [tup]

[siberianmo]

G'day All!

We've had some interesting conversation this fine day and it appears that our forward momentum has a way to go ........

West Coast S Dave In the situation described, it would have been well worth a few bucks just to be there to catch the looks on the collective dour and sour faces .... had a laugh about that. I've never seen Canadian steam up close and personal, although I did catch a glimpse of a couple of great looking loco's sitting in Squamish, BC while traveling northbound on BC Rail's Cariboo Prospector [Yes -that's the way they spelled it!] Anyway, now that passenger rail has disappared from Squamish and vicinity, I seriously doubt whether we'll ever return to the area - great RR museum up there.

Look, Dave you've just got to spring loose with some bucks 'round here if we're to stay open - or perhaps I'll have to jack up the price of coffee! [swg] C'mon, we're talkin' about cyber drinks in a cyber bar! Good Gawd Gertie - even the Feds should be able to handle that! [swg]

passengerfan Al You really stirred the pot with the Amtrak stuff, eh [?] Happens! So, you've acknowledged the Fallen Flags series - albeit indirectly! - but at least you've seen 'em! [yeah]

I never had the pleasure - or opportunity - of traveling on either road, the SAL or SCL. Would surely have loved to, for driving down the coast with NY plates on the car was a magnet for those small town southern deputies! "Get out the car, boy!" Heard that once or twice! [swg] Anyway, good narrative as always.

I recall a card game aboard the Pennsy en route Cincinnati from NYC back in 1960. I played cards, in uniform, all night in the club car - broke even! Better than being a loser, eh [?] Also, didn't buy a drink - not a one. Now, I really did - but when the morning arrived and I counted up what I had in my pocket, it was pretty much what I began with - so breaking even with cards AND the drinking wasn't so bad.

There were two memorable situations during that session - one involved a guy who just had to be a gangster and the other, a great looking gal who just had to be a hooker. Stories for 'nother time and place. Perhaps the May Rendezvous in Toronto!.

You have an Email.

Thanx for the round! Boris ring the chimes! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon Tom. Guess I'll have a CR and a round for the house if you please.
You have mentioned the ACL and Seaboard in the last few days and my train experiences with them is after they merged to become the Seaboard Coast Line.
I was fortunate to ride out of Florida on the SILVER METEOR from Miami to New York one January and found the train to be excellent remember the sleeper lounge cars with their glass roofs very well as my Bedroom northbound was located in the same car.
The southbound trip was on the all Pullman FLORIDA SPECIAL complete with fashion show while still running on the PC enroute to Washington. In fact the FLORIDA SPECIAL will always stand out in my mind as its the only train I ever disembarked from with more money in my pocket then I boarded with. I wasted buying a bedroom as I joined an all night poker game in the Lounge and walked away the next AM $1,100.00 richer when the game broke up south of Jacksonville. Never before or since have I been that lucky at poker. Played the game many times while relaxing on the train but never had luck like that January night in 1968. For that reason alone I will never forget the FLORIDA SPECIAL. Do remember that the train was all Pullman and their was only two SCL sleeping cars and the twin unit dining cars all of the other cars were foreign (UP,PC,and SP as I recall. Remember checking into a Miami Hotel and crashing after getting off the train. The only train trip I ever had a bedroom on that I never used. The other thing I remember was the car attendant continued to serve the poker players drinks all night and everyone in the game contributed to a most handsome tip for the all night bar service.
Two weeks later was on an Air Canada Flight out of Miami for Montreal and after arrival in Montreal went immediatly to Gare Montreal and boarded the PANORAMA for the trip to Vancouver to meet my bride to be when her ship arrived from Australia. We honeymooned on the CPR CANADIAN returning from Vancouver to our new home in Toronto. Only thing I ever got away with was buying a new home without the wife seeing it first. What was I doing riding trains to and from Florida in the first place, one last fling at the single life before settling down. Would have taken the train to Montreal from Miami but stayed to long in Florida for that to happen.
Enough of my rambling have to get back to the books.

[West Coast S]

Top of the day Tom, Ted, Pwolf, CM3, PassangerfanAL, Gunns and all the gang, cuppa joe good neighbor

Amtrak as a classic? I suppose one could look at it in that fashion. My first exposure to Amtrak was at the Canyon Diablo Bridge in AZ, power was F units wearing Warbonnet, this was one month or thereabouts after its inception.
I recall that a few cars were repainted and relettered to reflect the change in ownership. My first true SF streamliner encounter was as a small lad waiting at a grade crossing somewhere in the midwest on one of my fathers many transfers between coast.

Heady stuff for someone from Blueridge Va, where N&W black was as good as it got. That may partially explain my fondness for the somber, yet dignified grey and scarlet worn by the SP.

Ok tom you'll love this, can't recall the exact year but the CP Royal Hudson was in the San Francisco Bay area for some now forgotten civic event, the buzz was it would be moved dead in tow while on foreign rails until shipment to the Southern could be arraigned, the timming would seem to conicide with the various Bicentenial events.

Anyhow, a intrepid group of railfans in the know, discovered that the SF was pulling some slight of hand and intended to move it and its matching consits under SF pilot power to stockton.
The appointed day arrived as a small crowd gathered at the depot which hadn't seen this much activity in 40 years. One could not help but notice the presence several of high ranking officals and RR police who denied any knowledge of a special movement taken place.

The more we probed for details the more agitated they became, I generally found SF personal at this location unfriendly, particulary the Station Agent, so there glacial stares and grunts didn't surprise me in the least.

The jig was up when a railfan who had raced from Port Chicago appeared, he had barely made it to the depot ahead of the special announcing to all that indeed it was under steam with no pilot locomotive. Soon headlights appeared in the distance, as it approached the industrial area with its mutliple grade crossings the whistle was discerned. All too soon the moment was over, a magnificient matched consits behind classic Canadian steam with not a diesel in sight.

Post analysis might explain the tight jawed reaction from the officials. It was indeed to be piloted by a lead diesel, but prior to arrival in Port Chicago the pilot engine was removed to deal with a power emergency, it makes sense now, they were as surprised as we were at the last minute change of plans for which they had not been notified or prepared for!

Alas, it was the only time i've seen Candian steam, it remains a event unknown to the railfan community except for the dozen or so of us fortunate to be trackside that day for this unusual movement.
Dave[tup]

[siberianmo]

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Seaboard Air Line

Headquarters: Norfolk, VA

Route mileage in 1950: 4,146

Locomotives in 1963: Diesels – 531

Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars - 27,560; Passenger cars – 446

Principal routes in 1950:

Richmond, VA-Homestead, FL (Miami) via Columbia, SC & Jacksonville & Auburndale, FL
Coleman-St. Petersburg, Fl
Hamlet, NC-Savannah, GA
Norlina, NC-Norfolk
Hamlet-Birmingham, AL
Savannah, GA – Montgomery, AL
Baldwin-Chattahoochee, FL
Baldwin-Gross, FL (bypass of Jacksonville)
Waldo-Sulphur Springs, FL
Plant City-Fort Myers, FL
Durant-Venice, FL
Hull-Port Boca Grande, FL
Valrico-West Lake Wales, FL

Passenger trains of note:

Cotton Blossom (Washington, DC-Atlanta)
Gulf Wind (Jacksonville-New Orleans)
New York-Florida Limited (New York-Miami)
Orange Blossom Special (New York-Miami)
Palmland (New York-Tampa & Boca Grande, FL)
Silver Meteor (New York-Miami & St. Petersburg & Venice & Ft. Myers)
Silver Comet (New York- & Portsmouth, VA-Birmingham)
Silver Star (New York-Miami & St. Petersburg & Venice & Boca Grande, FL)
Sunland (Washington & Portsmouth-Miami & Venice; formerly Southern States Special, Sun Queen & Camellia)
Suwannee River Special (Cincinnati-Florida destinations)

Of note: SAL passenger trains were handled by RF&P & PRR north of Richmond.
L&N handled the Gulf Wind west of Chattahoochee.

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!

There was a train called the East Wind that operated back in the 40's to the late 50's. The one I'm referring to had mainly yellow livery for the passenger cars although some others were silver and dark blue. It ran from Washington, D.C. up to Bangor ME. This particular train was unique, not only in the color scheme, but in the manner in which the participating railroads joined in. The Pennsy provided certain cars, as did the New Haven, Boston & Maine and Maine Central. There were some changes in later years, but the yellow PRR livery is something I'll never forget - saw one sitting on a siding way back when, and never forgot it. Finally purchased an HO version for my display case. Check out this URL for some great insights:
http://www.nhrhta.org/htdocs/images0701.htm

coalminer3 CM3 Glad the reciprocal info is appreciated. You've provided so much material for us, that our respones should be at least - well, reciprocal! [tup]

Your mention of the "South Wind" brought to mind the comments I made above regarding the "East Wind." This place does that to ya - INFECTIOUS! [swg]

Ted Your Email was received and a reply has been sent. Thanx! [tup]

Frequenting the Rat's Patoot Room eh [?] Nothing that a massage from one of our gals couldn't cure! [;)]

The evolution of how we got from back then to today with passenger railroads does create a bit of anxt for sure. Especially if you happen to be someone who has experienced the pleasure of traveling in those beauties of old.

Perhaps there's still a number of folks who feel that way about the trans-Atlantic passenger liners- The Queen Mary - Queen Elizabeth - SS Constitution - SS Independence - Ile de France - and the "baby" of 'em all, the SS United States, along with so many others. [yeah] Those were the days for sure when it came to traveling "in style."

Catch ya later - and - watch for the next iteration of my Fallen Flags series. I think you'll like it! [tup]

Oh [yeah] - it's Fish 'n Chips Nite and the Manager has duties to attend to! [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Anonymous]

Mornin' one and all. First, my sincere sympathy to Rob, Heather and Family for your loss. Grans are always very "special" in our memories and affections. These are their parting gifts which they bequeath us for all time.

Tom, I think it will be the decaf Folgers this A.M. and I'll snag a couple of Nova Scotias on a toasted Bagel w/cream cheese. Say pwolfe, is that anything like the (also provencial) breakfast request you made? Good Posts, all about the stuff that bonds folks at "Our" Place into one "heck" of a unique group. Oh Tom, I'll send a qualifying message on the "junque" tack later today. And, while we are at it; I agree there is nothing positive to be gained by "bashing" Amtrak. After all, "its all we have." [tup] For some of us, it is more how it came to be that hurts the most. Your previous suggestion of "safer" climes for a rail jaunt is certainly rational. However, there isn't a thing "rational" about Rita which could impact the S.W. and Mid West as well.[:O] Please everybody, stay safe and "keep one eye to the sky" for good measure.[tup]

Likewise for me on any and all U.K. R.R.ing Pwolfe and Nick.. Gee's, I hope no one feels inhibited in sharing their "Classic Train" lore hereabouts. Aren't there enough prejudiced "barriers" these days?[xx(] There may not be a lot of input on narrow guage but I haven't heard a disparaging word yet. Looking forward to more on those classic "beasts of burden" in future posts.[tup] For sure, the scenic settings alone are real "Topic stoppers."[^]

Okay, afraid this reply hasn't been very informative but the "spirit" is in the right place.[:D] Boris, if you will kindly had me my umbrella, I'll...you were using it as a bellows to start a fire? I see! I'll exit via the Rat's Patoot Room as inconspicously as possible.[:(!] See ya soon.

[coalminer3]

Good Morning All; Round for the house, coffee for me, please. Let me know when we need quarters for the jukebox. Weather here today sunny and warm - going to be in the upper 80s. I love it because the furnace sleeps quietly in the basement. Enjoyed reading the recent posts re Scotland, Canada, and points in between. Also appreciated the information on CN/CP RDCs.

There has certainly been some traffic on the forum recently re the Atlantic Coast Line. Those of you that have not read Richard Prince's book on the ACL should try and get a copy. You'll enjoy it.

The train of theirs I recall seeing most was the "South Wind." It carried a bunch of sleeping cars, including a pair of 4 section/4 roomete/5 double bedroom/1 compartment cars between Chicago and Sarasota and Chicago and St. Pete; not something you saw every day.

The City of Miami was not too far behind with a Chicago-St. Pete 3 double bedroom/3 compartment/1 drawing room/lounge car (again a configuration that was not that common).

work safe

[siberianmo]

THURSDAY’s NEWS & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Mornin’ All! Time for a hot cuppa Joe, something special from The Mentor Village Bakery pastry case, and perhaps a light breakfast ……. [tup]

We still have two regulars either away for awhile, or iffy, so for those of you who have stepped up to the plate – THANX! [tup][tup][tup]

COMMENTARY Again, we’re looking to ensure some regularity with our Postings, so these are the times that will greatly help us remain “up” on the Forum:

6 AM – Noon – Noon – 6 PM – and 6 PM – Midnight. If each of our regulars were to make at least one Post in any one of these slots, we’d continue to maintain our “health.”

News of the Day:

(1) Tonight is Fish ‘n Chips Nite along with our anticipated special on the Nick’s Picks Menu Board. Check it out – [dinner] Dinner begins at 5 PM (all time zones – don’t ask how we do that! [swg]

(2) Index pages for Fallen Flags Posts:

106 - SP
108 - MoPac
109 - WP
110 - Frisco
112 - CNR (fallen only as a passenger carrier)
114 – ACL

Additionally: Heralds of the Fallen Flags are on page 112 and Passenger Train Nostalgia #1 on page 113.

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Sep 2005, 00:49:23 (114) Wednesday’s News & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Sep 2005, 06:56:37 (114) Fallen Flag – ACL

(3) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 21 Sep 2005, 08:09:17 (114)

(4) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 21 Sep 2005, 08:43:25 (114)

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Sep 2005, 10:02:11 (114) reply to coalminer3 & Theodorebear

(7) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 21 Sep 2005, 12:01:09 (114)

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Sep 2005, 12:33:51 (114) repy to Theodorebear

(9) passengerfan Al Posted: 21 Sep 2005, 15:07:17 (114)

(10) pwolfe Pete Posted: 21 Sep 2005, 15:08:02 (114)

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Sep 2005, 16:08:10 (114) reply to passengerfan & pwolfe

(12) West Coast S Dave Posted: 21 Sep 2005, 17:12:36 (114)

(13) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 21 Sep 2005, 18:02:26 (114)

(14) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Sep 2005, 19:07:37 (114) reply to West Coast S & Trainnut484

(15) passengerfan Al Posted: 21 Sep 2005, 19:14:04 (114)

(16) pwolfe Pete Posted: 21 Sep 2005, 22:00:29 (114)

(17) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 21 Sep 2005, 22:44:28 (114)

(18) Gunns Kevin Posted: 22 Sep 2005, 00:45:45 (114) D&RGW info

(19) siberianmo Tom Posted: 22 Sep 2005, 07:24:45 (115) reply to: passengerfan - pwolfe - trolleyboy - Gunns

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[siberianmo]

Hi Gang!

Just some quick replies before the SUMMARY goes out .....

passengerfan Al Thanx for the round! [tup] I'm outta the discussion ... said just about all I can on the subject! [swg] To do otherwise is to turn this thread into what I detest so much about the other Forums with the incessant Amtrak bashing .... no thanx! Some interesting points of view have been put forth and all opinions respected. [tup]

pwolfe Pete I've traveled aboard trains powered by steam, back in the '40's. Not that many as I recall - but the coaches were hot, hot, hot and the windows, dirty, dirty, dirty. All wasn't really that "charming," however, in looking back, somehow it takes on a totally different perspective. Now I'd be willing to travel great distances and pay some real bucks to ride 'em again! Strange, this fascination with steam loco's! [swg] Thanx for the info! [tup]

I've never had the opportunity of watching very many steamers in operation, as you described. Now that would be great fun too.

By by the by, I'm heading downtown this AM to purchase my tix for our Amtrak trip. [tup]

trolleyboy Rob Condolences to your wife and family regarding the loss of her grandmother.

I don't consider Amtrak a Classic, however when one turns back the pages of time to explore the beginnings and the impacts on other passenger roads - then it "fits." So, in that regard, there's agreeement. We both witnessed what occurs when this subject gets out of hand - no fun.

S-Helper makes some nice "stuff" for S-gauge/scale. While my railroad - now called S Capades thanx to Nick is saturated insofar as additional equipment is concerned, that S-9 more than likely will be well done. For me, I stick to the roadnames that apply to my pike - S-Capades is represented by MoPac and IC - that's it. Undoubtedly there are those who just snap up whatever is offered and wind up with a hodge podge of loco's & cabooses (they HAVE to match!). Not me .... anal that way! [swg]

Gunns Kevin Stay tuned - I've got a Fallen Flags segment coming up on the D&RG .... The name, Silverton should ring a bell for earlydiesels Dan as it happens to be included in the name of his favorite song by his favorite singer - The Silverton sung by CW McCall ........ Thanx for the info! [tup]

Time for the SUMMARY!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Gunns]

Evening all

Coffee and Ham and swiss, please
and a hand full of what ever pain meds youf got, I over did it a bit today at the "Work site".
As for Fallen Flags, How about the San Jaun extension of the D&RGW, All steam never did have a Deisl prme mover on it.



route; Atonito Colo to Farmingto NM, branch to Silverton Colo

Name train "The silverton" (still running on the D&S)

Main line train was the San Juan Express

Power were the K series, K27, K28, K36, and K37s all 2-8-2 Mikes with inside frame drivers and counterwieght at the rods.

Mixed frieght, Silver ore, and cattle

Reminents are the C&TS, and the D&S both still running The heaviest Narrow gage steam in the world.

Gunns

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Tom and the gang. I'll have a cherry brandy and a round for the house to celebrate Heather's Grans life. Pete and Tom Thank -you for your words, they are apreciated. We are planning a suitable celebration of life for Barb on Saturday.We had recieved the news of her passing during dinner. appropriatly i had Heathers Mom and dad and her sister over for dinner so we were all together. Now back to our main subject at hand. Tom and Dave and al I too have learned things of Amtrak that i had not known. Funny that we can talk of Amtrak as a classic, but I suppose it's formation is a matter of history past.Hopefully the company itself dose not become extinct, I beleav that that would be a grave misfourtune for the US. CM3 It is interesting to note that CN tended to try out new locomotive classes on the CV. Many new deisel types were first torture tested on the CV and GTW. I've seen many a shot of brand new Cliners, geeps and RS types hauling the varnish and freights over these roads generally months before their appearance on the lines in Canada. Torture in the hills before use on the prairies and flater bits of Ontario and Quebec. Some of this was due to the fact that the initial diesel units were purchased from the US plants before the Canadian counterparts had the patterns and production ramped up. Indeed customs laws dictated that some of these units could only run in the US ! I miss the Green and yellow of the early CNR, one hopes that in their infinate wisdom they may choose to do a few "herrtage paint jobs " Tom and Dave I noticed in the oct MR that S helper service is bringing out an SW 9 switcher. The photo showed a beautifully painted B&M minuteman painted unit. Given time you may yet get the F units that you so desired. Pwolfe The scots are indeed luckey that so much steam power can still be brought together for those steam fests. We in North America need to learn from this. there is but a handfull of preserved functional steam here. True work of groups such as gunn's and Barndads and a few here in Canada are slowley changing this but more needs to be done in my humble estimations. I do however remember riding CNR 6060 the last of the functioning Bullet nosed u2 mountains when it ran excursion service from Toronto to Niagara Falls in the summers. Thankfully 6060 is still doing yeoman service albeit in private hands out in Alberta. They even ran a double header excursion with the squamish based Royal Hudson 2860 in the late eighties. Apparently 2860 is on its way back to life the West coast rail society is starting the restoration efforts with an eye to returning this Hudson to it's former glory. http://www.wcra.org take a peak if you are a steam buff. I have again updated my traction shots with some more raret shots of our museums not quite so regularly used equipment. Shots will be found on page 7 of the album. Well gentlemen those of you possibly in the weathers way please be carefull. I'll drop by again tomorrow. Rob

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom And all

As I am to talk a bit about Scotland can I have an ORKNEY'S DARK ISLAND please[tup].

In the west of Scotland beneath Ben Nevis is the town of Fort William it is connected to Glasgow by the West Highland Railway. 40 miles on from Fort William is the line to a fishing port named Mallaig. A single track railway with passing loops steep climbs,viaducts mountain scenery and running along side lochs. During the summer months THE JACOBITE steam hauled train runs this route six days a week. It has been a great success. There is usually two locos used mainly of the mixed traffic 4-6-0 types although some 2-6-0's have been used. As there is not a turn-table at Mallaig the engine has to work tender first back to Fort William. The noise from the stack as it climbes out of Mallaig through a rock cutting from the car window, next to the engine's front, has to be heared to be believed. Each exhaust beat like an explosion in the ears.

After the season ends in September they run a railfan special to get the locos back to their home base. In 2000 a 11 day Steam Highland Festival was organised which I was fortunate to go on.I will have to check up on one or two details from a friend in England as my notes are still over there.

[wow] I've forgotten how strong this Orkney ale is or should it AWKney ale now PETE.

[passengerfan]

Good Evening Tom, Guess it's time for another CR and a round for the house.
Just wanted to throw some additional coal on the fire regarding my contention about Santa Fe almost opting out of Amtrak. The fact was Amtrak got over 440 passenger cars from AT&SF more than any other RR that joined Amtrak. The SCL was the only other railroad to supply in excess of 400 cars to Amtrak. The PC supplied just over 300 and the BN,UP and SP combined supplied about 450 cars.
So as one can see Amtrak certainly needed Santa Fe more than Santa Fe needed Amtrak. And remember some of those former AT&SF cars still operate today on Amtrak the Hi-level lounge cars now operated as Pacific Parlor Cars. Santa Fe kept their equipment in tip top shape due to the nature of the speeds their trains were operated at. Many miles of the AT&SF mainline were equipped with ATS (Automatic Train stop) so 90 mph running was the norm. If a RR is going to operate at those speeds than the equipment must be well maintained.
Remember Santa fe was one of those RRs that believed passenger trains reflected on the entire RR so they always maintained a best foot forward. And not all of their trains made money but AT&SF was ready to take that risk and only after urging by Amtrak diid they finally decide to go with the Government passenger carrier.

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Guys!

West Coast S Dave You may recall a Post I made a few pages back of Gordon Lightfoot's "Canadian Railroad Trilogy." Says it all regarding connecting a nation from sea to sea by rail - kinda like your thoughts. Well done! [tup]

Your comments regarding the "availability" issue with S scale is precisely what my chagrin with it has been. Great looking, for sure - but not enough of it in terms of selectivity.

Trainnut484 Russell Always appreciate seeing that F9 in KCS livery - beautifully done! I've got a shot of her from the window of an Amtrak train back on St. Pat's Day 2005. Your photo really brings out the details. Thanx! [tup][tup]

Also enjoyed the insight regarding the Santa Fe and the use of the "Chief." Once again, learned something new, and pehaps never would have known if not for this thread! [yeah]

My readings of the situation amongst the U.S. passenger roads in the days right before they departed the landscape is that the parent roads simply wanted out. Now that's now what the railfans of today want to believe, but the profit wasn't there. Not one of the "signature flat" roads made any money from passenger service - not a one. Of course the decisions of the federal government, the courts and yes - the unions - really helped screw up the works. That's a given Nevertheless, if left to "natural" devices - we still wouldn't have those roads today. Automobiles on expanded highway systems along with air travel simply overtook 'em all.

Amtrak - love 'em or not - they are all we've got. Hope they - or something more innovative and modern - continue on. I'd simply hate to wake up one day in America to find that we no longer have long distance passenger trains.

Enjoy the evening!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Trainnut484]

Good afternoon Tom and all. I'll have a Miller Lite please. I'll try to stay a little longer this time [;)]. Nice information about the ACL.

Regarding the Santa Fe's reluctance to join Amtrak, it was pointless financially to keep the varnish running. The Santa Fe ran their passenger trains with great pride and service until the last day. Amtrak needed the passenger equipment from all the roads it replaced in passenger service, and that resulted in colorful consists since Amtrak didn't care if it mixed Santa Fe and UP or other roads together. Shortly after Amtrak took over Santa Fe's passenger operations, service declined on the Southwest Chief to the point that SF told Amtrak to discontinue using "Chief" in the name, because they didn't want the poor service to reflect on their proud heritage. I remember nbr 4 (LA-ChI) being late due to being stalled on Raton Pass because of lack of motive power. Santa Fe had to provide one of their own locomotives to help out. Amtrak changed it to Southwest Limited. It took about ten years for Amtrak to bring service back up to approved status. Then Santa Fe allowed the reuse of "Chief" in the name.

Since there was great response of seeing the KCS F9 in those classic colors, I'll post another pic of it. I guess a sort of "Hump Day photo fun" [:D]. NO NO Boris, not THAT kind of hump day. [V] Sheesh.

Enjoy [8D]


Pwolfe Pete, I would also be interested in hearing about Scotland's classic trains.

I'll have another Miller Lite please

Russell

[West Coast S]

Afternoon Tom and the gang...A round for the house to atone for my recent silence.

Regarding the par excellent fallen flag additions and a personal opinion from viewing the anadotes that one must admire the audicity of the ACL for choosing purple and silver for its early passenger livery. My devotion to modeling the SP would be seriously tested if the correct S scale model for these early E units were to be produced. Too orginal not to like, 12 to the foot or in 1/64.

Hope you enjoy this orginal.

Once upon a time only the wilderness existed

Persons of bold and daring vision forsaw the great potential inherent in the land and the endless possibilities of a nation determined to prosper

Once upon a time iron rails, laid by the stout labor of many, hewed solid granite, bridged the mighty rivers on frail trestles and braved winters ravages and unbearable summers and personal hardship to cut a path where none existed.

Once upon a time Baldwin, Cooke and thousands more supplied the needs that were so vital as to cause one to wonder if the industrial age concided with the developement of the American railroad or did the railroad spur American industrial developement , one nation working together for a common cause regardless of creed, religion or wealth, in times of peace and in the darker periods of depression and war.

Once upon a time, pride and customer satisfaction was the creed of the railroads. A time when engineers and conductors wore bow ties on starched white shirts complete with bowler hats , the timeless uniform of the Pullman conductor and always the warm, heartfelt greeting or the friendly passing wave and the everpresence smile.


Once upon a time the wail of a steam whistle and the rush of exhaust in the night, beckoned all to ponder what lay just over the horizion and set alight the inner yearing to to be free from the burden of the everday, mundane routine.

Once the common, it is now but a passing fog upon the mist of time, yet the eipic tales of yesteryears remain just within reach of those with a desire to recall what once was and can never be again, the Golden Age of American Railroading.

Dave [tup]

[siberianmo]

G'day pwolfe Pete

By all means DO share your insights regarding Scotland and its steam trains! [tup]

By the by - you have Email - at least 3 .....

A bacon sarnie [?] Sorry - that doesn't even come close to ringing a bell! [swg] We serve only the best sandwiches in the county 'round here during lunchtime and throughout the remainder of the day - hoagies/grinders/subs/heros - whatever name you prefer - we've got 'em. Made with the freshest meats in these parts and freshly baked bread from The Mentor Village Bakery. [tup]

Bathams we've got! [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[pwolfe]

Hi tom and all.


A pint of Bathams and a bacon sarnie if you have got one please [tup]



Great insight in to Amtrak by TED and all.

In 1971 the standard guage steam scene in Britain was not too good, with British Rail finishing with steam in 1968 and a ban on preserved steam locos on the main line, which was lifted a year or so after and fortunatly has gained strength. Some times there are as many as three main line steam tours on a single day. The standard gauge preserved lines were just finding their feet in '71 with very few operating compared with today. But ;71 was a still a good year to see some of the first generation of B.R. Diesels.

Yes TOM there seems to be something very special about travelling by train in Scotland speically with steam, single track lines past desolate moors and serene lochs with the locos reflection in the loch and exhaust echoing of the mountainsides.[wow].

The longest train on B.R. is the Caledonian sleeper which is quite like the Classic Trains consists discussed in the bar. It has 19 cars mostly MARK 3 sleepers with 2bar/ lounge cars. It departs London Euston on six nights a week and runs to Edinburgh where it splits into three portions Aberdeen, Fort William and Inverness.

I can give some details of steam in Scotland if you gentlemen would like[tup]

ROB .Sorry about Heather's gran. All The Best PETE

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon Tom , Guess I'll have a CR and better give a round to the house.
Although the BN was just a year old at the start up of Amtrak they were still running a fine stable of trains. There was the EMPIRE BUILDER and NORTH COAST LIMITED between Chicago and Seattle/Portland both first class dome equipped streamliners. The WESTERN STAR/FAST MAIL and MAINSTREETER were operating St. Paul to Seattle and Portland with cross platform transfer in St. Paul to and from Chicago. One INTERNATIONAL was operating round trip daily between Seattle and Vancouver. Their were still three Seattle - Portland trains althouh one was a UP train. The CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR ran only between Chicago and Ogden with cross platform transfers to the CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO to and from Oakland. The DENVER ZEPHYR one of the finest streamliners in the land and the last long distance full service streamliner to enter service was still racing overnight between Chicago and Denver. The former CB&Q was also providing service between Lincoln and Kansas City, Kansas City and Chicago, Lincoln and Chicago and Chicago and Minneapolis. Service to Texas had alreday been discontinued from Denver as were the Lincoln - Billings trains. Service between Winnipeg and Grand Forks was operating connecting with the WESTERN STAR/FAST MAIL. And their was still Twin Cities - Twin Ports service daily. A lone RDC was providing service between Havre and Great Falls daily in each direction.
Service was not what it once was but those trains were in top condition and the BN and surplus cars to draw on for peak travel periods. The pendulum had swung as it was no longer the pro passenger carrier the individual roads had been (GN,NP,SP&S, CB&Q, C&S-FW&D). All of the Budd built cars for the GN and NP along with the CB&Q cars went to Amtrak along with many of the P/S built cars. It was interesting to note that even though the merger had taken place a year prior to Amtrak not a single complete train set received the new BN paint. A numberinng system for the BN passenger cars had been devised but few cars had new numbers applied.

[siberianmo]

Hiya Ted

Now the Amtrak picture is getting brighter .... your info, along with what I've found thus far in my browsing, has filled in many gaps quite nicely. Thanx! Recognize that sometimes opinions do in fact parallel facts, it's just a matter of verification. Just the way we anal types are .... [swg] Figures that the very government responsible for the demise of the passenger railroads, would create an entity designed to save passenger railroading, but at the expense of the remaining few trying to roll on. <yikes> Must have been W's fault, donchathink [?]

Don't follow you at all regarding your reference to Junque Meister and junk Am I missing an inside joke or something [?]

Enjoy the Lowenbrau ....... love that shade of blue! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Anonymous]

Hi again Tom, its about time for a nice chilled bottle of Lowenbrau Dark. Yes, to my knowledge, AmTrak was a "stop-gap" measure when deregulation of R.R.'s came about because many roads were losing heavily due to the very same "regulations" that were previously in place phew. As I understand it, some Roads were still solvent in the passenger market and would have maintained a few schedules if left to their "choice" as to which trains, which markets and the "make up" of the consists. Before AmTrak, the Fed made it mandatory for money losing "full service" consists be included based on the areas served (sq. miles); schedules (times enroute); ridership (estimated) and a whole plethora of details yielding an index of which schedules must be served and what the consists must include. When so many major Roads opted for discontinuing service, it then was clear that the few "hold-outs" could not maintain the expense of way buildings, staff, crews, et al. The obvious solution was for the Fed to simply loosen their existing paralyzing corporate taxes and "death grip" regulations on
ALL the private Roads. Then, the Fed could step in where needed to subsidize, e.g. the North East Corridor and other vital routes piece meal. There are many more nuances before and after Amtrak was formed. This is only a "bare bones thumb nail" of my understanding of how things have come to such grief today. No doubt, other and better input will be in future replies. AmTrak isn't the villain, only the scape goat for Federal bureacratic meddling gone mad.

[#oops] My ride is due for a social committment made that I dare not mention lest I be labeled a Junque Meister.[:O] Love the ACL "Fallen Flag" data![tup] Keep 'em comin' Tom, keep 'em comin'! YEAH

[siberianmo]

Good Morning!

What a way to start the day .... a very early morning visit to the Dentist (no harm, no foul [swg]) - No mention of my very early morning Fallen Flag - ACL by our morning visitors - Arggggggh! And once again I see Chris is lurking in the shadows ... but no Post! [%-)]

coalminer3 CM3 Some info regarding the RDC in use by CPR and CNR:

CNR initiated testing of a BUDD RDC-1 on Feb 16th, 1951 for service between Montreal and Ottawa.

CPR initiated BUDD RDC service, on a trial basis, between Montrreal and Mont Laurier, on Feb 1st, 1953.

In 1953, BUDD RDC's became mainstays on many Canadian routes. CPR called them Dayliners, whereas CNR referred to them as Railliners..

Thanx for the round and continued dialogue! [tup]

Ted Regarding the Amtrak discussion: Somewhere in what passengerfan Al begun, I'm lost in the translation. I have been laboring under the impression that Amtrak was only created for one reason - to ensure a degree of continued passenger rail service due to the demise of the "signature flag" roads. No [?] How do they warrant the status of villan in all of this [?] I've surely missed something. Then again - as I stated earlier, I'm hardly an Aficionado regarding Amtrak's history. Perhaps I better dig through the cyber archives ... I'd rather go with fact than anecdotal.

That fall rail trip of yours perhaps should be planned for an arera not anticipated to be in the path of any hurricanes! Good Gawsh Gertie - what a season! C'mon up to the mid-west - surely we can conjure up something that would qualify ....... [swg]

See y'all later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Anonymous]

Hi Tom and gang, just enough time for a quick "un-leaded" and a toasted English. Some really fine posts of late which jolted the gray matter under the "gray matter," under my gray engineers cap and goggles. Passengerfan Al's comments on the "possibilities" if Santa Fe had demured from joining AmTrak, surely inspired some provocative speculation. Since the price of "round fare" is the same for "one and all," I would like to conjecture that Santa Fe, left to their own choices, could have made a positive difference [certainly] in the Southwestern U.S. quadrant. I say this because I always believed AmTrak granted disproportionate leverage to the "high volume" routes alone. In my opinion, Amtrak in typical bureaucratic fashion, could see only the "hole...not the donut." Two major fallicies were: one, independent Road "choices" were not an option; and two: federal econonmists, not railroad execs., had the final word. In other words, AmTrak was doomed from the beginning (my opinion).

Wish I could stay longer but a number of [#offtopic] issues demand my persoanl attention. They are the sort of things that some would describe as "junk." Taken to the next level: imagination, levity, nostalgia and comaradrie fit into the same "pigeon hole." Taken to the final level: It follows that only builder's plans, route and time tables, mergers, profit & loss reports, data and stats. should be considered "in order." Wait a minute! Did I just describe a "Forum" or a URL? Okay Boris, hit the bell for "Junque's" old time sake. Happy rails[:D]

[coalminer3]

Good Morning All:

Round for the house and coffee for me, please. I was looking through the summaries and enjoyed the comments about the CN. My experiences re the CN, until I traveled to Canada were largely confined to seeing their power on the Central Vermont. CN diesels used to show up regularly on CV freights which made for interesting trains.

Once I got to travel to Canada I found both CN and CP folks to be helpful, especially to "out-of-town" folks.

One thing I remember is being at Woodstock, NB, standing in botomless mud, taking pictures of a wide variety of equipment. One of the employees said to me, "If you think this is fun, you should go out to the West End in the winter." I have been to the west end, but not in winter - that's something on my "to do" list. I looked up an ancient CP timetable in the stack of stuff and discovered that there was RDC service through Woodstoack in 1961. The line ran between McAdam and Edmundston. CP gurus can shed more light on this, but did not CPR call their RDCs Dayliners? Anyway, McAdam had a revealing footnote in the timetable, "Meal station where food and news supplies can be obtained at city prices." Woodstock also had a similar footnote.

All of which brings us to Smiths Falls; a fascinating place if you have never been there as it was served (still is, for all I know) by CN and CP. Back in the day CP had an engine facility and I remember showing up there at 3:00 a.m. one winter night/morning afther driving up from Watertown, NY in a delightful snowstorm. The night man, who sorts resembled Boris (seen it all, done it all, has the scars to prove it) looked up when I came in the office and asked permission to go out and take pictures, puffed on his pipe a couple of times and said, "I don't care, just don't fall in the hole where the enigines go 'round and 'round," and went back to his paperwork. I nearly froze to death but got some beautiful slides. People treated me well in Toronto when I was there - it's hard to believe that Spadina is gone - and I got a walking tour through the Canadian when they were making it up in the coachyard. I can see I better go find the notebooks and see what I can put togther on this.

Last thanks for the kind words re some of my posts.

Have a good day.

work safe

[siberianmo]

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Atlantic Coast Line

Headquarters: Jacksonville, FL

Route mileage in 1950: 5,528

Locomotives in 1963 (all diesel-electric):

Freight: 170
Passenger: 62
Dual mode (freight/passenger): 234
Switchers: 119

Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars – 28,847; Passenger cars – 405

Principal routes in 1950:

Richmond, VA-Tampa, FL, via Jacksonville and Orlando.
Wilson-Wilmington, NC
Wilmington-Pee Dee (Florence) SC
Winston-Salem, NC-Florence
Florence-Atlanta
Brunswick, GA-Montgomery, AL
Birmingham, AL-Waycross, GA
Albany-Dunnellon, FL
Jacksonville-St. Petersburg, FLA via Gainesville, Leesburg and Trilby
Dupont, GA-Naples, FL

Passenger trains of note:

East Coast Champion (New York-Miami)
West Coast Champion (New York-Tampa & St. Petersburg & Sarasota)
Tamiami Champion – Predecessor of East and West Coast Champions
Florida Special (New York-Miami & St. Petersburg)
Miamian (Washington-Miami)
Vacationer (New York-Miami)
Havana Special (New York-Key West, FL)
Palmetto (New York-Savannah & Augusta & Wilmington)
Everglades (New York-Jacksonville)
Gulf Coast Special (New York-Tampa & Ft. Myers & St. Petersburg; formerly Havana Special)

Of note: North of Richmond, RF&P and PRR handled passenger trains.
South of Jacksonville, FEC handled trains bound for Miami and Key West.
SAL handled trains headed for Miami south of Auburndale, FL in 1963.

Other carrier’s trains destined to Florida, such as the City of Miami – South Wind – Flamingo – Dixie Limited – Dixie Flyer – Seminole and Southland were combined with named ACL trains.

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]