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"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD! Locked

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Posted by pwolfe on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 10:59 PM
HI Tom and all.

A pint of the usual and a round for the house please.

Many thanks DAVE RUSSELL AND TOM for the railroad wars posts [wow][yeah].You can almost smell the cordite.Thanks TED for starting the subject. It seems the railroad builders were a law to themselves in them days.In England there was a lot of inter company rivalry in the early days. When a line had running powers over another line the signalman (dispatcher) for the owning railway often would delay the others trains as much as possible.

One of the worst examples was in Nottingham a Midland Railway stronghold. The Great Northern built a line to the outskirts of the City and running rights to the CIty center over Midland tracks, where they built a depot and engine shed. One night early on, after the G.N.engine was shedded for the night, the Midland removed the tracks thus stopping the G.N.services untill ordered to replace them by the courts.

On the subject of MOVIES. The first film I was taken to the cinema to see, was an American film. Which I think was called THE GREAT LOCOMOTIVE CHASE or something like that. This would be in the early to mid 50s I think the locomtives were fairly modern steam locos not the early Western type although I could be wrong. No doubt one of the regulars can help me here. [tup]

Hope you enjoyed the Newcastle Brown NICK[tup] liked the description of the services on your layout a bit different from the S&D railway. Thanks for the eggs and HP sauce.

Hopefully one day TOM we can have an OUR PLACE outing to OLD BLIGHTY armed with 1st class Brit-rail passes.

One for the road please LEON and OK I'll buy a small packet of nuts for AWK but I'll let BORIS give them to him [:-,] PETE.
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 9:35 PM
Hey Guys .... I just noticed that something's not quite right on page 128 - lots of Posts are missing. Wonder what's up [?] Surely we haven't "transgressed." Shouldn't be anything to worry about - I think it's more of a "glitch" with the site. Wait it out until the morning - then I'll pursue it.

Okay - Part II - it's now 10:26 PM and things are normal on page 128 ..... Gremlins! [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 9:24 PM
Hello All!

If I could put these past couple of days worth of Posts in a jar, I sure would! What a great outpouring we've had since the "air was cleared" on Monday, both here and by Email. Many heartfelt thanx to those of you who are making this fun to particpate in and with! [tup][tup][tup]

Nick One of the more humorous times I spent in a bar back in 'round 1967 was in NYC when Simon & Garfunkel's "Mrs. Robinson" was still on the charts. A couple of us were in a local pub in downtown Manhattan, and for whatever the reason (as if we neeeded one) each time that song played on the Juke - one of the guys would chime in - off key - but so funny it just cracked me up. All these decades have gone by, and I still laugh to myself about that outing! [swg] I do think that was right 'round the time I put my right hand into some "draft dodging punk's" nose earlier in the day. Called me a "baby killer." The cops were really nice to ME - not so for him. Oh well .......

There's an empty pig's feet jar over there by the Juke, filled with quarters - 5 plays for a quarter! Why are you spending your money [?] [%-)][%-)] The volume control is on the lower right side, or you can use the one behind the bar by the register! Geesh - you'd think you were unfamiliar with the joint! [swg]

Those Athearn wheel flanges sound like something to take up with their customer service people. Before they sold out, they had a pretty good system working. My suggestion is to begin it by Email and be persistent. A suggestion is to perhaps change out some wheels with equipment that you rarely operate - maybe those either on sidings or on display - at least until you can get some replacements.

That tale you confessed to regarding the funds from the tub would probably sound a lot better to me had I consumed a few more Coors Lights! [swg] Whatever works, mate! I know you're good for it ......... [tup]

By the by, I received your reply to my Email - thanx! And also appreciate your understanding about trying to keep our pix for Sunday Photo Posting Day! I may have misunderstood your intentions the other day when you mentioned a mid-week layout planning discussion ... Mea culpa.

Can't imagine you runnin' trains at the hour it must be in West Wales! But then again, why not [?] It's much more challenging with a brew in each hand! [swg]

Dave Now that's a great idea for use of the overpriced gold plated clapper - Awk could use a perch befitting his status 'round here. I like it - thanx! [tup][tup][tup]

[yeah] That would be a riot indeed if the "methods" of old were employed today between the railroads. What an imagination! [swg] The LE response would probably make Waco look like child's play. And that's not to denegrate the officers who put it on the line - mine is more directed at the so-called leadership of the day. Better stop with this while I'm ahead ....

Rio Grande, eh [?] I'll check that out on my Cinema search - I just KNEW it had a "ring" to it as I read what you Posted. Would be worth seeing again - given that it was so long ago that watching it now would be as if it were the first time.

Russell Good having you back at the bar on a regular basis! Things 'round here are much more interesting when the guys have interaction, don't ya agree [?]

Appreciate the info on that movie - Rio Grande or Denver & Rio Grande. Those kinds of stories surely make for great scripts!

In reading what you had to say, seems to me that the idea put forth over the years about the "greedy" railroads, surely takes on a different light when courts ordered this 'n that. Even the makeup of the courts in those days surely were as questionable and dubious as some are today. The more things change, the more they stay the same - someone far wise than I, supposedly said.

If it's Cindy you want to see - she comes back on at 9 AM tomorrow and Friday. Works 'til 5 PM, when Leon takes over.

Catch y'all later or in the 'morrow! Leon has the bar.......

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
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Posted by nickinwestwales on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 9:18 PM
O.K-for those of you,who like me,have nothing better to do at this time of night,sit back,let [4:-)]TOM fill your glass and I`ll try to put a bit of life into a pretty flat layout tour-The trains-well,I`m running 4 passenger workings at the moment-Bradford GO train (see notes above )--Walthers F40PH + Athearn 3-car bi-level set,"Northlander"---Atlas FP7a+3 M.P.Budd cars,"Northland" night train-B/mann F9a+F7b plus M.P.cars(bge,slp,dnr)-last and least plausible,"Algonquin Ranger" land cruise,--F40PH (Walthers again ) in VIA grey & blue hauling a very mixed 5 car set Also a number of freight workings,#410-ex Gravenhurst collects at all stops (B/mann GP35) #450-ex North Bay( O.N.R F.P7a+a-pwr & dummy -Atlas & Athearn),Detroit-Capreol( Totally bogus R.S.11,G.T.W.livery(M.P.),requires F9 (B/mann) ` pilot `to lift load up " the bank"-Burlington line locals handled by M.P. F2,G.T.W F3a also works in on Detroit-Toronto `Local`--switching and transfer work around Rutherford yard,back & forth to Don Valley yard and around and about is left with the 2 M.P GP9s,sure there are a couple of Northbounds I`ve missed out-ROB-ball in your court there------O.K--Thanks to anyone and everyone who has stayed with us so far,Leon,I believe you have the bar,moonlight mile for me,sleep the sleep of the just gentlemen,for who knows what tomorrow may bring,night all,nick[C=:-)]
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Posted by Trainnut484 on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 8:15 PM
Hello Tom and everyone. Darn I missed Cindy. Oh well maybe tomorrow, Leon I'll have a Miller Lite. Dave great story on the Santa Fe and Rio Grande war. I have a movie that I taped years ago on the Turner Classics channel or one of those classic movie channels called "The Denver and Rio Grande. I think it was made in the fifties or sixties. It's about the Rio Grande and it's surveyors competing for land with another road (I think it's a ficticious road). Anyway, it's a good movie.

I have a war story to share, and it's from my history of American railroads report I did for a college English class. The time of all this was in the 1830s:

The new railroads did not have it easy during their infancy. The canal and turnpike people saw their business dwindle, and turned to physical violence. They teamed into mobs and vandalized sections of track, and ambushed train crews while the train was stopped. Even the law made it hard for the railroads, by putting in stipulations for new charters. New railroads could not enter certain city boundaries to connect with other railroads, and a railroad could not haul freight when a competing canal was open, or charge lower rates. Some railroads had to pay the state anything earned over ten percent, even thought they have not earned a profit.

In some cases, a new railroad would be required to give back the line after a given time period. A New England state required railroads to pay every landowner the price he set on any given land. Of course, the small canal and turnpike towns that drove the railroads away ceased to exist. Three thousand miles of track had been laid by 1840, and tripled by 1850 in despite of all the loopholes the railroads had to jump through.

Definately rough times back then for building a railroad.

Another ML please Leon....thanks.

Russell



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Posted by West Coast S on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 7:56 PM
Howdy Tom... I suggest we donate the gold plated clapper to AWK as a perch, hopefully pecking on it won't produce a gold plated beak[:O]

True, somehow our railroad wars don't begin to compare with Cortez's wrath on
Central & South America, certainly not the conquest of the known world by Alexander the Great. I would imagine, somehere in every railroads archives, regardless of geographical location are similar stories, we are a proud and determined people and these were indeed exciting times in a young nation.

It occured to me in idle thought , Can you imagine, say , Conrail and NS retaining the services of hired guns and outlaws during the merger to suit their particular interests and greed? Can you imagine the Federal response to such activities, given the size and power of government today?

Tom...It was the subject of a movie, Rio Grande, I believe that's the correct title, too much smooching and other wow effects and not enough emphisis on actual events, heck ,if the involved persons behaved as dipicted on film the dang line would have never gotten built, but the local population would have increased tenfold...Nuff said [}:)]

Set 'em up for the evening..on me

Dave[8D]
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Posted by nickinwestwales on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 7:53 PM
Howdy fellow tipplers,just schlepped up to the village pub to see a man about a dog,as my old grandad used to say,and am sorry to record that their response to my imaginative efforts to provide a 3rd vocal part to Simon & Garfunkels greatest hits was,quite frankly, less than whole-hearted,call themselves a nation of singers......................soooo,whats new since I stepped out...............,just grab myself a bottle of Newcastle Brown Ale as there is an Englishman "In the chair" (Cheers PETE [tup]) and here we go-PETE-looks like you first up-bacon butties ALWAYS available,Heinz & H.P as reqd.-double fried eggs on request [tup][C=:-)],pic of Baldwin will be posted sunday-Tom has suggested freeze on mid-week photos,for reasons various,not least of which is increased loading time for pages (try M.R. "Weekend Photo Fun" on busy time.....like waiting for paint to dry)-Baldwins now-will have to go away and do homework. Baldwins then-from memory,Welsh Highland Railway -1,Glyn Valley Tramway -1,Ashover Railway -6 (poss. more )-have a useable shot of equivalent Hunslet 4-6-0t on plinth in the W.H.R(1964) car park,will add to list ([4:-)]TOM-I`d better start posting early for X mas here,starting to look like a three act opera).............and on the next stool along is.......... DAVE-Man-if they taught history like that in my school--I could SMELL the black powder--the only frame of reference I can find here is a much valued present from the Dad,a 1st edition of "The Authentic Life of Billy The Kid,the noted desperado" by Pat Garrett,sheriff of Lincoln County,N.Mex. edited by Maurice.G.Fulton--If I have the films right,he was the wee geeky guy with the glasses,who followed Garrett around-sadly,the frontispiece pic of young Mr Bonney himself is missing,but all the interstitial plates are still in place-some wonderful views of N.Mex way back when-and so different to the Hollywood version that people are supposed to accept,sorry,off-topic drift,......paddle desparately back to ..............[4:-)]TOM,another round for the steadfast here,and could you `goose` the volume on the juke-I`ve just fed in 3 whole dollars to hear the new stones album-a blinder,back to basics[^] The Athearn cars ( GO Transit box set ) have flanges so fine they look like a machining error,much of my rail is 30+ years old and well worn,also N.M.R.A standards not in use over here-.5mil diff. between B-2-B,for example between Brit & U.S off-the-shelf-----Model Power will run,as will cheap Bachmann--M.P. made in Jugoslavia,thus Euro std (14.2mm),B/Mann-wide wheelsets to use in either market--As to the small matter of my paying for rounds with money abstracted from the bathtub,guilty as charged-think of it as re-cycling in action---this way I can spend my earnings the way I used to-enjoying the company of like-minded folk-I will get round to marking it all up in "The Book" and passing it on to Herr Manager Kramer,as soon as he returns from Lazy Otto`s house of Monacles,Manacles and home cooked pie,whence he adjourned in a state of high dudgeon earlier after a chance remark concerning the lack of a good balsamic vinegar for table service-Such is the cost of life in the fast lane,..............gonna take a beer break now,see who pops up,back in a bit n
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 7:18 PM
Evenin' West Coast S Dave

In another life, a long time ago - I used to have business in Las Vegas on perhaps a quarterly basis over a span of a couple of years. It wasn't "fun' stuff - really was business. Got to see quite a bit of the "behind the scenes" stuff with the Casino guys and LE people. Some would think that's a strange combo - but there really was a good relationship for the most part. Story for another time and place .... Toronto in May 2006 perhaps.

Man oh man - if that story of the Santa Fe and Rio Grande is not in keeping with our theme 'round here of Classic Trains I don't know the definition! [tup][tup][tup] Almost has a Hollywood "ring" to it - like it's been made into a movie (probably Grade B), but the story line is sooooooo familiar. [swg]

People from other places in the world perhaps think of we Americans as violent with a violent history. Well, they are correct. But you know what [?] It's not so much that it's restricted to Americans - it's human kind - in my humble opinion. The Euro's can be really proud of themselves in history for the ravaging of South and Central America, plus Mexcio - specifically speaking of the Spanish "explorers." Then of course how about the "exterminations" of people that took place throughout Asia and Africa [?] Still going on as a matter of fact. Makes our railroad 'wars' look timid by comparison.

Thanx for the round - ring it again, Boris. [tup] By the by, Dave YOU are remiss in coming up with a "solution" regarding a "home" for our gold plated clapper. My suggestions are still "out there" .... what are yours [?]

Enjoy the evening!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 5:32 PM
G'day Gents!

Nothing like the power of suggestion - here I am watching the Astros beating the Braves 4 to 1 in the 4th inning while reading the Posts and the talk of beer has caused me pause. "Carol, a Coors Light please!" And there it is, in a nice frosty cold half litre glass from KCity's Golden Ox. Ummmmmmm. Power of suggestion wins again! [swg]

Nick Thanx for the rundown on your layout plans. There are so many "plans" out there that I think most of us wind up using our own iterations as we progress through the rigors of developing the layout of our dreams. At least I did.

By the by, what's the issue with the Athearns [?] Just curious. I used to be pretty much an all Athearn fan with my former pike. Once I put 'em all in display cases, I then went with Walthers Trainlline, Con-Cor, IHC and Rivarossi for passenger cars - AND - LifeLike Proto1000's for my RDC's. It wasn't that Athearn didn't "do it for me" it was more that I wanted the 85 ft size cars, whereas the Athearns were "shorty's."

Anyway, I'd still like to know what's available "out there" in the Ether world for track planning development ...

Appreciate, as always, the round! Boris ring it again! [tup] Wait a sec .... Nick is on the payroll - draws money from the tup upstairs in my private quarters. Hmmmm. Nah, he wouldn't engage in such activity ... [swg]

Pete As always, good info in your Post. One day - but who knows when [?] - perhaps a trip to the British Isles for railroadin' will happen! [yeah]

Glad you enjoyed today's installment of the Fallen Flags - Milwaukee Road! [tup] More to follow .........

Okay - Cindy has departed and Leon has arrived. So, I'll take my leave 'til later on! [tup] By the by - thanx for the round! [tup] Ring it again, Boris!

West Coast S Dave I see you there ... catch the response later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
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Posted by West Coast S on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 5:27 PM
Afternoon noon Tom and the gang...

Feels good to be to be done with Vegas.Shot of JWB if you please.
Afternoon...
Without further ado,,,,,Here for your enjoyment is what I know of one railroad war:

Upon reaching Pueblo Co, Santa Fe and the Rio Grande both sought to expand over the Continental Divide to tap into the valuable revenue from the mines and other sources. Both roads had different agendas however, Rio Grande envisioned a connection with the UP/CP at Salt Lake City, Santa Fe envisioned developing the Royal Gorge as a means to Salt lake City and future expansion to the Pacific Coast.

Engineers for both roads were aware that the Royal Gorge was the only route available, these same persons were also aware that there was room for only one line and that was tenous at best if the engineering difficulties could be overcome. Things came to a head upon reaching Pueblo with only a narrow canyon before them restricting progress.
The Silver panic of 1888 was in effect and the Rio Grande was suffering from cash flow and self induced legal complications and sought protection through the Lower Court while halting all construction.

Santa Fe took advantage of the situation and pushed surveyers into the Gorge, despite being admonished by the courts to cease all activity pending a decision as to ownership and right to build. Soon Santa Fe grading crews, in direct violation of the court order, were at work cutting a grade and erecting numerous bridges and laying several miles of track.

Rio Grande countered by ordering resumption of construction and leapfrogging survey teams from Big Sheep Canyon, south into the Gorge ahead of the Santa Fe crews who were working their way up from the northern end of the Gorge , also violating the direct court order, in such a enviable blocking position and with the case tied up in court, Santa Fe was seeking a quick fix to rid themself of the pesky intruders and claim exclusive rights to the Gorge and sought the solution through the employment of hired guns. Soon, Rio Grande countered by hiring their own militia. It wasn't long before fire met fire and armed Survey teams began confronting one another and employing explosives to undo each others advances as armed response became common place, though several were injured and considerable property dammage was done, no one was killed directly..

The Lower Court was livid at the gross disregard displayed by both roads and recommended to the Congress and the President that the the Army intervene to restore law and order, naturally the hired guns attacked the Army as well, with great loss among themselfs. A full scale investigation and investigative body was ordered by the US government to intercede and deterimine fault, penalities and recommendations. A moritorium was issued halting all rail construction in the United Sates until the investigation was concluded and all roads being subject to Federal review of their business practices.

Santa Fe and Rio Grande were forced to return to the court or be subject to Federal action for a legal solution. After twelve years of challenges and arguments the Supreme Court ruled the Rio Grande would have exclusive rights to the Gorge and dismissed Santa Fe's counter suit.

Santa Fe was served with a injunction and forced to cease any additional expansion into Colorado, Rio Grande was prohibited from expanding east into Kansas and was also requred to render payment in the amount of several million dollars to the Santa Fe for work already completed in Colorado, upon payment, Rio Grande would obtain ownership. Both roads were levied massive fines and restrictions by the court and the US Governement and subject to oversight for many years thereafter.


Ok, set em' up, round for the house!

Dave [8D]
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Posted by pwolfe on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 3:49 PM
Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams and one of Nick's bacon butties if there is any left.
I am glad you liked the link to the Immingham Tramway TED and TOM. Some of the trackbed of the Tramway can be seen along side the freight only line which serves the chemical works and refineries which surround the docks.There have been a few railfan tours along this line.I believe the Great Central Railway which owned the docks were considering buying some fairly large(for our loading guage) 2-8-0s from the U.S. to work the expected traffic from the docks, when they opened, but this never came to be.

Well NICK really great info on the 57 Midland American 2-6-0s. As I said I can only vaugely remember seeing a photo of one and I can't recall ever reading any thing about them so MANY THANKS. tup].
Do you know where any of the BALDWIN 60cm 4-6-0Ts are in the U.K.[?].

Thanks for the Milwaukee Flag TOM. The depot in Green Bay W.I. is now a Brew pub and restaurant with a great railroad flavour.

I see another Englishman has called in. May I get a round in for all PETE.
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Posted by nickinwestwales on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 3:45 PM
Right,were was I ,Ah yes,set em up [4:-)]TOM we could be here a while TROY-Hi hows life down in the garden of England-Now a canny chap like ROB might think of trading for pix of the K&E.S.R rail busses etc................enjoy your Guinness buddy,there`s another back there to wash it down [tup] MANAGER TED-It`s both better and worse than it sounds--actual hedge gone these many years and bank in advanced state of dis-repair,cut back and levelled, fence posts mounted horizontally on uprights to form retaining wall,nothing fancy,just grunt work-downside is that our side of the street falls within National Park boundaries and Missisnick is high ranking county environmental officer.........[:-^].....................So,with no little trepidation,onto a new tack with Our Place-midweek layout visit,and as it was my idea---looks like I`m in the chair right [4:-)]TOM-keep these boys filled up ,they will more than earn it--So origins and all that---The present work-in-progress is an enlargement of it`s predecessor,but with the wrinkles ironed out. This was a 12`x8` plan published by Cyril Freezer ( a sort of Brit Linn Westcott) back in the sixties. The design was a double oval around a central operating well,one of the long sides carried a junction stn with single track branches joining from both directions in a complex (6 turnouts,2 diamonds)double jn,the inner branch dropped away inside the mains to a "city" terminal whilst the outer climbed three quarters round to a "country "term. above the end board. I had to shoe-horn It down into 9`x7` which created some problems but generally much quiet fun was had. On moving to our current abode I found myself with 16`x10` of complete blank canvas[^] original design altered so that both branches threw off to the "North" of the jn with 3-track balloon loop in tunnel at "south" end,with upper branch now having intermediate station on former term. location with line extended to relocated term at opposite end. A branch runs back from the high line into 3 more staging tracks above the balloon loop. This proved to be as much as I can comfortably handle,in terms of both building and operation. At the time,I was operating a mid-sized (30 locos,40 pass 100frt )collection of British `00`stock,and was able to give a fair representation of operations on the Somerset & Dorset Joint Rly,between Bath & Bournemouth West,with the appropriate Bristol-Bath and Southampton-Weymouth connections,plus "The Pines Express" and summer excursion traffic ( the rule of thumb for late-era S+D exc. traffic is -anything pulling anything,as long as it`s dirty ). All was proceeding well when I woke up one day to find I`m a Daddy-some years later and,to qoute Steve Earle " I woke up with a brand new plan"--a body of Canadian stock had been aquired in the interval,the running qaulities of which astonished me. And to be honest I had rather lost my way with where I was going. So,before we know it,the buildings are off,some (minimal) track modification and a vast amount of poring over maps ( useful ) & dispatching sister with camera ( rather less so ) a transition is being effected-Bath(green park) will mutate into Allandale,the Bristol branch becomes the Burlington line,Midsomer Norton shimmers into Bradford, Poole becomes the York Uni GO stn,with the remainder of the yard area there a rather generic `North York`. The low level branch no longer runs to Hamworthy Quay,instead another generic facility `Rutherford Yard` provides the bulk of switching for the `metro` area. so far,all is working rather nicely ( although I`m having a few probs with Athearn Bi-Levels[banghead] ) and the staging tracks under `Bradford`[banghead][banghead] The aquisition of a computer ,last year,has allowed progress to take place at exponential rate-I KNEW that stuff was out there !!. In addition,it has allowed me to meet all you splendid folks[^] on which sluttishly sycophantic note I will stop and have a bevy or two,later,nick[C=:-)]
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 3:17 PM
G'day All!

Cindy take a break ... I've got the bar for an hour or so! [tup]

troybetts Troy An Email has been sent to trolleyboy Rob in your behalf. He has an evening work schedule and will most probably get back to you at "oh dark thirty" North American time, that is! [swg] And yes, we think the guys who frequent this establishment are first and foremost "proper train" people. Couldn't have said it better myself! [swg]

Nick I've seen a couple of our so-called regulars do that very thing - and never Post a word. Don't get it - don't particuarly want to pursue it any longer. I've done as much as I can to generate and maintain interest. From here on in, the hand that I play is the one dealt. [swg]

passengerfan Al The Fallen Flag series that I have authored are from railroad books in my modest library. At no time should anyone think of my submissions as being the end-all of knowledge, they surely aren't. The headings should indicate the period of time that the reference material applies to (mid-50's to mid-60's, most generally). So, for example, if a train had a name that doesn't appear for the mid-1950's, but was rather popular back in the 30's or 40's, that's why. These were never intended to be all inclusive - that's why the headings are worded thusly:
QUOTE: Passenger trains of note:
It all has to be taken in context.

One of the problems with any of these threads is that at times only "snippets" of info get extrapolated - that causes consternation, wouldn't you agree [?]

Any information that can be added, as in the way our guys responded to the B&O yesterday is most reflective of what I've tried to achieve with these Posts. Sorry if they don't measure up to everyone's expectations all of the time.

Well - on to more important matters. Boris ring the bell! Al has graciously bought the house - again! [swg][tup]

Cheers!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
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Posted by passengerfan on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 2:26 PM
Good Afternoon Tom Time for a quick CR and a round for the house.
I liked your Milwaukee Road write up but noticed one major named train was missing the COLUMBIAN. This train came into existencebefore the Olympian Hiawatha entered service and became the secondary train between Tacoma and Chicago. The COLUMBIAN was comprised of lightweight and heavyweight cars mixed together for most of its existence. Operated with 48 seat lightweight diners before WW II and head end cars. In its final years was a lightweight train with Geeps assigned for power in the non-electrified districts. Happened to have the pleasure of riding this train one time at the time when it carried a 14 - section Touralux car only. this car was the only sleeping car available on the train and part of the sections were crew dorm space. I believe this was about a year or two before the COLUMBIAN was discontinued. Rode the train from Seattle to Butte. Returned on the NP Mainstreeter another similar train the NP secondary Chicago - Seattle train although the NP assigned Passenger F units.
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Posted by nickinwestwales on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 2:18 PM
Chris Fournier I see you there.......!!!!!!!!-long time ol buddy,sit down and try one-Lagavulin isnt it? -shoot-your just in time-we were going to auction off your effects on friday
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 1:39 PM
Agenda has been checked and understood.The people here are proper train people anyway. I think Trolleyboy has visited my website before so he knows were I'm coming from!
Cheers.
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 1:25 PM
Hello troybetts Troy and [#welcome] to "Our" Place. First drink is on us, so Guiness it is. [tup] Haven't had a word with you since our jousting match over on the Garden Railways forum .... [swg] Good for the system, now 'n then.

No, I'm not suprised by anyone who comes through either of our front doors - always welcome 'round here - we just ask 'em to check the 'agendas' on the porch! [swg]

trolleyboy Rob is not only of of our regulars, but he's a Charter Member of our cyber bar 'n grill and also has taken on the awesome responsibilitiies of Chandler of the Bar. I'm sure he will pick up on your inquiry and follow through with the information you've requested. Rob is by far the most interesting, entertaining and knowledgeable young man when it comes to the subject he loves the most - trolleys. You've made a friend, mate .... [tup]

Stop by any time .....

Tom[4:-)][oX)]



Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 1:10 PM
Knock,Knock.
Hello everyone.Tom.You may be surprised to see my face at the door but I need some help from one of your regulars.
I believe that Trolleyboy frequents this bar and it's his help I'm after.
Is it possible for you to find me some photos of a PCC car that cover 360 degrees.This will hopefully be my next G scale scratchbuilding project.Anyone that follows my scratchbuild pursuits will know that I build only from pictures (it's more fun).If a figure is in the picture,all the better(scale).
Thankyou,Troy.
ps. any chance of a quick Guinness?
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 11:23 AM
G’day All!

Another fine start I see. Perhaps I should get to the responses, before they “stack up” on me ….

First – the Email

Thanx for your notes, Ted & Dave. Appreciate the support and as always, your interest in keeping this bar ‘n grill functioning the way it was intended. Thanx again! [tup][tup]

The Posts

Nick [C=:-)] Lady Luck may have smiled in your direction, but I had to mow the “south forty” this early AM and man was it ever wet. Made for a great time trying to bag it all. Oh well, what’s retirement for if one can’t complain about “duty” ‘round the home, eh [?] [swg]

Sorry, but I’ve lost a few pounds (18) these past several weeks – by design, and because of “meds.” Anyway, I’m trying to maintain my “new” waistline – so I’ll pass on those “heavy” menu choices, thanx! [swg]

I like that reference to Manager Ted and Calivn ‘n Hobbs! Works for me! [swg] Our local “bird cage liner” – AKA: local newspaper – has just begun reruns of the little brat ‘n his tiger. They say it will run about a month until they find something else to insert. They are all reruns, of course, but really entertaining stuff. The Cartoonist, Bill Watterson, appears to be the kinda guy that would fit in quite nicely ‘round here. Of course, we don’t know whether he has the foggiest regarding Classic Trains! [swg]

I’ve never really mastered the camera, whether it be 35mm or this digital thing of ours. Still locked in that “point ‘n shoot” mode, which of course is the kiss of death for digital photography – at least with my zillion dollar model. One nice thing is that if they don’t turn out the first time – zap ‘em – and try again. Now that’s the PLUS for digital as far as I’m concerned – given there is TIME for a “do over.”

Track plans would be an idea to pursue. I’d love to know HOW to create one of those for publication here. I’ve seen so many great looking ones, but don’t know how to do it. Sure, throw some bucks at it and I guess it could be accomplished. But I’m more interested in finding something simple and available on the net before investing money into something that is really a one time venture. Any ideas [?]

Manager Ted

Nice isn’t it [?] A crowded bar with the guys in synch, now that’s a good environment to be in. Only thing better would be to put some steel wheels on the place, hoist it onto the mainline, and call this a Tavern Car! [yeah][tup][tup]

Found this little “blurb” for you in one of my railroad books (The American Passenger Train):
QUOTE: One of the most widely appreciated improvements to passenger trains of the early 1930s was neither structural nor cosmetic, but “atmospheric.” Air-conditioning had made its Pullman Debut aboard 12-1 sleeper McNair in September 1929,and found another early proponent in the Baltimore & Ohio. B&O diner Martha Washington was the first mechanically air-conditioned car, and the B&O’s Columbian became America’s first completely air-conditioned train on May 24, 1931.


Being just my anal self, I researched the terms “railroad floodlights” and “railroad headlights.” The conclusion [?] Floodlights are for illuminating scenery and are in use with many dinner trains and referred to as such. Headlights are at the head of the train and illuminate what is up ahead. THE END! [swg]

Glad to see that Boris has taken such a “liking” to you and Dave Kinda keeps the bugger away from me ‘n the gals! [swg]. Those boondockers have steel toes, by the by, so watch out for ‘em. From the looks, it’s time to find him another pair (both LEFT) that are made for Cloven feet. [:O] [alien] I’ll have to check over at the Mentor Village Shoe Barn & Athletic Supporter Emporium, they seem to cater to the “odd ball” request.[;)]

Time to get back to the chores at hand ……..

See y’all later! [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 9:12 AM
That's what we like to see, plenty of action. And, early in the week makes it really a "red letter" start for the promise of setting a 7 day record. Just a "light breakfast" today with plenty of "Joe" and a rasberry Danish, please.[^] PHATTH! Not that kind of "rasberry" Boris...Cretin![alien] Passengerfan Al, I would be the last to add or subtract on your commentary. Now, I may be mistaken but I seem to remember flood head lights on the Great Northern Empire Builder dome cars through the Cascades. As I recall, it was a black, rainy night and the "lights" did little more than amplify the sheets of rainfall, "cascades" indeed.[:D] I've no doubt that B. & O. was the first, however. Wow, the 3 trains you mentioned are the trains I enjoyed so much while traveling home for Xmas leave while in the service. That's a real "warm and fuzzy" for me. All too soon it fell into an endurance marathon with trains running as much as 6 to 7 hours late, both ways. When the diner's cupboards are bare and club car libations spent; its time to make other plans.[:(]

Hey Rob, how 'bout pwolfe's URL and the really neat links? I must've been an hour or more scrolling, surfing and savouring this data.[tup] Thanks Pete, this is a treaure trove and a "keeper." Trainnut, you are probably correct about the "Clock" being the original. I was looking for the very ornate casting from which it was suspended. It looked nearly like a vest pocket watch fob. Hey, The Kansas City Star October 31, 1999 ran a "special edition" (section 'U') on the reopening of Union Sta. on Nov. 10, 1999. There are 8 full pages of memorabilia on the rehab and history. Perhaps it is available from the Paper's archives? BTW Pete, you don't have to spare me from your essay on the B. & O., when and if you can find the time.[:-^] And yes, I agree, those days of nearly dictatorial powers of management over labor were "over-the-top" even then. However, did the pendulum swing too far later? Moot point![:O]

Barndad, it won't be long before even the diesel shop will be "colder than a well digger's..." What then? Your place looks inviting for the lil' Gobblins come Halloween. You can always tell them the treats are around back.[}:)] Nick, replacing a hedge with a privacy fence are you?[V] Will the Village "covens" allow such an insult to the environment? I had to "moonlight" a clandestine meeting with a landscape man to remove an orange tree from my own back yard. Hate orange juice! Its the worse thing ever happened to Stolichanya.[(-D] BTW, what are a "Southern Yankee 0-6-0 tanks?" Sounds like a "contradiction in terms."

Yes Tom, BK's comments are "along the lines" of many a statement made since before this thread's inception. I rather imagine we will hear variations on this theme for quite sometime in the future. I gotta "hit the road Jack!" Its Fall cleaning time now and soon the house windows will be thrust wide-open after 5 months of being sequestered in A.C.![xx(] Boris, outstanding job of standing on my Florsheims with your Boondoggers all morning. Now, if you will go "out standing," I'll take my leave, thanks.[:(!] Happy rails all.
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Posted by nickinwestwales on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 8:06 AM
[4:-)]TOM-crossed in the ether again !! Concur R.E photo`s-might try to scan in some track diags. see if they take,take care,nick[C=:-)]
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Posted by nickinwestwales on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 8:00 AM
Well,Lady Luck,she smile today-can`t get fence posts `til tomorrow-so looks like I can steal some of that time back[^], -Looks like I`ve pulled down the breakfast shift,so-coffee`s hot,fresh & untouched by Boris-the tea urn is showing about 80psi,Mentor Bakery have outdone themselves on the pastries and the hot traysare groaning beneath the weight of bacon,sausages,devilled kidneys,black pudding et al. Tuck in fella`s-winter draws on (?) O.K-whilst you lot are quietly grazing I`ll try and decipher the jumble of hieroglyphs,random cursives and disjointed scrawl that constitutes my list of reply points,apologies to anyone overlooked MANAGER TED-ta for Calvin+Hobbes-The more things change the more they stay the same..! Designated Drivers are without doubt chosen men and as you know,revered by dipso muso`s everywhere. Hope your other diversions don`t prove too troublesome-now get that camera rolling [swg] [4:-)]TOM,again-fine camera work-has taken time to work through,hence delay in mention-absolute ton of top-notch "urban rail" detail for modelling refs. as well as fine train portraits-will have to zoom in on googlearth map thingy -see how close I can get-It`s not real-time so might even find you & PETE.....cute little depot building too PETE-data on M.R yankees slow but sure-apparently 57 in total from Baldwin & Schenectady (?)-Ordered due to lack of domestic capacity-poss. due to foundrys etc starting to re-gear for munitions work (WW1 anticipated well before the event) Seem to remember reading that they were delivered to Derby Works as "kits of parts" and assembled on site. Have it in mind that they were used in mineral traffic around the Nottingham-Derby coal fields but not reliable memory. Other "negative exports" were the 0-6-0t designed by U.S.Army transportation corps purchased by S.R. in 1946 (13 listed in 1962 with 1 break in number seq.) At least one 60cm gauge Alco 2-6-2t (Ffestiniog Rly`s "Mountaineer") and poss. as many as 2 dozen Baldwin 60 cm 4-6-0t,of which there are survivors--More as I get it ROB-nice stuff on operations around SW Ontario[tup][^]-you know the way to a chaps heart !! (straight through his ribcage according to missisnick..hmm.) have a postcard pic of Southern Ontario #4200 ( ex S.P GP9e ) at Cainsville ,Nov2001-lovely clean machine and quietly stylish livery-also enjoyed T.H & B selection-must find a way of sneaking a diverted working onto my C.N metals-that livery is to good to miss[swg] right the next 2 notes make no sense whatsoever,so onto-DOUG-man,that car looks to be a major labour of love-does everything have to be fabricated to order ?--Easy ,even for enthusiasts like ourselves,to overlook the sheer volume of effort required to get these old ladies up and about again,and keep them that way RUSSELL & DAVE -thanks for opening up those Western roads for us-I know precious little about my road of choice and less again about the others Good Stuff[tup][tup] O.K-that looks like most of it,best be about my chores for a bit,Boris is due for a scrape down and the barmaids require oiling & polishing N.B-will you please stop leaving boxes of live bait in the fridge-you`ve all seen the quality of the help round here. Back for more later,time permitting ,with some manner of layout profile (History-there to here seems a promising start-point) enjoy the day guys,nick[C=:-)]
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 7:59 AM
Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific (CM&StP) – The Milwaukee Road

Headquarters: Chicago, IL

Mileage: 1950: 10,664

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 803
Electric: 93

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 42.325
Passenger: 588

Principal routes in 1950:

Chicago-Minneapolis via Milwaukee and Columbus, WI
New Lisbon-Woodruff, WI
Minneapolis-Seattle & Tacoma via Spokane, WA
Minneapolis & St. Paul-Calmar, IA via Austin, MN
La Crescent, MN-Wessington Springs, SD
Rondout, IL (Chicago)-Madison, WI
Watertown, WI-Rapid City, SD
Chicago-Omaha
Manilla, IA-Sioux Falls, SD
Marion-Ottumwa, IA
Sturtevant, WI-Kansas City
La Crosse, WI-Sabula, IA
Des Moines-Spencer, IA
Chicago-Terre Haute, IN
Milwaukee-Ontonagon, MI via Green Bay, WI

Passenger trains of note:

Afternoon Hiawatha (Chicago-Milwaukee-St. Paul & Minneapolis)
Arrow (Chicago-Omaha & Sioux Falls)
Chippewa-Hiawatha (Chicago-Channing, MI)
Copper Country Limited (Chicago-Green Bay-Calumet, MI jointly with DSS&A railroad)
Midwest Hiawatha (Chicago-Omaha & Sioux Falls)
Morning Hiawatha (Chicago-Milwaukee-Minneapolis)
Olympian (Chicago-Twin Cities-Seattle & Tacoma)
Olympian Hiawatha (Chicago-Twin Cities-Seattle U& Tacoma; replaced Olympian)
Pioneer Limited (Chicago-Milwaukee-St. Paul & Minneapolis)
Sioux (Chicago-Madison-Rapid City, SD)
Southwest Limited (Milwaukee & Chicago-Kansas City
Tomahawk (Chicago-Minocqua, WI)
Varsity (Chicago-Madison)

Of note: From 1955-1971, Milwaukee Road operated the Chicago-Omaha segment of UP’s “Overland” streamliners including the City of Denver, City of Portland, City of Los Angeles, City of San Francisco and the Challenger.


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 7:32 AM
Mornin' Guys!

Some catching up I see for the late night and early morning visitors....

Trainnut484 Russell [yeah] Undoubtedly there's a wealth of info out there regarding the AT&SF. Go ahead and Post some of it ... that's the idea of these Fallen Flags - to generate interest and discussion. [tup] The info contained in the majority of the Fallen Flags comes from my library of hardcovered RR books (modest collection, really). If you'll note the "headings," the passenger trains are listed as
QUOTE: Passenger trains of note:
Thereby leaving the door open for further elaboration ....

I can relate to that comment about coming along a bit too late .... although we have a difference in generations, I too have those days when I "wish" that my adulthood could have occurred back when the streamlilners were commonplace. But then again, given the world's situation, perhaps I'd never have made it back from Normandy or an island invasion in the Pacific. Something to ponder, eh [?]

pwolfe Pete Love that story regardng Sir Winston and General De Gaulle! I'd prefer to think of it as absolutely "on the mark," given what history has told us about either character. Very humorous indeed. Thanx! [tup][tup]

Nick [C=:-)] Good to see ya 'round here at the start of the day - yes - we open at 6 AM, but that's for All time zones - (don't ask me how we do that! [swg]) Anyway, you were properly entered ..... [tup]

Just so we're on the same wavelength regarding pix - I'd prefer to keep 'em all for Sunday Photo Posting Day!. Layout dialogue is another thing and as you indicated, we can make it mid-week - your call. Problem with Posting pix at other times is that we always have a few who (a) don't read - and - (b) don't care to read! Follow me on this [?] [swg]

Good luck with the photo's and I'm sure that my Email will "signal" the arrival! [tup]

Okay guys - Cindy will have the bar (don't you just love that thought [?]) [:-,][}:)] at 9 AM, until 5 PM, when Leon the Night Man comes in. I'll be 'round, just to check on the Posts and keep things rollin'

See y'all later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 7:14 AM
WEDNESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Mornin’ Guys! Mid-week already and it’s time again for the “countdown” to the weekend! [yeah] Looks like The Mentor Village Bakery pastry case is chock full of fresh goods – the coffee’s hot ‘n fresh, and the light breakfast menu just needs orderin’ …. [swg]

Info for the Day:

Comin’ Events:

Saturday, Oct 8th : OKTOBERFEST!
Sunday, Oct 9th Sunday Photo Posting Day!
Wednesday, Oct 12th: The 6th month Anniversary of the creation of ”Our” Place.

INDEX

Index pages for Fallen Flags, etc.

Generic URL: Just insert the index page in place of “106,” copy ‘n paste ‘n “go,”

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=106&TOPIC_ID=35270

-or- insert the index page in the address portion of this page (at the top).

106 – SP
106 – MoPac
108 – WP
109 – Frisco
112 – CNR (passenger ops)
112 – CNR Super Continental Time Table
112 – Heralds of the Fallen Flags
113 - Passenger Train Nostalgia #1 “Start ups” 1800’s & early 1900’s
114 – ACL
115 – SCL
116 - D&RGW
117 – Passenger Train Nostalgia #2 Vista-Dome sleeper observation-lounge
118 – RI
119 – D&H
120 - PRR
121 – Passenger Train Nostalgia #3 Canadian Pacific Hotels & Lodges
122 – NYC
124 – A Tale of Classic Trains – BC Rail RDC trip
124 – UP (passenger ops)
125 – AT&SF
127 – B&O
127 – B&O Strata-Dome ad
127 – B&O Encor! ad

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 00:47:04 (126) Tuesday’s Info & Summary

(2) barndad Doug Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 06:16:54 (126)

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: -04 Oct 2005, 07:28:27 (127) reply to barndad, etc.

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 07:34:21 (127) Fallen Flag B&O

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 10:42:08 (127) Fallen Flag B&O – Strata-Dome

(6) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 12:32:35 (127)

(7) West Coast S Dave Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 12:47:29 (127)

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 14:03:08 (127) Fallen Flag B&O – Encor!

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 14:29:30 (127) reply to Theodorebear & West Coast S

(10) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 15:37:43 (127) B&O and Rules for Store Clerks

(11) West Coast S Dave Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 15:46:22 (127) B&O and Mission Bay

(12) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 16:03:22 (127) B&O, cont’d

(13) pwolfe Pete Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 16:13:45 (127)

(14) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 16:39:57 (127)

(15) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 18:08:54 (127)

(16) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 18:27:31 (127)

(17) passengerfan Al Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 18:50:14 (127) B&O info

(18) siberianmo Tom Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 19:53:18 (127) Catch up

(19) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 20:24:45 (127)

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by nickinwestwales on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 5:01 AM
Mornin` Gents-on the fly again I`m afraid,somebody seems to have stolen several hours out of my day.......how that work ? PETE-got a pic of the Mogul,just need to edit-Had also heard the Churchill anecdote-beieve it true as he was known for deep dislike of De Gaulle, back to U.S loco`s in Britain-will try and find pix of narrow gauge war-surplus Baldwins and Alco`s plus Southern 0-6-0 Yankee tanks BK-got pix of A.P.T & T.G.V,[4:-)]TOM-set the boys up with whatever they want-I`m off to take layout pix,look up traditional Canadian recipes--oh yes,also dig out 100` of hedge-bank and hump 80 half-round fence posts across the property [^] oh frabjous day ! will get back to the rest of you when time permits,be lucky,nick[C=:-)]
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Posted by pwolfe on Tuesday, October 4, 2005 10:15 PM
Hi tom and all.

A pint of Bathams. and a round please for the great posts today .

Many thanks RUSSELL for the Web- Site on Michael Gross and the Santa Fe [tup].

The part on well known people who are Model Railroaders was very interesting. I never knew Winston Churchill was a fan.It reminded me of a story about his funeral train.He was buried at the family home in Oxfordshire. He was taken there by special train hauled by his namesake locomotive Battle of Britain class #34051 from London Waterloo. Now the normal station for Oxford is the Great Western's Paddington.
The legend is that if the French leader Charles de Gaulle died before Churchill .Churchill's funeral train would depart from Paddington but if De Gaulle outlived him Churchill would make him go through Waterloo(named after the site of France's defeat to the British) . I do not how much truth is in this.

I'll have one for the road LEON thanks PETE.
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Posted by Trainnut484 on Tuesday, October 4, 2005 8:24 PM
Hello again Tom and all. Leon, I'll have my usual. This time I'm sans suspenders so a belt is doing well. Kinda hard to catch it on my stool [;)]. Tom, nice info on the Santa Fe. They operated more passenger trains than what you listed, and I would be here all night and two pages on the thread talking about them. Too bad I came along at the end of a great era in Santa Fe service. The Santa Fe ran their varnish with great pride and service up to the last day. I believe I did mention several pages back about Santa Fe prohibiting Amtrak from using "Chief" in the train name until they improved service.

Ted, I'm sure that is the original clock in it's appropiate place in Union Station. It's probably the best condition than it has ever been [(-D]. The 9 commandments of store clerks in 1905 came from my Business class book. It was mentioned as how businesses operated back then in the Human Resources chapter. I'm glad they don't work that way today. The B&O history info I mentioned above is from a research report on the history of American railroads I did for an English class (yes I did get an A for the grade). The whole report itself would take up four or five pages here in the thread, but I'll spare everyone[:D]

Another ML please Leon. No Boris, you can't use my suspenders for bungy jumping from the roof. I don't think that's listed as workman's comp in Tom's employee's benefit package. Thanks Leon.

Russell
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Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, October 4, 2005 7:53 PM
Evenin’ Guys!

Looks like I’ve got quite a bit to catch up and comment on, eh [?] What a complete afternoon and early evening this has been for ”Our” Place. Great interaction, the “return” of some familiar names, and of course, inclusiveness in thet Posts (well, for the most part!).

Let me address the last, first:

passengerfan Al Nice of you to stop by. We’ve had quite a few Fallen Flags and other interesting “stuff” since you were last in. Just “plug” in the page number you want to “go” to in the URL (above) and you can catch up really fast ….

Now – the information I Posted regarding the B&O advertisement was taken verbatim from my source of information, The Official Guide of the Railways – Aug 1956. To quibble over whether one should call the lights “headlights” or “floodlights” seems to trivialize the point of the Post. I seriously doubt whether the people who put that ad together were all that bothered ….

What you provided regarding the amplifying information, as always, provides a greater depth than is possible from the sources I have available, and perhaps anyone else who frequents this place of ours! You, Sir, are the Oracle of this Thread! Thanx! [tup]

Boris Ring that Bell – with the “proper” clapper! Al is buying! [yeah][wow]

Now to the beginning:

Trainnut484 Russell Nice to see you again. One thing I must ask right off, is did you see the Fallen Flag on the AT&SF that I posted this weekend [?] I don’t recall a comment from you – if you did, my apologies.

Thanx for the additional info on the B&O, no doubt you are making Ted’s ancient heart go pitty-patter! [swg]

That list of rules for store clerks is great! It’s surely something worth hanging on to. Some of us recall the times when Sundays really were cherished – and legally restricted for business activity. Of course there were exceptions, like Pharmacies and movie theatres! No doubt a few others – but I’m a “late comer,” in that all the changes quickly overtook us in the 1950’s to present times. Back in the 40’s however, Sundays were “hands off.” Something quite nice about that, in my opinion, that is! [swg]

West Coast S Dave

Thanx to you too regarding the additional B&O info …. Seems this particular Fallen Flag has really struck a positive note. [tup]

That’s quite a bit of information on Mission Bay, you are to be commended (again!). Well done. Didn’t have the foggiest that it is home of the Daylights …. But now we all know! [swg] You guys from California are really providing some wonderful insights ….. the differences in “styles” are actually complimentary. If I were an “editor,” I’d have the two of you working together, with me in the middle – just to keep it “on track!” [swg]

Russell [yeah] That “attraction” between one’s suspenders and bar stools has caused many a man some “grief” at home – late for supper, etc. [swg]

Thanx for the “history lesson” regarding President Lincoln’s funeral train, et al. Nicely done. [tup]

pwolfe Pete

Appreciate those URL’s that you provided. Some nice looking “stuff” and undoubtedly Rob will salivate over all of ‘em! [swg]

My guess is that Al will know the whereabouts of photo’s of the B&O floodlights/headlights …….

Theodorebear Ted

This has been a Banner Day hasn’t it [?] The B&O surely has resonated well with the guys. I think this Fallen Flag has generated by far the most responses and additional info of the 15 that I’ve Posted thus far. [yeah] 15 of ‘em!

Your comments are very much appreciated and in a way pretty much along the lines of what we read from BudKarr BK yesterday. [yeah] We’ve got a special bunch of guys ‘round here and it’s fine with me if we remain “as is.” But, no one or nothing stays the same. We just have to roll with the changes and ensure that our “core interests” remain uppermost with the Postings. The idea is and has been, Classic Trains while having some fun discussing them! [tup]

I have to yield to Russell regarding the clock you referred to at KCity’s Union Station. I’m not sure that I’ve ever seen it or know where it “should” be.

Okay – looks like I caught up …..

So, I’m gonna watch the Yankees and Angels in their opening playoff game on one of the three large screen TV’s in the back…..

Leon has the bar! [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, October 4, 2005 6:50 PM
Good evening Tom Tom for a quick CR and a round for the house. Have to get ready for mid-term exam on Friday.
Just had to add a note on the lights atop the B&O domes they were actually locomotive headlights not floodlights. Their were four headlights placed ahead of the dome at different angles to provide the widest lighted area possible. When the trains entered populated areas at night the dome lights were turned off so as not to startle motorists or the drunks staggering home from the local bars. They were the only domes equipped with lights for night time viewing. The five B&O domes were three Budd built those operated in the CAPITOL LIMITED and SHENANDOAH and two Pullman Standard buit domes for the COLUMBIAN. On the forward bulkhead of the P/S domes at the head of the aisle was a speaker a speedometer, clock, temperature gauge and Barometer. These were the only domes to have all of these features. Thw Budd domes were originally built for the C&O CHESSIE the train that never was and would have been used as family room cars on this daylight streamliner. The B&O remodeled the cars for sleeping car use after purchase and they featured 5 Roomettes 1 single bedroom and 3 compartments. The COLUMBIAN domes were 5550 HIGH DOME and 5551 SKY DOME. The Budd domes were 7600 MOONLIGHT DOME assigned to SHENANDOAH and 7601 STARLIGHT DOME and 7602 SUNLIGHT DOME assigned to the CAPITOL LIMITED.

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