"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[Anonymous]

Oh my gosh, I plumb forgot! I was looking for "The Clock" in Union Station and saw a new one but not the old traditional one of "Meet you under the Clock" fame. Russell and Tom probably recall the landmark I refer to? See ya tomorrow.

[Anonymous]

And the good input on the B. & O. just keeps rolling in, doesn't it? Its certainly well deserved recognition from a historical view, and a whole lot more. First, Tom, let me "wet my whistle" with a Crown 'n' fresh soda, please. So long Cindy, see ya tomorrow. Yes, the B. & O. was the "road" of preference in the early days of passenger service. Their schedules to St. Louis and Chicage, et al. were not the fastest but (believe it or not) speed was not the primary value from the "turn of the century" until well after W.W. I. No, it was luxury: personal services, customer courtesy, dining excellence, cleanliness and even artistic appointments in natural woods, leather, fine carpentry, etc.

People of those times still attended Symphony concerts, cooked gourmet meals at home, hand polished their flatware and maintained their homes and private pocessions so they should last for generations to come. If you read Russell's Post on the 9 commandments for employees, you will see for yourself just what a different world that was. Employers (for good or ill) took on the duties of moral "chaperons" toward their staff. They wanted nothing to "tarni***heir good name" in the community. The railroads were no exception toward their employees and maybe even a "touch" more severe.

Hold the presses[:O], I need to make a "correction." Sorry Nick, the mistake of suggesting "mid-week" photos of member's layouts was unintentional. That was to your credit. Tom, thanks for the encore.[tup] Those blue and gray streamlined beauties have a special place in my rememberances of much better trains in a much, much better time to be traveling.[^] I guess we are all anticipating October 12th for our 6 month celebration. It isn't the number of Posts or even that "Our" Place has prospered for as long as it has. No, we celebrate because each of us finally found "safe refuge" from the bombast and bitterness from threads bent on false prestige, snobbery and "nit picking" to the extreme.[V] The strength of this "thread" isn't measured in numbers. I hope it never will be. The "elegance is in its simplicity," we all love our trains and just enjoy the heck out of sharing with those who desire the same.[2c] Okay Boris, I purchased a new Stein and all is forgiven and forgotten.[^] However, to be on the safe side, I'll ring the bell this time...ping, ping...you changed out the clapper again, I see[:(!] G'night all.

[Trainnut484]

Darn suspenders..aaarrrgghhhhh!

Ok Cindy I guess I'll have another one....this time a sandwich too.

Hello again Tom et all

Pete, the tourist railroad you rode on there in Santa Fe was the Santa Fe Southern. It is or was partly owned (I don't know if he still has part ownership) by TV actor Michael Gross (Family Ties, Tremors, and other shows). He is a Santa Fe fan and an award winning HO modeler. This site tells more about the Santa Fe Southern and Michael Gross's affection for the Santa Fe in greater detail:

http://members.aol.com/shadoemagic/mgross/mgtrains.htm

Now, let's try this leaving thing again...sheesh.

Russell

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom Cindy and all.

A pint of Bathams and just in time for the free lunch [:)][tup].

Thanks TED and DAVE for the info on the SANTA FE. Any more on the railroad wars would be much appriciated.

My wife to be took me to Santa Fe in November 2002. As a suprise she had booked us on the railroad in Santa Fe. I think it must be a tourist railroad. We had a trip out in a DOME CAR to milepost 2 and returned to Santa Fe on a Flat Car. The locomotive was Santa Fe Southern Diesel #93. I am afraid I do not know what type [*^_^*] I have my notes but can't find the photos over here(I know where the set is in England[%-)].)
The scenery was something very new to me.

TROLLEYBOY ROB I have some more info on the Immingham Electric Tramway .It opened in 1912 and closed in1961.I have not been able to find who built the cars,but I have found this web-site that has some photos.
http://www.leytransport.i12.com/imtram.htm
One car has been saved and is at the National Tramway Museum in Crich Derbyshire.
http:www.tramway.co.uk/smx/cms/home
I hope this is helpful.
[tup].

TOM I wonder if there is any photos of the Floodlights on the B& O in action on a moving train[?]. Reading these Fallen Flags it is amazing how many named trains called at St Louis.

Well the lunch was delicious thanks DAVE[tup].
See you soon PETE.

[Trainnut484]

Hello again Tom and all. Darn, I think my suspenders must've caught on to my stool again[:D]. Cindy, another Miller Lite please, and another round for the house...why not [:D]

A couple of more historical notes for the B&O. One of the first signs of the Civil War was on the B&O at Harper's Ferry Maryland on October 17, 1859. Captain Anderson, also known as John Brown, along with one hundred fifty men, stopped a train, and kept it from crossing the Potomac River.

President Lincoln had a passenger car built specially for him, BUT the only time he used it was during his own funeral. Lincoln's funeral train traveled on the B&O, departing Washington on April 21, 1865, and during the week long trip it stopped in Baltimore, Harrisburg, Philadelphia, New York, and other major cities along the way. At each stop, Lincoln's casket was removed from the car so mourners could pay their last respects. The funeral train's final stop was Springfield, Illinois.

Another Miller Lite please Cindy

Russell

[West Coast S]

Tom.... Ok I think i'm up to speed....

B&O, first charter railroad in America...Some of the cleanest-efficient steam designs, perveyers of the USRA series of standard steam, first USRA 2-8-2 was built for the B&O. Among the first to sample diesel power for passenger use. Aware of the importance of perserving it's history by founding the B&O museum, but alas, scrapped a set aside T Class Mountain and EM1 2-8-8-4 by mistake. Great choice Tom, brings back memories of being trackside and witnessing GP30's working coal up the Westside, just before complete Chessie takeover.


Today's topic is bit different then my usual:

Let's revisit Mission Bay on the SP in the days of steam


Mission Bay was located just south of the Southern Pacific's Third & Townsand Street station in San Francisco. Located within a wye, SP located a 110 foot turntable, garden tracks and six stall roundhouse and complete service facalities. Mission Bay was responsible for light repairs and running repairs for all motive power assigned to the commute fleet and served as a overflow shop for non- commute power and in addition, to being home base for several switchers that worked local industries

Mission Bay is best known as the home of the Daylights, GS-2,3,4,5's assigned to trains 98 & 99 the Coast Daylights, were serviced, washed and stagged on specially designated service tracks, Mission Bay was upgraded and improved specifficaly to service the new GS class in 1937.

Daylight crews had a crew lounge built to blatently announce to all their selection to Daylight service next to the garden tracks, complete with plant beds, fruit trees and paved brick walkways. Mission was capable of performing any level of repair, despite the demuntive surroundings and sparse resources. Once servicing was complete locomotives could be held or dispatched to storage tracks located at seventh and Harris Streets, at the approach to the station.

Skilled, selected personal would inspect each arriving GS or other power , perform any required service or running repairs. Hot wash with a kerosene bath, wipe down, steam clean the running gear, turn said engine via turntable or wye and be made ready to depart within three hours. Power used for other coast passenger trains, Lark and the mails for example, were likewise attended to by a assigned pool of Pacifics and Mountains in addition to the GS 4-8-4s that were kept in reserve.

The Mission Bay switcher was unique on the system and deserves mention:
One S12 0-6-0 assigned to hostler duties, was distingushed from all others by a unique Royal Blue boiler jacket, nickle plated rods and other refinements and was renowned for always being immaculate until replaced by diesels in 1942.

Mission Bay and the commute pool became a holdout for displaced steam by the mid 50s, power not normally associated with the Bay Area migrated off traditional districts
now assigned to diesels, to work off the remaining boiler time before retirement and scrapping. Displaced Cotton Belt 4-8-4's, MT2 class 4-8-2s, GS-1 4-8-4's were such examples of exotic power. Cab Forwards and SP Type 4-10-2's were assigned to Mission after Bayshore converted to diesel exclusively and West Oakland was reducing their facalities. The first time freight power was assigned to Mission.



Mission Bay performed it's final steam class 4 backshop repairs in 1957. Later that year the roundhouse was converted to maintain the Trainmasters.. By 1960 Mission Bay roundhouse would be closed with nearby Bayshore assuming maintaince responsibilities for the commute fleet. In 1961 the Mission Bay complex would be leveled and all trackage, except for the wye were removed. Today, the location of Mission Bay is buried under a mass of highway cloverleafs, Third & Townsand station and its associated trackage was torn out in 1975, fallen victim to the same highway project that forever erased any traces of Mission Bay, replaced by a more asture prefab station at Fourth & Townsand.

Dave

[Trainnut484]

Good afternoon Tom and rest of the regulars. Cindy, I'll have my usual and a round for the house[:)]. Tom, another great pick for a fallen flag [tup]. The B&O has the prestigous place in history as the nation's first railroad to carry both passengers and freight. It was chartered on February 28, 1827, and completed in 1830. The B&O was an instant success, because freight rates were cheaper than the turnpike's (dirt roads of course), and offered faster service than the canals. It wasn't cheaper, but the shallow waters froze during the winter months thus handicapping canal service. Then, believe it or not, the B&O operated everyday EXCEPT Sunday, which was observed as the Sabbath day. I think all businesses operated thay way back then. Just a footnote, and I'm going [#offtopic] just a leeetlle bit, but I think this List of Rules of Store Clerks dated 1905 fills us in on operating practices then for businesses. Some of them are humorous. I think Rule 3 was shared in some form by the railroads.

1. This store must be opened at sunrise. No mistake. Open at 6:00AM summer and winter. Close about 8:30 or 9PM the year round.

2. Store must be swept and dusted, doors and windows opened, lamps filled and trimmed, chimneys cleaned, counters, base shelves, and showcases dusted, pens made, a pail of water and the coal must be brought in before breakfast, if there is time to do it and attend to all the customers who call.

3. The store is not to be opened on the Sabbath day unless absolutely necessary and then only for a few minutes.

4. Should the store be opened on Sunday the clerks must go in alone and get tobacco for customers in need.

5. Clerks who are in the habit of smoking Spanish cigars, being shaved at the barber's, going to dancing parties and other places of amusement, and being out late at night will assuredly give the employer reason to be overly suspicious of employee integrity and honesty.

6. Clerks are allowed to smoke in the store provided they do not wait on women while smoking a "stogie."

7. Each store clerk must pay not less than $5.00 per year to the church and must attend Sunday school regularly.

8. Men clerks are given one evening a week off for courting and two if they go to the prayer meeting.

9. After the 14 hours in the store, leisure hours should be spent mostly in reading.

Hard to imagine a world like that today.

Cindy, I'll have another Miller Lite, thanks.

Russell

[siberianmo]

G'day Boyz!

I've been in the back room, checking out the Cardinals beating up on the Padres 8-2 in the 8th inning of their first of five Playoff Game. 'Round mid-Continent USA, the St. Louis Cardinals are in a word - adored. There's something about baseball in St. Louis - really mean that. I've lived in a lot of places; grew up in NYC when we had three - count 'em - three major league teams (Dodgers - Giants - Yankees) - lived in Boston - called Cincinnati my "home of record" for most of my military career - final assignment was in SoCal with the Dodgers - Angels and Padres. Just never have seen the likes of the spirit for the game in these parts. It's truly something special. [tup]

Ted How pleased I am that you found this iteration of Fallen Flags so special! My hope has been to at least "flick the switch" of at least one of our number with these Posts. Your happiness made MY day! Thanx ...... [swg] [tup][tup]

Also, the album pix for the KCity trip with Pete was a labor, but worth it. As can be seen, I enjoyed the day, got some railroadin' in and of course made a new friend! [tup][tup]

Dave Are you saying that "my fiver" got you one hundred on number 8 [?] [wow][yeah] Awwwwwwwright. We'll take you up on the free lunch until 4 PM (Central). [tup][tup]

I recall one time in one of the Casino's in Laughlin, NV - back in the days BEFORE it got over developed - I was at a Blackjack table, paying more attention to the gal next to me than the cards in front of me (happens!). It was about 2 AM - we were having a great conversation. She was winning big time, me holding my own. Oh well ...... no point in discussing this kinda stuff here! [}:)][:-,] Perhaps I'll fini***he story up in Toronto in May at our Rendezvous! [swg]

I'm going back to watch the game .... see ya later! [tup]

Cindy has the bar 'til Leon gets here - at 5 ......

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

Encor – Encor – Encor! Just for Ted ……… [swg] [tup][tup][tup]

More on the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad (B&O) of the Fallen Flags from The Official Guide of the Railways - Aug 1956


B&O DIESEL-ELECTRIC FEATURE TRAINS

CAPITOL LIMITED – COLUMBIAN – SHENANDOAH
Between Chicago, Pittsburgh, Washington and the East

NATIONAL LIMITED – DIPLOMAT – METROPOLITAN
Between St. Louis, Cincinnati, Washington and the East

THE AMBASSADOR
Between Detroit, Washington and Baltimore

THE ROYAL BLUE
Between Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia and New York

STRATA-DOME CARS*
On 3 Fine Trains

CAPITOL LIMITED – COLUMBIAN – SHENANDOAH
Chicago – Akron – Pittsburgh – Washington
Baltimore – Wilmington – Philadelphia – New York

(* In service between Chicago and Washington)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[West Coast S]

Golly good for Tom .. We are mission critical...Morning Nick, TrolleyBoy and all the rest of the gang.

There was specific quiries to my post of yesterday , so permit me to address thm first.
Who in tarnation made this coffee? Boris, you haven't been experminting with fire and dirt again? Spot of the real Juan Valdez please......

Nick..
Indeed the AT&SF orginally termintated in, of all places, Santa Fe, NM. The line was reduced to branch line status when the line was extended west around 1890 or so, bypassing its namesake in favor of a shorter, more direct route. Unsure of its current status, or if still intact, even money that , BNSF is no longer the owner due to SF selling or abandoning most secondary trackage in Arizona and New Mexico during the 1980s. A number of years the Spanish Style depot in Santa Fe was torched by vandals while awaiting a reuse decision, it had just been nominated for Historical Status, shame indeed.

TrolleyBoy.... That video producer is a new one to me, thought, I hunted them down pretty good. I've got a co-worker who has considerable video editing experience, i'll need his services to transfer several hours of raw, 16mm footage of the Sacramento Northern, near as I can determine it was taken in the late 40s. To real, my first venture into the world of railfan medium.

Tom.. Glad to see you back in the spirit, I knew that Boris hug was just what you needed.

Casino news, Tom I blew your eight to get one hundred at the Rio, is that ok? I suspect some questionable young female was vying for my attention at the blackjack table.. the kind that enjoys the men paying for her eveing.....I'm a astute person so I don't know why she thought I was so guilible to fall for her sad tell of woe....


Lunch on me for the next three hours, belly up and enjoy.. Bong..bong..clang, I see Boris is awake

Catch you again at the conclusion of my staff meeting
Dave [8D]

[Anonymous]

Outstanding! I'm just now catching my breath from scrolling previous posts, new pix, and visiting new "sites" made available by our stalwart membership.[^] Tom, what can I say about the Kcity "album" that hasn't already been lauded by all who have seen it? To say that it jarred my memory banks would be the "understatement of the year." I don't have the words to descibe my full appreciation. Let me say only, thanks friend for a "job well done." This is really "my day" because 4 of the B. & O. trains listed on Fallen Flags are "runs" that I made several times (Baltimore- -Chicago). What (premarital) memories!!! Cindy, make it a Wurtzburger Lager in my personal Stein; the one with the brass double eagle and hinged pewter cover, if you will please.[tup] You're lookin' great kiddo. Oh, hi [C=:-)] Nick, back from rehearsal so soon?[:-^]

Glad to hear that Saturdays (October) will continue to hono(u)r a great old tradition. It would be a shame to allow that eerie feeling of someone "looking-over-your-shoulder" to spoil "time honored" traditions and the attending fun. Rob, I'm not trying to rush anything on more pix. I just let my enthusiasm over-run my good manners from time to time. Dave, some great ideas and meaningful dialogue you send our way. The mid week photo session of layouts, etc. should be of interest to modelers and non modelers alike. Who among us can't appreciate the labo(u)rs of our Colleagues? Of course, this means that I must embark on an assingment about which, I know next to nothing...DUH![:I] Also, I need to update with new pix of changes and "improvements" I've made. My Pike will never be "finished" as such.[:O] Some "apparition from the past" will invaraiably over take my interest for something already "finished" and: CRASH! "There goes the neighborhood!"[swg]

Pete, just a thumbnail on the Santa Fe's history may provide some answers to your question. The Spanish Mission and trading post (Santa Fe, N.M.) was well established long before the U.S. claimed it in 1846 after the War with Mexico. Even before Cyrus Holliday ever began building his railroad (Charter 1859, construction 1886) the "Santa Fe Trail" was an established trade route west from Independence, MO. to Santa Fe, Old Mexico. Two cities in Kansas, Atchison and Topeka were the original name for the "R.R." but with further government land grants and private financing, the name "Santa Fe" was added thus: A.T. S.F.[tup] Nearly all of this "action" was near and around the present K.C., MO. area. There is much more colorful history including R.R. (shooting) wars between A.T.S.F. Southern Pacific and the D. & R.G. (later D. & R.G.W.) for ROW through New Mexico. It makes for a very good "read."[:D]

Okay, I know I'm leaving some replies op-end but I'll catch you up on later posts, okay?[swg] Right Boris, go ahead...Go ahead! BINK, tinkle tinkle. OUCH! Gadfrey Daniel, oh well, its not his fault. I forgot my Stein was resting on the bell frame![:(!] No Cindy, I'll clean it up.[bow] See you's soon.

[siberianmo]

More on the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad (B&O) of the Fallen Flags from The Official Guide of the Railways - Aug 1956

Thrilled travelers tell us “There’s nothing like the view from B&O’s STRATA-DOME” ….. Route your passengers via B&O and they’ll sing your praises too

Passengers traveling in a B&O Strata-Dome marvel at the thrilling panorama and natural beauty of the ever-changing scenery.

FLOODLIGHTS AT NIGHT

Powerful floodlight beams provide a novel view of the landscape after dark.

This exclusive B&O service between Washington and Chicago is offered at no charge!

Strata-Dome Dieseliners between

CHICAGO – AKRON – PITTSBURGH – WASHINGTON

The Capitol Limited (All Pullman) – The Columbia (Deluxe-Coach) – The Shenandoah* (Pullman and Coach)

THROUGH SERVICE TO AND FROM BALTIMORE, WILMINGTON, PHILADELPHIA AND NEW YORK.

*On the Shenandoah, Strata-Dome is operated on alternate dates. Available only to Pullman passengers on the Shenandoah.

BALTIMORE & OHIO RAILROAD

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Baltimore & Ohio (B&O)

Headquarters: Baltimore, MD

Mileage in 1950: 10,000

Locomotives in 1963: Diesel: 491

Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars – 59,152 Passenger cars – 654

Principal routes in 1950:

Jersey City, NJ (New York)-Baltimore, MD-Pittsburgh, PA-Chicago
Washington, DC-Point of Rocks, MD
Cumberland, MD-Cincinnati, OH-St. Louis, MO
Detroit, MI-Toledo, OH-Cincinnati
Hamilton, OH-Beardstown, IL
Pittsburgh-Buffalo & Rochester, NY
Akron-Cleveland, OH
Midland City, OH-Columbus, OH-Pittsburgh

Passenger trains of note:

Ambassador (Baltimore-Detroit)
Capitol Limited (Jersey City-Washington-Chicago)
Cincinnatian (Detroit-Cincinnati; later, Baltimore-Washington-Cincinnati)
Columbian (Washington-Chicago)
Diplomat (Jersey City-Washington-St. Louis)
Metropolitan Special (Washington-St. Louis)
National Limited (Jersey City-Washington-St. Louis)
Royal Blue (Jersey City-Washington)
Shenandoah (Jersey City-Washington-Chicago)

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

G'mornin' Gang!

It's gonna be 90 (F) here in mid-continent USA, then drop like a rock in a day or two - back to fall. That's just the way it IS 'round these parts. I'm not a "wooly worm" follower, but the indications are we are in for yet another mild winter with below normal precipitation and little snow. Yuck.

I noticed that we had 24 Posts recorded on the Tuesday's Summary - not bad for a Monday gathering. Seems like there were very looooooooong periods of nothing, then the crunch. Happens. Keep 'er going guys. [tup]

I'm still a bit overwhelmed by the outpouring from a couple of the guys yesterday - kinda puts things in a different light. I'll have to watch myself in the future ....... [swg]

pwolfe Pete Email has been responded to .........

barndad Doug Nope, we're not "into" outside decorations for Halloween. Although, what you've done looks great! [tup] Now IF that was your front door, the kids would have a problem getting to ya! [swg]

I suppose now we can refer to you as the "Key Man" at IRM, eh [?] Whaddyamean the Checkers II Tavern [?]! We are the place for you to eat, not the competition. Geesh! [tdn] Oooooooops, there I go again, mixing the real 'n cyber worlds. Weird, isn't it [?]

Think about what you'll Post for Sunday's Photo Posting Day! Looks like our once per week pix review is working fine and we appreciate your contributions.

For all: By the by - as I stated a couple of times yesterday - Cindy will have the bar from about 9 AM 'til 5 PM, then Leon the Night Man takes over. That's the schedule for this week. I'll stop in to check the Posts and "bunch" my replies accordingly.

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Anonymous]

Good morning Tom ... I'll have coffee grounds on whole-wheat toast please.
As promised, I took another goof-off-day from work to do some REAL work on our U30C at IRM. (Did I mention I have my own keys?) The only problem with working during the week is that our diner is not open, and that means that this cyclist has to bike into town for lunch. That's not all bad though, as The Checkers II tavern on Union Rd. has an excellent menu!
This may be the last really warm day we have in Chicagoland. It's been warm and muggy recently, with spectacular thunder storms and downpours recently. My Halloween decorations are up ... are yours?
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7191/2005halloweendeck2fg.jpg
Have a great day!

[siberianmo]

TUESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

G’day Gang! “Chewsday,” as some pronounce it! Check out The Mentor Village Bakery pastry case and our light breakfasts! Of course, the coffee’s hot ‘n fresh! [tup] By the way, for those old enough to remember Broderick Crawford, remember his TV show “Highway Patrol,” and his use of “10/4” [?] Well, today is “10/4 day!” [swg]

Info for the Day:

(1) For the observant – yes, I’ve changed the title of this segment from “News” to “Info.” Seems more appropriate.

(2) Did you know that DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME began on Sunday for those living “down under” in Australia – Tasmania and New Zealand [?]

(3) My 2005 railroad calendar for the month of October has a great photo of Union Pacific’s 4-6-6-4 Challenger #3985 at Sherman Hill, WY in Oct 1988 for a “photo run.” Beautifully restored machine for sure! [tup]

(4) repeat]Next Monday is Thanksgiving Day in Canada! We’ll come up with an appropriate menu item for our Canadian friends to enjoy. How about Back Bacon ‘n beer! [yeah] [swg]

(5) Wednesday, Oct 12th is the 6th month Anniversary of the creation of ”Our” Place. Plan to celebrate with us. [tup][tup][tup]

(6) Finally, our Saturday OKTOBERFEST celebrations will continue!

INDEX

Index pages for Fallen Flags , Heralds of the Fallen Flags and Passenger Train Nostalgia

Generic URL: Just insert the index page in place of “106,” copy ‘n paste ‘n “go,”

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=106&TOPIC_ID=35270

-or- insert the index page in the address portion of this page (at the top).

106 – SP
106 – MoPac
108 – WP
109 – Frisco
112 – CNR (passenger ops)
112 – CNR Super Continental Time Table
112 – Heralds of the Fallen Flags
113 - Passenger Train Nostalgia #1 “Start ups” in the 1800’s and early 1900’s
114 – ACL
115 – SCL
116 - D&RGW
117 – Passenger Train Nostalgia #2 California Zephyr’s Budd Co. Vista-Dome sleeper observation-lounge
118 – RI
119 – D&H
120 - PRR
121 – Passenger Train Nostalgia #3 Canadian Pacific Hotels & Lodges
122 – NYC
124 – A Tale of Classic Trains – BC Rail RDC trip
124 – UP (passenger ops)
125 – AT&SF

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 01:31:44 (125) Monday’s News & Summary

(2) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 07:06:57 (125)

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 07:41:29 (125) reply to Theodorebear

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 08:15:01 (125) Fallen Flag – AT&SF

(5) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 08:31:22 (125)

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 10:59:50 (125) reply to nickinwestwales

(7) BudKarr BK Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 12:09:48 (126)

(8) West Coast S Dave Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 12:35:40 (126)

(9) pwolfe Pete Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 15:38:26 (126)

(10) BudKarr BK Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 15:41:45 (126)

(11) uspscsx [?] Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 16:08:03 (126)

(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 16:40:16 (126) reply to BudKarr – West Coast S – pwolfe – uspscsx

(13) West Coast S Dave Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 16:50:01 (126)

(14) West Coast S Dave Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 17:49:32 (126) Open letter to Tom

(15) siberianmo Tom Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 19:08:49 (126) reply to West Coast S, etc.

(16) West Coast S Dave Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 19:36:46 (126)

(17) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 19:44:38 (126)

(18) earlydiesels Dan Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 19:48:34 (126)

(19( nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 20:02:40 (126)

(20) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 20:14:53 (126)

(21) siberianmo Tom Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 21:23:54 (126) reply to West Coast S – nickinwestwales – earlydiesels, ec.

(22) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 23:09:42 (126)

(23) pwolfe Pete Posted: 03 Oct 2005, 23:57:20 (126)

(24) siberianmo Tom Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 00:41:21 (126) reply to trolleyboy & pwolfe, etc.

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[siberianmo]

A late night (early AM) response - Rob Four rounds [?] Four! Now that's "springing" for the drinks if I ever heard of the term! [swg] Okay, Boris Let 'er rip! [:O]

Pete Email received and I'll respond in the AM. I'm gong to defer to the Santa Fe "Aficionados" for the answer to your questions ...... [tup]. Glad you liked the Fallen Flag.

Appreciate the 'endorsement' form both of you ...... not at all necessary. What is needed is to stick it out as a group when things get stressed 'round here. I believe the situation with the weekend was more of a case of limited availability on the part of our crew than anything else - really do. We had our "nucleus," albeit not quite as active as we'd like, but those things happen.

Gotta get the SUMMARY out .... it's got lots of "stuff" to read. Speaking of reading, I just re-read the Posts from today (which is really yesterday ....) and man oh man there's lots in 'em. BK and Dave really put their thoughts into words. Some powerful stuff indeed. Page 126 is one to read again.

See ya! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[pwolfe]

Hi tom and all.

A pint of the usual please.

May I add my thanks for TOM's hard work so well put by the regulars.[yeah].

West Coasts Dave Thanks for the info on the liverys.The Santa Fe warbonnet must be a contender for the most well known diesel livery of all time.It was very well known in the U.K. with the Tri-ang models doing a popular HO scale version.
Is it true that the town of Santa Fe is on a branch line and I was wondering how the railroad got it's name [?].[%-)] Hope to call in soon PETE.

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon a captain morgan's please. BK Your commentary is of coarse well said. You are right sir Tom need smore hugs and such from the lot of us. We do tend to take our fearless leader for granted sometimes,late email responces etc etc. If it wasn't for Toms tireless work and dedication Our Place would have been about as healthy as a DOdo bird[xx(] So Tom consider yourself hugged no Boris noooo Tom I'm getting your next four rounds no questions asked. Ted Thanks for the picture thumbs up. I only have the one shot of 416 uploaded on my railimages,more will follow I'm going to get a few internal shots etc. It will just take some time. I want to chronicle the progress on the car so that people can get the feel for what we do. This mini project is more for my museum thread but I'll certainly share the highpoints here as well. The museum's website has just one picture of the car i beleave with the car in service ib North York. Picture appears on the tiltle page of the website. Pete Thanks for the trolley talk. I would love to know the dispostion of those cars in the UK. I'm wondering if they were spme of the double ended PCC type. I know that ACF and ST Louis car did import several sub types of PCC's to europe. Mostly the spain and the netherlands I thought though. West caost Thanks for the PE story. I never had researched the US interurbans much some really fine info there. I have worn out a coupke copies of the NS&T story video tapes myself so I can understand the want of having an extra. I'm not sure if you have looked but there was a local ( Toronto guy Ray Neilson) who has done alot of trolley & interurban and bus type videos and DVD's.His company was called GPS videos. Ray was a member of our museum, unfortunatly he passed away during the summer so the films at the moment are unavailable. I know that he had produced several US ones as well. If you have any of his stuff hold on to it. It's gold at the moment. nick Your idea of a mid week layout tour sounds an interesting bit I await your start. [:D] Well gentlemen I will see you all tomorrow. Rob

[siberianmo]

Gentlemen!

All of this outpouring of support has rekindled the spirit1 So, since Leon the Night Man is behind the bar, I'll just pull up a stool and have a double JD on the rocks and impart a few thoughts .... [tup]

This place is called "Our" Place for a reason - those of you who make it go are the "our" in the name. So it only stands to reason that your thoughts and recommendations should have some weight - and they do.

OKTOBERFEST has been established - it is "set up," and the staff has been outfitted accordingly. So, for the Saturdays of the month - let the celebration continue! Ooompah rules! [tup] [swg] [yeah] [wow] If we can muster up just a couple of Posts (total) during each of the "key" 6 hour time slots, we'll be okay: 6 AM to Noon - Noon to 6 PM and 6 PM to Midnight. That's all it really takes. [tup]

Mid-week layout feature is a fine thought and one that could easily catch on. Let's do it! You're up first, Nick - just pick the Wednesday convenient.

Did you know that the 12th of October is our 6 month anniversary of the inception of "Our" Place [?] No kidding - time has flown. We need to make that a special date. Let's have that mini OKTOBERFEST AND ANNIVERSARY PARTY on that date. Dave, you're the man! [tup]

Nick - Dave and Dan, your comments and suport are greatly valued. By the by - Dan, this "thing" that has you down needs some medical attention. Hope you are getting it. Also, regarding getting the picures up on your PC - that is an oddity. Have you tried the refresh button [?] Yes, of course you have. Also, ensure you are logged in as well. Sometimes photo's and graphics are problemsome when not logged in; don't know why.

Dave Put a fiver on #8 for me! [swg] And, thanx for the twenty! That should cover the costs of some shackles to keep Boris in restraint. Hugs, [yeah] right! Another brilliant idea! [swg] Good fortune at the Casino(s). [tup]

Nite! [zzz]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[nickinwestwales]

I`ve just found my list of notes to respond to,sorry guys-it`s just going to have to wait `til tommorrow,in serious need of beauty sleep..(just ask mother -in law)--6th night of playing music in 8 days-only another 4 out of the next 5 to go[tup]...progress reports may be erratic,take care,regards to all--nick[C=:-)]

[nickinwestwales]

O.K-back with another random thought-how about an occaisional midweek layout feature to complement photo sunday,[4:-)]Tom has set precedent with the Can-Am & `S` Capades tours-would be happy to set ball rolling..........thoughts anyone...?.............[C=:-)]

[Anonymous]

Hello Tom. I"ll take something strong to help break loose all this crud in my lungs and stop the dry coughs, please.
I have tried to get page 125 to come up but my pc refuses to do so--so I am missing all the pix. Don't know why.
Tom is correct in that I have been at the railroad and sick both. A new job was started on the 19th after a period of inactivity so my postings have not been as frequent as I'd like for them to be. I used to roam other sites but now believe Our Place is where I belong. My hope is that this bar n grill will get back to normal and dust will settle and the regulars will weave recollections and memories while we have a good time. I feel the regulars are a great group and Tom needs a round of applause for keeping this going. I will check in with everyone later and if we should be locked out, let's try to stay in touch.

[nickinwestwales]

Gentlemen all,thank you for rallying to the flag-DAVE & BK-whilst the human members of the cast of `Our Place`are quite capable of speaking for themselves,on behalf of Boris ( & clan ),Leon,Cindy & the girls,Clueless & Doyle,the track gang,the Mountain Dew fishing & social club,and the so far undiscovered sunday night "Kingston Town" domino game in the back room----Thank you for the glowing endorsement.[^]!!!!!--We will endeavour to live up to it...nick[C=:-)]

[West Coast S]

Tom:

Ever since those blue pills, Boris has become quite fond of me. He will not be deprived of his hug.

I'm off to catch some shuteye and maybe hit some casinos tonight, the wallet willing!

Dave [8D]

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Guys!

It appears that one Bk started something today with his commentary. I am much taken into a rather humble state by the commentary now from Dave. What is there to say, other than to accept your words and carry on. [tup]

Dave I found a web site for the Arrowhead Water (company info):

http://www.arrowheadwater.com/aboutus/company.asp

Not to upstate your Post, but to compliment it. While I was in SoCal for my brief 2-year stint, I do recall this brand. However, never did I know of the history nor of the connection with railroading. Nor did I ever envision that 17 years later, I'd be talking about it through my computer! Amazing. Thanx once again for an interesting Post.

Some points to ponder regarding our regulars. I recall that passengerfan Al told us he'd be largely unavailable for a couple of months due to tax school. coalminer3 CM3 told us he'd be away for a couple of weeks, but maybe would be able to connect now ' then. drwatkins *** is on his Global business jaunt, and when he does Post, it's rather one-way in dialogue. earlydiesels Dan has either been away for the weekends and/or not feelilng well. Gunns Kevin has dropped off in terms of Posts, except late at night and those are disrupted because he's balooning in New Mexico. CFournier Chris has simply stopped communicating. We have our regular regulars Theodorebear Ted - nickinwestwales Nick - trolleyboy Rob and West Coast S Dave. The remainder Post when they can, and all of them are appreciated - really are.

The chagrin comes only when there is anticipation of response and it doesn't happen. That's no fun and really is something that I need to work on - not any of you. The frustration mounts when I see the cyber names of those who said they'd be away, either here browsing or elsewhere, but no Posts here. What's that [?] [%-)][%-)] I used to call this "Phantom Browsing," but that's a misnomer, indeed.

Okay, Boyz, that's it for me for awhile. Leon the Night Man has been here since 5 PM and will continue on 'til closing.

Boris ring the bell twice - once for the round on Dave and one for a round on me! [tup][tup] No, no Boris I really don't want a huuuuuuuuuuuggggggggg! [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[West Coast S]

OPEN LETTER TO TOM

Tom our postings must have crossed, I posted and there you were!

I'd like to contribute my [2c] to the Octoberfest diaster, I agree, it can be dishearting when you devote a tremendous amount of time to overseeing this group and ensuring we remain true to our purpose, somethimes just keeping the discussions fresh can be daunting. It's tough keeping so many diverse personalities on a single focus

Perhaps, the events of last Friday will cause some of those displaced to seriously commit to coming aboard and participate with the group and contribute to our REASON FOR BEING: CLASSIC TRAINS .

Tom don't get discouraged, I suspect were suffering growing pains, seems like only a short time ago we were all strangers to each other, now 126 pages and growing. You have my 100% support and I personally appreciate and applaud your efforts.

Boris, Tom needs a hug and a stiff shot of some 150 proof to revive him . Bong, bong, clang..
Ok, time to pony up some funds to keep this joint in the black, here's my 20 for the jar.
Alright Cindy, Rounds for the house, set em up please.

Dave [:D]

[West Coast S]

Afternoon, Pwolf, BudKarr, Guess, Tom has other affairs to attend to today, so we patrons need to keep it going. Monday's tend to be quiet around here on the usual. Round of JWB if you could Cindy. We have Cindy, where is Nick?

BuddKarr, UP had some interesting spins of the traditional harbor Mist and Armour yellow, once upon a time Leaf brown was the standard, prior to the Harbor Mist. Combinations of all three colors were not unusual, until the paint shop forces caught up.
Without dispute it it has remained one of the longest lived liveries.

The SF Warbonnet is tough to beat in terms of style and recgonization, thanks in large part to the Lionel F3 that perputated the image to the masses, the Daylight livery was more a symbol of the times, georgous in it's application and design, destined for a short life however.
The ACL, with it's bold use of purple as the main color and the SCL Citrus is a great example of two of my East coast passenger favorites.

Even my beloved PE had a unique Scarlet red hue applied to selected interurbans, parlor cars that displayed this shade of red also recieved pale grey roofs, dark red,white and orange pinstripes, lettering and were assigned to premier Commadore Service which ended in the 30's.

Today's topic

How did you get your spring water in the old days? We all are no doubt familar with the brand, Arrowhead Waters.. Yep, you guessed it, orginally a Pacific Electric enterprise.
As PE was extending it's hold on the Southern California transportation market, tourist and city dwellers were prime motivation for devloping resorts and spas in the mountains surrounding the LA basin.

To that end PE, in 1913 built a branch to access Arrowhead Springs, high above Pasadena, intending to develop it as The Arrowhead Resort to counter the world renowned Mt. Lowe. PE never completed the grading or surveys upon reaching the base of the canyon due to WWI, at the conclusion of the conflict and the impact of the automobile it was no longer ecnomically viable. PE was at a loss of what to do with the line, it generated some freight traffic, but was expensive to maintain, being subject to floods and fire every season .

PE entered into a agreement with Arrowhead Waters to complete enough trackage to access the springs. Arrowhead Water was intent on expansion to meet growing customer demand, but lack of adquate, reliable transportation facalities prevented growth. Except for the occasional special, the passenger days were done for the Arrowhead branch.

Arrowhead and PE entered into a mutual agreement to developed the springs to included facalities to transport bulk spring water in specially designed and built tank cars. PE assigned selected box motors at first and later steeple cabs to handle these heavy trains, as the box motors and steeple cabs wore out, leased Southern Pacific Baldwin S12s or the three PE owned GE 44 Ton switchers operating in mutliple did the honors. It was one of several PE freight operations that proved extremely profitable and one of the last PE domains in operation after takeover by the SP upon complete PE abondoment in 1960.

Dave[8D]

[siberianmo]

G’day Gents!

Appears as if Cindy has everything going well. I expect that Leon the Night Man will be here around 5 PM (Central) to take over for the rest of the day. This will be the schedule for bartenders for the remainder of the week. I’ll open up – Cindy ‘til 5 PM, then Leon finishes up. Remember – Boris does NOT work behind the bar! Don’t even think of it …. [swg]

Some comments appear to be in order from the attendance today.

BK Pleased that you stopped by. Given that we really don’t know much about you, can’t comment in that direction. However, what you do have to say is appreciated. I’m not too sure that I require the “vote of confidence” you put into words, but it surely is appreciated nonetheless.

Dave Don’t be too hard on yourself regarding the weekend – we all have lives, commitments and other things to do. My chagrin is and has been over the apparent disinterest that sets in. It’s my problem and I’ll just have to deal with it.

I’d rather let the OKTOBERFEST simply wither away …… I remember one of my esteemed leaders telling me that when people say they haven’t got the time, it really means they don’t want to. This was more in relation to volunteering for things like leadership positions with Boy Scouts, youth baseball and the like. Always okay for others to do it, but heaven forbid one should call upon “moi’! Anyway, thanx for the offer – but let’s just let it go. The interest just isn’t there. Next time I’ll know better than to be so optimistic – perhaps just a one day thing, if at all.

BK You have some keen observations of the Forums and my guess is you spend a bit of time browsing, without signing in. I haven’t noticed your “cyber name” lately. Be that as it may, yes – there are plenty of “users” out there. People who don’t abide by any particular set of procedures, or care to. Call it lack of protocol, for lack of a better word. I get a bit tickled when these same people howl ‘n yell when their “free” services are denied them. Good grief!

By the by, I remember visiting Grand Central Terminal and Pennsylvania Station in NYC many times as a youngster in the 1940’s with my grandfather. One huge drawback was that one had to go down into the labyrinth to see the trains, whereas in cities like Chicago – as you pointed out – they could be viewed in much better conditions.

Dave I have conducted a few searches for the VHS tape, “Mt. Lowe, The Railway in the Clouds,” but haven’t found anything yet. I must admit that it hasn’t been all that has been on my mind though. [swg]

Pete Good to see you – by the by, your Email was received and responded to. Hey Mate – Cindy has had the bar all day. Better get that prescription checked! [swg] Glad you enjoyed the pix from our trip. Turned out pretty well, eh [?] It was a fun time and we need to think about doing it again some time. [tup]

uspscsx I’d like to reply a bit more personally, unfortunately your Profile doesn’t give very much info to help us with. Anyway, it isn’t what our definition of Classic Trains, it’s probably whatever Kalmbach considers appropriate moreso than me. Anyway, ‘round here, we talk about the trains that are of the Fallen Flags variety, along with some current ones that have “origins” back to the “golden era” of passenger railroading. Best I can offer is for you to research our pages – check out our SUMMARIES then you’ll see where we are coming from.

So, now that I’ve gone through that – scroll back to page 124, about mid-way down, and take a look at what this thread is all about. Admittedly, there's a lot there, but it will "tell you" pretty much all there is.

[#welcome] Aboard! The first drink is on the house. Whatiillyahave [?] [swg]

Catch y’all later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Anonymous]

I'm back...despite lurking 5 other forums and the MR Forums being back up, I believe I'll drop by once a day and at least check things out.

I have forgotten who posted it, but the photo of the N Scale model of Union Station...WOW is all I can say. I think it was Tom...

I have a quick question: What exactly would you consider "classic" trains?

Well that's all for now.