"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[trolleyboy]

Good afternoon Tom and the rest of "youse" guys[:D]

It's rainy and awfull here so I figured I'd pop by before tackling some nagging projects in the train room.

Forts off I'll welcome Mike and John to the fold. I'm looking forward to sharing a yarn or two with you gentlemen. Mike family railway stories are always most welcome here so please do share [tup] I had a great grandfather that was a section man on the CNR based out of Palmerston ontario so I have the odd tale from my mother about her grand dad's rail adventures.


Tom Say it ain't so, there has to be more fallen flags somewhere ! seriously an entirly enjoyable series and I know the amount of heart and soul that you put in to them. You have to like the GM&O though mostly Alco power on their passenger trains at least in diesel daze. PA's and FA's to of my personal favourites. BTW anyone wanting some good Alco PA info JHHplanesntrains has an interesting thread going on the old D&H PA that is being restored,worth a read.

Tom I enjoyed our chat this morning nice to put a voice to the name if you know what I mean. [tup]


Nick glad I was of assistance in your timetabling ( not sure that's a word but what the heck we are with friends here ) Those old MDC's or Bachmans should do nicely.solid olive green with the duluxe gold lettering would be the paint job on those cars. Even the baggage car they used were wood, I'd say 53 foot cars likely 62 at largest. remembering that ancient 4-6-0's and 2-6-0's pulled these trains. They definatly were not heavy weights.

If you do make our spring get together the museum gift shop has some of Ian's books for sale. bring your charge card [tup][swg]

There is still a stub of the Alliston Sub on the CN side it runs between Totingham and Beeton- south Simcoe Railways steam excursion, The other track you are thinking of is ex CPR they do still switch into Alliston,Orangeville,and Erin. That's the old CPR Orangeville subdivision. We need someone to go as detailed into CPR's operations as Ian has with CNR


Your right on of coarse the Rebel route still runs just under different ownership.

CM3 Another fine renditon of coal mining in pennsylvania. It is amazing how much raw material for the building of the industrialized world came out of pen and west Virginia. Tom's right I hope the crators don't fill in,on the upside think of the new lakes and streams that would have been created.[swg]


Tom i still see that you are here let me buy you one of those blues I owe you.Another fine ATSF passenger advert by the way as well.

Rob

[siberianmo]

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #25

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Santa Fe (AT&SF) from a 1952 advertisement in my personal collection.


. . . . . . . . . . a trip . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . you’ll always . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . remember . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . The comfortable way to see . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . the most colorful part of America . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . is on anyone of Santa Fe’s . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . five famous trains between . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . Chicago and California – through . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . the Southwest Indian Country . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Super Chief – Chief – El Capitan – Grand Canyon – California Ltd.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Santa Fe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[siberianmo]

Good Mornin’,

Another rainy start to the day in mid-continent USA, blustery once again and just the kinda day to spend with the model railroads! (Or a great gal and a bottle of “Jack” …… oooooops, reverted to my sailor days (daze) again! [swg]

A comment for our two new customers – Mike ‘n John – I should have mentioned this in the Email: Our guys generally stick pretty close to the “bar” and we’ve all been “out there” on the Forums. Many of us – not all – are “totally turned off” by the nonsense, junk and brainless crap proliferating what could and should be some intelligent interaction. So, if you make reference to something on another Fourm and Thread, most probably it will go unnoticed. Best to Post it again here if you want to catch the attention of our regulars. Thanx! [tup]

I encourage you to review what we’ve discussed in order to get up to speed …….

Now to the acknowledgments:

nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 04:33:36

You hit the nail on the head with your progression for the GM&O Back in 1947, they incorporated the old Alton RR. Then in 1971, they merged with the IC to become the ICG. Today it’s all CN. Quite a network of steel rail.

Received your Email and my recommendation is to get hoppin’ on your Rendezvous suggestions. While nothing is actually cast in stone at this point – some things definitely are: (1) Arrival on Thurs, May 11th – (2) May 12th is the “formal” Rendezvous Day – (3) May 13th is for “spillover stuff” – (4) Sun, May 14th is departure day for moi.

We now have four absolutes signed on and I hope your plans enable you to attend! [tup] More by Email is the best way to continue this dialogue, eh [?] [swg]

wanswheel Mike Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 04:59:44

Good to see ya again! Up all night, or so it seems [?] The older I get, the more that seems to be the case ….. <groan>

Check out yesterday’s SUMMARY, in particular the INDEX. You will find a listing for the Fallen Flags that have been runnin’ for a couple of months. You may want to check out those RR’s of interest to you. (While some RR’s are still operating, they are “fallen” only in the sense that passenger ops ceased years ago…….)

Given that family history of railroading, there’s no doubt you’ve got a story or two to share! [tup]

coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 07:59:12

[yeah] Marshall Tucker will liven and brighten up the joint this AM! [tup]

Interesting stuff on the LV (and other) mines – thanx! One day, Pennsylvania may “sink” should all of the surface area “settle” into where those mines once were. [swg]

Have any input regarding the passenger cars of the LV [?] Seems a bit odd that they didn’t own any, at least for a year ……

Hope you can stop by again today ……. Appreciate the round and of course the money for our Juke – Herr Wurltizer! [tup] Must be runnin' late for class today, eh [?] [swg]


Catch y’all in the daylight!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


My nagging reminder to all! – When Posting, try not to check out immediately thereafter. Review your Post (wait for it to “come up” on the screen) and you just may find that there is another right before or after yours. Then hit the “Refresh” button. This works and prevents one from missing someone else’s timely input. You can always “edit” your submission to include commentary for the more recent “stuff.”

[coalminer3]

Good Morning All: Coffee for me, round for the house, and $ for the jukebox. Let's listen to "Long Hard Ride" by the Marshall Tucker band.

Here's a list of anthracite mines served by the Lehigh Valley in 1950.

Lehigh Valley Railroad

Bernice White Ash Coal Co., Inc.
Connell Mine – Bernice, PA (Sullivan County?)
Colitz Coal Co., Inc.
Colitz Colliery – York Farm Jct. (Schuylkill County)
Harry E. Coal Co.
Harry E. and Forty Fort Collieries – Luzerne – LV/DL&W
Hazle Brook Coal Company
Continental Mine – Centralia, PA
Midvalley Colliery – Wilburton, PA
Heidelberg Coal Co.
Heidelberg No. 1 Mine – Avoca, PA – LV/D&H
Hydrotated Anthracite Fuel Co., Inc.
Cold Spring No. 6 Washery – Milnesville, PA
Jeddo-Highland Coal Co.
Drifton Mine – Jeddo, PA
Eckley & Buck Mountain Mines – Jeddo, PA
Jeddo No. 4 Mine – Jeddo, Pa
Highland No. 5 Mine – Jeddo, PA – Coal prepared at Jeddo No. 7
Stockton Mine – Jeddo, PA
Jeddo No. 7 Breaker – Jeddo, PA
Kehoe-Berge Coal Company
William A; No. 10 Tunnel; Phoenix A; Red Ash; Stevens; No. 11 Slope Mine – Old Forge, PA – LV/NYO&W
Exeter Mine – Pittston, PA
Lehigh Valley Coal Company
Dorrance Colliery – Wilkes-Barre, PA
Henry Mine – Wilkes-Barre, PA
Prospect Mine – Wilkes-Barre, PA
Westmoreland Mine – Wyoming, PA
Hazleton Shaft Colliery – Hazleton, PA
Franklin Mine – Wilkes-Barre, PA
Locust Coal Company
Weston Colliery – Shenandoah, PA
Mammoth Coal Co.
Mammoth Colliery – Raven Run, PA LV/RDG
Morea Mining Co.
Morea Colliery – Morea, PA – LV/PRR
Payne Coal Co.
Spring Mountain Mine – Jeanesville, PA

There were more than a few operations still active in 1950. If you look you will see that some of these mines were served by more than one railroad.

work safe

[wanswheel]

Well thanks Tom. I posted in Amtrak Quiz thread and I'd like to elaborate a little bit about that: The CV, the B&M, the New Haven and the Pennsy ran the old "Montrealer" and southbound "Washingtonian" until the B&M wanted out of the passenger business in 1966. My grandfather, Joe (1881-1971) of the Central Vermont Railway, was often the engineer on that train.

Mike

[nickinwestwales]

Mornin` guys-just stopped in for a bite & a mug of tea whilst waiting for the rain to stop so I can get up on the roof ( dont ask...)
ROB-right on the mark with C.N.R piece-this is one of the trains I will be working into my `imagineered` timetable so `switch list` especially useful ( I have in mind the oldest looking combine I can find-prob. Bachmann or Model Power "shorty" repainted,a handful of cars and an R.S.2 on the point ) As justification for this monstrous distortion of reality,I believe the stub remains of the route are still serviced by the Barrie & Collingwood short line,at least as far as Tarpin Lumber.
Havn`t been able to track down any of Ian`s books over here-will have to keep an eye out ,should I find myself in your neck of the woods...........
[4:-)]TOM-A tour-de-force on the fallen flags,I`ve learned a lot-although still without a frame of reference to hang much of it on.-Now am I right in thinking that the G.M&O later joined with the Illinois Central and is now part of C.N ? If so,an appropriate conclusion to the series for Can-Am residents-An American line now run by Canadians & providing a continuous link from the Gulf all the way north,nice touch..[^]...
O.K guys,looks like the rain is backing off a bit,time to start pulling on the oilskins (waugh) I`m outta here,later,nick[C=:-)]
P.S [#welcome] aboard MIKE & JOHN,hope you enjoy the ride [tup]

[siberianmo]

Here’s the last of the Fallen Flags for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Gulf, Mobile & Ohio (GM&O)

Headquarters: Mobile, AL

Mileage in 1950: 2,900

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 246

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 13,933
Passenger cars: 135

Principal routes in 1950:

Chicago-Springfield-East St. Louis, IL & St. Louis, MO-Corinth-Meridian, MS-Mobile, AL
Springfield-Kansas City, MO
Bloomington-Murrayville, IL
Dyersburg, TN-Union, MS-Mobile, AL
Meridian-New Orleans
Artesia, MS-Montgomery, AL
Memphis, TN-Birmingham, AL (Southern rights between Memphis-Corinth, MS; and IC rights Corinth-Birmingham)
St. Louis-Mexico, MO (Terminal Railway Assn., rights East St. Louis-St. Louis; CB&Q rights St. Louis-Mexico)
Godfrey-Roadhouse, IL
Springfield-East Peoria, IL
Dwight-Washington & Lacon, IL

Passenger trains of note:

Alton Limited (renamed “The Limited”; Chicago-St. Louis)
Abraham Lincoln (Chicago-St. Louis)
Ann Rutledge (Chicago-St. Louis)
Midnight Special (Chicago-St. Louis)
Prairie State Express (St. Louis-Chicago)
The Mail (Chicago-St. Louis)
Gulf Coast Rebel (St. Louis-Mobile & Montgomery, AL)
The Rebel (St. Louis-New Orleans, LA)
Night Hawk (St. Louis-Kansas City)


Post Script: This 42nd Fallen Flags Post concludes the series begun way back on page 106 with the SP (Sep 12th) followed by MoPAC (Sep 13th). Some of the Flags still “fly,” but not for passenger operations. The idea has been to bring back those passenger trains of days gone, if only for another moment.

It was a labor of my love of trains in assembling these and I learned quite a bit along the way. I hope those who looked forward to and followed these Posts, that they have been entertaining and perhaps educational.

I will continue to run NOSTALGIA and ENCORE! pieces until the well runs dry ….

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

TUESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS


G’day Gents! We open at 6 AM (all time zones!)

Help yourself to the freshly brewed “Joe,” and while you’re at it, check out the fresh pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery. Also, don’t forget the <light> breakfasts on the Menu Board! [swg]

Info for the Day:

Nothing special – “routine” for the week:

Wednesday is “Pike Perspectives Day.”
Thursday is “Fish ‘n Chips Nite.”
Friday is “Pizza Nite” and “Steak ‘n Fries Nite.”
Saturday is “ENCORE!” day.

INDEX Mondays only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 05:31:33 (162) Monday’s Info & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 05:33:06 (162) Fallen Flag – LV

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 07:31:03 (162) Sunday acknowledgements

(4) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 07:45:16 (162) Inclusive Post!

(5) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 08:21:20 (162) more on the LV

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 10:03:32 (162) Birthday Watch List!

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 10:08:39 (162) reply to Theodorebear & coalminer3

(8) trolleyboy
Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 14:05:45 (162) Inclusive Post!

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 14:15:31 (162) NOSTALGIA #24 – AT&SF, Ad (1951)

(10) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 14:53:40 (162) Classic Juice – The Safety Car

(11) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 15:00:44 (162)

(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 15:44:55 (162) reply to trolleyboy, etc.

(13) pwolfe Pete Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 16:42:34 (162)

(14) passengerfan Al Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 17:08:37 (162) AT&SF Pleasure Domes

(15) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 18:35:16 (162) Inclusive Post!

(16) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 18:43:52 (162) Interloper warning!

(17) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 18:58:19 (162) reply to pwolfe – passengerfan – nickinwestwales

(18) passengerfan Al Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 19:26:09 (162) LV passenger cars

(19) siberianmo Tom Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 20:17:46 (162) reply to passengerfan – LV info

(20) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 21:57:31 (163) Inclusive Post!

(21) wanswheel Mike Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 22:20:41 (163) 2nd visit!

(22) jlampke John Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 23:04:15 (163) 1st visit!

(23) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 23:33:01 (163) CNR Steam #2 The Alliston Subdivision Trains

(24) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 01:16:23

(25) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 01:46:07 (163) reply to trolleyboy – wanswheel – jlampke

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[siberianmo]

Good Early Mornin’,

Looks like a busy night, so I will get right to the acknowledgments:

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 21:57:31 and 23:33:01 and 15 Nov 2005, 01:16:23

Glad you found your missing sheep! Your Barn will be updated ……. [tup]

I’ll have to give this idea of yours regarding a permanent tax guy some additional thought. Cindy is MINE – mine, mine, mine! Oooooops, got carried away there. Of course, it’s a bittersweet affair in that she’s stuck on Nick, Nick, Nick! Anyway, she’s only going to be with us through the end of this semester, then it’s back to her full time faculty job at the all female college up the road ‘n ‘round the bend. Sabbatical will be over next month ….. [tdn]. I just may put ALL of you on part-time status if the business doesn’t pick up and get hoppin’ on a regular basis! [swg] Translated: the more time the staff spends ‘round here, the more bucks get drawn from the tub!

Your Email has been received and responded to ….. Thanx! [tup]

Nice CNR Steam (#2), which will be also added to your Barn! Let’s keep it goin’ this way – you Post ‘em and I’ll confirm “acceptance” into the Index – that way we won’t have anymore of this “lost” stuff! [swg]

Oh [yeah] a bit of insomnia once again! So what better place to spend the time than here [?] [swg]

wanswheel Mike Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 22:20:41

[#welcome] Aboard, Mike! Appreciate your Email and I’m glad you took me up on the offer to drop by. You will find there’s all kinds of “stuff” to get involved with ‘round here. Don’t let the volume chase you off. I recommend a peruse of page one – the go back 5 or 6 pages from here and check out the way we do things at the bar. You’ll catch on in no time.

Anything that you feel comfortable with talking about is fine with us. Our focus is on Classic Trains – real ‘n model but as you will see, we also like to have a bit of fun in other areas as well. Lookin’ forward to your participation with us!

We have a “Cast of Characters” ‘round here too, and you’ll quickly adjust to them as well. We’re all in this together – so pull up a stool, and enjoy the first drink – it’s on me! [tup][tup]

jlampke John Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 23:04:15

[#welcome] Aboard, John! Your Email was received and responded to – Thanx! As with my comments to Mike, you may want to follow the same routine. Although you have indicated that you’ve been checkin’ us out for some time.

The SP had 1002 passenger cars back in 1950. I’ll yield to our regulars (most probably, passengerfan Al) for answers to the remainder of your questions.

Now it’s time to belly up to the bar and enjoy your first one on me! [tup][tup]

I’m lookin’ forward to some Classic Trains input from you …… c’mon in, the water’s fine! [swg]

Catch y’all in the daylight!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


My nagging reminder to all! – When Posting, try not to check out immediately thereafter. Review your Post (wait for it to “come up” on the screen) and you just may find that there is another right before or after yours. Then hit the “Refresh” button. This works and prevents one from missing someone else’s timely input. You can always “edit” your submission to include commentary for the more recent “stuff.”

[trolleyboy]

Tom insomnia again imagine you being awake this time of night. Check your inbox if you are up to it i'm up and about for a bit.

Rob

[trolleyboy]

Good evening again gentlemen. I figure that with the unpleasantness hapening on our fare frum this evening that I would through in another piece for my barn.This will be the abrieviated tale of the Alliston Subdivision. Today this subdivision still caters some auto trains for the new car plants but is mostly known for it's steam powered resident the South Simcoe Railway thatruns steam excursions in the summer.Between Tottingham and Beeton Ontario.

CNR Steam The Alliston Subdivision Trains


Beeton to Collingwood Mixed Train

Alliston - Team track ( frieght shed plus stock pens )Peter Thompson & Sons,Gibson feed Mill , coal and lumber yard. team Track shipments included tobacco,potaotoes, and when in season Christmas trees.

Everett - team track ( served Alderson Coal, Gibson's elevator and grist mill )

Glencairn - team track ( local produce & animals )

Avening- team track ( same as above )

Creemore- team track ( frieght shed lcl , grain elevator, cattle pen ,Peter Thompson planning mill shipped from freight shed ) H. P. Shepard & Sons grain mill spur.

Glen Huron - team track ( Hamilton Brother's shipped / recieved feed , lumber , hardware and coal )

Duntroon - team track ( grain elevator , cattle ramp )

Nottawa - team track ( cattle pens ) Stock day once per week , later served by Meaford way feight.

Untill the time table change in april 1930 the second mixed train M393/392 leaving Beeton in the evening returning to Collingwood the following morning.After the early 1940's only mixed trains M391/394 were run on this sub. In the 30's and 40's the power was the ancient moguls 593,607,& 633. Once they were retired in the early 50's custmary power was by ten wheeler's 1287,1207,1358,1360,1363,1364,1390,&1397. Once in a while Allandale mogul's 87 or 88 would handle these trains their last runs were in 1955 however.Thes trains usually had one or two old wood coache/combines for the passenger compontent and handled mail a all the station's until 1955.

It was jokingly sadi that on the Alliston subdivision, trains went 20mph foreward,20mpf sideways and 20mph up and down due to the rural nature of the sub and it's 56 lbs rail ! All old ex Canadain Northern 10 whelers and moguls were used on this line due to it's delicate light rail.The only regular non mixed passenger train to ply this line was in the form of train 661 from Hamilton this train ran through to collingwood normally powered by D-1CNR's infamous first diesel powered doodle bug which was more off than not out of service and replaced by a light pacific or 10 wheelers.The mixed trains would have an old wooden baggage and a coach all of ex CnoR fame.


Rob

PS Tom email recieved and responded to.

[jlampke]

Gents: Lots of interesting posts here.... I have a few questions if you don't mind.

It seems like I read somewhere that the SP had just over 1,100 passenger cars at the beginning of the '60's. Does anyone know how accurate that number is?

Also, does anyone know roughly what percentage of them would've been painted in Daylight colors?

Also, I assume most of them survived through the '60's and were turned over to Amtrak when the latter took over passenger service. Is that correct? Anyone know any numbers there? Was it a give-away or was money exchanged?

What has become of the cars that the SP turned over to Amtrak?

Do any of the articulated car sets from the original Daylight trains in the '30's still exist?

Does anyone care to offer a guess as to how many of the ex-SP pre-1958 Daylight cars still exist? I am interested in cars that would've been pulled behind GS locomotives.

Thanks, John

[wanswheel]

Nothin', just stopped in to tip my hat to the proprietor and certainly also to Theodorebear

[trolleyboy]

Good evening again gentlemen, Tom I found my little lost sheep. It's on page 140, the Nipissing Central and a follow up on their rolling stock. That should fall in the calssic juice line up right before the Witt car one. I didn't flag it like the other's but it's one Nick will apprciate as it has routes with the Ontario Northland.

I did put several small blurbs up ( charts etc ) but they wern't ment to be part of the juice barn.

I figure that between Ted and myself we can pay Al on a part time basis,this leaves Cindy more time for her "other pursuits"[:O][tup][:-^]


Nick Glad you cruised by again, mind the "dillo stuff" at least he's trained to do it by Boris's shed now. Not suprised that cnr Zebras are backing up the Northlander. CN and ONR tend to work fairly well together with the joint trackage to NorthBay etc.The TTC runs garbage trains out of the subway system as well, they use several of the RT class flat motors. This refuse is then collected at the main surface access yard of the TTC subway system and transfered to turcks and then out of the city. The yonge street and bloor street lines both have outside ie in daylight storage yarrds and some daylighted runs. Part of the Bloor line passes on a viaduct that crosses the Don Valley parkway.

Ian Wilson and his crew are great info guys but yes as modellers they are your ptototype rivet / gear heads, But to their credit they are always willing to help. Did you see that Ian's next book CNR Steam in Northern Ontario is out in February. It should be a good one, as with the rest of his books those who prebooked will get their signed copies at the Copetown train show with books on sale everywher else the following day.[:D][yeah[tup]][:D]




Pete Yes loss of power would automatically put most street cars into emergancy. In that the brakes would enguge. The motorman would then lock the car down with the habd brake as once the powers off air brake equiped cars wouldn't have power to pump the air tanks back up till power was restored. On all electric Pcc's and the new TTC CLRV's the track brakes ( basically a big magnet deploys from the bottom of the truch to hold the car in place till the power can be restored. The crews once the car was stopped could manually relese the doors to let passengers out.


Tom I will check my emails in a few minutes and respond accordingly. [tup]

Al Thanks for the additional, LV and dome info knew you wouldn't let us down [tup][bow]

Later fellas

Rob

[siberianmo]

Good additional info, as usual, passengerfan Al. The sources I have show that LV simply didn't own any in 1950. Before or after is another story, obviously. Don't know why 1950 was singled out .... I didn't write the book! [swg]

For pwolfe Pete and others: Some additional info on the LV - In the late 1930's, the new streamlined trains of their competitors forced the Lehigh Valley to update their own passenger service. The Lehigh Limited was selected as the first train to be upgraded. Industrial designer Otto Kuhler created a stunning orange, black and white paint scheme and applied it to a semi-streamlined 4-6-2 Pacific and several refurbished heavyweight cars. Named for the man who founded the railroad and Lehigh University, the Asa Packer made it's first run in February of 1939.

The orange and black livery was replaced a year later by Kuhler's black and Cornell red scheme of the LV's John Wilkes and Black Diamond. A solid Cornell red paint scheme came in 1948 when the railroad deseilized. Declining revenues from passenger service halted the Asa Packer in April of 1958 and passenger service on the Lehigh Valley was discontinued altogether in 1961.

(from the IHC website: http://www.ihc-hobby.com/cgi-bin/bsc.cgi?sn=518)

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Anonymous]

"OUR" PLACE - We talk Classic Trains in an adult environment!
does this meen to teens...?

[passengerfan]

Good Evening Tom and the gang once again. Time for a CR and a round for the house.
I just wanted to let you know that the LV definitly owned passenger carsand even some that were streamlined. Otto Kuhler streamlined a number of Pacific's for the railroad trhat were among the finest looking of all streamlined steam power. The trains that recived streamlined power were the John Wilkes and Black Diamond.
The Lehigh Valley owned two lots of lightweight streamlined coaches both built by Pullman Standard in the old Osgood Bradley plant in Worcester, Mass. The so called Ameerican Flyer cars were delivered in 1939 1510-1514 seated 92 and 1515-1519 seated 82. They were assigned to Black Diamond along with heavyweight dining cars and modernized heavyweight Pullman Parlor cars WHITE DIAMOND and BLACK DIAMOND. All head end cars owned by the LV were also heavyweights.
The LV received two RDC's in 1951 an RDC-1 numbered 40 arrived in June 1951 and an RDC-2 number 41 was delivered to the railrod in August 1951.
The Maple Leaf a train with through Sleeping cars to Toronto via the Canadian National was also operated by the LV from Buffalo to New York. The through Canadian National sleeping cars were streamlined by the mid 1950's. The Maple Leaf was most famous for the PA locomotives owned by the LV that pulled them until the train was finally discontinued. In fact the PA's were the power choice for the postwar trains of the LV.

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Gang!

The rains held off just long enough to get Juneau out for his one mile evenin' walk! Never want to deprive a Siberian Husky of exercise time - one pays the price ... [swg]

I see we've had a couple of visitors:

pwolfe Pete Was wonderin' where you've been. [swg]

Those are subway cars, Mate, not trolleys! [tdn] <Geesh> But, I'm glad you enjoyed the pix! [tup] If the second set ever gets here (which was ordered first) I'll probably Post those pix too.

I will yield to passengerfan Al in reference to your question regarding the LV and the use of passenger cars (leased or ........).

All is still on track for Saturday at Stone Hill's 1847 Restaurant! [tup]

passengerfan Al I figured any mention of a dome would drag you away from your study sessions! [swg] Nice supplemental info! [tup] I can only imagine what those cars must have been like to travel in .....

As I have mentioned several times, I traveled from LA to Chicago on the Santa Fe back in 1947 or 48 as a kid. I do not have a clue with regard to the name of the train nor do I remember a dome car. So perhaps I was not on the Super Chief. Guess I'll never know.

Thought we'd get a response out of Trainnut484 Russell - but I don't think he comes up for air very often any more - at least not here. Shame - as he has missed some good stuff about his favorite RR lately.

Oh yes, received your Email response ... thanx!

Finally, nickinwestwales [C=:-)] Nick - Back again! Hopefully this means we will see a bit more of you 'round here. Fortunately Boris has been occuppied with his "pet," Tex the Armadillo, otherwise he'd be a "fit" to handle in your absence. However, he's not very pleased with you regarding his Birthday Bash on Halloween Night!

Glad you like the "Red Birds", they are a well done consist and will serve my purposes quite well once I get 'em into the underground.

The Veterans/Remembrance Day commemoration speaks for itself and I hope you've had the time to review the Posts - there are many. I reran my 9 WWII ads on Saturday if you need to find a "condensed" version .......

No sweat regarding Awk he's safe upstairs in my private quarters. He's already "ridden" Tex once or twice, and manages to escape before becoming [dinner] dinner! [swg] Tex does appear to be garbed as a Knight of Olde, doesn't he [?] [swg]

Hope you are keeping track of the Emails too, as the guys are making commitments for Toronto and our Rendezvous. My reservations before week's end.

Thanks for the drinks and round for the house! [tup] A fine Post too .......

Appreciate the "heads up" on the "intruder" out there in the Ether ........ [tup]

Catch ya later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[nickinwestwales]

Hi guys,quick note-seems we have another contentious d*ckhead on the forum-goes under `gunit`-suggest best ignored ( or shot,if in your neighourhood) later,nick

[nickinwestwales]

Well howdy folks-remember me ?
[4:-)]TOM ,I`ll have a Staropramen please ( Black Label I can get any time) an Alexander Keiths for your good self and what ever the `Gentlemen` of the house are enjoying tonight. Before I launch into the usual waffle,congratulations on a fine acknowledgement of Rememberance Day ( over here,the nearest sunday)-several of those pieces raised the hairs on the back of my neck,as did "Flanders Fields"--Well done my friend and thankyou on behalf of those members of my family who answered the call.
So,to business-them Redbirds look mighty fine--and no need to feel guilty about `surface` running-a number of London Transport`s "tube" lines run on the surface once outside the Metropolis-all you need are some dummy 3rd & 4th rails and away to go [^] -They also have freight working of a sort-a daily `tra***rain` moves litter & general rubbish out to a landfill site out towards West Drayton/Uxbridge (nr Heathrow)-prototype for everything dept. strikes again !!!-will try and find some pix ( suspect that phrase will appear on my tombstone).......
O.K,moving on and in no particular order--DOUG-love that I.T geep,loud & proud [^],keep `em coming !! PETE-fine camera work there my man-you wouldn`t find P.Way like that on a passenger line over here-bet She rocked & rolled all the way-N.B-assume typo but surely `Remembrance` 4-6-4t-...Only Brighton 2-6-4`s I can call to mind were the "River" class-rebuilt as tenders owing to centre-of-gravity problems dumped a couple of them in the ballast with casualties a plenty ( Stoats Nest,south of Croydon between the wars,although this may be fugitive memory)
MANAGER TED-Glad You`ve shrugged off the `minor weather problems` down in the Gulf, have just `found` your Katrina survivors E Mail ( don`t ask ! ). As a former Beagleist of some years standing I found the pix a rare delight-fine looking hounds at that,nice one ! You also mentioned the late Ted Heath,sadly he is mainly remembered in this country as one of our less successful Prime Ministers. His exploits as a yachtsman and competance as a keyboard wizard and band leader are shamefully neglected,although his avowed and outspoken hatred of Maggie Thatcher has ensured his place in the average Brit`s heart [^][^][^]
DAN-welcome back mate !-hope You`ve turned the corner health-wise. As to access problems try checking your `cookies` & `pop-ups` settings on your machine-with my software (Wanadoo-part of A.O.L. I believe) both have to be switched off in order to communicate with the outside world( right click on Internet Explorer icon>properties>privacy function )hope this helps.
BAR CHANDLER ROB-nice stuff on the Huntsville sub-Am a ( passive ) member of Ian Wilson`s `Canadian Branchline` site-good people but a touch too much rivet counting for my taste-very happy to provide info however so can`t fault `em. Trivia note,as at nov `03,Huntsville switcher was G.P.9 #4136 in zebra stripes and with a chop nose-has been seen as emergency replacement power on both `Northlander` and #450/451

Right,apologies to any I`ve missed-in the main it`s because I have nothing useful to contribute,am off to check out what I`ve missed these last few days--[4:-)]TOM-I`ll take another of those fine ales to keep out the chill--By the by-there is a creature like a beaver in chain mail chewing the strap of my crash helmet-what is it and what has it done with AWK......better go out the back way and sooth Boris` hurt feelings,be lucky guys,speak soon nick[C=:-)]

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house.
Just had to jump in on the Pleasure Domes.
The Santa Fe ordered the six Pleasure domes from Pullman Standard in June 1947 and they were delivered for Super Chief service in December 1950. They were numbered 500 - 505 and were originally to have been named PLAZA ACOMA, PLAZA LAGUNA, PLAZA LAMY, PLAZA SANTA FE, PLAZA TAOS, and PLAZA ZUNI. They were the only dome cars of their type ever constructed The Dome level instead of seating the more common 24 seats in pairs twelve on either side of a center aisle, instead seated but eighteen at the front of the dome was a pair of seats facing forward on either side of the aisle. Next was four swiveling single Parlor type seats on either side of the aisle and finally there was a pair of dome seats facing the rear on the dome level.
The famous Turquoise room was in the short main level area forward of the dome and always operated forward next to the diner. The Turquoise Room was open to all passengers when not reserved for private parties. The area seated 12 for dining or as a cocktail lounge. Beneath the dome was located a cocktail lounge with a bar at the rear of the lower area the seating capaicity was 10. Directly behind the steps was located a desk and chair with free Super Chief Stationary and post cards on the right side of the car facing forward. On the remaining large main level was located a eighteen seat lounge with large chairs, sofas, and a table for four. These cars were among the finest lounge cars ever built for any railroad.
At the same time these cars entered Super Chief service new sleeping cars and dining cars were added as well. These cars were for the second reequipping of the daily Super Chief since WW-II.
Everything about the train the Santa Fe called Super Chief was indeed SUPER and the Pleasure Domes were just one more example of the way the Santa Fe pampered its passengers.

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of the usual please.

Thanks TOM for posting the photos for me and thanks to all for the kinds words about them[tup]. Also thanks to BARNDAD DOUG ROB and you TOM for your pics, trolleys on the CAN-AM They looked good.[tup][tup].

Another good Classic Juice ROB. I have heard somewhere that if the power was lost, the braking capacity on some the trolleys was much reduced.Perhaps you can tell me if this is true or not.[?] I heard this in England and it may have been the case on some of the trams over there.

Thanks Tom for the Fallen Flag and CM3 for the follow up [tup] I see the Lehigh ran some named trains but they did not own any passenger cars[%-)]. I suppose they borrowed them or were they through trains[?]

May I just say again THANKS TOM and TED for organising Friday

Hope to call in soon PETE.

[siberianmo]

G’day!

What a horrid day here in mid-continent USA – hard ‘n cold rain, blustery is a good word with temps in the 40s (F). Spent the early mornin’ pickin’ up leaves (what else [?]) Filled eight 32 gallon containers with ‘em before the rains came – did the same on Saturday. Trees are just about ready to let go of some more. Argggggggh. In my next life, with my next wife – there will be NO deciduous trees in my yard! [swg]

To the acknowledgments:

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 14:05:45 and 14:53:40 and 15:00:44

Two days off! In succession [?] Isn’t that a bit, well – errrrrrrrr, excessive [?] I mean, if YOU aren’t at the store, who is watchin’ it [?] Slacker! [swg]

Glad to see you in daylight again. Never know these days (daze) just who is goin’ to pop in on us.

Whaddyamean, “Our” Place needs a full time tax guy [?] And just where do you suppose the salary for that kinda “help” will come from [?] Let’s see, U.S. and Canadian federal tax forms; Mentor Village tax forms, and Can-Am County tax forms. Hmmmmmmm, maybe we could use some help! However, Cindy and I have been doin’ quite well with the “forms” ……..

Missing “Classic Juice” Posts? Hmmmmm, last one you put out there was #8. Now if you are thinking about those “abbreviated blurbs” of a few pages ago, I’ll have to think about that. Your barn may grow into a multi-level building if we’re not careful! [swg]

That loooooooooooong “Juice” of yours will have to be read a bit later on ….. the bride is just about to pull into the garage and it’s time for me to get back to being, “House Husband, America’s Noblest Domestic Duty!” [swg]

Check your Email!! Need to “talk” with you.

Catch y’all later!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


My nagging reminder to all! – When Posting, try not to check out immediately thereafter. Review your Post (wait for it to “come up” on the screen) and you just may find that there is another right before or after yours. Then hit the “Refresh” button. This works and prevents one from missing someone else’s timely input. You can always “edit” your submission to include commentary for the more recent “stuff.”

[trolleyboy]

Tom[oX] you snuck your nostalgia in while I was writing a novel[(-D][{(-_-)}]. The Nipissing central is calssic juice #9 I just haven't found which page I posted it on yet though I will let you know. It's from Nick's favourite part of Ontario so we can't forget about it.

The "Pleasure Dome" eh? Brings up some interesting conotations doesn't it. As always though some interesting info from your private stash [tup]

Rob

[trolleyboy]

Okay Classic Juice #10

The changes in car design and crewing and the comming of the safety car'

A lot of you will remember the Saftey car or the Birney from your own cities systems. Next to the Witt Birney's were likely the most common streetcar type out there, with most major and alot of the minor systems operating them,they came in two main forms the single or double truck models. They were designed for singleman operation as well, hence the safety car moniker.

First a bit of run up back history to the avant of the one man car.

To the uninitiated,the general appearance of trolley'sappearse tio have chaged little before the 1930's. One however can find many subtle changes beginning in the 20's. Monitor roofs , with their small openable clerestry windows, gave way to the arched roof with ventilators around 1910. Rear plateforms were enlarged for the new Pay as you enter PAYE fare system , and doors started to appear more commonly in the centre when Paye as you pass started with the Witt cars.

More common use of bright colours, and the abandonment of fancy lettering and striping in the 20's also occured. Likley the biggest change was construction methods, in the 20's steel replaced wood as the construction medium. At the turn of the century (approx 1906 ) steel was used as an underframe, with a wood body previous to that cars were generally all wood. The first NA manufacturer tp do steel bodies was the pressed steel company of Pittsburgh which delivered it's first all steel cars to Montreal in 1907.

Most companies however beleaved that heavier wood bodied cars ( steel underframe ) gave a smoother ride,some going even as far as to insist on concrete floors for extra added stability ! Nevertheless steel offered more strength ,was less fragile for external panel use, and could be more easily repaired with rivetting or welding. It was also more fireproof and held together better under vibration. As steel's advantages became better known and hardwoods became more scarce,the tide of opinion changed and by 1912 the star of the changeover took place. Wood interiors and wood framed canvas covered roofs remained in vogue for many years yet but after 1917 the all wood car was obsolete.

While double truck cars became increasingly more popular after the turn of the century ,single truck trams continued to be built to the 1930's. Because they were shorter and lighter, and took up less street space,required less maintenance and consumed less energy.They were better suited to single man pay as you pass operations as well for smaller cities and less travelled routes. Money savings were the prime motivation in the 30's to single man cars as well.

The unions of coarse were not happy with the loss off two man crewing. The main crux was what if the motorman passes out ot dies with no conductor who would save the passengers, this is a death trap etc etc. Enter the safety car ( and better motorman wages/ sorry conductors the union got less jobs but, more money for the remaining members )

Significant technical improvements / advances happen just prior to WW1 making 1 man operation safe and practical. With the "safety cars " the first was built by St louis car in 1913 for the illinois traction ( later terminal , thought you would like that Tom ). It featured a combination brake,sand and door mechanism plus a deadmans handle. The latter became the main feature to overcome the objections to one man operation should the operator become unconscious or dead.The handle has to remain depressed,otherwise the brakes and would automatically apply amd the doors would be made openable only by hand. Doors could not be openned while the car was moving nor could the car move if the doors were open. Hence the "safety car" name.

This system was designed by J.M. Boisenbury ( Illinois Traction's superintendant of motive power ) he worked in conjunction with westinghouse. A foot positioned deadman's button which had to be stood on at all times was also developed at this time.( PCC's use these )

Safety cars of all shapes and sizes were built to double and single truck models.The most popular was the Birney designed by Charles O. Birney of Stone & Webster. his car standarized on a 28 foot 16,000 pound car first produced by Brill in 1916 ( The KW picture I posted on Sunday ) This was a rougyh riding but cheap to produce car essentilally the model T of the transportion systems.They were no frills minimal heating with rataan seats. The latter double truck models rode better but were still rough 47 feet long 40,000 pounds. The later still witt's and PCC's are also safety cars in that their safety appliances are the same ( deadman handle on the Witt , floor pedal on the PCC ) they were just more civilized to the ride characteristcs and of coarse they wer faster.

Rob

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #24

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Santa Fe (AT&SF) from a 1951 advertisement in my personal collection.


Enjoy the Pleasure Dome only dome car between Chicago and Los Angeles


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . new Super Chief . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The restful observation lounge . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . “top of the Super, next to the stars” . . .
. . . . . . is only one of many features you will enjoy on the . . . . . .
new Super Chief, the train that sets a new world standard
. . . . of travel. Daily between Chicago and Los Angeles. . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Santa Fe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[trolleyboy]

Good afternoon Tom. Since this is the first of my two daze off to recover from the weekend midnights I'll just do a tea and a nice dagwood from the kitchen. Anything heavier and I'll be asleep again.

I can't add much to the LV other than that the maple leaf in one incarnation or other survived as a name anyway on the Amtrak/Via timeiable till the bulk of the cross boarder service stopped at any rate.

I seem to be missing a couple of Classic Juices on my barn ( love that little addition however [tup][tup][swg] ) I'll try to find them and post the page numbers for you.


Ted and Al glad to know that the two of youn are confirmed for TO I will be in contact with everyone a bit later with some additional stuff.


Al I agree the redbirds are as close as you will get to the original or follow up G car orders. NJ Int Brass did produce an actual set in the 70's but they were brutally expensive then over $150 US for two cars in 1970's dollars. They are as common as hen's teeth as well.

I see that you to are easily distracted by new books as well must be a train person thing
Good luck on the exams though Our place needs a full time tax guy. LOL


Bk Thanks for the comments on the pictures etc. happy landings on your latest trip by the way . Also, I wouldn't worry about the star thing either, most of us ignore them and resign them as a neccessary evil that keep's the "normal" forum users amused.

Ted To answer your question / comments, you are right that would be prettyn heavy reconstructive work on the Bowser PCC's,ugh that white metak can be a chore to clean out the windows of let alone to major conversion work to. You could use a pair of PCC's mu'd and conected with tomlinson couplers. Clevelands Shaker heights line ran as a priveta right or way suberban line with two and three unit trains of coupled PCC's, or they could run individually as well. The liberty bell cars I think predate even the brillliners. The models look like a railroad roofed Jewett car from the turn of the century. If you have any of your (dis)instruction manuals from the Bowser cars they usually insert a catalogue of sorts which shows them. Or easier still go to Bowsers website you can still buy them.

Don't worry Ted youshouldn't have to shovel anything in May, unless to many tall tales get told at night that is.[;)][:-,][:-^][(-D]

Also I did not replace the bell with a PCC chime it's a distinct three tone high to low of a TTC subway door chime. ! Boris like it ( better than his tuneless whistles he uses to attract the "ladies" or Tex [:O][:-^]

CM3 Thanks for the additional LV info , i figured if any of us had the lowdown on them it would be you. appreciated as always.

Hopfully Dan gets his "puker" problems sorted out with Tom's help [bow] we soarly miss hios input, I can imagine that it is frustrating for him.

Well gents I'll be back in a bit with another shortjuice spot for Robs barn.[tup][yeah]

Rob

[siberianmo]

G’day!

Some additional acknowledgments:

Theodorebear Ted Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 07:45:16

Glad you like the Red Bird pix. The cars in my set are not “close coupled,” however, LifeLike's next iteration of these cars will be. Check out this URL: http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-31015

Now, I would suspect that “close coupled” means a potential problem with narrower radius curves. But I’ll leave that to the more “serious” modelers out there …….

In view of the plans I have for my subway, with viewing being restricted through portals (“shadow box windows”), I have no plans to make any adjustments to the cars. This is really a “KISS” effort, no more ‘n no less. [tup]

Nice to witness the positive momentum regarding the ”Our” Place Rendezvous in Toronto this May. [tup][tup][tup]

coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 14 Nov 2005, 08:21:20

We appreciated your “early” participation in our Veterans/Remembrance Day commemoration. Yes, we had some fine Posts and the results speak for themselves. [tup][tup][tup]

Good stuff on the LV! [tup][tup]

I see that YOU are “next up” on our Birthday Watch List, so WHAT DAY OF THE WEEK and WHAT TIME do you wi***o celebrate YOUR DAY with us [?]

Thanx for the round and quarters for our Wurltizter! [swg]

Catch y’all later!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


P.S. A suggestion for all: When Posting, try not to check out immediately thereafter. Review your Post (wait for it to “come up” on the screen) and you just may find that there is another right before or after yours. Then hit the “Refresh” button. This works and prevents one from missing someone else’s timely input. You can always “edit” your submission to include commentary for the more recent “stuff.”

[siberianmo]

All of our regulars know about the Birthday Watch List .... however, it needs to be posted repeatedly, just as a reminder regarding who is coming up next for the Birthday Bash ......

2005 BIRTHDAY WATCH LIST (rev. Sep 16th):

February 2nd (Kevin – 49)
March 5th (Nick – 45)
April 18 (Al - 63)
May 18th (Tom - 67)
May 27th (Dave - 46)
June 24th (Dan - 43)
July 15th (*** – 65)
July 25th (Chris - 51)
July 30th (Russell – 34)
August 16th (Ted - 67)
September 8th (Rob - 34)
December 29th (CM3) – 59 Next up!

Not on the list [?] Send me an Email with your birth date (month-day-year).
Corrections too!

The 2006 revision will drop the names of all inactive customers.

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!



NOTE for all: Check the SUMMARIES

[coalminer3]

Good Morning All: Coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

I really enjoyed looking through all of the posts and other materials for Veterand Day and Remembrance Day. There csertainly were some thoughtful reminiscences and the ads were a nice touch as well. I have a tearsheet from Life for the NYC Hill Top ad. Another one which came to mind which I have somewhere and need to find is the famous New Haven ad, the "Kid in Upper 4." This was so popular that a series of "Kid" ads followed. As for the IT geep - wow! also the Kitchener Birney and the L&PS shot.

Here's a little more information on the Lehigh Valley.

The Middle anthracite field did not get a railroad at fiorst due to its remote location and also because the Lehigh Coal and Navigation Company fought to keep its monoploy on anthracote shipments on the Lehigh Canal. The canal, however, was an undependable source of transportation because of weather and damage from repeated floods.

Asa Packer, a businessman and canal boat operator, decided to try and solve the problem and bought the charter of the so-called "paper" Delaware, Schuylkill and Susquehanna Railroad.

Packer changed the company's name to the Lehigh Valley (LV) and started laying track from Mauch Chunk (Jim Thorpe) to Easton. Packer's railroad was complete and operating by 185. The LV eventually reached as far west as Buffalo and on the east of New York harbor.

Packer was a visonary in that he built the Valley only as a railroad company rather than part of a larger mining operation. The Lehigh Valley got into mining after the Civil War. In the 1870s the Valley set up the subsidiary Lehigh Valley Coal Company (LVCC) to watch over its mining interests. By 1911, the LVCC's operations ran more than 8 million tons per year, and by 1916 thay owned 30 breakers to handle their coal. At its height, only the Rading carried more coal than the Lehigh Valley.

work safe