"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[nickinwestwales]

Well good evening fellow funsters,sure is busy round these parts this night-not even room outside to park the Bentley-had to get Jeeves to drop me off across the street,very poor show dontcherknow.............What ho [4-:)]TOM-whilst a pink gin would be in character,I will stick with a bottle or four of Prague`s finest,you I would guess will be staying with Mr Keith`s fine Ales & I`m sure DON will join you,plus of course,a round for the chaps and whilst it doesn`t do to encourage the `lower orders` I think we can send a pitcher back for Boris et al. soooo, whats appertaining in this fair hostelry..?...
CM3-interesting rundown on L.V. motive power-boy did they ever believe in shopping around-suggest the size of the maintenance shops might be related to the volume of service manuals required,whilst I would be the first to suggest that standardisation makes for dull train watching,that list reads more like a modellers roster.
In fairness,it should be acknowledged that the 1923 `groupings` over here left the new `big four` companies with loco fleets that generally had only the gauge in common.
I note in your mines list you give one of the cannelton pits as being owned by the Algoma co. or similar -would this be anything to do with the Algoma Central up in Ontario or just a coincidence of names ?
On the matter of subsidance(sp?) the next village up river from us,where my parents have a house,was until 1948 an active anthracite mining community ( the westernmost edge of the main Welsh valleys seam ) and all banks/mortgage lenders etc require a full seismelogical survey before coughing up the dosh on any properties there ( A neighbour of the folks used to live in one of the old pit buildings,converted to a dwelling,until he woke up one day to find that the `capping` had dropped in and he had a 200ft deep hole outside his back door..........Ended up with a brand new purpose built house paid for by the National Coal Board )
As to `coal mining music`,check out `L & N` by Michelle Shocked,an East Texas folkie with a whole rep. of E.Tex,West Kentucky & Appalachian songs.
MIKE-nice to have a customer who can leave under their own steam at the end of the night [swg][tup]
DON-[#welcome] aboard the only show in town,as you can tell from the accent ( how DO they do that ?) I`m one of the `token Brits` the Guvnor is gracious enough to encourage and will be delighted to provide any info and/or pix that I can.
As a fan of Canadian rail ops we may well have some `cards to trade` so to speak. My primary interests are the old O.S & H line up to Barrie/Allendale & the O.N.R-the last `frontier` Railroad around ( IMHO [swg] ).

As all of our new customers will no doubt realise soon enough,behind the smokescreen of deranged and surreal banter we are lucky enough to have a number of genuine authorities in a number of areas of competance,all of whom are happily of the `show & tell` mindset so dont be shy,dive in and ask away..!!
O.K.-just gonna slip out to the galley and drop the fryers ready for Fish & Chip night tomorrow then I`ll be back out for a little tete-a-tete with the boss man about the Can-Am Metro,see you in a bit,nick[C=:-)]

[siberianmo]

[#welcome] Aboard, jdonald Don!

You, Sir are a rare individual indeed. For you have entered this thread and our site in a most courteous and approprite manner. For that, the first TWO drinks are on the house! [tup][tup] You also know how to greet and treat the bartender - Keiths just happens to be my all time favorite brew! [tup] Thanx!

From your Profile, I gathered that you will thorougly enjoy what goes on 'round here. Especially with your "neighbor" trolleyboy Rob being a Charter Member of this establishment and one of our most faithful supporters. It is indeed a pleasure to welcome you.

That list of Classic name passenger trains has perked some interest 'round here! [tup] Glad it brought back some memories for you.

You've indicated that you've been hanging around our door for a couple of weeks. So, now that you are inside, may I suggest that you check us out [?] Page one is a good place to begin. Then perhaps scroll back 5 or 6 pages from here, just to get a "feel" for the way things are done in this fine, upstanding, everything above board, adult eating 'n drinking establishment! <phew> I think you've gotten the message. [swg]

We have a couple of guys who will keep you going on British Rail, steam and otherwise. Just look for pwolfe Pete and nickinwestwales Nick. You'll know them just as soon as they begin to speak! [swg] <grin>

Catch ya later and don't be a stranger!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[jdonald]

Good afternoon Tom & all. Have been hanging around outside the front door of "OUR" Place for a couple of weeks-guess its time to come in and say hello.
I'll have an Alexander Keiths and one for yourself . That was an impressive list of passenger trains, by the way.
Rob- have enjoyed your info from Ian Wilsons "Steam at Allandale", especially the section on the Huntsville Sub. I have been fortunate enough to get "
Steam over Palmerston" and "To Stratford Under Steam" (although I had to designate them as a Christmas Gift in Sept). Hope to get "Steam Through London" before it goes out of print. Hm-maybe an early birth day present.
Tom-back to your list of psgr trains-four of the CNR trains ran through Sarnia in the early 50's(Toronto to Chicago). It was a black day in 1957 when the International etc began running through the St. Clair tunnel behind the GTW 4900 series GP9s. They certainly made a racket coming up the hill out of the tunnel with 12-15 cars of #20. Not like the electrics-they snuck into the station without ever hearing them!
I have many other memories of steam and early diesel running through Sarnia in the 50's-hope to share them in some future postings.
I live 1 block from the CSX Sarnia-Chatham line(formerelyChessie,C&0 and Pere Marquette. If anyone has any snippets of info regarding PM operations in SW Ontario in 30's 40's & 50's I would be interested in hearing them.
Also have an interest in British steam after riding behind restored steam on some railways in Britain in 1996.

Thanx for listening. See ya.

Don

[siberianmo]

The Cast of Characters from ”Our” Place

siberianmo Tom is the Proprietor and head bartender. [4:-)][oX)]

Theodorebear Ted is the Manager.

nickinwestwales Nick is Chief Chef. [C=:-)]

trolleyboy Rob is the Bar Chandler.

Boris is - well, he’s Boris who works in the kitchen and anywhere else needed. He was hired by Nick, Chief Chef and is assistant cook. He’s not too hard to spot, as Boris is not of this world. Kinda difficult to maintain eye contact with him. He’s playful and unaware of his strength. We do not permit him to tend bar – however, he loves to ring the bell when a round is purchased.

Tex the Armadillo is Boris’ pet!

Awk the Parrot is Tom's pet!

Leon the Night Man is Tom’s relief behind the bar around 9 PM or so, Central Time. He closes up. He’s easily recognized by his rather large size, enormous hands, and shiny brand new Jump Boots. Leon also serves as Doorman and Bouncer for special events and may be seen in a tuxedo – with Jump Boots of course.

Inspector Clueless of the Local Constabulary and his earstwhile friend and companion Mr. Doyle, Private Investigator make up the security force ‘round here.

The Gals of “Our Place” are:

Ruth the redhead – Ann the blonde – Lucy the brunette and Jemima the raven haired beauty. These gals were found and hired by Tom and named by Nick. They work evenings, pretty much anywhere in the place, Thursday thru Saturday, and special events. Look, but don’t touch – at least not while on duty!

Then there’s Cindy with the auburn hair. She’s a faculty member from the Mentor Village all female University – right up the road. She’s not paid, but loves to volunteer her services either behind the bar – for me – or in the kitchen, with Nick. She’s also active in the local Victoria’s Secret lingerie shows …….

Then of course, there are all of YOU!

Tom, Proprietor of "Our" Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[siberianmo]

Hello again wanswheel Mike!

An aspect of cyber space is we can pretty much make this place anything we want it to be. One can imbibe or not, one can orate or not, and one can particpate or else! [swg]

Whatever "floats your boat" is fine with us, Mike just as long as YOU feel comfortable with US! [tup] 'Nuf said on that score and I hope our regulars let it go at that as well. <HINT!>

I like your analogy of the long and wobbyly walk to the observation car. That has a special meaning for my wife and I. We are Via Rail travelers and have been for approaching 16 years. Most of our trips have been between Montreal and Halifax, although we have crossed Canada twice aboard the Canadian on round trips between Toronto and Vancouver. In bring this up simply to mention that we generally book our bedroom in the rearmost car of the train - the Park Car, which is a Budd stainless steel observation dome car with 4 bedrooms, two lounges, and of course a great 24 seat dome. So, we've made that walk many times back from the dining car, or simply back from a "tour" of the train, sometimes with as many as 22 cars, while rolling to our destination. Long and wobbly is just about right! [tup]

I recommend you consider use of a word processing program for compiling anything that you want to Post on this or other threads. It surely will save you the grief of having something "lost" in the Ether - which happens! By having your work "saved" to a WP program, it never gets lost. Once you are ready, just cut 'n paste it over to the "Message" block - review it - and submit. It's that simple a process - really! [tup]

Glad you enjoyed the list of Classic name passenger trains. That's precisely why it was Posted - for all to enjoy! [tup]

Don't be a stranger, and your Dr. Pepper is right over there ....... (Diet, of course!) [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #26

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Chicago, Milwaukee, Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific Railroad (The Milwaukee Road) from an advertisement in Classic American Trains


”Gee, Daddy, they had a private car just for us ladies.”

That’s right, young lady. There is a combination Touralux-coach, with 8 berth sections and 24 reserved coach seats exclusively for women and children on The Milwaukee Roads OLMYPIAN HIAWATHA.

The tastefully decorated Touralux sleeping cars have individually lighted and air conditioned berths. Yet berth cost and fare on a round trip between Chicago and Seattle is about $37 less than in standard sleepers.

You can travel in comfortable, reclining chair coaches . . . for less than 2 cents a mile . . . round trip between Chicago and Seattle only $76.20 plus tax.

While the OLYMPIAN HIAWATHA offers these unique advantages for the thrifty, it also provides de luxe Pullman accommodations. No matter what your choice, you enjoy fine food, friendly service and a fast schedule of 45 hours between Chicago and the Pacific north coast over a gloriously scenic route.

You can go to California via Seattle-Tacoma at little or no added rail fare. Ask your local railroad agent, or write: F. N. Hicks, Passenger Traffic Manager, 708 Union Station, Chicago 6, Illinois.

. . . . . . . . . .OLYMPIAN Hiawatha
. . . . . . . . . . . . Daily service between . . . . . . . . .
CHICAGO-MILWAUKEE-TWIN CITIES –MILES CITY-BUTTE-SPOKANE-SEATTLE-TACOMA

Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific Railroad – THE MILWAUKEE ROAD


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[wanswheel]

Tom, just a Diet Dr. Pepper thanks

These pages here sort of reminds me of a long and wobbly walk to the observsation car.

Tom I enjoyed the list of passenger trains, many beloved old names there. Best of all at the moment, it confirms my belief that the Montrealer was a joint operation by 4 railroads. However I think of the Washingtonian as the same train, just going in the opposite direction.

Coalminer your reference to St. Albans really hit the spot.
My grandfather and 2 of his brothers, farm boys from Prince Edward Island, found work there on the CV in the early 1900s. All 3 became engineers. First they had to shovel some coal, of course.

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!

I wasn't going to do this, as I wanted to take a loooooooooooong break from the keyboard. However, my landscaping of the S Capades is in the drying stages, and I'm waitin'..... [swg]

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 16 Nov 2005, 10:57:32

It's a good thing that you aren't retired, given the amont of time YOU are spending at the keyboard! Always can tell when you are "off.'" [swg]

Good idea about the CN diesels Post for Dan. I've sent him an Email (again), as I have done with Dave just to let them know they are missed 'round here. [tup]

Well, I'd say grey and lumpy K-rations are probably "right on!" So, don't sweat the smalll stuff, but for goodness sake - don't eat of it! [swg]

Just thought of something - now that I'm "locked" in for our Rendezvous better test run that CN F7 we've discussed! The PCC car is still in the box - as new as the wind driven snow! [:D]

I can recall seeing strings of NYC coal hoppers back in the 40's and 50's. In the mid-50's, I was watching other things - the ocean swells, gulls, and gals ashore! [swg]

daveklepper Dave Posted: 16 Nov 2005, 10:57:50

Given that we are an interactive site, I normally do not respond to the "hit 'n run" Posts. However, you are a "known" to me and you've made a postive contribution to the conversation regarding those Classic name passenger trains that I posted.

As the lead in mentioned, the list was never intended to be all inclusive, that's why I used the word, "Some." Further, I would never, ever suggest that I have the background and knowledge base to compile an "end all" list. <Good Grief!>

You are absolutely on the mark though, given the numbers of "other" trains making their respective ways throughout the continent.

Had you been a regular 'round here, you would have been Tweeeeeeeet, Tweeeeet'd for a Rules Violation. Rule #1 - Greet the barkeep upon entering. Rule #2 - order a drink (we have to pay the bills, doncha know!) But, you are not - so no sweat.

Okay guys (guyz - got that, trolleyboy [?]), I'm back to gettin' a few things done. I'll still take care of the bar and sandwich orders.

Watch for the NOSTALGIA piece! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[daveklepper]

The list of passenger trains is impressive but the total count of course is about double, on the average, because there were also the commuter, mixed, and plug runs, like the Witchita connection for the Colorado Eagle, and all those unnamed Boston Gloucester and Boston Portsmouth Boston and Maine trains. The C&O ran a Cincinnati - Hamond, IL passenger train for a short time after WWII. and in the summer of 1950 I rode the D&H's Scranton - Carbondale service, 2-8-0 pulling steel arch roofed open platform roller bearing coaches.

Ah yes, the LV, with their first modernization of old coaches into something more modern, with an egg-crate ceiling under flourescent light so that when you reclined your comfortable coach seat and attempted to sleep you were blinded even with eyes closed by the glare of the flourescents beamed right down on you. They did change that after a while. Proabably called in Otto Khuler to take a look at the problem.

But the wonderful memories of being *** Horstmann's "share of expenses" guest on LV353.

[trolleyboy]

Morning Tom just a coffee and samich as I'm shortly to work for the day.[sigh]
Loved the named passenger trains, you put one by me that I didn't even know about. The TH&B Ontarion,I'll have to do "smore" reading.[tup]

I did mix up some of the K's for Boris and Tex. One question though are they supposed to be grey and lumpy ? [xx(][:O] No worries Boris and Tex loved them,should cut down on the dog food bill.[:D]

Ted Now hold on you start a topic thread someone answers and then you defer it till later ? Sheesh. seriously though it should be a good topic starter. that really early steam is on the interesting side. I have a bit of B&O info I will share later once you get your thoughts going on it. Happy wiring BTW [:D] I know your pain, though perhaps a drastic if you can't soarce it pull it out and redo might be in order. I do like Nick's Basil Fawlty suggestion though. Works for me [tup][:D]


Nick ,CM3, & Tom Glad you liked the diesel roster,took a bit of time to type up,and that was only the US based locomotives on the GTW/DTI DWP, and CV. The CN list proper is at least twice as long.[:O] Not sure if I will bother posting it, at least not in it's entirity in one sitting at any rate. Should give an idea of how the power was spread out. As CM3 said they tended to trade power back and forth quite readily,thankfully complete renumbering wasn't usually done,notable exceptions are the DTS and DT&I locomotives that generally got a didget or two added to their numbers. CNR has generally always used 4 didget numbers on their diesels still do today.

Tom I think Dan would have enjoyed it. Well when he gets back up and running, I can alway's rerun it on an encore saturday.


CM3 Nice list of NYC coal customers as well.I've never thought of the NYC as a major coal carrier,see you learn something everyday.[tup] I wonder why any of us bother with the rest of the forum with the info to be had here. Tom set up a round for the Boys and girls [tup]

John glad you've made it back, question away we are happy to help,though as Tom said don't be affraid to pop in a word or two as well.Tom & Nick covered the smilies farly well. I found it handy to jot down the symbol codes for the ones I us ethe most, easier for me that way. Just a small hint as it were.


Since it's pike's perspectives day, I haven't much new to report ( been typing too much [:-^] ) . I did lay out the lower town and began some final spiking and tamping down of the track. Used the handy dandy alligator clips on the rail ends to move a couple of the stretcars through the city scape. Should work out well. I had two brills passeach other and with a few people and cars in trucks thrown in the pink foam roads didn't look all that out of place. I did snap a couple shots and will post them once they are developed.

The only other thing I accomplished this week was I finally tested the old walther's Birney I aquired a few months ago. It dates from the early 60's,and it's white metal body is quite heavy. To my supprise though it's old ( I'm assuming original ) 3 pole open frame motor still works.The noise frightened the cat and supprised me but man that ting can go. If it were a freight locomotive it could probably pull an impressive string of cars! Or at least uproot a stump or two!

I'll check back in this evening.

Rob
'

[siberianmo]

Good Mornin’ Gang!

I seem to have gotten “behinder” the harder I try to move ahead! [swg]

“Taps” were a bit early in Siberianmo’s Haus last night as “Reveille” was early (as always)! Had to give the old body a chance to recharge, so to speak. [swg]

Some brief acknowledgments are in order, and there are quite a few I see. Good show and ‘bout time at that! [tup][tup]

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 19:11:56

<Geesh> Rob that is quite a labor you put forth in compiling that fantastic listing of CN’s diesel motive power. 4.0 job for sure! [tup][tup][tup] Wish earlydiesels Dan would make a recovery and comeback, for he’d surely enjoy this fine Post of yours.

Theodorebear Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 20:41:58

Things just aren’t the same ‘round here without you, “ole timer,” and it’s good to see that you’ve resurfaced. [tup] Received and replied and received the Emails! [swg]

“Iron Clad” and the “Ogre” has a nice “ring” to it …. Good references! [tup] [swg] Boris didja hear that [?] You’re not only a cloven footed Transylvanian, you are now also the Ogre of “Our” Place [yeah][wow] I think it’s time to take your Iron Clad buddy, Tex the Armadillo out back to let him do what has to be done! <phew>

pwolfe Pete Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 21:51:09

I know several of you enjoyed the Fallen Flag series by the responses that have been Posted. Appreciate the support! [tup][tup] You surely will enjoy todays “Extra” that I’ve compiled. Took quite a bit of time typing all of that ……. Couldn’t cut ‘n paste it for some reason.

You’re off the hook regarding the subway vs trolley reference! [swg] Okay, Vito the Hit, scratch him off your list - no, no, no – don’t scratch him per se! <Geesh>

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 16 Nov 2005, 00:45:33 and 00:52:19

Don’t quite know what to make of those 1942 K-rations you found. This building has been here for decades and decades. Must’ve been a private stash you came up with. My guess is the stuff is alright – mix up a pot and test it on Boris [swg]

Interesting stuff on the Civil War Canadian RR connection. Since you, Sir, are our Canadian contact man – I’d expect s’more on this! Don’t expect the “Yanks” to do all the work! <Geesh> Nice try! [swg]

jlampke John Posted: 16 Nov 2005, 05:45:38

As you can see, John at times this is a very busy place. Since we boast of being interactive and a place where acknowledgments are provided to one and all (exceptions being the “hit ‘n run” and “jerks” who from time to time wander in) it takes time to prepare these replies. Sorry it you have been waitin’ too long! [swg]

So, [#welcome] to ”Our” Place and enjoy the drink! [tup] By the by, you order it, we’ve got it! That’s the way things are done ‘round here. The only thing I cannot promise are beers from the Micro Breweries across the world. Hard to get ‘em through our Distributor! [swg] So, we stick with the bottled and draughts of the more familiar heralds. Hard stuff, we’ve got it – lots of it!

No problems with asking questions, for I’m sure you’ll receive responses over time. However, some reciprocity goes a looooooooong way, so don’t be shy about “talking up” your RR knowledge and experiences.

nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 16 Nov 2005, 06:57:17

A daylight visit from our West Wales Connection and Chief Chef (albeit part-time now) [C=:-)], Nick! How’s that for an intro [?][?] [swg]

Well, it appears we’ve got a “lock” on four commitments to the First Annual ”Our” Place Rendezvous in Toronto! in May 2006. As the Emails have been flying back and forth, just thought I’d drop this word on ya this AM. Friday, the 12th of May we’ll be “doing Toronto” on steel rails. Via Rail, GO, subways and street cars. Should be one hulluva good time, not to mention the Thursday, Friday and Saturday evenin’ get togethers! [yeah][wow]

I will definitely keep you in mind regarding my subway project as I know there will be some obstacles to overcome. Give that this is “Pike Persepctive’s Day” I can get away with this subject! [swg] The entire layout is supported by folding metal legs – lots of ‘em for the 32 ft length and 15 ½ foot width (widest point) of the Can-Am. The subway will be restricted to a run beneath Can-Am city – I figure something on the order of a 3 ½ x 7 or 8 ft space. Very simple affair – an oval within an oval – trains runnin’ in opposite directions. Stations and detailed tunnels will be made on my work bench and fitted into the spaces provided. The “portals” or “shadow box windows” have yet to be constructed, but I’m planning on three of them that will provide the only views of the trains beneath the city. There will be illumination from above – just sufficient to provide the viewer with sufficient light to catch the details. Should be fun, and of course a labor.

Appreciate the round! So while the bride’s away, the cat will play, eh [?] Hey – I’ve been there, done that, and will do it again! [swg]

Theodorebear Ted Posted: 16 Nov 2005, 07:08:33

Thanx for the “plugs” for “Our” Place. Nothin’ ventured, nothin’ gained, as someone far more profound in thinkin’ than I, said once or thrice! [swg]

Yes, the Rendezvous is movin’ ahead – and discussed within this Epistle. Really, really lookin’ forward to it. [tup][tup][tup]

Your mention of pix brings to mind that we seem to be in a drought of sorts with the Sunday Photo Posting Day! theme. I don’t have a problem with an occasional photo being Posted, but when it comes to a series of ‘em, let’s save those for Sunday.

coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 16 Nov 2005, 07:53:45

Good Day, Sir. Thanx for the round and quarters for Herr Wurlitzer!. Good selections, as usual for the AM’s “background’ music. [swg]

Man oh man, why in such a hurry [?] Isn’t like you at all. That Permanent Stool we awarded you just a short time ago is meant to be sat upon, not used to spring board yourself outta here! [swg]

When you come up for air, you may want to scroll back a page or three – there’s some questions and comments to be addressed. [tup]

nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 16 Nov 2005, 07:53:52

If there’s one thing I can count on ‘round here it is my staff comin’ up with more things for ME to do! [swg] I’ve got to rethink this relationship ……..

For John and anyone else:

Additional smilies may be found at this URL:

http://www.railroadforum.com/forum/faq.asp#smilies

Wait for them to load and then RIGHT click on whatever one you are interested in. Go to PROPERTIES and copy the URL shown – the entire URL. Then paste it in your document.

Here’s the ESSENTIAL part: You must use the bracketed img before and after the URL with no spaces. The last bracketed img looks like this /img – be sure to use the brackets [].

coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 16 Nov 2005, 08:31:52

So, how ‘bout some reciprocity! [?] Glad you liked it …….

nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 16 Nov 2005, 08:50:25

If there’s one thing you’ll never convince me of, it is you being speechless! [swg]

She didn’t’ – It did – I don’t! [swg]

Catch y’all later!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


My nagging reminder to all! – When Posting, try not to check out immediately thereafter. Review your Post (wait for it to “come up” on the screen) and you just may find that there is another right before or after yours. Then hit the “Refresh” button. This works and prevents one from missing someone else’s timely input. You can always “edit” your submission to include commentary for the more recent “stuff.”

[nickinwestwales]

[4:-)]TOM-I`m speechless-does Cindy do your typing for you ? that must have taken a day and a night-how do you get anything else done.........wow.........nick[C=:-)]

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Again:

Hokey smokes, Bullwinkle! A most excellent list of psr train names.

work safe

[siberianmo]

G’day!

Here’s a little something you may find of interest. It has been used with permission from: http://www.innvista.com/default.htm with some additions (noted) and minor editing.

We’ll call this Fallen Flags Extra!

While there are some differences between the Fallen Flags that I have Posted for Passenger Trains, there’s no reason to do anything other than enjoy the names of these fine passenger trains!

Some Name Passenger Trains by Railroad in 1948

This list includes trains from North America only. This gives an idea of the number of passenger trains operating in Canada and the United States in 1948. The name trains have been listed according by railroad that they traveled over. In some cases just the Pullman equipment traveled over these lines.

Atchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe (AT&SF)

1. Antelope
2. California Limited
3. California Special
4. Cavern
5. Centennial State
6. Chicagoan
7. Chief
8. El Capitan
9. El Pasoan
10. Fast Mail Express
11. Golden Gate
12. Grand Canyon
13. Kansas Cityan
14. Oil Flyer
15. Ranger
16. San Diegan
17. Scout
18. Super Chief
19. Texas Chief
20. Tulsan
21. West Texas Express

Atlanta and West Point (A&WP)

1. Crescent
2. Piedmont Limited

Atlantic Coast Line (ACL)

1. Champion (East Coast)
2. Champion (West Coast)
3. City of Miami
4. Dixie Flagler
5. Dixie Flyer
6. Dixie Limited
7. Everglades
8. Flamingo
9. Georgian
10. Havana Special (East Coast)
11. Havana Special (West Coast)
12. Miamian
13. Palmetto
14. Seminole
15. South Wind
16. Southland
17. Sunchaser

Baltimore and Ohio (B&O)

1. Ambassador
2. Capitol Limited
3. Cincinnatian
4. Cleveland Night Express
5. Columbian
6. Diplomat
7. Marylander
8. Metropolitan Special
9. National
10. Royal Blue
11. Shenandoah

Bangor & Aroostook (BAR) (added by siberianmo)

1. Aroostock Flyer
2. Potatoland Special

Boston and Maine (B&M)

1. Alouette
2. Flying Yankee
3. Green Mountain
4. Gull
5. Kennebec
6. Minute Man
7. Monadnoch
8. Montrealer
9. Mount Royal
10. Mountaineer
11. New Englander
12. Penobscot
13. Pine Tree
14. Red Wing
15. State of Maine
16. Washingtonian

Canadian National Railways (CNR)

1. Ambassador
2. Continental Limited
3. Gull
4. Inter-City Limited
5. International Limited
6. LaSalle
7. Maple Leaf
8. Maritime Express
9. Montrealer
10. New Englander
11. Northland
12. Ocean Limited
13. Owl
14. Scotian
15. Washingtonian
16. Winnipeg Limited

Canadian Pacific Railway (CPR)

1. Alouette
2. Chicago Express
3. Chinook
4. Dominion
5. Frontenac
6. Great West
7. Gull
8. Kettle Valley Express
9. Kootenay Express
10. Laurentian
11. Michigan
12. Montreal Limited
13. Overseas
14. Red Wing
15. Royal York
16. Viger
17. Winnipeger

Central of Georgia (CG)

1. City of Miami
2. Flamingo
3. Nancy Hanks
4. Seminole
5. Southland
6. Sunchaser

Central Vermont (CV)

1. Ambassador
2. Montrealer
3. New Englander
4. Vermonter
5. Washingtonian

Chesapeake and Ohio (C&O)

1. F. F. V.
2. George Washington
3. Resort Special
4. Sportsman

Chicago and Eastern Illinois (C&EI)

1. Cardinal
2. Dixie Flagler
3. Dixie Flyer
4. Dixie Limited
5. Dixie Mail
6. Georgian
7. Meadowlark
8. Silent Knight

Chicago Great Western Railway (CGW) (added by siberianmo)

1. Blue Bird
2. Great Western Limited
3. Rochester Special
4. Red Bird
5. Legionnaire
6. Minnesotan
7. Mills Cities Limited
8. Nebraska Limited
9. Twin Cities Limited

Chicago and Northwestern (C&NW)

1. Arrowhead Limited
2. Ashland Limited
3. Ashland Mail
4. Capitol 400
5. Chicago Limited
6. City of Denver
7. City of Los Angeles
8. City of Milwaukee 400
9. City of Portland
10. City of San Francisco
11. Columbine
12. Commuter 400
13. Duluth-Superior Limited
14. Flambeau 400
15. Gold Coast
16. Los Angeles Challenger
17. Green Bay 400
18. Kate Shelly 400
19. Los Angeles Limited
20. Minnesota 400
21. Mondamin
22. Nightingale
23. North American
24. Northwestern Limited
25. Pacific
26. Peninsula 400
27. San Francisco Challenger
28. San Francisco Overland
29. Shoreline 400
30. Twin Cities 400
31. Utahn
32. Valley 400
33. Victory
34. Viking

Chicago, Burlington, and Quincy (Burlington Route) (CB&Q)

1. Ak-Sar-Ben
2. Alaskan
3. Black Hawk
4. California Zephyr
5. Denver Zephyr
6. Empire Builder
7. Exposition Flyer
8. Mainstreeter
9. Mark Twain Zephyr
10. Nebraska Zephyr
11. North Coast Limited
12. Oriental Limited
13. Sam Houston Zephyr
14. Silver Streak Zephyr
15. Texas Zephyr
16. Twin Cities Zephyr (am, pm)
17. Western Star
18. Zephyr Rocket

Chicago Great Western (CGW)

1. Mill Cities Limited
2. Minnesotan
3. Nebraska Limited
4. Omaha Express

Chicago, Indianapolis, and Louisville (Monon) (CI&L)

1. Bluegrass
2. Thoroughbred
3. Tippecanoe

Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul, and Pacific (Milwaukee Road) (CMSP&P)

1. Afternoon Hiawatha
2. Chippewa
3. Olympian Hiawatha
4. Morning Hiawatha
5. Pioneer Limited
6. Southwest Limited

Chicago, Rock Island, and Pacific (Rock Island) (CRI&P)

1. Choctaw Express
2. Corn Belt Rocket
3. Des Moines-Chicago Rocket
4. Des Moines-Omaha Limited
5. Golden State
6. Hot Springs Limited
7. Imperial
8. LaSalle St. Limited
9. Mid-Continental Special
10. Peoria-Chicago Express
11. Rocky Mountain Rocket
12. Short Line Express
13. Southwest Express
14. Texas Rocket
15. Twin Star Rocket
16. Zephyr Rocket

Delaware and Hudson (D&H)

1. Laurentian
2. Montreal Limited
3. Mountain Express

Delaware, Lackawanna, and Western (Lackawanna) (DL&W)

1. Chicagoan
2. Keystone Express
3. Lackawanna Limited
4. Merchants Express
5. New York Mail
6. New Yorker
7. Nickel Plate Limited
8. Owl
9. Phoebe Snow
10. Pittsburgh Express
11. Pocono Express
12. Westerner

Denver and Rio Grande Western (Rio Grande) (D&RGW)

1. California Zephyr
2. Colorado Eagle
3. Exposition Flyer
4. Mountaineer
5. Prospector
6. Royal Gorge
7. Yampa Valley Mail

Dominion Atlantic (DA)

1. Gull

Erie (Erie)

1. Atlantic Express
2. Erie Limited
3. Lake Cities
4. Mountain Express
5. Pacific Express
6. Southern Tier Express

Florida East Coast (FEC)

1. Champion (East Coast)
2. City of Miami
3. Dixie Flagler
4. Dixie Flyer
5. Dixie Limited
6. Everglades
7. Flamingo
8. Florida Special
9. Georgian
10. Havana Special (East Coast)
11. Kansas City
12. Florida Special
13. Memphian
14. Miamian
15. Palmland
16. South Wind
17. Southland
18. Sunchaser

Grand Trunk Western (GTW)

1. Inter-City Limited
2. International Limited
3. New York Express
4. LaSalle

Great Northern (GN)

1. Cascadean
2. Empire Builder
3. Fast Mail
4. Gopher
5. Oriental Limited
6. Pacific Coast Express
7. Red River
8. Western Star
9. Winnipeg Limited

Gulf Coast and Santa Fe (GC&SF)

1. California Special
2. Ranger
3. Texas Chief

Gulf, Mobile, and Ohio (GM&O)

1. Abraham Lincoln
2. Advance Midnight Special
3. Alton Limited
4. Ann Rutledge
5. Gulf Coast Rebel
6. Mail
7. Midnight Special
8. Night Hawk
9. Prairie State Express

Illinois Central (IC)

1. Chickasaw
2. City of Miami
3. City of New Orleans
4. Daylight
5. Green Diamond
6. Hawkeye
7. Illini
8. Iowan
9. Land O'Corn
10. Louisiane
11. Miss Lou
12. Night Diamond
13. Northern Express
14. Northwestern Limited
15. Panama Limited
16. Planter
17. Seminole
18. Southern Express
19. Southwestern Limited
20. Sunchaser

Ilinois Terminal (IT) (added by siberianmo)

1. Capitol Limited
2. City of Decatur
3. Fort Crevecoeur
4. Illini
5. Illmo
6. Mound City
7. Owl
8. Peoria Flyer
9. St. Louis Flyer
10. Sangamon

Kansas City Southern (KCS)

1. Flying Crow
2. Shreveporter
3. Southern Belle

Lehigh Valley (LV)

1. Asa Packer
2. Black Diamond
3. John Wilkes
4. Major
5. New York Express
6. Star

Louisville and Nashville (L&N)

1. Azalean
2. Dixie Flagler
3. Dixie Flyer
4. Dixie Limited
5. Flamingo
6. Georgian
7. Hummingbird
8. Pan-American
9. Piedmont Limited
10. South Wind
11. Southland

Maine Central (MC)

1. Gull

Minneapolis and St. Louis Railway (M&SL)

1. Day Express
2. Night Express

Minneapolis, St. Paul, and Sault Ste. Marie (Soo Line) (MSP&SSM)

1. Laker
2. Soo Dominion
3. Winnipeger

Missouri-Kansas-Texas (Katy) (MKT)

1. Bluebonnet
2. Katy Flyer
3. Katy Limited
4. Sooner
5. Texas Special

Missouri-Pacific (MP)

1. Colorado Eagle
2. Houstonian
3. Louisiana Sunshine Special
4. Missouri River Eagle
5. Missourian
6. Orleanean
7. Ozarkan
8. Pioneer
9. Rainbow Special
10. Royal Gorge
11. Southerner
12. Star
13. Sunshine Special
14. Texan
15. Texas Eagle

Nashville, Chattanooga, and St. Louis (NC&SL)

1. Dixie Flagler
2. Dixie Flyer
3. Dixie Limited
4. Georgian

National Railways of Mexico (NRM)

1. Sunshine Special

New York Central (NYC)

1. Berkshire
2. Booth Tarkington
3. Buffalo-Pittsburgh Express
4. Canadian
5. Chicago Express
6. Chicago Mercury
7. Chicagoan
8. Cincinnati Special
9. Cleveland Limited
10. Cleveland Mercury
11. Cleveland-Columbus Special
12. Columbus-Cleveland Special
13. Commodore Vanderbilt
14. Detroiter
15. DeWitt Clinton
16. Easterner
17. Empire State Express
18. Fifth Avennue Special
19. Forest City
20. Gateway
21. Great Lakes
22. Hendrick Hudson
23. Interstate Express
24. Iroquois
25. James Whitcomb Riley
26. Knickerbocker
27. Laurentian
28. Michigan
29. Michigan Special
30. Midnight Special
31. Midwestern
32. Minute Man
33. Missourian
34. Mohawk
35. Montreal Limited
36. Motor City Special
37. Mountain Express
38. New England States
39. New York Special
40. Niagara
41. North Shore Limited
42. North Star
43. Northerner
44. Ohio Special
45. Ohio State Limited
46. Ontarion
47. Overseas
48. Pacemaker
49. Pittsburgh-Buffalo Express
50. Royal York
51. South Shore
52. Southwestern State Special
53. Sycamore
54. Texas Special
55. Tuscarora
56. Twentieth Century Limited
57. Twilight Limited
58. Wolverine

New York, Chicago, and St. Louis (Nickel Plate Road) (NYC&SL)

1. Chicagoan
2. New York Mail
3. New Yorker
4. Nickel Plate Limited
5. Westerner

New York, New Haven, and Hartford (New Haven) (NH)

1. Bankers
2. Champion
3. Colonial
4. Cotton Blossom
5. Everglades
6. Federal
7. Havana Special
8. Merchants Limited
9. Miamian
10. Montrealer
11. Palmetto
12. Palmland
13. Patriot
14. Peach Queen
15. Pilgrim
16. Quaker
17. Senator
18. Silver Meteor
19. Silver Star
20. Sunland
21. Valley Express
22. William Penn
23. Washingtonian

Norfolk and Western (N&W)

1. Birmingham Special
2. Cannon Ball
3. Cavalier
4. Chicago Daylight Express
5. Chicago Night Express
6. Cincinnati Daylight Express
7. Cincinnati Night Express
8. Pelican
9. Pocahantas
10. Powhatan Arrow
11. Southerner
12. Tennessean
13. Union

Northern Pacific (NP)

1. Alaskan
2. Mainstreeter
3. North Coast Limited
4. St. Paul-Winnipeg

Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR)

1. Admiral
2. American
3. Azalean
4. Birmingham Special
5. Broadway Limited
6. Cannon Ball
7. Champion
8. Chicago Arrow
9. Chicago Daylight Express
10. Chicago Night Express
11. Cincinnati Daylight Express
12. Cincinnati Limited
13. Cincinnati Night Express
14. Clevelander
15. Colonial
16. Congressional
17. Cotton Blossom
18. Crescent
19. Detroit Arrow
20. Duquesne
21. Everglades
22. F. F. V.
23. Federal
24. Fort Pitt
25. General
26. George Washington
27. Golden Triangle
28. Gotham Limited
29. Havana Special
30. Hummingbird
31. Iron City Express
32. Jeffersonian
33. Juanita
34. Keystone Express
35. Liberty Limited
36. Mail
37. Manhattan Limited
38. Miamian
39. Mid-City Express
40. Montrealer
41. Northern Arrow
42. Palmetto
43. Palmland
44. Pan American
45. Patriot
46. Peach Queen
47. Pelican
48. Pennsylvania Limited
49. Pennsylvanian
50. Philadelphia Express
51. Philadelphia Night Express
52. Piedmont Limited
53. Pilgrim
54. Pittsburgh Express
55. Pittsburgher
56. Quaker
57. Rainbow
58. Red Arrow
59. Red Bird
60. Senator
61. Silver Comet
62. Silver Meteor
63. Silver Star
64. South Wind
65. Southerner
66. Southland
67. Spirit of St. Louis
68. Sportsman
69. St. Louisan
70. Sunland
71. Tennessean
72. Texas Eagle
73. Texas Special
74. Trailblazer
75. Union
76. Valley Special
77. Washingtonian
78. William Penn

Pittsburgh and Lake Erie (P&LE)

1. Buffalo-Pittsburgh Express
2. Pittsburgh-Buffalo Express
3. Washingtonian

Reading (RDG) (added by siberianmo)

1. Crusader
2. Wall Street
3. Schuylkill
4. King Coal
5. Harrisburg Special
6. Queen of the Valley
7. North Penn

Richmond, Fredericksburg, and Potomac (RF&P)

1. Cannon Ball
2. Champion
3. Cotton Blossom
4. Everglades
5. Havana Special
6. Miamian
7. Palmetto
8. Palmland
9. Silver Comet
10. Silver Meteor
11. Silver Star
12. Sunland

St. Louis-San Francisco (Frisco) (SLSF)

1. Firefly
2. Florida Special
3. Kansas City-Florida Special
4. Lone Star
5. Memphian
6. Meteor
7. Morning Star
8. Oklahoman
9. Sunnyland
10. Texas Special
11. Will Rogers

St. Louis Southwestern (Cotton Belt) (SLSW)

1. Lone Star
2. Morning Star

Seaboard Air Line (SAL)

1. Cotton Blossom
2. Orange Blossom Special
3. Palmland
4. Silver Comet
5. Silver Meteor
6. Silver Star
7. Sunland

Spokane, Portland & Seattle (SP&S) (added by siberianmo)

1. Columbia River Express
2. Empire Builder
3. Oriental Limited
4. Western Star
5. North Coast Limited
6. Mainstreeter

Southern Pacific (SP)

1. Acadian
2. Alamo
3. Argonaut
4. Beaver
5. Border Limited
6. Cascade
7. City of San Francisco
8. Coaster
9. Del Monte
10. Gold Coast
11. Golden State
12. Hustler
13. Imperial
14. Klamath
15. Lark
16. Mail
17. Morning Daylight
18. Noon Daylight
19. Oakland Lark
20. Owl (2)
21. Passenger (2)
22. Rouge River
23. San Francisco Challenger
24. San Francisco Overland
25. Sunbeam
26. Sunset Limited
27. West Coast

Southern Railway (SR)

1. Aiken-Augusta Special
2. Asheville Special
3. Birmingham Special
4. Carolina Special
5. Crescent
6. Florida Special
7. Peach Queen
8. Pelican
9. Piedmont Limited
10. Ponce de Leon
11. Royal Palm
12. Southerner
13. Sunnyland
14. Tennessean

Toronto, Hamilton, and Buffalo (TH&B)

1. Ontarion

Union Pacific (UP)

1. Butte Special
2. City of Denver
3. City of Los Angeles
4. City of Portland
5. City of St. Louis
6. City of San Francisco
7. Columbine
8. Gold Coast
9. Idahoan
10. Los Angeles Challenger
11. Los Angeles Limited
12. Northwest Special
13. Pacific
14. Pony Express
15. Portland Rose
16. San Francisco Challenger
17. San Francisco Overland
18. Spokane
19. Utahn
20. Yellowstone Special

Wabash Railroad (WRR)

1. Banner Blue
2. Blue Bird
3. City of Kansas City
4. City of St. Louis
5. Detroit Limited
6. Midnight Special
7. Omaha Limited
8. Red Bird
9. St. Louis Limited (2)
10. Wabash Cannon Ball

Western Pacific (WP)

1. California Zephyr
2. Exposition Flyer
3. Royal Gorge

Western Railway of Alabama (WRA)

1. Piedmont Limited


Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[nickinwestwales]

Quick note-JOHN-the `smilies` are accessed from the left side of the quick reply panel at the bottom of each page,just type in the brackets,letters,symbols as shown and then hit `preview reply`to check that it`s `taken`.
There are some rather more animated ones available from another site(e.g. Awk the parrot ) which [4:-)]TOM,as master of computer arcana will no doubt be happy to walk you through ,speak soon,nick[C=:-)]

[coalminer3]

Good Morning: Coffee, please; round for the house; $ for the jukebox. Merle Travis this a.m. with "9-Pound Hammer," and Billy Edd Wheeler with "Coal Tattoo," one of the beter mining songs out there, IMHO.

A most interesting list re CN locomotive assignements, r/p, etc.

The CV-GT-CN-DWP moved and swapped power around so much it'll make your head spin. What was even more bewildering is that the engine numbers would sometimes change, too. I never knew what I was going to find when I went to St. Albans or to White River Junction.

I am slowly reading through all of the electrification material which has been posted recently. I am saving a lot of these postings.

As for LV passenger cars, Morning Sun did three books of LV color material. You will find a fair amount of coverage in those books. IIRC, LV 6 a HW business car is still with us. I used to see it in Syracuse a lot. Archer's book on the LV is probably the best overview out there although it does not have a locomotive roster. More's the pity as the Valley had some interesting motive power.

They started looking at diesels in the 1920s with locomotives bult by AlcoGE Ingersoll-Rand, MAcintosh&Seymour, and Mack. Up through the war years, they purchased switchers from EMC, Alco, and GE, The GEs were 44 tonners. Their first Baldwins were five VO1000s bought in 1944. The last of these survived until they were scrapped in 1972.

They bought FTAs, FTBs and F3As and F3Bs between 1945 and 1948. The PAs came in 1948. FAs and FBs were added in 1948. and the lmore Baldwins (DS4-4-1000s) joined the roster in 1949-1950.

The 1950s were a busy time as F7As and F7Bs, FA and FB2s, BLW S12s (the last Baldwins they bought). SW8s, SW9s, RS11s and GP9s were all added. The following types were added betwen 1960 and 1974: RS11s, GP18s, C420s, C628s, GP38s, GP38-2s, and U23Bs.

The LV did a lot with trade-in programs and also r/b more than a few units over the years. Most folks remember the C628s (aka "Snowbirds" because of their white color scheme. I remember being in the shops at Sayre when several of the snowbirds were being worked on. They were big, but looked tiny inside that monstrous shop building. Many of those engines started life on the Monon. BTW, most of you probably know this, but the LV called their switchers "pups." Always liked that.

Since we are doing a little with mines, here's a list of NYC-served mines in West Virginia. Dig out your maps of the NYC and look down toward the bottom right and you'll see a fairly extensive network of trackage in WV (lots of it is still active and is operated by the NS).

You will see some captive operations on the list and will notice that many operations were served both by the NYC and the C&O. The NF&G was a jointly-owned NYC/C&O railroad which desparately needs a book-length study similar to the one that was done not so long ago on the Mann's Creek RR.

New York Central

Alaska Coal Co.
Bellwood No. 71 Mine - Bellwood, WV (C&O/NYC)

Betty Paige Smokelss Coal Co.
Betty Paige Mine - Charmco, WV (C&O/NYC)
Bowyer & McClintic
Bowyer Mine - Springdale, WV (C&O/NYC)

Cannelton Coal & Coke Company (Controlled by Algoma Steel Corp, Ltd.)
Cannelton No. 3 Mine - Cannelton, WV
Cannelton No. 5 Mine - Cannelton, WV
Cannelton No. 100 Mine - Cannelton, WV

Cedar Grove Collieries
Cedar Grove Mine - Cedar Grove, WV/Kanawha River

Clear Creek Coal Co.
Brooke Mine - Clearco, WV (C&O/NYC)

Dixport Coal Co.
Cinco Mine - Leevale, WV (Kanawha County)
High Vein Coal Company
Amelia Mine - Amelia, WV (Kanawha County)

Jaromi Smokeless Coal Co.
Meadow Bluff No. 2 Mine - Rainelle, WV (NYC/C&O)

Low Ash Mining Co., Inc.
Green Siding Mine - Green Siding, WV (Fayette County) (C&O/NYC)
Meadow Bluff Smokeless Coal Co.

Laurel Creek Mine - Reese, WV (Greenbrier County) (NYC/C&O)

Mile Branch Coal Co.
New Raymond Mine - Cedar Grove, WV

Mountain View Coal Co.
Watts Mine - Rupert, WV (C&O/NYC)

New River & Pocahontas Consolidated Coal Co. - New River Division
Leslie Mine - Leslie, WV (Greenbrier County) - NYC/C&O

Otter-Eagle Coal Co. (Owned by Peters Creek Coal Co.)
Otter-Eagle Mine - Swiss, WV

Peters Creek Coal Co. (Owns Otter-Eagle Coal Co.)
Cornelia Mine - Cornelia, WV (Nicholas County)

Raine Lumber & Coal Co.
Duo Mine - Duo, WV (C&O/NYC) (Greenbrier County)

Rupert Smokeless Coal Co.
Bell Mine - Rupert, WV (C&O/NYC)

Semet-Solvay Division, Allied Chemical and Dye Corp
Harewood Mine – Harewood, WV and Kanawha River

Springdale Coal Co.
Springdale Mine – Bellwood WV (NYC/C&O)

Standard Fire Creek Cola Co. (Controlled by Republic Steel Corp.)
Beelick Knob Mine – Hawley, WV (C&O/NYC)

Standard Ore & Alloys Corp.
Clearco Mine – Clearco, WV (NYC/C&O)

Testa Bros. of West Virginia, Inc.
Belva Mine – Belva, WV


Warner Collieries Co.
Emily Mine – Mammoth, WV (Kanawha County)
Hurricane Mine No. 2 – Mammoth, WV

Nicholas, Fayette and Greenbrier Ry

Beech Knob Coal Co.
Beechknob Siding (Greenbrier Co.), WV

Greenland Coal Corp.
Greenland No. 2 Mine - Rupert, WV

Imperial Coal & Construction
Cobb Mine - Rupert, WV (C&O/NYC)

Johnstown Coal & Coke Co. (Wva)
Crichton No. 1 Mine - Crichton, WV
Chrichton No. 2 Mine - Bellburn, WV

Leckie Smokeless Coal Co.
Anjean Mines - Anjean, WV

Left Fork Fuel Co., Inc.
Timtony Mine - Quinwood, WV (NF&G/C&O)

Margarette Coal Corp.
Margarette Mine - Marfrance, WV

Note to the manager - that's why I have subsidence insurance on my fashionable sample of coal camp architecture. Doesn't cost that much, but it's nice to have, just in case.

work safe

[Anonymous]

Good morning you early risers. Tom, just a cuppa Joe to "kick start" the day please. Say Rob, thanks for your early response. I shouldn't have "opened a can of worms" so prematurely (Civil War). My time is "spoken for" with some problematic wiring puzzles to straighten out. There are a couple of ways of going at it and I must make some "for now and ever more" decisions. But truly, I was surprised at how advanced railroading had evolved prior to the U.S. Civil War period. Hopefully, I will find the time to get the "ball rolling" later next week or before. Any interested parties please "give it a go." In other words: "if I'm not there, start without me."[swg]

Early this A.M., I visited another thread concerning traction. Rob had already checked it out, so I merely left another invitation to "Our" Place for 2 enthusiasts. Perhaps we will have 2 new guests dropping by soon.[tup] Since I was "bounced" off my first post this morning, I must keep this one brief.

The "Rendesvous" for this Spring in Toronto is firming up now. Although it isn't until May, those thus far, attending are enthusiastically planning for maximum rail exposure and social exchanges. It should be a really good thing. Hopefully, some of our members will take a close look at the feasibility of meeting there too. I hate to "run off" like a thief in the night but Pike problems beckon. Maybe a pix or 2 of my earliest layout efforts may come through soon. Until then, all I can offer is a few verbal "shots." Okay, hope to check in later in the day. Happy rails

[nickinwestwales]

Well happy Wednesday to one and all,looking forward to pike perspectives and the weekend ( only one gig,albeit on sunday-almost like a holiday !! ).
Now I`m not normally a daylight tippler but as Missisnick is off on a work-related overnighter, I think I can bend a rule for the day so a Staropramen for me please [4:-)]TOM & put one in for yourself and the boys as and when ready whilst I knock up some bacon butties for myself & the track gang.
Right,whose been in since I was last about-
ROB- glad the pic made it through--extra large[tup] for the C.N allocations & roster-In a single page you have saved me hours of research-Top man [^][^]
SIR THEODORE-Always a pleasure to mix with quality [swg]--feel free to E-Mail me R.E. wiring [banghead] situation-perhaps a little brainstorming might point to a resolution. If all else fails the Basil Fawlty `hit it with a stick & swear` method,although unlikely to improve matters,will at least make you feel better ( works for me...doh )
PETE-Hi,nice to `see` you (so to speak)-Believe the problem with the `Rivers` was down to the height of the side tanks affecting the centre of gravity,whether this was a problem when full or caused by `slop` when part empty ( similar problems occur with road tankers I am told ) I don`t know.
I think I have a book of great rail disasters ( ghoulish but compulsive ) which may provide better data.
As to Welsh collieries, The last one was/is Tower,which was kept going after a workers buy-out ( you may remember this from before your re-location ) and had but one customer-Aberthaw Power Station,although I believe the mine is now mothballed & the power stn,if still running ,is fuelled by Orimulsion,Polish Lignite ( like coal but without the combustive qualities.....) or some such cr*p
[4:-)]TOM-as a past master at retro-fitting extra bits of layout into inaccessible areas,I may be able to help with any problems regarding the new Can-Am Metro project-please feel free to call on me at need
Right,have a good one guys,my chores await,later,nick[C=:-)]

[jlampke]

Mornin' Tom. I got here last night just as you were leaving. It was a rare moment where I wasn't being called upon to resolve one dilemma or another, so I decided to look around "OUR" place and await your return. I'll take you up on that first round, if you don't mind, a shot of Absolute and grapefruit, or whatever's behind the bar there that mixes with vodka! My sailor daze have yet to end!!
First off, I'd like to thank Ted, Pete, Nick & Rob for making us new guys feel welcome. You gents may or may not have noticed, but I do drop in several times a day to warm my hands over the stove and see what's being discussed, then usually and quietly return to my duties out on the rock pile. I must give the tax-payers their due!
At any rate, you'll find me to be more of an "ask-questions" sort of person than a talker....
Does the fare behind the bar include Absolute?
Also, how do you get those Message Icons (thumbs up, etc.) to post?
There was a short item on the History channel last night about the staged train collision
in 1896 at the short-lived town of Crush, TX, during which two 4-4-0's with six cars each were run head-on into each other at about a combined speed of 100 mph. Very interesting, I thought.
Alan, thanks for answering some of my questions about the ex-SP passenger cars.
Very interesting stuff..... I wonder how many still exist, hidden away somewhere or carefully preserved?
I'll check back in later............

[siberianmo]

WEDNESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

G’day!

Info for the Day:

Nothing special – “routine” for the week:

Today is “Pike Perspectives Day.”
Thursday is “Fish ‘n Chips Nite.”
Friday is “Pizza Nite” and “Steak ‘n Fries Nite.”
Saturday is “ENCORE!” day.

INDEX Mondays only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 01:49:36 (163) Tuesday’s Info & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 02:04:59 (163) Final Fallen Flag – GM&O

(3) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 04:33:36 (163)

(4) wanswheel Mike Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 04:59:44 (163)

(5) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 07:59:12 (163) Coal mines served by the LV

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 08:23:29 (163) reply to nickinwestwales – wanswheel – coalminer3

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 13:33:43 (163) NOSTALGIA #25 – AT&SF – Ad (1952)

(8) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 13:55:25 (163) Inclusive Post!

(9) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 14:55:15 (163) Classic Juice # 11 Electricity and the big roads in Canada Part 1 CNR

(10) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 15:22:02 (163) reply to trolleyboy, etc.

(11) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 17:52:36 (163)

(12) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 18:27:37 (163)

(13) siberianmo Tom Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 19:05:05 (163) reply to trolleyboy & Trainnut484

(14) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 19:11:56 (163) CN Diesels of 1983

(15) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 20:41:58 (164) Inclusive Post!

(16) pwolfe Pete Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 21:51:09 (164) Inclusive Post!

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[trolleyboy]

Hi I'm back. Ted I found a small shred of pre civil war train info from Canada.As you know Canada didn't become self govering until Confederation in 1867. The only list of pre US civil war pre confederation trains I can find is a tiny railway in Quebec ( lower Canada at the time ) It started in 1836 and was called the Champlain and St Lawrence Railway. Most of the eastern roads the Great western etc Started around 1869-1871 certainly after the civil war. Of coarse the main rail building boom didn't get into motion until 1885 when The federal government chartered the CPR. Hope this sparks so more dialogue [tup]

Rob

[trolleyboy]

Good evening everyone. Tom I'm back in again for a nightcap. Tea and maybe well no I think I'll leave the found K rations the US army 1952 packing date is a bit worrisome[xx(]

Pete Your welcome. I'm glad that you are enjoying the juice pieces and the CNR steam pieces, makes it all worthwhile,seeing that my efforts are appreciated.

The one thing thta I like about Ian Wilson's books is that he includes the minute details such as the locomotive types and numbers and the type of product moved by the trains.

I agree with you whole heartedly,it never ceases to amaze me that so many perfectly good electric lines are dieselized. In many cases the electric locomotives are simpler and cheaper to maintain. Oh well a rants an rant.

Ted Glad you came up for air,I do love sorting out wiring defects on layouts ( not really ) At least you will have some tales tomorrow for pike prospectives[tup] Looking forward to seeimg you in May, Tom and I hamered out some final details and we should be in for a good couple of days ( daze )


Ted I always liked some of the lessor known movie trains. the ride in White Christmas was quite nice. Santa Fe and then B&M. Some really good shots and publicity for them in that one.

I would love to take a crack at the pre civil war trains. I'll have to check but there wasn't much rail action in Canada at that time, for that matter Canada wasn't even a country yet. I'll take a peak and see if I have any info for you though.


Nick Recieved your email thanks for the photo. If I saved it correctly I'm going to see if I can post it for everyone to enjoy on Sunday.



Rob

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams and a round please to celebrate a great Fallen Flag series as Nick has said a very enlightening series espcially for a newcomer to N.American railroads[tup].

Welcome MIKE and JOHN.

Thanks TOM and AL for the additional info on the Lehigh and the link.

CM3 Looking at the list of anthracite mines in 1950 how many are still being worked today[?] I hope they have fared better than the mines in the U.K. I can remember in the early seventys travelling up one of the valleys one evening with the goods line full of loaded coal trains heading to the Cardiff area. I think there is only one deep mine left there now.[V].

ROB thanks for the gen on the trolley brakes[tup].Another great Juice its strange that even when the equipment is in place some lines prefer diesel.In the U.K. there are many diesel-hauled frieghts under the wires while they have almost new electric locos stored [%-)]
Also thanks for the Alliston Sub I very much enjoy reading what traffic each town provided to the railroad[tup] in some line discriptions this is some times overlooked.

Glad you are back NICK[^][tup] you are right about the 'Brighton' tanks. When they were re-built I think REMEMBRANCE kept the name. I always thought that they were good looking engines after re-building. If I recall right the final accident which resulted in the re-build was at Sevenoaks. I seem to re-call reading that there was some controversy over the cause of the accident.

Sorry TOM meant to say Subway Cars not Trolley[*^_^*] I'd better buy AWK a packet of peanuts as penance[tup]

TED just read your post do you know anything about a movie called The Great Locomotive Chase which came out in the early 50s[?] Anything on the ealy railroads would be great PETE.

[Anonymous]

Good evening all. Tom, I think a Tom Collins would "hit the spot" this p.m., please. Rob, I can't believe the prolific amount of data you have posted on so many interesting areas of "Juice." and railroadiana.[tup][tup][tup] Pete, it looks as though Cm3 and Passengerfan Al have "come through" on the L.V. passenger side for you.[tup] [C=:-)] Nick dear boy, good to see your back in fighting trim. We have missed your sage comments and barbed humo(u)r, not to mention those wonderful menus on Thursdays through Saturdays. Hoping to see you in May.

This has been one horrific day for maintenance and "nuts and bolts" tasks on the HO Pike.[V] I've run "head long" into some wiring puzzles that require my undivided attention. Its a good thing I'm "part time" now because their doesn't seem to be any respite near to hand. Say, John and Mike, good of you to drop in again. I hope you won't be strangers because, as you may have noticed, this is a fun and friendly place where much is on offer.

Trainnut484, hello again and yes, A.T.S.F. always had the edge on their Public Relations and advertising. The "route of the stars" comes to mind during the 1940's, when many promotional "spots" were included in movies of the time. Anything from Abbott and Costello to the Judy Garland Hit, "The Harvey Girls" were of that genre. BTW, don't ask me how the Bucks pulled their game off and I won't ask about the Cheifs, a deal? Best of luck with your "finals" when they come up.[tup]

I have always thought of the GM & O as just another southern states R.R. with a pretty much "lack luster" past. Not true! In fact, to my astonishment, there is an avid enthusiasm among southern rail enthusiasts for their Roads. Perhaps the Lines themselves are more dimunitive but their operations are no less interseting than those of the West and North. It might be interesting to examine some pre civil war railroading in the U.S. and Canada just from a historic view, if nothing else? Mind you, I wouldn't be interested in the politics of that age one whit. However, the Civil War epoch was the first time railroads played a major role in warfare. The battle of Chatanooga Tennesee and the "Great Locomotive Chase" comes to mind immediately. Then too, the post civil war era when desperados regularly looted and plundered trains in the "Old West" could be of some interest as well. Any one care to "kick the tires" and "test the brakes" on this one? Just a thought.[:D]

Okay Boris, you know what to do, right? Uh oh! He is going out back to walk "Tex" on his evening "constitution." What a pair: the Iron Clad and the Ogre.[:O]

[trolleyboy]

Here's some interesting info I dug out. This is a chart from rail Canada vol 1. It'sm showing the diesel strentgh on the CN and it's routes as of dec 31 1983. I'm just going to post the US assigned locomotives which were purchased and painyed for DW&P, GTW /DT&I/DTS and the CV. It will show build dates and the CN system model designators.




1500-1503 GR12C SW1200 built EMDin 1955 assigned to GTW
1509-1510 GR2J SW1200 built EMD in 1957 assigned to CV
1511 GR12Z SW1200 built EMD in 1960 assigned to CV
1512-1519 GR12ZA SW1200 built EMD in 1960 assigned to GTW
3600-3605 MR18A RS11 built ALCO in 1956 previous to 82 DWPin 1983 CV
3606-3608 MR18A RS11 built ALCO in 1956 assigned to DWP
3609 MR18A RS11 built ALCO in 1956 pre 82 DWP in 1983 CV
3610 MR18A RS11 built ALCO in 1956 assigned to DWP
3611-3614 MR18A RS11 built ALCO in 1956 pre 82 DWP in 1983 CV
4134-4138 GR17x GP9 built EMD in 1958 assigned GTW
4139 GR17X GP9 built EMD in 1957 assigned GTW
4427-4428 GR17b GP9 built EMD in 1954 assigned GTW
4430-4441 GR17d GP9 built EMD in 1954 assigned CV
4442 GR17d GP9 built EMD in 1956 assigned CV
4443-4444 GR17d GP9 built EMD in 1956 pre 82 CV after 1983 GTW
4445,4447 GR17d GP9 built EMD in 1956 assigned CV
4446 GR17d GP9 built EMD in 1956 pre 82 CV after 1983 GTW
4448-4450 GR17d GP9 built EMD in 1956 pre 82 CV after 1983 GTW
4539-4546 GR17j GP9 built EMD in 1557 assigned GTW
4547-4551 GR17j GP9 built EMD in 1957 assigned GTW
4552-4557 GR17j GP9 built EMD in 1957 assigned CV
4558-4559 GR17j GP9 built EMD in 1957 assigned to GTW
4700-4707 GR18a GP18 built EMD in 1960 assigned to GTW
4900-4901 GR17c GP9r built EMD in 1956 assigned to GTW
4902-4906 GR17c GP9r built EMD in 1956 assigned GTW
4907-4914 GR17k GP9 built EMD in 1957 assigned to GTW
4915-4927 GR17k GP9 built EMD in 1957 assigned to CV
4928-4929 GR17k GP9 built EMD in 1958 assigned to GTW
4930-4933 GR17w GP9 built EMD in 1958 assigned to GTW
5800-5811 GR20a GP38AC EMD in 1971 assigned to GTW
5812-5821 GR20d GP38-2 EMD in 1980assigned to GTW
5832-5836 GR20e GP38-2 EMD in 1978assigned to GTW
5850-5861 GR20g GP38-2 EMD in 1978 ex RI assigned to GTW
6041-6044 GR15 GP7 EMD in 1951 ex DTS 41-44 To GTW
6045-6049 GR15 GP7 EMD in 1952 ex DTS 45-49 To GTW
6050 GR15 GP7 EMD in 1953 ex DTS 50 To GTW
6200-6204 GR20 GP38 EMD in 1966 ex DTI 200-04 To GTW
6205-6206 GR20 GP38 EMD in 1969 ex DTI 205-06 To DTI
6207-6210 GR20 GP38AC EMD in 1970 ex DTI 207-10 TO GTW
6211-6220 GR20 GP38AC EMD in 1971 ex DTI 211-20 To DTI
Heavy road Freight
5900-5903 GF30f SD40 EMD in 1969 assigned to GTW
5904-5911 GF30f SD40 EMD in 1969 assigned to DWP
5912-5920 GF30g SD40 EMD in 1970 assignd to GTW
5921-5929 GF30j SD40 EMD in 1971 assigned to GTW
6250-6252 GF620 SD38 EMD in 1969 ex DTI 250-52 To DTI
6253-6254 GF620 SD38 EMD in 1970 ex DTI 253-54 To DTI
Us Lines Switch engines
1000-1003 CS9 S4 ALCO in 1949 ex GT 8082,84.8199,62 To GTW
6116-6118 GS12 SW7 EMD in 1950 ex DTS 116-18 To GTW
6119-6121 GS12b SW9 EMD in 1952 ex DTS 119-21 To GTW
7010-7014 GS12c SW9 EMD in 1953 assigned GTW
7015-7016 GS12d SW9 EMD in 1953 assigned CV
7017-7019 GS12d SW1200 EMD in 1955 assigned GTW
7225-7229 GS9b SW9 EMD in 1953 assigned GTW
7231-7232 GS9e SW9 EMD in 1958 assigned GTW
7967,7970 GS10a NW2 EMD in 1947 assigned GTW
7972,7974 GS10a NW2 EMD in 1948 assigned GTW
8027 MS10d S4 ALCO in 1953 assigned GTW
8034-8035 MS10f S4 ALCO in 1955 assigned GTW
8081,8093 MS10j S4 ALCO in 1942 assigned CV
8087,8088 MS10a S4 ALCO in 1947 assigned GTW
8120,8201,02 MS10k S4 ALCO in 1956 assigned CV

[siberianmo]

Good Evenin’,

Some acknowledgments:

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 17:52:36

Back once again! I’d be verrrrrrry careful about any suggestions regarding Vito the Hit, he’s just a tad “sensitive.” By the by, what size shoe do you wear [?] I hear “cement” is “in” this year! [swg]

Now I just don’t want to hear that “Bwoooooooooong, Gwooooooooong!” sound any more! That was supposed to be taken care of. The Gold plated clapper is (or was) in Awk’s cage as his perch. So, Boris, have YOU been messin’ with this [?] Get it restored to the way it was and do it NOW! <Geesh> These cloven footed guys are somethin’ else ……. [swg]

I think you need to take a break, your fingers appear to be getting stuck BETWEEN the keys! [swg]

Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 15 Nov 2005, 18:27:37

Whoa, is that our “part time” regular at the bar [?] [yeah] It’s the Santa Fe man himself! [tup] Ring it, Boris and let’s all enjoy that round that Russell has bought! [swg]

I think the Chiefs momentum got a bit sidetracked this past Sunday ……. [tdn]

Man oh man have you missed a lot. Veterans/Remembrance Day alone was something to behold and if you like RR ads – that’s where you can find ‘em.

Not trying to be contrary, but on a trip to KCity aboard Amtrak, the Café Car attendant did that very thing – warmed a bottle for a baby’s feeding. Probably doesn’t happen that often – but it happened and I was there in Business Class to witness it. Good show, eh [?]

Nice Santa Fe narrative ad …….. [tup]


Catch y’all later!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]


My nagging reminder to all! – When Posting, try not to check out immediately thereafter. Review your Post (wait for it to “come up” on the screen) and you just may find that there is another right before or after yours. Then hit the “Refresh” button. This works and prevents one from missing someone else’s timely input. You can always “edit” your submission to include commentary for the more recent “stuff.”

[Trainnut484]

Good evening Tom et all, and to the new cyber names that have been welcomed here. Miller Lite for me please, and give everyone their choice of poison on me [:)]

This semester is keeping me hoppin', but I've stuck my toe in a few times during the week trying to keep up with what's going on.

I owe a big belated congrats to CM3 for promotion to Permanent Stool Member.

Dan, I don't know why the block out gremilins are showing up. Have you recently added any new software?

Tom, the Nostalgia pieces on the LV, GM&O, and the Santa Fe are great. Most of the nostalgia some people focus on is of the trains themselves. Those trains wouldn't have ran without the pristine effort of the people who operated and served on those trains. For example, I've aquired an Santa Fe ad from June 1948 "Santa Fe Hospitality all the way."

"You've heard of hospitality, but have you ever sampled
the Santa Fe kind of hospitality?
Whether it's starting a streamliner smoothly...
serving you in the diner (Fred Harvey food, of course)...
turning down crisp, cool sheets in your Pullman...
adjusting your seat in a chair car...warming a bottle for the baby...
Santa Fe people take real pleasure in serving your well.
May we have the pleasure of serving you on your next trip through the
colorful Southwest, between Chicago and California and Texas?"

SANTA FE SYSTEM LINES...Serving the West and Southwest

I would have enjoyed such service. Do you think Amtrak today would warm up a baby bottle for a mother?

Take care for now,

Russell

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Tom guess it's just you and I in the either and the real world today.[tup][:D]

I have in fact been stocking up on the finest instant[swg][oops] columbian coffee that I can find. Of coarse if the paying public stay low then we will have to relay on that crate of old "K "rations, I found behind the shed. Wonder what nick can whip up with them.

Perhaps vito is the problem he may be scarring off the customers. We should end hi to Mama Leonies hitman finishing school. You know that no one likes a hitman that slouches,or doesn't show the common coutesies.

Seriously though it is wonderfull that the rendezvous is on track and happining [yeah] Good thing that labatts has a brewery or two in the GTA. It did seem like I had known you forever,you see that twisted sence of humour we both have comes through quite well on the keyboard. since I am certainly off topic Boris ring your ding lets have a round for the track crew and Tom and I. bwwoooong gwooong bwooong What the heck how did that happen again.[swg][:-^][:-^]

I think that i shall continue burning up the keyboard in efforts to drag some responses out,at leats until I develope carpel tunnel [swg]

Catch you soon.

Rob

[siberianmo]

G'day Rob

It surely appears that you are the only regular still around on this Earth today! Go figure, as the kids say. [swg] Really had hoped for the return of West Coast S Dave given the interest in the SP. Also passengerfan Al must be sequestered somewhere burnin' whatever "oils" are left in the lamp! [swg] Then there's our part-time Manager Thedodorebear Ted - a no show today. Hmmmmmmmm - hope all's well with him. Even coalminer3 CM3 kinda blew off today's "stuff." Better go check the coffee pot - you ARE ordering the good stuff, aren't you, Mr. Bar Chandler [?] No recycled coffee grounds 'round here ya know! [swg]

Figured with the new guys checkin' us out, we'd get some interaction goin' ..... nope. <frown> Oh well, win some - lose some - and some are (all together now!) rained out! [tup] [swg]

Yes, we had a good chat didn't we [?] Seemed like we've known one another all along - which of course we have if you consider how long we've been in the Ether! From the Canadian Passenger Railroads thread to the Coffee Shop to here. Guess that qualifies for a good start, eh [?]

I will more than likely resubmit those Fallen Flags for another run through given that many probably were missed, blown off or forgotten! Not by the "faithful" few, but perhaps by others. You are correct, a lot of work went into them and I suppose I can "justify" another "go"! Appreciate your appreciation! [swg]

Another Classic Juice!! We've just got to get you a 2nd job and keep you away from the keyboard, Mate! All kiddin' aside, gimme a break! [swg] Now, in all seriousity (another siberianmoism for you to steal!) they are appreciated and I hope the guys take the time to check 'em out. Lots of good info and of course effort. Thanx! [tup][tup]

Whenever I read your submissions about these electrified beauties (or beasts, depending on one's perspective!) I come away thinking how absolutely insane things can get regarding mass transportation. Here in St. Louis we are spending a King's Ransom for a piddly 8 mile expansion of a light-rail system when not that long ago trolley tracks linked the area! Arggggggggggggh. There used to be a saying, "Waste not, want not." And it applied pretty much to food on the table, but equally to precious resources too. I consider taxpayers dollars precious, especially if they are mine! Double - Arggggggggggggh. [soapbox] BUT on topic! [swg]

Really pleased with the forward momentum regarding our Rendezvous in Toronto for this May. To get four of us "locked" in at this juncture is outstanding, especially when one considers the relative small number we have as regulars. [tup]

You may certainly buy one of those Blues from Labatts for me - but it ain't comin' from ones (plural) you owe me! Those are to be paid up in Toronto! Nice try. <major grin> Hey, Vito the Hit keep an eye on this 'dodger' he's tryin' to skate out on his debt! <ooooooooooohhhhhhh>

Thanx for stoppin' in again (and again)!

Catch ya later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[trolleyboy]

a small tidbit possibly another installment of classic juice. oh heck why not.

Classic Juice # 11 Electricity and the big roads in Canada Part 1 CNR

The CNR had dabled in electrification over the years, Mostly in the pre-CNR days. The Grand Trunk on several occations dabbled with traction usually with predictable results ( they gave up and dieselized )

The GTR's first flirtation was in 1902. They purchased a small radial line the Hamilton,Grimsby & Beamsville.They did this to keep this interurban out of arch rival Canadian Northerns Hands who themselves were starting to amass a lot of samller lines electric and otherwise. (The irony of this of coarse is that both these roads failed and were the main components of the Candain National Railway.)

Three years later GTW sold this electric line to Cataract Power( ontario based electricity and traction company. The Brantford and hamilton was part of this group as well ) after losing interest in traction.

The very next year 1906 GTW purchased the Montreal and Southern Counties which had been incorporated in 1897 but has yet to start construction. The affair wasen't rushed no construction began really until 1909, even then it was slow and steady. The MS&C never reached it's intended target of Sherbrooke by 1925 when construction officially ended they were a 58 mile interurban. Sevice was discontinued in 1956.

The only mainline electrification Grand Trunk ever undertook wasthe St Clair Tunnel, this was only done after two fatal incidents with crews of steam engines asphyxiating in the 6,032 foot tunnel under the river.The tunnel was built in 1891 but even though desugbners said that electricity ws the way to do it the process was expensive so GT opted for athrasite burning 0-10-0's and a set of fans.The first accident occured in 1897 the second in 1904. So the electrification finally took place in1906 completeing in 1908. A four mile electric zone !The tunnel bed was lowered by CN in 1941 to increas capacity and lesson ferrry trips of frieght cars it was formally dieselized in 1958. Of coarse the whole tunnel was replaced in 1992.

The last major attempt at electrification by the Grand Trunk occured in BC. This was to be part of the Ill fated Grand Trunk Pacific.The Line between Prince Rupert BC and Fort Frasor was to be electrified do to the tunnels. The line started in 1905 with the last spike of the GTP layed in manitoba in 1914. Do to the lack of money the electrified portion never occured, Blasting of tunnels and some daylighting of the line was done instead at a far greater cost.The GTR bankrupsy of 1920 occured shortly after this second transcontinintal line was completed.

CNR's other predessesor the Canadian Northern also flirted with electrification.Most notably they began construction in 1912 the Mount Royal Tunnel in Montreal even though the co was racked with debt.

The CnoR felt that the tunnel has to be built because they had pooraccess to the city centre, as their terminus ws Morell street well east of downtown wher rivals CPR and GTW were located.With a population of 600,000 and being Canada's major seaport at the time the CnoR felt that money troubles or not they needed the access to Montreal to survive.

The new twin tracked tunnel ( under the city and the competition )was 3.3 miles and lentgh and was to be electrified.The electrification was to extend several miles beyond the tunnel . At Portal Heights the west side of the tunnel a station linkinf th CnoR with the CPR running above was to be built. A model town called Mount Royal was built to feed passengers to this new line.It ws laid out neatly with wide roads high quality houses etc and the roads wer paved with the stone excavated from the tunnel.The idea was that the inhabitants iof this new town werea ten minute ride to downtown via the CnoR's new electric line.


The project looked good on paper but by the time it was completed in 1918 the CnoR no longer existed. IT had been combined with tthe Candian government railways to form the new National Transcontinental and Inter colonial Railway. which in 1921 was joined by the defunct GTW/GTP to become the Candian National Railway.


What happened to the Mount Royal line? It's still around CN actually extended it Catenery and all to St Eustache & Deux montagnes. This comuter line is still operatied under the wire by CN for the Montreal transit authority !

The national harbour board electrics from the Port itself and the NS&T in Ontario wer also members of the Candian Northerns elctric lines and thus became CN property in 1921. The Mount Royal tunnel was demolished in 1943 and replaced byCN's Central station now the location od Place Boneventure. in 1964 montreal's subway system connect her with th electric MU coaches and Via trains,

At only 28 miles this electrified route certainly isn't the most impressive but it still operates today. heres how the rest of the CN electric lines panned out.


Toronto & Eastern ( ex CnoR ) aquired in 1917 abandined in 1924
Chatham Walaceburg & Lake erie ( ex CnoR )aquired 1917 abandoned 1930
Toronto Suburban Railway( ex Cnor ) aquired 1917 abandoned 1931 *
Shawinigan Falls Terminal RY ( ex GT joint CPR ) aquired 1950 dieselized 1958
Montreal & Southern Counties( ex GT ) service ended 1956
St Clair tunnel line ( ex GT )aquired 1920 dieselized 1958 largly unused 1992
Quebec Railway Light & Power Co (interurban ) Purchased 1951 dieselized 1959
Niagara st cath & Toronto ( ex CnoR )purchased 1917 dieselized 1960
Fort William hump yard trolley built 1924 discontinued early 60's
Cornwall Street Railway- bought and dieselized in 1971( freight only after 1953 )
London and Port Stanley bought 1966 alrady dieselized-largly abandoned
Mount Royal Tunnel Line(ex CnoR ) began 1918 operated for STCUM since july 1 1982

Rob

a Post script. You will note that I marked the Toronto Suburban Railway with a *This is becaus eit's not totally abandoned. The TSR was an interurban joining Toronto and Guelph on.The TTC still operates some of it's city trackage. In 1954 our museum's founding fathers bought up the portion of the line that we run on. we had to completely relay the track and catenery but I supose we do occupy the original ROW so that at least is note worthy.