"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. This is my second attempt this AM so don't know what happened the first time but I lost it. Time for a coffee and a diet pastry. Diet pastry or not I see a diet in my future probably as early as January.

PASSENGERFAN AL'S STREAMLINER CORNER #33

HI-LEVEL EL CAPITAN Atchison Topeka & Santa Fe trains 21-22 inaugurated July 15, 1956 daily each direction all coach streamliner Chicago - Los Angeles 2,224 miles 39 hours 45 minutes in either direction.

The Santa Fe inaugurated the finest long distance streamlined coach trains in the world on July 15, 1956 the new HI-LEVEL EL CAPITANS. Here was a train with two levels, on the lower level of the majority of coaches were the car s center entrance doors and baggage racks adjacent to the lower doors and the remaining usable lower level space was a series of restrooms. After ascending a small staircase near the center one was at the coach seating level with 72-reclining leg rest seats. These were the so called Hi-Level to Hi-Level coaches of which initial consist five. The other two Hi-Level Coaches seated only 68 as these were the transition cars having one end that coupled to conventional cars and the other end coupled to the remaining Hi-Level cars.
The first of these cars had the step down feature forward and was coupled immediatly behind the Baggage Crew Dormitory car an older single level car fiited with a Hi-Level adaptor at one end to ease the flow of air up and over the Hi- Level cars. The other step down car was at the rear of the HI-LEVEL EL CAPITAN . Later this car would be coupled to the trailing SUPER CHIEF a standard height train when the two trains were combined in off peak travel seasons. No caoch passengers were allowed in the SUPER CHIEF and no SUPER CHIEF passengers were allowed in the HI-LEVEL EL CAPITAN. This rear stepdown car was for the use of train crews only.

Those Hi-Level cars with step down forward were assigned even numbers 526, 128,139,532, 534, and 536.
Those Hi-Level cars with step down at the rear were assigned odd numbers 527, 529, 531, 533, 535 and 537. Each consist operated with one each of the step down cars.

The other two Hi-Level cars were 80-seat dining cars that featred all seating on the upper level with the lower level occupied by Kitchen , Pantry, Prep areas freezers and refrigerators. The food was brought from the lower level to the upper level by Electric Dumbwaiters where the smart waiters (Those that collected the tips) served the diners.
The remaining car in each consist was the "TOP OF THE CAP" Lounge car with curved glass in the roof with regular windows as well. This car featured a newsstand and 60 seat lounge with bar on the upper level. On the lower level of this car was a large buffet with 28 seat lounge.
Two standard height streamlined cars were operated in each EL CAPITAN consist. The first directly behind the power was a Storage Mail Car. The second was a Baggage 28-Crew Dormitory car with an airfoil attached to the roof for the last twelve feet, this carried the air from the standard height car to the level of the HI-LEVEL car roofs. The new eleven car HI-LEVEL EL CAPITANS had a seating capacity of 496 passengers they replaced conventional fourteen car EL CAPITANS with a passenger capacity of 392.

TYPICAL HI-LEVEL EL CAPITAN CONSIST as inaugurated

47L EMD F7A 1,500 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

47A EMD F7B 1,500 HP Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

47B EMD F7B 1,500 HP Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

47C EMD F7A 1,500 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

3538 Storage Mail Car

3477 Baggage 27 Crew Dormitory Car Hi-Level Adaptor

528 68-Revenue Seat Hi-Level Coach With Forward Step-Down

700 72-Revenue Seat Hi-Level Coach

702 72-Revenue Seat Hi-Level Coach

650 80-Seat Hi-Level Dining Car

576 60-Seat Hi-Level "TOP OF THE CAP" Lounge Car Buffet 28-Seat Lounge on Lower Level

704 72-Revenue Seat Hi-Level Coach

706 72-Revenue Seat Hi-Level Coach

708 72-Revenue Seat Hi-Level Coach

529 68-Revenue Seat Hi-Level Coach with Rear Step Down

TTFN AL

[Anonymous]

Good morning Tom and all! I'll have a light breakfast please, and here's another Michigan Quarter for "Pete" or "PJ" or whatever our quarter recepticle turns out to be called. I saw some great posts last night and this morning, but am in a huge hurry and don't have time to give them the justice they derserve, so please forgive me, but I won't be around until possibly Saturday to give proper acknowlegments.

As for the contest ...well ..... I believe I could gaurantee my winning if I posted the two parts I have ready .... but I'm not going to do that. Congratulations P ... and Merry Christmas!

As you all know, I have family in from all over the map, and will soon be taking the Metra into Chicago for winter frolic and fun. We stay at the Doubletree Inn, as it's located right on the Magnificient Mile, a beautiful hotel, and give us great rates! Great in Chicago is anything less than $180 a night, but they still nail you for using the parking garages. The way to beat the traffic and parking fees around here is to take the train!

Anyhow ... see ya'll when I get back. Happy rails my friends!

[siberianmo]

We open at 6 AM all time zones. (Don’t ask how we do that!) [swg]

THURSDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

A “Thursday way” to continue this countdown to Christmas is to spend a bit of time with us by ordering a <light> breakfast from the menu board – have a cup of freshly brewed coffee and try some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery! [tup]

An observation: We have a few guys who either don’t want to, or can’t figure out how to, maximize the features of the Forums to enable one to call up the most recent Posts BEFORE and AFTER submitting their own. All this does is delay responses and acknowledgments, especially if one Posts daily or infrequently. Bad habits are easy to start and oh so hard to stop. Pity.


Daily Wisdom:

If you have a hill to climb, waitin’ won’t make it smaller.


Info for the Day:

(1) CONTEST:
What date (time optional) will ”Our” Place reach the next plateau – page 200 [?] BONUS question: WHO will be the one to “turn the page” [?]

Participants . . . . . . Date chosen . . . . (Bonus) Who will put us over the top [?]
(in order of participation)
pwolfe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Dec 20th . . . . . . . . . .siberianmo Tom
trolleyboy Rob . . . . . . . . . Dec 18th (12:05 PM) . siberianmo Tom
coalminer3 CM3 . . . . . . . .Dec 18th. . . . . . . . . . siberianmo Tom
barndad Doug . . . . . . . . . Dec 22nd . . . . . . . . . none
nickinwestwales Nick . . . .Dec 27th . . . . . . . . . .trolleyboy Rob
ftwNSengineer P . . . . . . . Dec 23rd . . . . . . . . . .trolleyboy Rob
jlampke John . . . . . . . . . Dec 24th (noon) . . . . . siberianmo Tom

CONTEST CLOSED!

(2)Birthday Bash for CM3 set for Friday, January 6th!

(3) I suspect next week will be rather light insofar as patrons are concerned, so many of my Posts will be ENCORE! pieces. Enjoy!


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) barndad Doug Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 05:23:58 (198) Inclusive Post, etc. & Steam Delights of India, Part IV

(2) passengerfan Al 21 Dec 2005: Today, 07:28:05 (198) Streamliner #32 – Roger Williams (RDCs)

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 08:19:48 (198) Wednesday’s Info & Summary

(4) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 08:22:59 (198) Informative Post, etc.

(5) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 09:13:49 (198) Inclusive Post, etc.

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 09:47:59 (198) Acknowledgments, etc.

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 09:49:02 (198) Birthday Watch List!

(8) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 10:18:41 (198) CNR Steam #12, Part II

(9) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 10:38:23 (198) Inclusive Post, etc.

(10) jdonald Don Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 11:38:37 (198) Inclusive Post, EMD Cabs & Boosters, Part I

(11) ftwNSengineer P Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 11:55:20 (198) etc.

(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 12:28:46 (198) Acknowledgments, etc.

(13) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 13:32:24 (198) NOSTALGIA #48 – Ad - British Rail

(14) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 14:45:01 (198) A Trip to Remember

(15) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 15:01:48 (199) Twice in one day!

(16) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 15:46:43 (199) Inclusive Post, etc.

(17) pwolfe Pete Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 16:16:39 (199) Inclusive Post, etc.

(18) wanswheel Mike Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 18:03:36 (199) A most interesting Post!

(19) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 18:35:33 (199) Inclusive Post, etc.

(20) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 18:42:24 (199) Special reply to: wanswheel

(21) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 19:08:35 (199) Acknowledgments, etc.

(22) ftwNSengineer P Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 19:31:00 (199) etc.

(23) pwolfe Pete Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 21:33:05 (199) Inclusive Post, etc.

(24) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 23:52:58 (199) Inclusive Post, etc.

(25) siberianmo Tom Posted: 22 Dec 2005, 01:00:42 (199) Acknowledgments and Last Call!

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!



From siberianmo’s home: (click to enlarge)

[siberianmo]

Last Call! Leon the Night Man will be closing up - so drink 'em up, order one last one - Boris ring the bell.

Acknowledgments to P - Pete and Rob before closing up.

Oh by the by - Tweeeeeeeeeet, Tweeeeeeeeet! Rules Violation, Rules Violation - Rule #2 - Failure to order a drink and/or food. - And that took all 8 fingers and two thumbs to type. Elvis would be soooooooo proud. [swg] Should throw in #3 - signature occupies more space than the Post! But, what the H .......

Pete Well, THAT is a good name - it will surely be added to the "list." [tup] As always some good "scoop" for the uniformed, which includes moi! [swg]

Rob Appreciate the visit and educational information, as always. [tup]

Speakiing a bit "out of school," methinks Pete is more than a fair match for Nick! Hanging out with these two would surely be a Godsend to the local breweries! [swg] A thought: should they show up for our Rendezvous in Toronto you may want to ensure that wherever you select for our evenin' get togethers stocks an adequate supply of the suds! [tup]

Boy I'll tell ya how easy it is to miss "things" within the Posts these days (daze) - happens all the time as of late. I just ran down the previous 2 pages, and [wow] - we have some material, eh [?]

Glad you and Pete enjoyed that article on the Remembrance Day Train, if you or anyone else would llke to send an Email to the author - let me know and I'll ship you his address.

Okay - that's IT for me.

See y'all at 6 AM!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon an AK for me please.

Tom Thanks for printing that VIA article, a great piece fer sure[tup] Also I know that you were just pulling my leg,or was that Cindy [:O] anyhow i know what you mean,if it helps you to know our store is almost empty ( seriously ) so looks like the holiday wad has been blown yet again this year.

Apology acepted on almost forgetting my pigs feet jar post. Not hard to mis in all the good background info


Nice continuing saga on the brit rail pre-history as well!


Don I would happily let you help me spend the OT but unfortunatly Heather's car has had the popensity to ooze oil from all it's various gaskets and seals of late $650+ at the moment,if we didn't need the second car it would be pushed of the closest cliff.[:!(]

The Donald Lewis books are still in print for the most part. You will need to hit a hobby shop though. They cover Candian roads and in CN and CP's case their american holdings. Black and white paint diagrams of each class and subclass of diesels are listed ,along with B/W and Colour photo's. He also list times in service num bering renumbering etc etc. Any specific queries let me know. I do not have his Volume two book which covers TH&B BC/PGE or the Quebec roads. VIA locos F's FA's are in their respective CN or CP books though he did print a book that was speacifically VIA as well.

I figured that you would know as well as anyone some of the area's those passenger trains traversed. Your own backyard as it were.

Don great info on the FT's as well. A loco that other than seeing pictures of, that I knew little to nothing about. [tup]


Mike Your welcome. The trolley vs streetcar debate has tended to rage ( friendly ) for years. Funny how something that's, so insignificant as a title can create such a vast gulf of confusion ( Not unlike Candian politics )

Your thoughts on why double ended electrics were built the way they were and on radials is right on the money. Electrics espeacially interurbans or radials tended to be linear affairs ( less land less overhead ) most of the cars could be mu'ed or if travelling alone then the double ending was strictly for ease and speed of turn around. Time was money to the electrics why waste it turning your rolling stock when you could head back in the other direction with a full load of paying customers. Likewise even the in city lines in some cases ran double ended cars. Again in smaller cities less was better.Why buy the extra land and take on the extra maintenance of in street loops if you could run back and forth. Smaller cities opted for double enders on their streetcars quite often because the traffic level ( passengers ) would be less. In large cities ie toronto the streetcar company has loops to turn the cars for a quick constantly flowing traffic pattern. Rush hours need speed of runs to carry the extra people , also there is more car traffic so the motorman getting out to change ends ie raise one pole and lower the other would not be safe on a street in Toronto, so the turnig loop allows for single ended cars to be run, ther by making the run faster and safer for the crews.

Most electric street railways that operated locomotives for industrial switching ytended to purchase loco's that were double ended as well. ( I can't think of any steeple cabs or boxcabs that were single ended ) For the most part electric switching of industries is done the same as conventional ( deisel or steam )back and forth and run around your train etc. Having two sets of controls made the switching likley easier for the engineer in an electric locomotive, you figue since he simply changes ends he's alwys facing the way he's going no need to look backwards over his shoulder when heading back the other way like he would have had to do on early GP's.(Most railways added a second set of controls to their diesel road switchers so now this is a moot point.) Also most steeple cabs and box motors were too heavy to turn on loops as well. They can't handle the tight curvature do to weight and their more traditional trucks. Also it's hard to lopp 20-50 freight cars and a caboose behind you at any rate.

Indeed your thoughts on the term radial is right on as well. For example the initial idea of sir Adam Beck's dream to have several hundred inter conected interurbans in ontario started on the premise that they would radiate out from toronto to all the surrounding population cemtres, hence the term Radial was born. Indeed the web of lines built between 1904-1917 did tend to look very spoke like.woth Toronto and the Niagara peninsula more or less in the middle.


Pete Have a good trip[ be safe and have a blast.Be carefull if you do meet up with Nick though, your liver may not be the same afterward. LOL

P I use the two finger peck method works for me ( mostly )

Well gents have a good evening.

Rob

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams please.

MIKE thanks for the links great [tup] They took a fair while to load but well worth the wait.

TED Thanks for the info on the over-head and third rail info. It is only fairly recently that some of the Electric Mulitple Units( E.M.U.) in England have been able to work on the two systems. With the Southern Region 3rd rail units keeping to their own area and the inter-regional trains being diesel worked. The re opening of Snow Hill tunnel under part of London where the 25kv overhead met the third rail was the reason the dual-system class 319 E.M.Us were introduced. For a few years these units worked a Rugby to Brighton service where, perhaps the Classic trains comes in as in the early 1900s there was a service that ran from the North West of England to Brighton which had an engine change at Rugby, the soutern part of the journey was hauled by a London Brighton & South Coast tank loco. this service today only runs as far north as Watford Junction( about 18 miles from London) but is very usuful especially going to Gatwick Airport as it saves the change of stations and the bother or crossing London.

TOM Thanks for the kind words [tup].
I thought "trotter coffer" was one of my better efforts. A trotter is what we call pig's feet in England( I sould have tested the word on the wife first) Oh Well[%-)][oops]. PETE

[red p]

Hey Tom, just what is the "siberianmo's guide to using the Word Processor " Is that the 2 finger chicken peck method?

And just what is an Elvis hat anyway?
P

[siberianmo]

G'day All!

Just a couple of words for CM3 - Ted - Pete

Twice in one day [?] Nice, but surely "different" for you, CM3. See my note on a specific timeframe for your Bash! [?]

Ted I think you need a copy of siberianmo's guide to using the Word Processor to prepare Posts destined for the Forums! [swg]

Good suggestions for the Pickled Pigs Feet Jar - yet another "list" will be compiled to which

QUOTE: CM3's Pig in a Poke, or CM3's Ham Hock

will be added.Thanx! [tup]

I have been unable to find any pix of that 33-car VIA Rail train. Don't understand why - but for some reason, just haven't been able to. Still waiting for my "contact" at VIA Rail to "come through." [yeah] A view from the Park Car dome would have been "something else" with 32 cars ahead. [tup][tup][tup]

Pete Your Email has been received and responded to.

QUOTE: Trotter Coffer

[?][?] I get the "coffer" part, but lost on the "Trotter." Appreciate your participation!

We are going to surely miss having you 'round here, Pete but know that your return to England is long overdue and something you and your bride have been looking forward to. Just hope we'll get to communicate once you get home - someone surely will have an internet connection. Hey, I know who - Nick! [swg]

Leon the Night Man has the bar at 9 PM! Check out the Elves' hats that he and Boris are wearing. [swg]

Later (maybe)!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

Special for wanswheel Mike

You, Sir, have impuned my motives. In times gone by, perhaps a duel would have been called. Now let's take a look at the situation and charges:

What possible gain for moi with regard to who "wins" the Contest [?]

QUOTE: the necessity of gratuitous seasonal picture

If this is in reference to my LGB trains pix at the bottom of today's Summary how in the world does that factor in [?] Overruled!

QUOTE: another random occurance of birthday watch

Au contraire - for anyone who has been 'round this place from the get-go, the practice has always been to rePost the Birthday Watch List! every time a change impacts it. Today, CM3 announced the date for his Bash! Overruled!

QUOTE: unlikely sudden nostalgia for British Railways

In the last Index printed, you will note that Great Britain RR info appears on pages 130, 135, 137, 146, 161 and 186. Hardly "sudden." Overruled!

QUOTE: month-old news Remembrance Day in Canada again,

Today, Dec 21st, is the date that I received permission to reprint the article from the author. Overruled!

Finally: You have not participted in the Contest therefore, you have no standing with reference to bringing forth charges! Overruled!

Nice try, but no cigar. [tdn]

Now to your URLs - great supplements!

My NOSTALGIA pieces, also in the Index have the narratives for each one you list, sans "football." Nicely done. I refrain from copying and Posting the pix in respect to any possible copyright infringement.

Better watch that Egg Nog - it's mind altering fer sure, fer sure! [swg]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[Anonymous]

Good evening folks. Tom, let me try another C.R. and soda on for size. Recovered form the faux pas earlier, so now I can restore "order" out of former "chaos." The letter regarding Canada's Veteran's Train event surely reflects the serious nature of a Nation's grateful people and caring sponsors such as Via.[tup] I wish I could have seen the 33 car, 3 unit "lash up" from a Park Dome Car.[^] The intentions alone of this grand patriotic gesture gives me "goose flesh."

Rob, your explanation of the "streetcar vs trolley" and "interurban vs radial," I think is "exactamundo."[tup] The only difference , in my opinion, is between the car's intended usage: streetcar/trolley- -city; interurban/radial- -between cities. Hey Tom, will you be adding "pick-up" shoes to any of your R.D.C.s?[(-D] Just kiddin'! Glad to hear that Andy is still "croonin' up a storm." The old Steve Allen's Tonight show (Andy's "big break") was the definitive "talk show" of lthe ast century, in my opinion. Looks like any sort of train would be welcomed in "the City" 'bout now. Seems the Transportation Union has accomplished what Terrorists could not? Pete, the either "over head" or "third rail" is fairly common in "all electric," operations. Almost all commuter trains into Chicago had both options (e.g. North and South Shore Lines). However, diesel with 'third rail/overhead" is not common. Some cities (e.g. Washington D.C.) prohibited over head (catenary) in city limits. Most, however, would be fed via overhead wire. I have an excellent book on "modeling" overhead operations and if anyone might have questions on either modeling or protoype installations, please e-mail me. Well, its getting late and I've been at this all day long (it seems). Hope to see you tomorrow sometime. Thanks for the e-mails and Boris that's your cue. Put that cue stick down and ring the bell TWANG-A-LING. Gadfrey, he hit the bell with the cue stick.[alien] Happy rails all.

[wanswheel]

ABCDEFGHIJK MNOPQRSTUVWXYZ to all, and put the whistle down down Tom, I'm ordering something this time, okay. Like a shot of Old Forester Scotch with an eggnog chaser. If you serve it "Kodiak" I'll need about about 2 quarts of nog and a room at the re-hab.

I see someone has miscalculated in posting half a million words on the Indian Railway. Obviously Tom is determined to pu***his thing to Page 200 by midnight. How else to explain the necessity of gratuitous seasonal picture, another random occurance of birthday watch, unlikely sudden nostalgia for British Railways, month-old news Remembrance Day in Canada again, etc., all carefully calibrated to insure drawing a line through Barndad Doug's prediction of Dec.22.

My theory of why an electric locomotive has 2 cabs is that the sure market for electric is in the relatively short routes of frequent runs and anchored by a big city. Such as commuter or "shuttle" service. It would seem economical and efficient, and perhaps conserve real estate, to avoid turning the engine around. Instead, with just one or two quick switching maneuvers it can be positioned in front of a train going the other direction, no? What about freight, though, I don't know much electric comes into the freight picture.

Rob thanks for explaining the non-difference between trolley and streetcar. I have a theory also about the term "radial." Derived from "radius," of a circle or a wheel, with the city or downtown as the hub and the lines to the hinterlands as the spokes.

And here's a guess as to where is Russell: still licking his wounds from the Chiefs loss to the Giants.

http://capecodrails.railfan.net/budd/rdc1.jpg NH
http://capecodrails.railfan.net/budd/rdc2.jpg WP
http://capecodrails.railfan.net/budd/rdc3.jpg B&M
http://capecodrails.railfan.net/budd/rdc4.jpg CP

http://capecodrails.railfan.net/budd/budd3.jpg SFChief
http://capecodrails.railfan.net/budd/budd4.jpg NP
http://capecodrails.railfan.net/budd/budd5.jpg Football
http://capecodrails.railfan.net/budd/budd6.jpg Southerner
http://capecodrails.railfan.net/budd/budd7.jpg Bluebird

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of the usual please.

TOM Many thanks for sharing the Veterans train with us. It seems VIA did a grand job. I hope the Veterans got the good time on the train that they deserved. [bow] to VIA Rail.

ROB Thanks for the CNR Classic steam #11. Its sad to see steam replaced but at least the steam locos numbers used for the last time were recorded for posterity.
Its good to know that 2860 may steam next year a great loco[tup].

AL & CM3 Good info on the Roger Williams. Were there many types of diesel locos that were able to take power from the overhead or third-rail as well.There was two classes of Electro-Diesel on the Southern Region of British Railways, which has 750 volt third rail. These were introduced in the mid 1960s. I have not heard of any RDCs of this type in the U.K.

CM3 Thanks for the gen on Totes.The loading guage in the U.K.is too small to allow complete trailers to travel on the cars, so the term was unfamilier to me. Good piece on the moose.

DOUG More good posts on Indian Railways. They were some good looking locos. The crews certainly took pride in their "own" loco.

TED Just saw your post. Glad the check-up was O.K. There still is the Brit- rail pass for travel on B.R. They are offering a 20% reduction for January and February but unfortunately they can't offer the steam traction that was about in 1948[:(]

Tom Glad you enjoyed the show you cannot beat a live performance. The train round the tree looks great [tup] Thanks for the B.R. Nostalgia although I dont think the railways had recovered from the war
in 1948. There would be a lot of speed restrictions and slow travel times owing to the backlog of track maintainance.But you have to admire their attempt to attract tourists. I would still like to go back to that time if I could.

How about the Trotter Coffer name for the jar. (I know, keep taking the pills) [:)] PETE.

[Anonymous]

Okay, good afternoon gentlemen. Tom, make it a double C. R. and a water back, please. If it weren't bad enough that in only one afternoon I'm dozens of post behind but I blunderd my Post off after 2 hours of "slaving over a hot keyboard." "There ain't no fixin' stupid!" For now, I'll just say thanks for the [tup] wishes at the V.A.! Turns out all my moving parts are okay. There is nothing wrong 'cept the 3-1/2 hour long wait in reception.[V] I have read all the posts since my last one and will, as usual, bring things up-to-date from most recent to the earliest topics. Earlydiesels Dan, I haven't forgotted you. I didn't want to put you "through the wringer" with sending snail mail during X-mas rush. I'll send vital stats when this annual lunacy abates after the 26th, okay? I want to thank Pete and Tom once again for the pix of Union Station. I had no idea what the ceilng's true colors were until after the rennovation. It's dag gone purdy, ain't it?[^]

My instincts, right now, is to "blow the whole thing off," but that would only exascerbate the problem, wouldn't it?[tdn] Okay, here goes. Kudoos for CM3, Barndad Doug, Rob, Al, Tom, Don, P Dave, Pete, Dan and anyone I missed for such prodigious efforts.[tup][tup][tup] So its the pigs feet jar is it? Hmmm, how about CM3's Pig in a Poke, or CM3's Ham Hock? "Good man Gungha Din," and a great series Mr. Doug. In the earliest days of the British East India Trade Co., there were special "Sultan's Cars" that were veritable Taj Mahals on wheels. One can see the huge disparity between classes from the fine pix included in this series. Dave and CM3 certainly cleared up a lot of doubts on the "E" and "F" EMD locos and many thanks for this data.[tup] Nostalgia, Streamline Corner, CN Steam Trains, Trolley Juice all go together to make a really diverse thread but maintaining continuity.[^] CM3, I was wondering if the "Road Railer" trailers were the same as any Fruehoff or like American manufactured hiway trailers? I remeber the G.M.C. "Train of the Future" with its Grayhound bus coaches which disintegrated at sustained high rail speeds.[:O] Hey Tom and Doug, your G gauge trains look great under the 2 trees respectively. Ah, British Railways, now wouldn't I give just about anything for a Everywhere Pass and a couple of months to "do England, Scotland and Wales?" Oh yes, and a barrel of $100 dollar bills, I might add.

There are too many distractions right now for a proper post. So, I'll break now and return anon. Right Boris, do your thing.[tup] ....Not that thing, Cretin![:(!] See Yas soon.

[coalminer3]

Good Afternoon Barkeep and All - coffee, please and a round for the house - more $ for the jukebox as well.

Just a quick stop as I'm on my way back to the frozen outside. Excellent article on the Trip to Remember." We had (still have) several family friends who served on corvettes during the Battle of the Atlantic as well as some of my mom's people who were in British 8th Army in North Africa.

Thanks for f unit material, British Rail posting, and all other contribuitions for the day.

I'm outta here. Remember, P, it's always five o'clock somewhere!

work safe

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!

Here’s something a bit different that I found in my latest TransportAction newsletter from Transport2000Canada, Vol 27, No. 6, Dec 05, 2005. The article has been retyped with permission from the author, which I profoundly express my appreciation. Hope all of you enjoy it.






. . . . . . . . . . . A Trip to Remember . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . (Marcus Garnet, President, T2000 Atlantic) . . . . . . . . . . .

My wife, Christine, and I had been looking forward to riding VIA Rail’s Remembrance Day Train ever since we had booked our trip from Halifax to Montreal. This train was, in fact, a special expanded version of VIA’s regular Ocean run, and left Halifax on November 9th, two days before Remembrance Day. The general public were permitted to ride in addition to veterans, who were especially encouraged to be part of this historic trip. They would transfer in Montreal to Train 33 to continue their journey to Ottawa the following morning.

The idea for the commemorative trip during the Year of the Veteran had arisen many months previously, with a suggestion made at the Halifax ticket office and the dedicated initiative of Ronald Jackson, one of the VIA agents there. Many other VIA staff members and external organizations worked together to make the trip a success.

When we arrived at the Halifax station we were greeted by a red carpet. An on-veterans we felt unworthy to tread on it, but this was only the beginning. Many thoughtful touches gave a period feel, including a shoe-shiner offering his services for 25 cents, who later rode on the train itself. The booking hall abounded with uniformed military people and displays of photos and war memorabilia.

We were immediately reminded of the personal cost which so many have paid to protect freedom and democracy in Canada and other nations, including my homeland – the United Kingdom. My parents had often told me of the hardships of growing up in England during World War II. More recently, and over in Canada, Christine’s late father was well known and loved by the patients whom he had faithfully visited for many years at the Camp Hill Veteran’s Memorial Hospital.

After checking our luggage we took turns to look at the displays, before a staff member exhorted us to get on board. We walked down another red carpet, awed by the ranks of military personnel standing at attention on either side. We gazed along the platform between two endless rows of gleaming stainless steel railcars, each door guarded by a uniformed military person as well as the helpful VIA Rail staff. We heard that the 33-car train (including three engines, two domes, three diners, three coaches and a baggage car) would be the longest to operate on this route since World War II, and would carry approximately 420 passenger once those from Moncton had embarked. Because of its length, the train was parked at the station in two halves and later coupled together.

After moving into our double bedroom we hastened to the dome in the Park Car, and watched the enormous train pull out of Halifax, recalling the troop trains that connected with ships to and from Europe so many years ago. Along the historic railway cut, people stood on the many bridges looking down at our train and waved to us. The Halifax Herald printed a special page with the words “Thank You” accompanied by a bright red poppy, and many onlookers held these up as signs while our train passed. There were many media reporters on board with their TV cameras, and some remained on the train for the entire trip. Seated up in the dome, we had a panoramic view and felt humbled by the privilege of participating in such a special occasion. Soon we could see the whole train stretched out alongside the Bedford Basin, reminding us of the wartime convoys which had been assembled there, and which many veterans had helped to protect.

Before boarding we had been given a paper assigning us to one of the three diners on the train, which for the occasion were termed “Mess Halls.” There were tow sittings for lunch and three for supper, while breakfast was also available the following morning. Walking down the endless corridors to “Mess Hall 2,” it was easy to see that more than half the passengers were veterans. Signs outside their bedrooms indicated the name and military position, and in our diner there were plenty of uniforms and colourful badges. At one of the meals we made friends with an older couple who told us of family members who had lost their lives while fighting overseas in World War II. It was a reminder than many who fought never returned, and that this train was also a tribute to them.

After our first meal on board, we waited for our bill, but it never came. We were told that all meals were complimentary, sponsored by Atlantic Superstore and VIA Rail. The food was very enjoyable, served by an attentive and efficient staff. Throughout the journey, we appreciated the enthusiastic attitude and helpfulness of VIA employees. This was all the more impressive in view of the large numbers who needed to be accommodated, some of whom had special needs. It seemed that every detail had been anticipated, including the provision of a volunteer paramedic who assisted several passengers enroute.

Our train was enthusiastically welcomed at the many Maritime communities we passed through. Some people held up “Thank You” signs in their own yards. Others were parked near grade crossings to anticipate our arrival. One or two stood alone and saluted the train as it passed. At Truro, crowds of children lined their schoolyard fence and waved. Crossing the Tantramar marshes, we were greed by two deer romping in a nearby field with the train curving around almost as a backdrop – a magnificent sight! At each station, a home-grown welcome awaited us, a band, a choir, a troupe of cadets standing at attention. At Moncton, we took a brief walk outside and almost got lost in the crowd following the pipe band marching up the platform.

There were poignant greetings at the tiny communities served by flagstops, where people had gone far out of their way to prepare for the train’s arrival. We especially remember the stop at Jacquet River late in the northern New Brunswick evening, where a flatbed truck had been parked as a float, complete with a strobe light mounted on a stepladder. People used what they had to show their appreciation. The last community in New Brunswick, Tidewater, does not even have a flagstop, but by prior arrangement our train slowed down so we could see the people waving, the coloured lights and the lone fire truck with its strobes flashing a salute. These people had stayed up late and waited long for our delayed arrival. Before climbing into our bunks we rumbled across the bridge into Quebec, where a small group waved to our train at the picturesque Matapedia station.

By morning our train had made up much of our former delay. After St. Lambert, Paul Cote, VIA Rail’s CEO, formally welcomed the veterans over the intercom. Se would have pulled into Montreal only an hour late, but the train had to back into Central Station to split the train into two halves. Across the platform, the veterans were greeted with flags, uniformed guards and TV cameras while boarding the connecting train for the final leg of this historic trip to Ottawa, where countless others would join them to remember the sacrifice made by those who gave their lives for us.

Enjoy!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #48

For your BRITISH ISLES Holiday

USE THE COMPLETE SERVICES OF BRITISH RAILWAYS

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the British Railways from a 1949 advertisement in my personal collection.

. . . . . Our trains mean pleasant, easy day or night service to every corner of Britain.

Railway-operated channel steamer services to Ireland and the Continent assure you
comfortable accommodations and convenient connections.

. . . . . 45 hotels throughout Britain associated with British Railways invite you to pause
. . . . . on your tour or business trip, for relaxation, sports and enjoyment of their
. . . . . traditional hospitality.

STAY LONGER * SEE MORE! 25% REDUCTION IN TOUR FARES

By planning ahead the many places throughout Britain you wi***o visit, you can effect a considerable saving by the individual tour fares granted by British Railways to visitors from overseas.

. . . . . Write for YOUR free copies . . . . .

”WHAT, NO ICE?” – written especially for Americans planning to visit us; as well as the full-color map folder, ”THE BRITISH ISLES” both free upon request to Dept. 25 at any of the offices shown below.

For tickets, reservations and authoritative travel information on the British Isles

CONSULT YOUR LOCAL TRAVEL AGENT or any British Railways office:

. . . . . NEW YORK 20, N. Y., 9 ROCKEFELLER Pl.
. . . . . CHICAGO 3, ILL, 39 So. Lasalle St.
. . . . . LOS ANGELES 14, CAL., 510 W. 6th St.
. . . . . TORONTO, ONT., 69 Yonge Street

. . . . . . . . . . BRITISH RAILWAYS . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!

Some mid to late morning activity! Nice to have some company. [swg]

Hey Rob Profound apologies, Sir! I totally disregarded your suggestion for the name of the Pickled Pigs Feet Jar holding the quarters for Herrr Wurltizer! Great suggestion - Coal Scuttle - like that alot. [tup]

So here's what we have thus far:

Rob - Coal Scuttle
Doug - Pete or PJ

C'mon guys, this isn't that difficult ... [swg]

Rob Nice Part II for your CNR Steam Passenger trains of SW Ontario series! [tup][tup] And no, Juneau would hardly fit into or onto that LGB train! [swg] He's pretty good just watching it - only 2nd Christmas we've had with him and he's an agressive dog - but moreso in play with us as opposed to "things" in the house. [yeah] The train is nice to watch 'round the tree. Isn't that what one should have at this time of year [?] I think so! [tup]

Also, Sir Rob please don't take offense at my comments - as you know - if I'm thinking it, I'll say it! <grin> We all have to make a living and I don't knock what you do so much as what those who own the retail stores do to the season! There IS a difference. But then again, as with my efforts in law enforcement - it's all a matter of DEMAND. We could curtail the illicit drug trade simply by knocking off the DEMAND. Same for Christmas frenzied shopping. The stores are only providing what we the consumers apparently DEMAND. And the beat goes on .... [tdn]

Don [yeah] Andy is only 10 1/2 years older than I - he turned 78 on Dec 3rd. I had second thoughts about getting the tix because I really hate to haved my "images" destroyed, if you follow my thoughts. Saw him in the same theatre about 25 years ago and he was still at the top of his game. Not that last night's performance was less than wonderful, just definite signs of that thing called - CHANGE. It was a grand time for the 4,500 packed into the theatre.

Enjoyed your Part I on those EMDs! Good job - now let's get some URLs put together to compliment your work. [tup][tup]

Ahhhh, the return of P - no doubt "lurking" to pick up the winner's prize for our Contest! You're right in there - we'll see. [swg]

Our glasses have holes in them only at the top - I'd say you've developed that mid-week thirst brought about by a thing called WORK. [swg]

Don't know how many pages you've browsed through since your return - but you'll find that a few of our guys are gone for the rest of the week and into the next, Nick is one of 'em.

Here's your brew ... Enjoy!


Isn't it past due time to be hearing from a couple of other guys [?] C'mon earlydiesels Dan -and- jlampke John can't be a regular 'round here without entering the joint! [swg]


Later guys.....

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[red p]

hi Tom,
How about a beer,this is the first break Ive had all week. Had some broken rail out there last night, that slowed things down pretty good for a while.

west coast
I enjoyed your piece about the F-units. They have always been my favorite along with E-units

Nick
a while back ago you made a comment about consecutive engine numbers. Well the other day I had 7001,7005,and 7010. How about that.

Hey this glass has a hole in it
Tom
another beer over here.
P

[jdonald]

Mornin Tom & all present; Just a very light breakfast-have a Christmas dinner this aft and am already fighting the Yule Battle of the Waistling(waste-line).Glad to hear the Andy Williams show was up to expectations. Caught a little of his Christmas Special TV show but that was the Andy of the 70's & 80's. Good thing we haven't aged like that[:D]
Its getting harder to acknowledge all the excellent posts of late. By the time I finish looking at them, have forgotten half of what I wanted to acknowledge. I do read all the posts though and learn from them all[tup]even if don't acknowledge them all.

AlWho woulda thunk a 6 car RDC set up like that and with 3rd rail capabilities as well. We surely do learn something new everyday and hope it continues.

Doug Your piece on Indian Steam and Indian Railways in general surely is an eye opener for this Wester Hemisphere dweller. The sights, sounds and smells[:0]must be overwhelming. A very informative article.

Rob If you need some help spending that next paycheque with all the O/T let me know!! Like to hear more about the Donald Lewis Rail Canada book(s). Enjoyed CNR Steam #11. Lots of familiar train names & operations there.

West Coast Dave Thanks for the excellent info on the F units and response to the question of 1cab versus 2(maybe a little more on that later)

At the risk of overloading the thread with more F-unit info here is a 2 or 3 part series taken from "Diesels Locomotives: The First 50 Years" by Louis A. Marre and published by Kalmbach Books

EMD CABS AND BOOSTERS: 1350 HP, B-B (FT's)

Model FTA 1350 HP produced 11/39-11/45 U.S. 555 Canada 0 Mexico 0
Model FTB 1350 HP produced 11/39-11/45 U.S. 541 Canada 0 Mexico 0

Features: Bulldog nose and cab body, with a noticeable overhang beyond the rear truck on B Units. As built A units have side panels with four closely spaced portholes; B units have the same. A fifth porthole on the right side forward of the group of bour indicates hostler control, applied only to B units delivered with couplers at each end instead of drawbar connections to an A unit. Units with dynamic brakes have a large square structure flanking the stacks to house the resistors. Units without dynamic brakes lack that structure, exposing the four in-line exhaust stacks to view.
Varations: Most units were delivered as A-B sets connected by drawbars; a few were delivered as A-B-A sets with short booster units lacking the long overhang at the rear.Some units were built with couplers, and others were later fitted withthem, so in later years single FT units could be seen mixed with other diesels. Trips through the shops for repairs sometimes resulted in side panels without portholes,different number boards and classification lights, and sometimes even F7-style stainless-steel grilles over the vents.
Nomenclature: The short booster unit used in three-unit A-B-A sets was sometimes referred to as FTSB. Electromotive initially referred to FT units, both A and B, that were built with couplers and draft gears at both ends as model FS (S perhaps for separable). In addition to the couplers there was a difference in the underframes. A 1947 EMD publication noted that Santa Fe, Rio Grande, Missouri Pacific and Southern were the only roads with FS type locomotives. The presence of a pair of vertical grab irons and step was sure indication the units were connected by drawbars--they couldn't be separated with recourse to major tools. The FS designation was soon either dropped or forgotten.

End part 1 [zzz]

Bye for now-keep it on the rails

Don

[trolleyboy]

Hey Tom, thought that I would have caught you before you headed back out but just missed yah. BTW I did put forward a name for the jar guess you missed it.[sigh] Just for that I added a couple loonies to the mix.[swg] I to detest the commersilization but ubfortunatly that's where my bread is buttered,could be worse I suppose. Sounds like a fine set of conserts, nice to see you expanding your horizons [:^]

Glad that you liked the CNR bit, Pt two awaits [;-)]. speacial note of thanks to Ian wilson from whom the info was gleened.

Doug forgot to mention earlier but have a blas t on your pre Christmas train trip,very nice to get home for the holiday's that way fer sure [tup]

Also for all we classic steam nuts here. No Boris [alien] He just used the new starbucks coffee steamer to warm up the bar nuts. Any way if you pop over to my museum thread you will see some info on the BC boys that are restoring CPR Royal Hudson 2860,they are planning on having her up and running in 2006,winderfull news to be sure.

Have a good afternoon everyone.

Rob

[trolleyboy]

Hello again Tom another top up of the tea,grab yourself one as well since we have the joint to ourselves at the moment.I figured that I would take Ted's early slot today in his absence,besides I get more danishes this way. [:D]

So the continuation of yesterday's CNR steam info.


CNR Classic Steam # 12 Train Profiles in SW Ontario Pt 2

Number 18/118

Windsor-Toronto. last regular steam was 6234 apr 1957, but steam was substituted several times after on 9 & 18. Last steam was 6239 feb 17/1959. Buffet parlour car Detroit-Toronto. Another buffet car London-Toronto ( Fri's ). sets off empty express cars at Brantford & Hamilton for number 9. Lifts loaded express car at Brantford. Carries London-Montreal express car. Windsor head end crews London-Windsor,London head end crew London-Toronto,Windsor tail end crews.


Number 20

Maple Leaf Chicago-Montreal. Last steam was 6226 mar 3/1957. Cafe-parlour car Pt Huron-Toronto, buffet-parlour car Chicago-Toronto,compartment parlour car Pt Huron-Toronto,sleeping car Chicago-Montreal,transfered to number 16 at Toronto. Toronto head end crews Toronto-London, London head end crews London-Sarnia.


Number 29

Originates in Owen Sound as number 172,becomes 169 at Palmerston,then number 29 at Stratford.Last steam was 5548 on apr 29/1959. Normally a baggage car,RPO,one or two coaches, and sleeper ( Montreal-London,off no 17 at Toronto ex sat ) out of Stratford. Stratford & London head end crews, Palmerston tail end crews.


Number 39

Toronto-London express train via Stratford. Steam used regulary until mar 31/1959.Hudson 5703 substituted for diesels on apr 12th, and Northern 6214 on apr 20th.Normally one coach out of Toronto.Diner deadheaded to London,returning on no 14. Baggage car mail service until RPO initiated in sept/1956. Toronto and London head end crews Toronto tail end crews.

Number 40

London-Toronto via Stratford. Last steam was 6233 on mar 26/59.Carries mail storage car London to Toronto. Baggage car mail service until RPO initiated sept 30/1956.Sleeping car London-Montreal (ex sat) , transfered to number 16 at Toronto.Toronto and London head end crews,Toronto tail end crews.


Number 75

Forest City Toronto-London. Fast train,steam used steadily until 6230 on mar 26/1959. At London engine and mail car off 83 are coupled to consist of 75,and this train carries on to Windsor as no 83. Cafe-parlour cars Toronto-Windsor,compartment parlour car Toronto-Detroit. London crews.

Number 77

Toronto-London. Steam used steadily until 5700 on mar 20 /1959. Steam was normmal power until april 18th. Carries mail storage car ( baggage ) off number 19 at Toronto. Normally one coach out of Toronto, in addition to express cars. Toronto& London head end crews.


Number 80

London-Toronto. Diesels appear occationally beginning mar 20 / 1959. Steam normal power until april 18th. Diesel used on apr 20 steam again (6214 ) for the last time on the 21st. Lots of head end traffic, Windsor-Hamilton express car added at london. Toronto and London head end crews,Toronto tailend crews.

Number 82

Businessman's Speacial London-Toronto. Diesels first appeared on mar 28/1959. Steam ( 5701 ) used on mar 3st and apr 1st, then train was diesilized for good.Baggage car and coaches London-Toronto. London crews.

Number 83/183

Toronto-Windsor. Steam used regularly until 6230, mar 20/1959. Lots of head end traffic. Normally two London coaches & one Niagara Falls coach out of Toronto. Train is split at Hamilton, with a number of cars forming the consist of of train 86/186 for Niagara Falls ( including an RPO ). Often lifts express car and reefer loads at Hamilton,set off at London for number 5. Train dies at london,engine and RPO are coupled onto coach(es) and two parlour cars from number 75 for continuation to Windsor as 83. London head end crews.


Number 105

Detroit section of LaSalle , London-Windsor. Diesel;s appeared apr 4/1959, steam otherwise used until 5700 on apr 13/1959. Train 5 is split at London with,number 5 going through to Pt Huron and number 105 oroginating as Windsor section. Coach and compartment parlour car Toronto-Detroit. London head end crews Windsor tail end crews.

Enjoy Rob

[siberianmo]

All of our regulars know about the Birthday Watch List .... however, it needs to be posted repeatedly, just as a reminder regarding who is coming up next for the Birthday Bash ......

2005 BIRTHDAY WATCH LIST (rev. Dec 21st):

February 2nd (Kevin – 49)
March 5th (Nick – 45)
April 18 (Al - 63)
May 18th (Tom - 67)
May 27th (Dave - 46)
June 24th (Dan - 43)
July 15th (*** – 65)
July 25th (Chris - 51)
July 30th (Russell – 34)
August 16th (Ted - 67)
September 8th (Rob - 34)
December 29th (CM3) – 59 Next up! Friday, January 6th!!

Not on the list [?] Send me an Email with your birth date (month-day-year).
Corrections too!

Names of those in The Legion of the Lost will be dropped in 2006.

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!



NOTE for all: Check the SUMMARIES

[siberianmo]

Mornin’ Gents!

Another good day here at ”Our” Place with much to read along with the ongoing banter at the bar! Thanx to all who keep this place movin’ forward. [tup][tu][tup] Good to see the return, albeit – temporary – return of West Coast S Dave! Now all we need to see is Trainnut484 Russell to make our gathering a bit more complete.

We spent a delightful evening at St. Louis’ Fox Theatre attending the Andy Williams Christmas Show. A special treat indeed and the packed house seemed to enjoy it as much as we. He’s a tad older, a bit frail in appearance, and perhaps cannot hit all of those notes any longer, but he’s an entertainer’s entertainer for sure. It was almost as if his old TV show had resurrected itself on the massive stage before us. Nice way to get into the mood and spirit of it all. [tup] Next up, The Trans Siberian Orchestra on Friday nite …….

I failed to make mention of a concert we attended Sunday evening at a Church we like to attend from time to time. They have a very accomplished Bell Choir who put on about a half hour pre-concert of Christmas music. The concert itself featured the music of John Rutter, a Londoner who is well known throughout the Christian world of music for his accomplishments. Accompanied by a Choir of approximately 160 voices, we were treated to an outstanding and warm entry to this wondrous week. [tup]

To repeat: As Christmas draws ever closer, I expect we’ll see fewer ‘n fewer Posts. The bar ‘n grill will remain open throughout this Christmas and holiday season, but take note of the following:

Christmas Eve – CLOSE at 6 PM (all time zones!)

Christmas Day (Sunday) – CLOSED – even the mail slots will be “blocked.”

New Year’s Day (Sunday) – CLOSED – mail slots “open,” but NO PIX!


To the acknowledgments:

pwolfe Pete
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 17:59:21

Sorry I missed you last evening – snuck that one right in dintja [?] [swg]

I always enjoy your responses in that it shows that you digest what others have to say. Yours, Sir, is a fine example of what we should all strive to do when engaged in conversation at this bar – try a dash of “inclusiveness!” [tup]

We spent some time in KCity before, during and after the work done on Union Station. Back in the days when it was essentially “boarded up,” a couple of KCity police officer friends of mine took me inside for a ‘tour’ perhaps not experienced by very many. To recall those ghostly concourses, et al, brings back some other thoughts as well. Back to my one and only arrival at the station in 1953, en route California from NYC. Spent a good portion of the day in KCity, before heading back to the station for the resumption of the journey. Quite the station at yet another railroad cross roads.

It was a long negotiation getting Amtrak back into the station and when they finally agreed to all of the terms – not to mention government demands for this ‘n that – the station somehow regained just a bit of the luster it once had insofar as being a “real” train station is concerned.

The layouts are not permanent – they move ‘em in and out – some I understand are stored within the bowels of the station, others move on to different locations. But, I’ve been there many times when the main hall was simply – well, the main hall. Nonetheless, it is a marvelous edifice and one that those who appreciate the glory days of passenger railroading surely should see.

barndad Doug
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 18:07:41 and 21 Dec 2005 05:23:58

Good for you! Glad to hear that a trainride has been incorporated into your family Christmas fun-things-to-do plans! [tup] Great memory makers for your children too! [swg]

Seems you’ve flicked a switch with Pete and your series on those steam trains of India. My guess is that BudKarr BK might also appreciate this series, as he seems to be an international kinda traveler.

You’re doing your level best to win that prize, eh [?] Looks like we’re going down to the wire – which really was what I had hoped for. Amazing how close many were and are …. [tup]

Only 25 you say [?] So, how come you haven’t signed on to the Birthday Watch List! [?] It’s only been posted fourteen zillion times since you’ve been with us! [swg] All that’s needed is the birth date and age you will be (which we now know!).

trolleyboy Rob
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 22:54:25 and 23:51:08 and 21 Dec 2005, 09:13:39


Another fine set of examples of what the idea of “inclusiveness” is all about. Not only answering and acknowledging, but providing some interesting “stuff” along the way. Thanx! Good seein’ ya again. Tough times for you retailers, eh [?] Sorry, Mate – but you can have every bit of the commercialism that somehow has overtaken the Christmas season. Been that way for as long as I can recall, unfortunately. So, I am in no position to say differently, but I really don’t care for the pu***o purchase. Bothers me. Glad you have a 3-day respite from it all! [tup][tup]

Really enjoyed that CNR Steam Passenger Train Profiles – well done! [tup][tup] Like that kinda stuff fer sure, fer sure. [swg] Just the thought of traveling in a parlour car ….. ahhhhhhh. [tup]

passengerfan Al
Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 07:28:05

Well, you flicked my switch with that last Streamliner – Roger Williams (RDCs)! [tup][tup] I could add pages to what you had to say, but won’t. Your efforts stand on their own and perhaps some other time I’ll chime in.

You really are short changing yourself without some URLs to accompany these pieces. Too bad. Last time I’ll mention it …… surely your choice.

coalminer3 CM3
Posted: 21 Dec 2005, 08:22:59

Okay – looks like we’ve got a Birthday Bash on the schedule – January 6th (Friday)! Any specific timeframe (morning – afternoon, etc.) [?]

Got a kick out of that quote – but how does one “stalk” anything with a locomotive on a track [?] [swg] Seems the limitations would definitely favor the animal from harm. Sure, not taking any measures to slow down, is about all the engineer could do – but “stalking,” hmmmmmmm.

Tell ya what, deliver a couple of carloads of that coal to our siding and we’ll find use for it. Those stockings hung by our chimney with care are from the staff – and we all know how “good” they’ve been! [swg]


Thanx to one and all for the rounds and quarters for the Juke – Herr Wurlitzer! By the by, Doug yours are the ONLY suggestions for a name to be applied to the Pickled Pigs Feet Jar holding the quarters (what’s with the Michigan quarters [?]). Again, we’re looking for something appropriate that links the prime donor of quarters – CM3 – to the name I’ll have affixed to the jar.


Later, Gents!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Morning Tom,one breakfast and as large a tankard of tea as you can find. Colder than a witches'patoot here today. (-10C) is to be the high.[:0][:(][xx(]

Nice little round the xmas tree train there. Does Juneau take rides on it ?[;)][:D]

Doug Another fine piece there this morning[tup] one can almost "taste" the sights and smells of that station in Madras.No coal for me though this year I've been a good boy[;)][:p]

The steam was gone from the main passemger trains by the end of 1957. Although many of the locals,mixed trains and branchlines continued with steam untill 1960-61,mostley due to the extreme light rail in some places. When CNR was formed in the 20's it inherited alot of scary under 75lbs rail from it's predessessors. According to my calculations you missed aged yourself a tad.[;)]I only came up with 20 [:D]

The extreme light rail is why both CN and to a lessor extent CPR had absolutly ancient moguls and 4-4-0's still operating in the late 50's. These were also the last lines to be diesilized as light weight diesels had not found their way into the picture until the late 50's early 60's. And even then alot of modifications were done to lighten them up even more. You also tended to see the old short 30-36' wodden passenger cars and baggage cars on these light rail districts, decades past their expiry dates from other railroads.


Al A fine fine,stramliner corner today. Third rail RDC's now there's something to get the boss's heart a thumping this early morning ( well late for him )[:D]


CM3 I see it's a bit chilly where you are as well,bit early for the Irish coffee yet though, soon though. [swg] I suppose that we can be thankfull that we are not walking into Manhatten today. No transit + cold weather + one of the busiest commuter systems= alot of teed of New Yorkers right before xmas.[:(!] I wouldn't wan tto be the Mayor there at the moment.[:0][B)]



Rob

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and All Present. Coffee, please, round for the house and $ for the jukebox. Nice and cold here this a.m. (-2 degres) with heavy frost all over everyhting - the only blessing is that it is flat calm.

Tom: e-mail rec'd and thank you.

The Roger Williams. Always nice to have a train named for a family ancestor. This was the only train of the New Haven's ill-considered venture into experimental trains to survive. Somewhere in the archives for Our Place, I remember posting some information about this one. It is still with us (being restored). Anyway, it survived into Amtrak. I have photographs of it in New Haven, PC, and Amtrak livery. I managed to get a cab ride on it from Boston to New Haven one time (via the Inland Route).

In reply to an earlier question; Totes, piggybacks, TOFC, Jets, pigs are all nicknames for the same technology - trailer on flatcar. RoadRailers are different. The RoadRailer system is basically a highway trailer with a set of flanged wheels that swing into position when it is on rails and swing out of the way when it is on the highway. The RoadRailer (yes, it is a trade name) was developed by the C&O back in the 1950s for use on the Pere Marquette trains. I hope this helps sort things out.

In line with all the recent postings on things Canadian, the latest issue of Classic Trains has an excellent Jim Shaughnessy article on the "Bootlegger." Lovely pictures of CV and CN steam power in COOOOLD weather as well! It'll get you in the Christmas spirit. His comments on closed cabs and cold weather operations help to dispel the "romance" of steam.

The story about the elephant reminded me of a story about Wingate Cram, who years ago was president of the Bangor and Aroostook. Cram, in response to a complaint from a State of Maine game warden that BAR trains were running over moose, said in a letter,

"I have read with interest and no little pleasure your game warden's account of how our engineers have been stalking moose and leaping at them with their iron horses. But this report, I fear, smells of nature faking of the worst sort. Hitting a moose is too dangerous a sport for well-trained engineers, such as ours, who are a coservative lot and do not consider it fun to run into anything which may be on the rails. Of course, one of them may occasionally run a rabbit to earth or point a grouse with his 500 thousand pound monster, but they never use them for big game."

Speaking of spirits, let's try for January 6, 2006 for birthday bash (back off Boris, bashing comes later!)

BTW, we have excellent coal here for stockings. How many carloads do you want?

work safe

[siberianmo]

We open at 6 AM all time zones. (Don’t ask how we do that!) [swg]

WEDNESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

A “Wednesday way” to continue this countdown to Christmas is to spend a bit of time with us by ordering a <light> breakfast from the menu board – have a cup of freshly brewed coffee and try some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery! [tup]


Daily Wisdom:

There are two sides to any man’s argument. His and the wrong one.


Info for the Day:

(1) CONTEST:
What date (time optional) will ”Our” Place reach the next plateau – page 200 [?] BONUS question: WHO will be the one to “turn the page” [?]

Participants . . . . . . Date chosen . . . . (Bonus) Who will put us over the top [?]
(in order of participation)
pwolfe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Dec 20th . . . . . . . . . .siberianmo Tom
trolleyboy Rob . . . . . . . . . Dec 18th (12:05 PM) . siberianmo Tom
coalminer3 CM3 . . . . . . . .Dec 18th. . . . . . . . . . siberianmo Tom
barndad Doug . . . . . . . . . Dec 22nd . . . . . . . . . none
nickinwestwales Nick . . . .Dec 27th . . . . . . . . . .trolleyboy Rob
ftwNSengineer P . . . . . . . Dec 23rd . . . . . . . . . .trolleyboy Rob
jlampke John . . . . . . . . . Dec 24th (noon) . . . . . siberianmo Tom

CONTEST CLOSED!


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) barndad Doug Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 05:50:39 (197) Steam Delights of India, Part II, etc.

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 06:45:16 (197) Tuesday’s Info & Summary

(3) passengerfan Al Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 07:52:03 (197) Streamliner #31 – The Royal Blue

(4) wanswheel Mike Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 07:56:51 (197) Inclusive Post, excellent “etc.”

(5) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 08:13:20 (197) Inclusive Post, etc.

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 09:28:26 (197) Acknowledgments, etc.

(7) jdonald Don Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 13:52:25 (197) Diesel locos,etc.

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 14:20:33 (197) reply to jdonald

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 15:02:14 (197) NOSTALGIA #47 – Ad – NP, Yellowstone (1947)

(10) West Coast S Dave Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 16:34:25 (198) He’s baaaaaaack (again & again)!, Good reading!

(11) pwolfe Pete Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 17:59:21 (198) Inclusive Post, etc.

(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 18:06:00 (198) reply to: West Coast S

(13) barndad Doug Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 18:07:41 (198) Steam Delights of India, Part III & Inclusive Post, etc.

(14) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 22:54:25 (198) Inclusive Post, etc.

(15) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 23:51:08 (198) Classic CNR Steam #11

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!



From siberianmo’s home: (click to enlarge)

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for coffee and a diet pastry from the Mentor Bakery.

PASSENGERFAN AL'S STREAMLINER CORNER #32

ROGER WILLIAMS New York New Haven & Hartford inaugurated February 28, 1957 between Boston and New York round trip daily.

The New Haven received a six car train of special Budd RDC's to be operated as a train set. With only the two end units having diesel like control cabs, unlike conventional RDC's with a control; stand at each eand for bi-directional operation. The four intermediate RDC's were fitted with hostewlling controls only and the car ends resembled conventional Budd coaches. They all retained the conventional RDC hump in the roof for the fans and exhaust.

Seating in the ROGER WILLIAMS RDC's was was similar to rhgat found in airliners not the usuual flip over back seating found in most RDC's.
The two RDC's equipped with the diesel style control cabs 140 and 141 seated 20 in one compartment and 40 in the other compartment. The intermediate cars 160 - 163 seated 36 in one compartment and 40 in the other for a total of 76 per car compared to the 89 in a conventional %RDC-1.In January 1958 the 161 was fitted with a buffet and 40 seat dining area and retained 20 coach seats.

The trucks beneath the ROGER WILLIAMS RDC's were different then those found
under any other RDC. One axle of each truck was powered by the underfloor mounted diesls through an Allison Torque Converter. On conventional RDC's the other axle of each truck was simply an idler. On the ROGER WILLIAMS each of these axles was replaced with an axle having a traction motor that drew power from a third rail shoe. This permitted the ROGER WILLIAMS to operate into New Yorks Grand Central Station by shutting down the diesels and operating on the electric into and out of this terminal.

CONSIST
140 Cab RDC 20-Revenue Seat Compartment 40-Revenue Seat Compartment Coach

160 RDC 36-Revenue Seat Compartment 40-Revenue Seat Compartment Coach

161 RDC 36-Revenue Seat Compartment 40-Revenue Seat Compartment Coach

162 RDC 36-Revenue Seat Compartment 40-Revenue Seat Compartment Coach

163 RDC 36-Revenue Seat Compartment 40-Revenue Seat Compartment Coach

141 Cab RDC 20-Revenue Seat Compartment 40-Revenue Seat Compartment Coach

TTFN AL

[Anonymous]

Good morning Tom and fellow Ourplacians. Yea. I really do need a rail trip of some sort, and I'll get an 80 minute one tomorrow as I take the kiddies downtown for an overniter with other members of my family. I'll just have two light breakfasts this morning, as I have a Christmas dinner to attend tonight. Sure hope everyone enjoys the high quality coal I brought for their stockings! Here's some more Michigan quarters for "Pete" (the combination of of pig & feet). What do you think? Maybe not, because was already have a Pete. Howabout PJ (somewhat of an acronym from Pig and Jar)?

Great CNR post Mr. Rob. Looks like steam was really being phased out in 1957, the year after I was born, and it really bums me out. Never really got a chance to see regular steam operations. For those of you doing math, I'm still 25!

Here's Part IV in my India series. As many of you have pointed out, the Indians take overcrowding to a whole new level. They just have to have people getting hurt all the time, we just don't hear about it.

Steam Delights of India – photos and article by Ron Johnson – Rail Classics 1/82

Typical of depots in India is the busy Madras station.


Reservations on passenger trains should be made at least a week in advance if possible at tourist agencies or at station ticket offices as overcrowding is a major problem on the Indian Railway, although the addition of many new trains and longer consists have helped to ease the problem somewhat. Trains on main lines average 10 to 20 cars.

If one wishes to travel behind steam, it will usually be necessary to take the slower, medium distance trains, although there are still some steam powered expresses. Nearly all trains have both I and II class cars so one may travel in relative comfort. Plus, the bearer of a “Travel As You Like” pass will be given high priority treatment.

Engine crews are very friendly so a “footplate” or cab ride is entirely possible. The WPs have especially roomy interiors even with a three or four man crew. It is a good idea to take along some color railroad postcards to hand out liberally to the crew or better yet a Polaroid camera will provide “instant” crew approval.

If one is looking to experience a slice of Indian life, the station platform is the platter where a full portion may be served up. The visitor will observe the full spectrum of Indian culture, as just about everyone from the wealthy businessman to the beggar passes through the station concourse. Although the Indian airlines cater to some well-to-do Indians, and a few more affluent persons may be seen driving cars over the poor road system, the bulk of the population still makes use of the rail system.

While sitting in one’s compartment at a lengthy station stop, a constant parade of vendors stop and try to sell their wares to passengers. Each has his own distinctive sales pitch delivered in a sing-song native dialect. Knives, peanuts, fruits of all kinds, trinkets, beads, magazines, and newspapers all get passed through an open window in an effort to win a sale. One should not be misled by ragged, dirty children and persons with deformed limbs asking for hand-outs as most are professional beggars, but sometimes awarding a few coins will ease one’s conscience.

A smorgasbord of smells from roasted peanuts to not-so-pleasant, unhygienic odors waft by the passenger’s nose. Goats and dogs tend to be the sanitation engineers, quickly gobbling up bananas and orange peels as they drop.

Perhaps the most colorful sight on the platform is the Indian women wrapped in layers of flowing silk in bright prints, patterns, and solids.

Sometimes large families or whole villages may set up camp on the platform, complete with cooking facilities and their entire worldly possessions. During extremely dry periods, these groups move into the already overburdened larger cities looking for food and water. At night the station [platform turns into an open hotel and one sometimes has to step over sleeping bodies.

Once the traveler gets used to the spicy Indian vegetarian diet, the station restaurant can provide a tasty, nutritious meal for under a dollar. It normally consists of spinach or another vegetable, potatoes, rice and curry, and a large pancake along with plain yogurt to cool the fire afterwards. For the Western appetite, there is a limited menu of usually tea, toast, and omelets for about 56 cents.

Although the water is said to be safe to drink in the dining cars, stations, and refreshment stands, it is better not to risk an upset stomach (locally known as the Delhi belly), spoiling a holiday. Instead, it is better to opt for liquid refreshment through fruits and the tea vendor constantly shouting the native word for tea which sounds like “Chiee, chiee.” Also tea is incredibly cheap at t to 7 cents per cup. It is usually served in a disposable clay cup or a railway china cup. Coffee has a rich chocolate taste. Alcoholic beverages are not available on trains and generally only are obtainable in large cities.

Most stations have first class waiting rooms which may be used to escape the pressing crowds and also for overnight sleeping providing one has one’s own bedding. Retiring rooms may be utilized with bedding provided for overnight lodging for just pennies. Large depots have barbers and a wide range of shops to tantalize the excursionist’s taste for bargains.

After a few nights of somewhat Spartan sleeping accommodations on the trains, the trekker is in the mood for a non-bouncing bed and a hot shower. One is advised to stay at first class hotels in the larger cities to assure adequate lodging.

Now for some highlights of steam delights to tantalize the potential railfan visitor. Starting in the south in the steamy city of Madras on India’s east coast, one finds the beginning of a vast meter gauge network, where steam reigns king. One need not bring much more than short sleeve shirts, short pants and a hat to give shade from the sun as temperatures average 85 degrees during the optimum times to visit from December through February. (Plan on a wet suit if one decides to come during the monsoon season of October and the first part of November when rainfall averages 13 inches per month.) Although routes are electrified around the city there remains a lot of broad gauge steam activity. Basin Bridge Jct., a few miles west of Madras provides some excellent suburban steam workings behind WP and WG class engines. Departing south out of Madras on the electrified meter gauge, the train is then handed over to a YP class engine at Villaupuram where the juice ends. The Pacific has a relatively easy job of handling the 10 to 15 cars in this generally flat country dotted with palm trees, lush foliage and grass huts. A particularly steamy place too watch a constant parade of goods, through passenger, and local trains is Mayuram Jet. YL, WD, YP, YG and ST types may be observed in heavy action. One should come prepared with lots of bananas and oranges as it is easy to get dehydrated in this climate. (At 2 cents apiece for bananas, one cannot go wrong.) Traveling further south by train to Tiruchchirappalli Jct. one finds another very active broad and meter gauge center and is sell worth spending a day watching and photographing steam-hauled arrivals and departures.

Baldwin 2-8-0 finishes out its career as a yard shunter


[:I] Have a great day! [:I]

[trolleyboy]

I figured that it's been a while so Leon another Irish Coffee please,so I'll drop another steam tidbit on everyone.

Classic CNR Steam #11 Passenger Train Profiles SW/Ontario PT 1


Number 5

LaSalle Montreal-Chicago. Dieselized Mar 5/57. Train splits at London, with 5 going to Pt Huron, 105 originating as Windsor section. Dinning car Toronto-London, compartment parlour car Toronto-Detroit ( transfered to 105 at London ). Comp. parlour car Toronto-Pt Huron. Handles express reefers of fish from East. Sarnia crews on Sarnia-Toronto leg.


Number 6

Inter- city Limited Chicago- Montreal. Dieselized 5/57,. Compartment parlour car from Detroit, cafe - parlour car from Windsor ( off 12 ). Lifts RPO,baggage,and express from #95 at Hamilton. In 1940's , this equipment had run to Toronto as advance section. Consited then of light engine,buffer car & ancient coaches. Sarnia crews Sarnia-Toronto.

Number 9

Toronto-Windsor. Last regular steam is 6234, apr 1957, laast steam altogether is 6207 Feb 1959. Toronto-Windsor express cars and Hamilton-London,& Hamilton-Windsor express reefers. Lifts express cars at Hamilton& Brantford. Sleeping car Toronto-Detroit . Mail storage car for London ( box baggage refridgerator type ), returning on number 40. Sets off express car at Chatham. Toronto tail end crews Toronto-London. London head end crews.

Number 10

Windsor-Toronto via Stratford. Diesels first used in march 1959.Last steam was 6230 out of Windsor,6247 out of London Mar 21/59. Sleeping car Detroit-Toronto. Express car Windsor-Hamilton. Lifts express car at Chatham,express reefers at Jeannettes's Creek. Baggage car mail service London-Toronto. Extra commuter coaches added at Stratford ( winter ) Guelph ( summer ). London Head end crews,Toronto tail end crews.


Number 11/111/141

Toronto-London via Stratford. From mar 22/59 to end of steam,engine cycled back to toronto on #40. ast steam was 6211 april 8/1959.Normally baggage car and three or four coaches out of Toronto. Occasional express reefer or box-baggage. Commuter coaches set off at Guelph (summer) Stratford ( winter ). London head end crew, Toronto tail crew.

Number 12

Windsor-London Inter-city Limited Last steam was 5700,apr 14/1959. Combined with number 6 at London. Baggage car,one or two coaches,comp-parlour car from Detroit,and cafe car from Windsor. Windsor head end crews until early 50's then London. Toronto tail end crews.


Number 14

International Limited Chicago-Montreal. Diesilized in mar of 1957. Dinning car London to Toronto. ( deadheaded on number 39 ) Three sleeping cars, Chicago-Toronto. Refridgerator cars of number 10 added at London ( seasonal ). Windsor-Hamilton express car off number 10 added at London ( until april 10/1956 ) Sarnia crews.


Number 15

International Limited Montreal-Chicago. Diesilized mar 5/ 1957.Three sleeping cars, Toronto-Chicago. sarnia crews.


Number 16

Windsor-Montreal Maple Leaf ,later Ontario Limited . Last steam was 6233,mar 22/1959 . Windsor-Toronto express car. Lifts fruit at Jeannette's Creek. Dinning car Windsor-Toronto ( off 117 ), comp. parlour car Detroit-Toronto,sleeper Detroit-Montreal. Toronto head end crews Toronto-London,London head end crews London-Sarnia, Toronto tail end crew.

Number 17

Inter-city LTD Montreal-Chicago. Last steam was 6204 apr 4/57. Parlour car Toronto-Detroit,cafe car Toronto-Pt Huron,buffet car Toronto-Chicago,sleeper Montreal-Detroit ,another sleeper Montreal-Chicago. Handles express reefers of fish from east,lifted at Hamilton. Normally six coaches out of Toronto.Train splits at London. Toronto head end crews Toronto-London, London head end crews London-Sarnia. Toronto tail end crews.


enjoy PT 2 later. Rob

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon,I'll have a nog as well,good festive idea ( the name tag ). Noticed that boris is wearing one green and one red shoe tonight and the antlers glued onto tex's head are also a nice touch.


Tom You picked quite a nice tree there[tup] good to see that you don't go for the charlie Brown type trees. i've been trying to think up an appropriate, name for the pigs feet jar. Though of a couple but I keep comming back to the "Coal scuttle " grandma used to call the coal loading door on her house that,a thought anyway.

Nice shots of the signs and critter's as well. Is it me or do those bears look like they may have been scared by the boys on one of their sunday Forays[?]

Ted Hope all goes well at the VA [tup]It was nice if Tom and Pete to think of you and post those pictures from union station. Is that indoor train there year round ?


Doug Wonderfull series on the Indian rail scene,like Tom I see the mental images of the sea of humanity clinging to the outside of the coaches as they wound through some failry trecherous,track work in the hills and valley's.


CM3 I had to giggle at the lyrics to that song. Reminds me of Stomoping tom Connor's TTC Skedaddler ( for some reason our museum friends kept requesting it at our wedding ) Likley only Don would know of it or Stomping Tom.


Don Nice info ,<continuing> on the tank engines. The diesel book you mentioned is quite a good tool. BTW if anyone wants specific numbers and dates on CNR/CPR locomotive classes aand numbers ( diesel ) Let me know i have, most of Donald Lewis's Rail Canada series.


Mike Thanks for the caboose info, I miss them myself . Like Tom the end of trains just aren't as exciting anymore. If I catch the "kitty litter rocket" ( CN train that switches a kitty litter/ aggregate plant here in Brantford two or three times a day ) it uses a caboose on the train as it has to back ,back to the station and yard,usually with 20-25 large jumbo covered hoppers,over what used to be a mix of old TH&B& LE&N 90lbs track. To make it more interesting it's imbedded in the city street and the ROW runs down between rows of houses to boot part of the way.

To answer your email question to me. ( Mike wanted to know what the difference was between a trolley and streetcar ) There is no real difference. In Canada most street railway passengers cars were refered to as streetcars. In the early days ( pre 1915 } The summer open cars were refered to as trolley's. After the open cars were banned in 1915 ( saftey reasons due to their side running boards and hand brakes ) both terms tended to be used interchangeably, though streetcar was the most common. I've noticed that in talking to many American friends and enthusiasts that the prefered term for all electric cars in the US was trolley with the term streetcar being the rarity. Seems to be mostly a regional thing.Similarly you will see me refer to certain cars as "radial's" our Museum's name is a case in point Halton County Radial Railway In Canada interurban lines ( city to city electric transit ) were known as Radials instead of the US term Interurban, again same thing different regional name. Our Museum took it's name because our ROW is an old radial line that was called the Toronto Suburban Radial Railway.( Ran Toronto to Guelph from 1917 to 1931)

Nick and Pete safe journies and a merry Christmas to you and yours as well.

Dave Nice to see you again,and thanks for the F unit info. I never fully understood the ins and outs of the FT's and the F2 ,F5 locos as none lived here in the great white North. In fact very few F3's actually were purchased for Canada. CPR started in with the F7's and CN only had a half dozen F3's ( all A units ) GT had a mit full of F3's a few dozen in fact if memory serves,all were later rebuilt to F7 standards along with their CN cousins. Most of the F9's in Canada were the FP9 varient with the passenger car heating boilers installed.



Well folks have a good evening. I'll be spotty the rest of this week. No rest for the wicked at work,i'll likley hit 10-20 hours of OT. [:O] I did manage to get the 24th off though so a three day break for me. < Woo Hoo > I can rest my back ( twisted it shovelling ) and catch up on lost [zzz]

Rob