"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[Anonymous]

Good evening Tom and friends! Dave has the right idiea with the eggnog ... so I'll have one too! I loved his informative and lengthy post on F units too. I'm sure he posted just to help me be the 200th page contest winner ... right? Please set yourself up with a Keith's, and set-up my buddies with their favorites. I'll have grilled steak if at all possible. I'm starving!

What a beautiful tree Tom! It was really nice to see it. I also want to thank you for the E-card ... it was wonderful, and you are very thoughtful to think of it. Liked your Nostalgia #47 of the NP .. sure wish I'd been around to see it, but as we all know, I'm only 25.

Another great streamliner series Al on the Royal Blue B&O! I didn't know they manufactured their own passenger cars. Sure appreciate your efforts with this series

Mike, I believe that the author of the India series wasn't implying that only railroad workers had the jobs ... just that they had 1/20th of the available workforce. Still, they made a better wage than most workers, I believe. Thanks for taking an interest in the series. I wasn't sure anyone would really care about it. Thanks too to Ted for your India Railroad observations.

CM3, that was an "interesting" poem. I don't think I have to worry about it getting stuck in my head though. I might just look up your book on the Royal Blue. Thanks for making us aware of it!

And now ... Here's part III in my India series:

Steam Delights of India – photos and article by Ron Johnson – Rail Classics 1/82

Heavy overhaul at Perambur shops in Madras on a WG 2-8-2


Varansi Diesel Locomotive Works set up in 1963 has produced over 300 diesel-electric locomotives based on an Alco design. In addition diesel switchers are produced at the Telco plant. Diesel rail cars are also produced in India.

Construction of freight equipment has been increased to such an extent that surplus units have been sold to such countries as Yugoslavia. Commodities as coal, iron and other ores, cement, fertilizers, food grains, and petroleum products are moved via rail.

Doubleheaded steam engines or multiple unit diesel lashups are rare with most freight trains averaging 25 to 50 cars. Unit coal, iron ore, and petroleum trains are utilized. Truck competition is keen, but roads are poor. The landscape over which Indian Railways operate is generally flat which is one reason why one unit can handle so many cars. The other reason why the Indian Railway can afford to run many short, one locomotive trains is because of low wages offered railroad employees. The average railroad engineer earns 125 rupees a week. With the dollar equaling eight Indian rupees this figures out to about 15 dollars a week. Compared to the average unskilled worker’s weekly take home pay of three dollars a week, the railroad profession is a highly desirable position in which to be employed in India.

In 1951-52 to show the union of the individual lines under the one banner of Indian Railway the old names like “Great Indian Peninsula,” and “Bombay, Baroda & Central India” disappeared in favor of grouping the railways by zones. The new names indicated the geographical areas where the lines were located. At first there were six groups, now increased to nine. They include the Southern, South Central, Central, Western, Northern, North Eastern, South Eastern, and North East Railways. Each one of these divisions has retained its own distinctive two-tone color scheme. The boiler, top half of the cab and tender sides are black while the lower parts reflect individual railway colors. Some engines are painted all one color such as maroon or dark green. One may find leaf green as the second color of the Central Railway engines, reddish brown for the Northern colors, orange for the Southern with some engines on the meter gauge in the south dressed in a pleasing dark blue hue. One comes across from time to time a spotless steed gleaming with polished brass. Such ornaments as a pin wheel affixed to the smoke box front or a brass wind direction indicator mounted on the boiler dome really set off an engine. These special additions occur when an engineer is assigned to a specific locomotive.

One may obtain some incredible travel bargains in India. A ticket entitling foreign nationals to “Travel As You Like” for three weeks may be purchased with a choice of AC (air conditioning) class at $200.00, I class/II AC class $80.00, and II class $25.00. An “All India Railway Timetable” for $1.00 is the railfan’s Bible while touring, but is available only in India at major stations.

Passenger service in India, although constantly improving, is at best slow on many trains. All the major cities are linked with fast “mail” and “express” trains having AC I/II class cars. Only about 35 board gauge trains and eight meter gauge trains have dining and buffet cars. Most of these trains are either diesel or electric hauled. The primiere “Rajdhani Express Mail” from Delhi to Calcutta, a distance of 892 miles, has the best running time of 16 hours to cover the route at an average speed of 55 mph on the board gauge. The “Rajdhani Express” traverses a broad gauge route from Bombay to Delhi, a distance of 860 miles, in 19 hours at an average speed of 45 mph. These special trains run only twice a week. The “Frontier Mail” covers the same route as the “Rajdhani Express” in 24 hours at an average speed of 35 mph, but if one is in the mood for a marathon excursion, this trains entire 1,223 mile route between Delhi and Calcutta can be covered in 36 hours. All long distance trains stop about once every hour for ten to twenty minutes so one may stretch the legs and perhaps photograph the head end power.

If the outside of a car has the words “air conditioning” spelled out, one can be assured of an air-cooled ride with sealed windows, but if the initials “AC” appear on the outside, this means there are fans installed in the ceiling to circulate the sometimes humid air. Air conditioned service is provided on about 30 broad gauge and 10 meter gauge trains. I class AC sleepers consist of two and four berth compartments, with upper and lower horizontal berths opening off a corridor with Western and Eastern style toilets and showers at each end. Some of these cars have bedding, towels and toilet paper available. (The traveler should be prepared with one’s own supply of toilet paper as it is nonexistent in II class sections and in many I class cars.) Each sleep has its own attendant. If a particular train does not have dining facilities on board, it is customary for the traveler to contact the car attendant and have him telegraph ahead to the next major station for a meal to be prepared which is delivered personally. One rule is that I class AC sleepers must be fully utilized during the hours of 6 a.m.-9 p.m. with six persons occupying the couch type seats. This gives one a chance to chat with Indian doctors, lawyers, businessmen, etc. sharing the compartment. Except on certain special trains where bedding is available on the trains, it should be hired for a small rental fee at the beginning station and dropped off when detraining. Both meter and broad gauge sleepers have the same car layouts with a narrow corridor on meter gauge cars. II class sleepers have open instead of closed compartments as found in I class.

I class AC chair cars have very comfortable reclining plush leather seat with an amazing 2 ½ feet of leg room. Foot rests are an inclined plate rather than a metal bar. Arm rests, like those on airlines, flip down between seats. II class chair cars also have reclining seats.

It is not recommended that Western Travelers take advantage of second class accommodations in spite of the much cheaper cost, as wooden seats are very hard along with tremendous overcrowding. Also it is almost impossible to keep the car windows closed and free of the constant dust which settles on everything. I class cars have metal screens which may be pulled down to filter the air. All windows have horizontal metal bars to minimize breakage, which makes photography a bit difficult. If one is careful, the camera may be positioned between the bars.

WP Pacific just in with a morning train at Mettupailyam has star herald on nose


[:I] Thus endith part III [:I]

[siberianmo]

Good Evenin' Gents!

Well, a surprise - the return of West Coast S Dave once again (and again)! [swg] Glad you found us - thought for sure you got transferred to the Falklands or some other such place for "fallen angels!" [swg] Seriously, glad you are amongst us once again .... next time you decide to take off for weeks on end, how about a bit of notice! <geesh> Your [purple[Permanent Stool[/purple] awaits! [tup]

Appreciate the info on the F's as well as the explanation regarding the cabs. Hope it gets picked up .... I'm in a bit of a press for time, so I'll hold off thorough perusual of your Post 'til the mornin'.

Sorry I don't have time to stick around - heading out for the evenin' with my bride. So, Leon the Night Man has the bar until closing. Be nice to him - he likes to wear his nametag backwards this time of year. [swg]

Let's not forget to render the "social graces" expected at our bar 'n grill - greet the bartender and order a drink and some food. Hey! It's cyber land - this stuff has absolutely no calories and the price is right! [swg] <geesh> How difficult can that be [?]

Boris ring the bell and Leon a round for the house! [tup]

Catch y'all in the 'morrow!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams please is it still on Mike's tab[?].

WANSWHEEL MIKE. Yes Kansas City's Union Station is Magnificent. There was an article in Trains mag, in the late 1990s, about the renovation. There was a great deal of work that had to be done. I believe that in the early part of next year a bridge is being erected over the railtracks outside the station. Hopefully this will attract more visitors. I dont know if the model railways in the entrance hall are going to be there year round or are just during the Christmas period.

CM3 Can you tell me what is a Piggyback or Tote train. Is it the same as a Road-Railer [?].

DOUG Many thanks for the posts on the Indian Railways, and TED and CM3 for the extra info. Where I worked in the 70s there were some lads from India and would visit relatives and they used to tell me about their journies behind the steam trains. One lad offered to let me accompany him but unfortunatly I hadn't got the funds to do it. The Darjeeling Hill Railway still operates mainly I believe as a tourist attraction although it has suffered from land-slides in recent years. The British railway magazines covered Indian Railways in the last days of their steam engines but I have not read anything about them lately.
Although there WAS a piece about a diesel loco that hit a baby elephant, its mother apparently saw this and repeatedly charged the loco making it a total failure. At least B.R. and Amtrak coudn't use this as a reason for a train delay [(-D] Looking forward to future posts on the Indian Railway.[tup].

AL Thanks for the Royal Blue. Surely the Hudson was a lot more powerful than the 1800HP diesel[?].

DON It seems my railway days were similier to yours. When I first got interested in railways ( at a very young age) there was only 5 Main-Line diesels on the lines near my home. I also lost interest in railways when steam finished (in 1968) and missed some interesting diesel classes especially in Scotland. By 1973 a lot of the early classes had gone. [sigh].

Interseting point about the single-cab locos. There were some single-cab locos on B.R.( not counting switchers) most were short lived although the class20s first built in 1957, some of which are working today, were single- cab but nearly always worked in pairs with the cab ends outwards.
The class 91 electrics main power today on the East- Coast London-Edinburgh route have the main cab on the forward sloping end of the loco, at the rear of the loco,which has a flat end, is a smaller cab. This allows the loco to work with the flat end leading following a failure although at a reduced speed.I hope we can talk about this subject some more [tup].
DAVE Good to see you[tup]. Thanks for the info on the reason for the American single-cabs

TOM Great Christmas tree.[tup] Thanks for theNorthern Pacific Nostalgia. I hope none of the passengers got too near to the "begging bears" [:)]

Many Thanks for the E-Mails . PETE.

[West Coast S]

Seasons greetings Tom and all... Eggnogg with a jigger of rum if you please.



OK, i'm still in catchup mode, but several topics did peak my interest of late... Yellow Bananas for the UP passenger fleet? interesting..not heard that term used before, I have heard the term " the Armour Fleet"obviously a quip to the shade of yellow chosen.




Tom..........a history of the F unit is further complicated by the numerous rebuilds performed by the railroads and EMD..For example FTs would be rebuilt with F7 side panels but retain orginal roof configuration, or be completely reskinned with no trace of orginal heritage remaining. Yet one could also be upgraded internally with no visible modifications except for a fan swap, EMD modified the door frame design on several occasions and this would also help define a upgrade, also the nose was refined over the years and several FT/F3 fleets recieved these upgrades, sometimes with no changes to the side panels, EMD did provide a nose/number board and fuel tank retrofit program.

Many roads elected to upgrade early F units to F9 specs, replacing belt driven machinnery and pulleys, mechanical relays with generator powered accesories and solid state electronics. WP and RG where examples that boasted rebuilt FTs to these specs. Then you have the odd EMD model that were transation designs, the F2, F5, employing useable, proven features from a earlier design, but offering improvements demanded by the customer. Ok are we confused yet? The FT evolved into to F2 which then evolved into the F3, the F3 eliminated the belts driving the cooling fans and a burn proof design for the dynamic brakes was achieved, a severe sore point on the FT was the dynamic brakes and their means of control.. The F3 evolved into the F7, the timming couldn't have been more perfect as the drive to eliminate steam was in full force across the country, EMD with fifteen years of on the road experience was ready to fill that need.

The F9 sold in vary small numbers, hood units were in vouge and EMD offered a F9 to appease those loyal cab unit unit customers who were quickly fading from the idea of the cab design. SP ordered F9's in 1959 for example, the order was cancelled and resubmitted for geep 9's. Rio Grande aquired its small F9 fleet via rebuilds by EMD in which RG provided a now obsolote F3/FT hulk. WP considered the F9, as in the SP , the geep 9 was chosen instead. Only the Canadian Railways expressed any interest in the F9 to any degree. The IC offered a F10 built in it's Puduca Ky, shops that gained some popularity among the MRC, former GM&O F3s provided the fodder for these high tech rebuilds.

Ok on to other things.. As to why North American diesels have but one cab, vrs, two.. typically the American train is heavier then its European counterparts, requiring MU capability, not to much to have them in opposite postions, also most roads long ago eliminate turining facalities making a cab on either end mandatory. Also the cost of having a cab and all the necessary equiptment not in use 50% of the time would be intollerable in todays dollars. Now, the WP considered a F unit in the trailing position a waste of motive power and the practice was forbidding.
Baldwin did produce some double cab designs for the Central Railway of New Jersey, these units were restricted to commute duties were turnaroud time was of the essence. GE produced the Turbine 50 with a cab on each end, UP who later purchased the unit sealed it up for incressed fuel capacity, UP considered the duel cab a complete waste of resources. EMC box motors, the predecessor to the E series were built with duel cabs, but the primary contractor, St. Louis Car Works was familar with this design due to years involved with heavy interurban equiptment assembly.


Ok Boris, i've got to get back to the task which pays my bills..

MARRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR.

Dave

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #47

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Northern Pacific (NP) from a 1949 advertisement in my personal collection.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . See Nature’s greatest show at . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . YELLOWSTONE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

SEETHING GEYSERS and growling mudpots . . .

. . . . . steaming hot springs and lacy waterfalls . . .

. . . . . . . . . . begging bears and aloof antelope . . .

no wonder visitors never tire of talking about their Yellowstone trip on the streamlined North Coast Limited.

Make this your year to tour America’s biggest, strangest national park . . .

. . . . . but make your reservations soon! North Pacific – “the Yellowstone Park line” – will send literature about Yellowstone and other places you want to visit out West.

Write G. W. Rodine, Dept. 339, Northern Pacific Railway, St. Paul 1, Minn.

. . . . . . . . . . NORTHERN PACIFIC . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . YELLOWSTONE PARK LINE . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Good questions you bring to the bar, Don - never quite thought of either aspect. Why, indeed on both counts [?] My guess is we'll get some info from earlydiesels Dan & pwolfe Pete to enlighten us.

I'd like to know a bit more about the progression through the F series of diesels. In some cases they all look the same - but then upon closer inspection, one can begin to identify the F3 from the F7, etc. Anything on that, along with perhaps a URL or two would be of interest. [tup]

Thanxs for the Keith's Pale Ale - man oh man I just love the stuff! [swg] On one of my trips between Montreal and Halifax the Park car (observation dome) didn't have any on board AND on one of our stops of 20 minutes or so, departed the train to pick up a 12-pack. Now how's that for service [?] It was a VIA Rail person with whom I had traveled serveral times and obviously was quite a gesture on his part. To this day when our path's cross, I always bring up the situation - and he remembers it. Ahhhhhhh, sitting up in the dome, watching the world pass by - night or day - is all made just a tad better with a Keiths in hand! [swg]

Enough for now .. Enjoy the day!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[jdonald]

Afternoon Tom & all: I'll have the usual Alex Keith and one for yourself.

Forgot to mention this A.M.--the treemendus Christmas tree. Thats great, esp with the train running by it.

Pogo comics[:)] man I remember them when I was a kid.

On the subject of dieseldom-I also have another excellent Kalmbach book-"Diesel Locomotives: The First 50 Years" by Louis A. Marre. It covers all diesels built before 1972 which I think are the most interesting. It is broken down between Manufacturers and then by model and then which railway had this model and how many. If anybody wants to know something about the first generations diesels let me know.

Speaking of diesels-here is a subject to discuss(hope it hasn't been done before I joined) Why were virtually all British diesel locos built with cabs at both ends, while virtually all N. Amer. were built with only one cab. Even more more mysterious-why were all N. Amer. electric locos built with cabs at both ends[?]Something to ponder maybe.

Bye for now-keep it on the rails

Don

[siberianmo]

Mornin’ Gents!

We had a rather interesting day yesterday and wound up with a respectable number of Posts to show for it. Thanx to all for helping to keep us “up” on the Forum!

As Christmas draws ever closer, I expect we’ll see fewer ‘n fewer Posts. The bar ‘n grill will remain open throughout this Christmas and holiday season, but take note of the following:

Christmas Eve – CLOSE at 6 PM (all time zones!)

Christmas Day (Sunday) – CLOSED – even the mail slots will be “blocked.”

New Year’s Day (Sunday) – CLOSED – mail slots “open,” but NO PIX!


To the acknowledgments:

barndad Doug
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 05:50:39

Ourplaceinauts [?][?] Well, that’s surely ….. different. Hmmmmmm. Methinks Doug needs a train trip! [swg]

You are doin’ your best to ensure a good shot at the “prize” and I’d say given a real drought with the Posts, you and P are neck ‘n neck. Now, I could always Post all of my Fallen Flags Nostalgia pieces, the Veterans/Remembrance Day Posts, the Christmas Posts thus far, etc., etc. That would skew the results, eh [?] [swg]

Thanx for the round AND quarters! [tup][tup]

We need to come up with an appropriate name for the Pickled Pig’s Feet Jar that has become the repository for the quarters feeding Herr Wurltizer! Thought perhaps something reflective of the “Chief Donor,” CM3 would be appropriate … any thoughts out there [?] (repeated request at least thrice!)

passengerfan Al
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 07:52:03

So the question IS: Are there ANY licenses “out there” that you do NOT have [?] <geesh> You’ve got the “market cornered” as the saying goes! [swg] You must bring along some of your “fold out” business cards for the guys at our Rendezvous in Toronto! this May. <grin>

Good stuff, as always regarding the ongoing effort with your Streamliner Corner. You really need to add some URLs to round out the “rest of the story.” [tup]


A request – If anyone “out there” can help in locating appropriate URLs – please do so. Find ‘em and ship ‘em off to Al by Email. Just click on his cyber name here on the thread to begin the Email process. Thanx!


wanswheel Mike
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 07:56:51

Mornin’ Mike A nice bit of work regarding your Post – only thing missing was an order for “something” – so without further delay, Tweeeeeeeeeeeet! Tweeeeeeeeeet! Rules Violation, Rules Violation! Rule #2, failure to order a drink and/or food! Boris Ring the bell – drinks are on Mike – OJ all around! [swg]

Good effort, nonetheless! [tup][tup] Also, I appreciate your taking the time to acknowledge our Christmas Tree!.

Comment: Acknowledgments are far ‘n few between when it comes to items within the SUMMARY. Perhaps they too will be “history” as we get into 2006. I’m leaning in that direction. Pointless to keep putting “stuff” out that isn’t being commented on, much less read.

Also, haven't seen hide nor hair of Trainnutr484 Russell since Dec 4th or West Coast S Dave since Dec 6th. A sad situation, given that these two were really quite dependable regulars. Times, things and people change .....


Theodorebear Ted
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 08:13:20

Appreciate your stoppin’ by before heading out on your rounds for the day. Hospitals, doctors, et al at this time of year just shouldn’t factor in. However, I too have those “things” penciled in on my calendar, throughout the 12 months. Hope all goes well. [tup]

jdonald Don
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 08:40:01

We are what we eat – or something like that. I think our preferences in most things in life have lots to do with our experiences early on. With me it was those gleaming streamliners in New York City’s Grand Central Terminal and Pennsylvania Station back in the 40’s and 50’s. Diesels had just about “pushed out” the steam loco’s whenever I think back to the trips we took, they always had diesel or GG-1 power. As time passes, I too grow more ‘n more fascinated with anything rolling along on steel rails. Good point.

coalminer3 CM3
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 08:59:05

Good stuff all – even that horrid set of “lyrics,” from your tribute to Pogo. <ugh> Got a laugh out of it anyway – so what does that say about moi [?] [swg]

Regarding YOUR Birthday Bash!! we got the “message.” Believe me, since I am the “Schedule maker what’s in charge (SMWIC) ‘round here – it takes TIME to line these things up simply to ensure a respectable turnout. So c’mon – look at January’s calendar, and go for it. Otherwise, when Dec 29th rolls around, we’re celebrating in spite of you! [swg] We haven’t had a good bash around here in a long time ……. You’re “up” next!

If there’s “one thing” I come away with from reading your inputs it is that the railroads had ever changing “faces.” Nothing was cast in stone, so to speak. I’ve seen that with the Fallen Flags that I’ve posted, especially when they take in just a snippet of time – never all inclusive. How could they [?] Ever changing – always adjusting, etc. There are more than a few – especially on my “other thread” who seem to delight in finding what they believe are errors – rather than take the info simply for what it is – info. One guy thinks that just because he traveled on a particular train in a particular month within a particular year that the train “lived on” for decades, or was indeed in operation prior to his experiences. Therefore, my “info” was incorrect. Where’s Pogo when we need him [?] [swg]

Thanx for the round – as always and the quarters! [tup][tup]


Later, Gents!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and All Assembled; coffee, please, round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

RE Birthday bash; several pages ago I suggested that we postpone it until after New Years because folks will be busy with holiday activities, etc. Of course, maybe my memory is playing tricks on me, and I just THINK I made that post. Anyway, let's hold off until after New Years.

That being said, here's some of the (printable) words to "Deck Us All With Boston Charlie." We'll get Boris to set the tempo with that big club he keeps behind the bar.

Deck us all with Boston Charlie
Walla Walla Wash., and Kalamazoo
Nora's freezin' on the trolley
Swaller dollar cauliflower alley-garoo!

Dopn't we know archaic barrek
Lullaby Lilla boy, Louisville Lou?
Trolley Molly don't love Harold
Boola boola Pensacoola hullabaloo!

Total nonsense, for sure, but it ran every year in the Sunday Pogo strip closest to Christmas.

Herb Harwood, Jr. wrote an excellent book on the Royal Blue. I believe it has been reprinted and should still be available; certainly a beautiful train. Also, fascinating material on India. I recall the PBS programs and they were good ones. I have a mining engineer friend who spent a lot of time in India, and he told some fascinating stories about riding some of their trains. If you think the cooking on the cars was fun, he had quite a few comments re the facilities (or lack thereof - as he said, there's no such thing as holding tanks).

The other night I was looking up some information on piggyback trains and found this piece of advertising.

It's from the L&N - about 1969. An interesting choice of names, although I never heard these trains called by name . I was living deep in the heart of L&N country then, and the railroad folks called them "Totes." This was a generic name on the L&N for all TOFC service.

Day or Night Deparrtures Wtih L&N's two all-piggyback Dixie Flyers between Midwest and South

Ship With a Piggyback Leader
Between Chicago, St. Louis, Cincinnati
and
Atlanta, Tampa, Jacksonville and Miami

Automobile Terminals - Paved, fenced, and lighted facilities are provided at Atlanta, Birmingham, Louisville, Memphis, Nashville, and New Orleans.

One other piece of L&N material tying back to the comments on caboose(s) earlier. The L&N participated in some run-through activity back in the late 60s and early 70s. One of these trains was off the Missouri Pacific. It had MP power and either MP or T&P cabs (depending on what day it was). Also the L&N as it became a shall we say, bigger and bigger player, had cabs from other roads on their trains as well. These included: SAL, ACL, SCL, CEI, and Monon. IOW, you never knew what was going to be on their trains.

work safe

[jdonald]

Mornin Tom & all-how about a light breakfast, coffee black and one for yourself.

You mentioned that you are a diesel man-guess my attachment to the steam loco goes back to my impressionable pre-teen and early teen years and still being able to see steam in action. At that time the diesel was to be scorned-but as time went on that attitude softened. Now anything that runs on rails is of interest.

wanswheel regarding the LIRR-curiously enough the book I mentioned doesn't list any steam locos for the LIRR. I believe that at one time the PRR had a connection with the LIRR[?] The PRR listings shows no tank locos. Not much of an answer to your question but I will keep looking.

Al echoing Toms comment about pix to accompany your streamliner series. Would be interesting to see what that EMC box cab looked like with streamliner consist.

Well better spend some time on the dreaded Christmas shopping[:(]

Bye for now-keep it on the rails

Don

[Anonymous]

Good morning early birds. Hi Tom, I only poked my nose in for a quick hello before departing for the V.A. scene. Maybe just a Folgers and a toasted English muffin w/cream cheese for now. Good idea for the Gals and "we few" getting together on a low profile status. I'm still in a quandry as to Dec. 29 and CM3's Birthday Bash??? [:O] Barndad Doug, this is great stuff on the Sub Continent railways. P.B.S. ran a couple of (1 hour) documentaries on the last of the retiring Mainline steam loco's some years ago. It appears electrics are taking over in a big way. However, not before a huge celebration for retiring the venerable heavy steam locos all decorated to each Engineers personal fancy and competing for "best design." No question that the people of India loved their steam trains with an alomost spiritual reverence. I was astonished that anything ever moved at all because of the suffocating government bureaucracy inherited from the old British colonial rule in the 1800's. Who can say no to the charms of the narrow gauge steam trains, of which, the Darjleen mountain run was originally built for Royalty from both countries to escape the summer heat of the big cities. Some areas of China still run steam and "back waters" of South American countries have some remote traces around. For the most part, it is excursions, museums, restoration clubs or nothing at all.[V]

Good grief, I've got to get a move on. So, it's bon voyage to Nick and thanks to all who keep "Our" Place the cyber refuge it has come to be. Happy rails.

[wanswheel]

Good morning Tom and everyone and what a purty tree

Pete from the pictures Kansas City has a magnificent station. The walls look like marble.
Tom in my 1956 atlas Missouri seems unique in that it had 2 major rail hubs, each with more than a dozen routes converging from all directions.

Doug your author's arithmetic is food for thought. If in 1982 the 1.3 million employees of the Indian Railway were 1/ 20th of the total workforce, that's only 26 million breadwinners to feed about 3/4 of a billion people. Holy Cow!

Don I have a question: Do you know if the Long Island Rail Road used suburban engines? Long Island is as suburban as it gets. No escape without driving through at least 2 boroughs of New York City.

P if I understand your post correctly, that your Grandfather Guthrie passed tragically, I'm sorry.

The City of New Orleans was written by Steve Goodman, who also died too young. Just the perfect song to describe the rail scene of his era. He also wrote the perfect Country Western song, with lyrics like,
"Well I was drunk the day my Mom got out of prison..."

I wonder why the railroads don't keep that "little red caboose behind the train." Sure, obsolete and costs money, but almost everybody, even someone who is not "into" trains likes to see a caboose. IMHO the favorable "last" impression the caboose leaves on the viewer is worth its weight in corporate good will.

Merry Christmas Nick and thanks for packing so much energy and imagination into the transcript of this thread.

Al it looks like Tom is trying to make you work a little harder and add pictures to your consists. He's just trying to get you into shape for tax season.

Ted to a little boy without a TV, Gene Autry's voice said it all:
Rudolph with your nose so bright, won't you guide my sleigh tonight?
Here comes Santy Claus here comes Santy Claus right down Santy Claus Lane!

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom Time for a cup of coffee full strength and a diet pastry from the Mentor Bakery.

Maybe in the next day or two I will get a chance to catch up on the postings, Did catch your comment on tax and mortgage brokerage yesterday had never thought about it in that light but it sure has the wheels turning now. Guess I should throw in the Notary License and I have it all covered.

PASSENGERFAN AL'S STREAMLINER CORNER #31

ROYAL BLUE B&O June 24, 1935 Jersey City - Washington round trip daily 223.6 miles each way 447.2 miles round trip daily 3 hours 30 minutes each way.

The lightweight streamlined ROYAL BLUE consist was constructed by American Car & Foundry Co. of Aluminum with a steel center sill.
At the same time EMC constructed a boxcab diesl with two 900 HP Winton diesels located in the carbody giving the unit 1,800 HP total.
The B&O shops also constructed a streamlined 4-6-4 locomotive named the LORD BALTIMORE to compare the two types of power.

CONSIST

2 LORD BALTIMORE Streamlined 4-6-4 Hudson Locomotive & Tender
or
50 EMC 1,800 HP Boxcab Diesel Passenger Double Ended Cab Unit

5750 Baggage 30' Railway Post Office Car

5800 64-Revenue Seat Coach

5801 64-Revenue Seat Coach

5802 64-Revenue Seat Coach

5700 9-Seat Lunch Counter 32-Seat Dining Car

5930 24-Revenue Seat Parlor Car with 5-Seat Parlor Drawing Room

5931 24-Revenue Seat Parlor Car with 5-Seat Parlor Drawing Room

5998 18-Revenue Seat Parlopr 15-Seat Lounge Observation

In July 1936 the Railway Post Office Compartment was removed and and replaced with an additional 36 revenue coach seats.

In January 1937 a new 60-revenue seat coach 5806 was constructed in the B&O shops and added to the ROYAL BLUE.

For further ROYAL BLUE infoirmation see the new ROYAL BLUE inaugurated April 25, 1937

TTFN AL

[siberianmo]

TUESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

We open at 6 AM all time zones. (Don’t ask how we do that!) [swg]

[A “Tuesday way” to continue this countdown to Christmas is to spend a bit of time with us by ordering a <light> breakfast from the menu board – have a cup of freshly brewed coffee and try some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery! [tup]


Daily Wisdom:

When two play, one wins.


Info for the Day:

(1) CONTEST:
What date (time optional) will ”Our” Place reach the next plateau – page 200 [?] BONUS question: WHO will be the one to “turn the page” [?]

Participants . . . . . . Date chosen . . . . (Bonus) Who will put us over the top [?]
(in order of participation)
pwolfe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Dec 20th . . . . . . . . . .siberianmo Tom
trolleyboy Rob . . . . . . . . . Dec 18th (12:05 PM) . siberianmo Tom
coalminer3 CM3 . . . . . . . .Dec 18th. . . . . . . . . . siberianmo Tom
barndad Doug . . . . . . . . . Dec 22nd . . . . . . . . . none
nickinwestwales Nick . . . .Dec 27th . . . . . . . . . .trolleyboy Rob
ftwNSengineer P . . . . . . . Dec 23rd . . . . . . . . . .trolleyboy Rob
jlampke John . . . . . . . . . Dec 24th (noon) . . . . . siberianmo Tom

CONTEST CLOSED!


SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) barndad Doug Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 05:24:51 (196) Inclusive Post! & Caboose history

(2) wanswheel Mike Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 06:22:03 (196) Arlo Guthrie, City of New Orleans

(3) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 07:00:30 (196) Acknowledgments, etc.

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 07:28:11 (196) Monday’s Info & Summary

(5) jdonald Don Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 08:35:04 (196) Pix explanations, etc.

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 08:45:56 (196) Birthday Watch List!

(7) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 10:09:05 (196) Morning pick-us-up Post!

(8) ftwNSengineer P Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 12:00:49 (196) etc.

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 12:39:23 (196) Acknowledgments, etc.

(10) ftwNSengineer P Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 15:00:19 (196) etc.

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 15:17:08 (196) NOSTALGIA #46 – Ad – CP (1949)

(12) passengerfan Al Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 17:46:55 (197) Streamliner #30 – City of Portland

(13) barndad Doug Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 17:50:51 (197) Steam Delights of India, Part I

(14) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 18:29:09 (197) Acknowledgments, etc.

(15) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 18:46:59 (197) Acknowledgments, etc.

(16) jdonald Don Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 19:33:42 (197) Tank engines, etc.

(17) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 19:47:52 (197) Acknowledgments, etc.

(18) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 21:23:16 (197) Acknowledgments,, etc.

(19) pwolfe Pete Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 21:27:02 (197) Inclusive Post, etc.

(20) siberianmo Tom Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 21:35:39 (197) reply to pwolfe

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[Anonymous]

Good morning Tom and fellow Ourplacinauts! I'll have my usual three light breakfasts with a side of some brain-food to help me remember that I chose the 22nd and not the 20th as the day we hit 200 pages on this thread. Actually I'm thinking it looks like the 23rd now, but never know. Someone may do something crazy, like list an entire steam roster from the UK or something .... right pwolfe?

Ted, it's great to have you back! Don, your book sounds interesting ...did I ever tell you what I wanted for Christmas this year?

Here's Part II of my India series. If I somehow get this whole article typed in time, we would definitely be at 200 pages by the 22nd!

Steam Delights of India – photos and article by Ron Johnson – Rail Classics 1/82

Meter gauge 4-6-2 has wind gauge on dome and pin-wheel on smokebox front.


The war years of 1939-45 brought about tremendous wear and tear on the Indian Railways. While many of the workshops were called upon to manufacture ammunition and arms for the war effort the regular maintenance on equipment went out the window. The partition of India and Pakistan in 1947 didn’t help matters as main lines in Bengal and Assam became cut so that revisions in service had to be undertaken. India’s independence from Britain also came that same year. At the same time, the flow of passenger and freight traffic increased, tremendously burdening the railways even more. This led the Government to step in and take over full and final control, which led to the last stage in development of the railway system.

Desperate for new motive power, the Indian Railway received at least 909 broad gauge freight locomotives from the U.S. and Canada during the period 1943-49. The American locomotives (from Baldwin) included 60 class AWC 2-8-0s and 40 heavy class AWE 2-8-2s. The rest of the engines were 2-8-2 design and were classed AWD (American War Department) or CWD (Canadian War Department). Most of those locomotives are still hard at work.

After the war it was resolved that the country should start reducing its dependence on foreign import of replacement parts and new equipment by furthering its own domestic production. To broaden self sufficiency, the Chittaranjan Locomotive Works in W. Bengal between Asanol and Madhupur was set up in 1950 to produce standard locomotives based on foreign import designs. A new 4-6-2 was built, class WP (Wide gauge Passenger), patterned after a 15-unti order from Baldwin in 1947 with bar frames. A total of 755 of these sleek, streamlined machines were built between 1947 and 1967. They were originally designed for express work, but because of their relatively small driving wheels and unstability at high speeds have been restricted to medium and slow speed passenger service up to 50 mph. Many sport distinctive boxpok wheels with others using the standard spoke versions. Built as simply as possible, they have no automatic stokers so require the full use of two firemen. The distinctive bullet noses remind one of the Norfolk & Western’s streamlined 4-8-4s. One can find these engines decorated with star patterns on the noses and various other colors and decorations depending on the shed and engineer to which they are assigned.

In addition to the common WP types in service today, 104 lighter Pacifics, class WL were built along with 30 2-8-4Ts designed for heavy suburban services. These types are an increasingly rare sight to see in operation.

By far the easiest class of locomotives to see in action are the WG (Wide Gauge Goods) 2-8-2s which are prevalent to the point of being boring. The first 100 were built in Britain in 1950, after which the Chittaranjan Works made a total of 2,450 machines by the time production ceased in 1970. They use the same boiler, motion, and other parts as the WP class engines, but have smaller driving wheels. Although some are typically grimy, many have silver smokebox fronts decorated in various geometric designs. It is an impressive sight to watch one of these massive giants pound by shaking the earth. Since diesels and electrics have taken over a big portion of the freight hauling duties, these engines can now be seen in local passenger service as well as goods traffic.

Just as important as the broad gauge is the meter gauge system totaling 40 percent of system trackage. During the 1939-45 was effort, hundreds of class MAWD (Meter gauge American War Department) 2-8-2s were ordered from Baldwin to help increase traffic flow. Today these classes are simplified to just WD. After the war, to try and cope with the large numbers of over-age locomotives, a program of producing steam locomotives of just four designs was put into effect. These are near copies of their wide gauge brothers built after WWII except for smoke deflectors. YP (Meter gauge passenger) 4-6-2s were produced in numbers totaling 871 along with 1,074 YG (Meter gauge goods) 2-8-2s. The 2-8-2 type was produced at Chittajaran up until February, 1972 when all steam production ceased. In addition, 264 of the lighter class YL 2-6-2s were put into service for branch line work. Finally a total of twelve 2-6-4Ts class YM were used in short distance passenger duties. Most of these locomotives were built at national locomotive works at Chittajaran or by the private Telco Company (Tate Engineering & Locomotive Company) located at Jamshedpur in Bihar.

In 1940 there were 40,000 miles of narrow gauge serving the rural population with passenger and freight service. Many of these lines were privately owned or property of the state, but many were owned by major railways. By 1947 the lines came under the jurisdiction of the Indian government. Although today’s mileage is less than half the original, many of the narrow gauge lines retain their pre-independence motive power, a bonanza to the visiting rail-fan. The most common two foot, six inch locomotives built after 1947 did come under the Indian Railway Standards for design. The class ZB 2-6-2 built in the early ‘50s are based on a Bagnell design. Heavier class ZE 2-8-2s are also in service.

A logical and farsighted development in 1925 was the introduction of electric traction. Victoria Terminus in Bombay to Kurla was the first branch section to see electric traffic. In 1961 Chittajaran Locomotive Works began to produce electric traction models and so far has manufactured 800 units in addition to diesel locomotives. Today about 12 percent of the broad gauge trackage is electrified primarily from Calcutta to Delhi and around the Bombay area. Also a section of meter gauge south of Madras is under juice. Main line electrification uses a European 50-cycle, 25kV design. At the present, the Chittajaran Works has electric locomotives in surplus for export.

It is an amazing sight to watch three packed electric suburban trains of 10,000 persons unload almost at the same time at Howrah or Sealdah stations in Calcutta. Within six or seven minutes the sea of humanity has dispersed and their places are taken by outbound passengers. The electric trains glide out of the station just in time for another batch to arrive. To be caught up and carried along in one of these mass exoduses is a bewildering experience which surpasses even rush hour on the New York subway. These efficient people movers are pleasing to watch in motion. Since temperatures range only from a low of 70 degrees in major cities during December through February to well over 100 during the humid summer months, most of the local Indians like a nice breeze whenever possible. As a result most of the automatic sliding doors are kept open by gutsy commuters hanging on the outside around the doors and on the roofs as the trains fly by at 50 mph. This provides a rainbow of colors to behold with coats, shirts, and women’s silk saris flapping in the wind.

Muggy weather in southern India was hardly improved by ceiling fans


[:I] much much more to follow ... but will it be here in time? [:I]

[siberianmo]

Hey Pete!

Just caught your Post before checking out .... glad you are back. There's an Email in your "in" box. [tup]

Perhaps if you Posted that "entire steam stock" about a thousand times, you'd have a shot at the prize! [swg]

Glad you enjoyed our finale for this year's Sunday Photo Posting Day!. We'll have two weeks "off" before resuming the Pix Postings on January 8th. Plenty of time to get those Emails to me. And yes, we all hope to "see" you while you are over in "Merry Olde!"

Later!

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of Bathams and a round for the great posts and photos of the last few days please.

Back from the Springfield area of Missouri and now back up to date despite the computer being a bit cranky at times. Wonderful posts thanks WANSWHEEL DAN DOUG CM3 AL DON ROB TEDand of course TOM[tup][tup][tup].

DON I will ask my pal in England about the web- site on the British railscene. I did not have a computer until I was over here. Many thanks for the Tank Engine Photo and the info.The 4-6-6T must be an impressive loco

A wonderful way to fini***he years Photo Sunday I only hope that I can send some from the U.K. when I am over there.A spledid variety from a loco on ice, trolleys Cabooses and to see another photo of a regular with DAN.

Tom and I saw a caboose in service coupled to the rail-grinding train as we left Kansas City but we were unable to get it on film. It is good to see that quite a few cabooses have been saved it seems that a few towns around Mid-Missouri have them some quite a distance from the railroad.

TED I am really pleased that you enjoyed the Jones Store train. It was a delight to see the pleasure it was giving to the youngsters. They have done a great job of restoring it, I only wi***hat Tom and I could have had more time to see it and the excellent model railway that was on display. I wi***he people at Union Station all the success they deserve, they are working very hard to have a railroading heritage there. There is a short article in the latest (January) issue of TRAINS mag on the RR Museum at K.C. Union Station.

Tom Many thanks for posting the photos. I can see now why the Track -Gang are so boisterous in the bar, they have probably had to fight off a bear or two on the CAN-AM. Great photos and railroad signs it is the first time I have heard of a NECCSSARY ROOM [%-)] Thanks for the Nostalgia and I agree with Ted about the Ads. The links of Mikes to the old posters are also magical [tup].

NICK If you sould call in the bar before you leave for Christmas.May I wish you and your family A MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR.[yeah].

WELL TO WIN THE COMPITITION I shall now list the entire steam stock on British Railways as it was in 1950
#1000 COUNTY OF MIDDLESEX
#1001 COUNTY OF
On second thoughts perhaps not PETE.
.

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Gents!

Nick - Don - Ted good seein' y'all tonite!

I saw you doin' the "Phantom Browse" Sir Nick and I'm sorry that we didn't connect for a proper fairwell. [Nothing will put the damper on things than a funeral, especially so at this time of year. Hope your drive is a safe and steady one. Merry Christmas to you and yours, my friend! [tup]

Don Another positive from this thread is the knowledge that gets passed on. For example, I had nary a clue what a "tank engine" was until reading about them here, many, many pages back. You've picked up on it as well and the information flow continues. Thanx! [tup] I'm a diesel kinda guy, with the lone exception being the GG-1 of Pennsy fame. Just go for "pretty" over functional and massive! Kinda the same with the gals in my life! [swg]

Ted Here's an idea - let's have a staff party for the Gals of "Our" Place, for Boris 'n Leon, for Mr. Doyle, Private Investigator and Inspector Clueless of the Local Constabulary, and of course, my gal Cindy. Rather than have an organized 'thing," we'll just have it for them and let it go at that, with no announcements or fanfare.

That's some good stuff about the humble beginnings, with ties to railroading, for a couple of America's entertainment icons. Didn't know of either. Let's have some MORE! [tup]

FOR ALL WHO BOUGHT ROUNDS TODAY - Thanx! [tup][tup]

Time for me to turn things over to Leon the Night Man who has been off since last Thursday. Boris Ring the bell - and Leon give 'em what they please!

Nite! [zzz]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

[Anonymous]

Good evening all. Tom, maybe a hot cuppa Joe with a "slider" of Crown Royal to take off the chill, thanks. Some more good information and memorabilia today from CM3, Barndad Doug, Don, Mike and, of course, the Nostalgia #46 from Tom. Those pieces always "get to me" because those ads were "the stuff that dreams were made of" years ago.[tup] Yes, much of it is now history but so are many things we still prize greatly.

You can tell from posts recalling the "busy years" of passenger and freight that the "nerve center" for rural "Main Street America" was the train station. Until radio became the major source of news, local papers were all folks had to rely upon and they were delivered by rail to rural towns. And, a good number of people learned to understand coded telegraphy for the "latest" develpoments. It was sort of like the "cutting edge" of the late nineteenth century. As a kid, I was amazed to learn that Gene Autry ("King of the Cowboys") was a Telegrapher in a rural train station in Oklahoma. Will Rogers, by chance, heard him singing and playing guitar and gave him his first "break into show business" on a radio show. It all began in a "one horse town" train station. There have been countless articles on how many major business and political "deals" were consumated on trains or in train stations. Just another reminder of how the era of "Classic Trains" figured into America's past, which some would say was this Nation's "Golden Years." Well, that's enough trivia for one post.

I have a couple of appointments at the V.A. Hospital tomorrow, so I'll be scarce until Wednesday. BTW Tom, with just the few of us, perhaps a staff party would be superfluous. A day doesn't go by that we aren't toasting "this or that" any rate. How 'bout just a cyber greeting card instead? Boris and Leon aren't exactly compelling conversationalists either.[:O] Okay, hope to get in early tomorrow, until then. Happy rails.

[jdonald]

Evenin Tom & all: The usual Alex. Keith and one for yourself

Nick if you are still around the bar-Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Drive safely, I don't envy you that 5 hour drive.

To continue my ramblings about North American tank engines:
A search through "Guide to North American Steam Locomotives" by George H. Drury and published by Kalmbach Books showed the following-"The principal users of suburban tank enigines in North America were:

CNR 4-6-4-T (6)
CPR 4-6-4T (3)
CNJ 2-6-2-T (25)
" 4-6-4T (5)
NYC(B&A) 4-6-6T (5)
RDG 2-6-4-T (10)

"Suburban tank engines replaced the tender with a coal bunker and water tank carried on an extension of the locomotive frame. The extension was supported by a truck that also guided the locomotive into curves when running in reverse. The price of such convenience was limited fuel and water capacity and thus limited range."

BTW this a great book for anyone interested in steam locos built after 1900. If anyone out there doesn't have access to this book and has a question, let me know on here or by E-mail and I will try to the answer.

Bye for now-keep it on the rails

Don

[nickinwestwales]

Well good evening fellow tipplers,[4:-)]TOM-a large rum with a Starop chaser if you please,one for yourself and the customary round for the house.
Please excuse unplanned absense these past few days-duff connection between machine & wall,took until today to get replacement cable.
May I congratulate you all on a record breaking sunday pix both in quality & quantity-a marvellous way to see out the year[^]
Brevity is the name of the game tonight I fear-I was a pall-bearer at our late next door neighbours interrment this afternoon and we marked his passing with sufficient vigour that I am typing this with one eye closed in order to focus on the screen (safe journey Joe) As I have a 5 hour drive ahead of me in the A.M.,sleep is a rather higher priority than usual.
Please forgive my rudeness in not acknowledging individual postings.
The drive in question is to the In-laws, where we will be staying until Sat,thus this is likely to be my last pre-christmas posting,therefore.....

WISHING ALL CUSTOMERS & STAFF OF `OUR PLACE`,PAST, PRESENT & FUTURE, A HAPPY & PEACEFUL CHRISTMAS & A PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR-eat well,drink wisely, spare a thought for those less fortunate than ourselves.
Thank you all for your company & friendship these past eight months,I look forward to resuming our delightfully off-beat cameraderie as soon as circumstances permit
Best wishes to all,nick[C=:-)]

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Guys,

Appreciate the return to the Posting of something other than acknowledging one another - thanx passengerfan Al & barndad Doug! [tup][tup] Seems that sometimes we get into that kind of rut, and I suppose my Posts fall into the "vanilla" type communications. Have to keep in mind that we are all about Classic Trains in an adult setting called a bar 'n grill. Pretty simple concept.

Let's see, Al You're a tax guy and a real estate guy. So how does that work [?] Sell 'em property - wait 'itil they get taxed out of it - then sell it again [?] Sorry! [swg]

Doug 200 by the 20th [?] You picked the 22nd ... still have a shot!

Back in May while traveling on my solo rail round trip from Halifax to Ottawa, I met a couple of people who used to live and work in India - Missionaries. They talked quite a bit about their train travels all over the subcontinent and how "different" it was (and is) compared to what we are accustomed to in the U.S. and Canada. As they talked, I could envision people hanging on the sides of coaches, the loco's and anything else with a handle or protrusion to grasp. Also, people lighting portable cooking units INSIDE the cars to cook chickens and whatever else they brought aboard. [yeah] The word "different" comes to mind.

Al wasn't the UP City of Portland called the "yellow banana" by some [?} Thought I picked that up in my readings along the line .... Wish we could get some Pix to go along with your Streamliner series. They are surely available, just a matter of searching and Posting the URLs. Would really round out the work you've provided one and all. [tup]

Later!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[Anonymous]

Good evening Tom and friends! I'll take a bottomless draught, and kindly set-up a round for the house. Need some quarters? You can have ALL my Michigan quarters ...each and every one! Nice nostalgia add from your favorite rail line. Gotta love that beaver logo!

Nice post CM3 .. I really like the real story posts.

Well, let's see...if we're to get this place to page 200 by the 20th ....hmmm ...guess it's not gonna happen. Even with Al putting up another streamliner post (which was fine as usual) so I'll just submit another series to entertain. Here's part I:

Steam Delights of India – photos and article by Ron Johnson – Rail Classics 1/82

Himalayan train threads through mountain village town near Darjeeling


As the 1980s dawn it has been discouraging to the steam enthusiast to see one by one the great steam bastions fall, retreating to isolated pockets. It remains a comforting fact that there is still a huge steam fleet plying the rails in the Republic of India. Over 7,500 steam machines serve this rich and diverse land with 1,700 diesels and 800 electrics only gradually making their presence felt. With English being the main unifying language coupled with convenient connecting air line flights and ease of travel by rail it makes sense for the American steam buff to hot foot it over to this subcontinent.

Although standardization is making itself felt in the desire to have a modern, efficient steam roster, there is an incredible variety of motive power operating on the three basic gauges of broad (5 feet, 6 inches), meter (3 feet, 3.37 inches), and narrow (2 fett, 6 inches and 2 feet). Blessed with ample coal reserves, India has chosen a wise policy of burning the indigenous fuel in home-built steamers while gradually developing diesel and electric power.

The Indian Railways are now 127 years old. The first passenger train in India and also Asia puffed out of Bombay in 1853 over a 21-mile route to Thana with 14 cars and 400 passengers. Today the system has grown to a route mileage of over 37,000 miles, the world’s largest nationalized rail endeavor. With over 1.3 million persons employed on the Indian Railway, this works out to one in every 20 people earning their livelihood in the railroad business. For this reason, the railfan will find the local newspapers filled with rail news. Upon reading his first Indian newspaper, the author found a front page story with a photo of one of the fine streamlined Pacifics, which had derailed over a banking. It was shown being hauled back onto the rails with a huge steam crane. Staying with steam has helped to employ a vast unskilled work force in the myriad of jobs required in keeping the steam fleet active.

Coal is often loaded by hand, making good use of the vast labor market.


The Indian Railways operate approximately 12,000 trains on a daily basis, carrying about nine million passengers and ¾ of a million tons of freight. Over 50% of train haulage is steam traction in the passenger category with 29% of freight traffic in the hands of steam. It is Asia’s largest railway system and the world’s second largest under one management. (Russia boasts the largest system under government ownership).

Railways came to India with British influence and private investors providing a generous helping hand. Started in the 1840s, Indian Railways got on its feet before the political control of the Crown in 1858. It was at this time that the administration of railway development was overseen by the East India Company. Perhaps the most influential person to direct this orderly rail network was Lord Dalhousie, who as acting Governor-General was instrumental in drawing up track plans for main arteries, which still make vital links in today’s network. He recommended a system of trunk lines connecting the various large cities of Bombay, Bengal and Madras, and then fanning out into the suburbs, joining each other and serving their seaports. After much heated discussion, broad gauge was found to be suitable, partly because it would offer stability in the face of India’s noted high winds. It was soon found out that building broad gauge lines was very expensive so a new policy was begun featuring a network or meter gauge lines which would connect the broad gauge main trunks which served the major cities. Traffic in some cases was just as heavy as broad. These eventually were primarily situated in the southern, western, and northern portions of India. Narrow gauge systems were concentrated in the exceptionally rural areas in the central part of India, although narrow gauge lines are scattered to a certain extent all over the subcontinent connecting with meter and broad gauge lines.

The Government of India encouraged outside investment in railways because it had neither the resources or expertise to accompli***he task on its own. Private companies were allowed to build on free land with a guaranteed return of fie percent on their investments for the next 25 years. It was agreed that these private companies would share the surplus profits with the Government on a half-yearly basis after the guaranteed interest had been met. After the 25 years were up, the railways would be sold back to the government. Unfortunately the cost of construction was so high that profits were almost nil along with the guaranteed interest being so high that the Government was put in an unfavorable condition. This forced the Government to buy the lines long before the 25 years were up.

By 1880 all the major cities were linked by rail. As 1920 began, the Government found itself owning 73 percent of all the railways. A continuing bone of contention was the fact the management of the lines continues to be in the hands of private companies retaining territorial names with the board of directors located in London. By 1924 the Government took over the management of the companies as well, with railway finance separate from general finance. With the managerial house in order, the railways began to flourish. New lines were built and a tremendous amount of money was poured into renewal and upgrading of rolling stock and roadbed.

In the days of British rule there were two basic standard designs of steam locomotives. One which was prevalent in the first part of this century before WWI was the British Engineering Standards Association (BESA). Graceful 4-4-0s handled the fst goods and passenger services along with 0-6-0s and 2-8-0s for general traffic and 2-6-4Ts and 2-8-2ts for suburban passenger service. The 4-4-0 design has entirely disappeared from India and most of the world, but still may be found in some numbers handling regular passenger duties in Pakistan. Today many of the other earlier classes have been withdrawn from service. After WWI and WWII, locomotives were required to burn coal of inferior quality, requiring larger fireboxes and therefore a new set of designs were inaugurated according to Indian Railway Standards. These included 4-6-0s and entirely new wheel arrangements of 4-6-2s and 2-8-2s. Non-standard Garret types lasted into recent times on the Bengal-Nagpur Railway on the Assam hill section, but were never very popular.

[:I] humbly submitted [:I]

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house. Getting ready for tax season so am able to spend less time visiting the forum. Tax season means seven days a week beginning in January and not letting up until April.
Enjoyed the critter photos yesterday and all of the others as well. Wish I had photos to contribute.

PASSENGERFAN AL'S STREAMLINER CORNER # 30

CITY OF PORTLAND UP-C&NW trains 105-106 June 6, 1935 Chicago - Portland 5-round trips monthly 39 hours 45 minutes each way 2,272 miles each way.

Consist as built but not as entered scheduled service.

M-10001 Articulated Turret Cab 900 HP Diesel Passenger Power Unit
12200 Articulated Auxiliary Power 30' Railway Post Office Baggage Car
E.H. HARRIMAN Articulated 10-Section 1-Compartment 1-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
ABRAHAM LINCOLN Articulated 10-Section 1-Compartment 1-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
OREGON TRAIL Articulated 8-Section 1-Compartment 1-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
10402 Articulated 54-Revenue Seat Coach Buffet Blind End Observation

The above was the way the as built consist was displayed at the Chicago Century of Progress Fair.

First of the famous long distance CITY Streamliners to enter scheduled service the CITY OF PORTLAND as built was a six car articulatted streamliner. It was the first streaml;ined train to provide overnight sleeping accommodations for passengers as well as coach seating.
Before entering schedulked service the train became a seven car articulated streamliner with car modifications and the power unit was stretched in length and a 1,200 hp diesel was installed.

CONSISTR that entered scheduled service

M-10001 Articulated Turret Cab 1,200 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit
12200 Articulated Baggage 12 Crew Dormitory Car
10300 Articulated 30-Seat Dining 10-Seat Lounge Car
OVERLAND TRAIL Articulated 8-Section 1-Compartment 1-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
ABRAHAM LINCOLN Articulated 10-Section 1-Compartment 1-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
OREGON TRAIL Articulated 8-Section 1-Compartment 1-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
10402 Articulated 54-Revenue Seat Coach Buffet Blind End Observation

The above CITY OF PORTLAND operated a weekly round trip beginning June 6, 1935 until July 26, 1935. It was then extensively remodeled to correct its shortcomings and reentered service February 26, 1936 and operated until March 27, 1939 when it was replaced by a newer streamlined CITY OF PORTLAND train set.
The train was then stored at Omaha with some parts including the engine removed for further use and the remains of the first CITY OF PORTLAND was scrapped in Omaha in April 1941.

TTFN AL

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #46

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Canadian Pacific (CP) from a 1949 advertisement in my personal collection.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Enjoy a world of service . . . go
Canadian Pacific

Miles and miles of solid
comfort . . . that’s the vast Canadian
Pacific Railway network. East or
West across Canada . . . enjoy
every service on smooth rolling Canadian
Pacific trains! Stop over at luxurious
Canadian Pacific hotels like the
Chateau Lake Louise in the Canadian
Rockies.

. . . . . Superb service! Such comfort . . .
. . . . . aboard sleek Canadian Pacific
. . . . . Princess ships, sailing the Inside
. . . . . Passage to Alaska and the Yukon.
. . . . . Canadian Pacific White Empress
. . . . . ships will sail you to Europe. Soon,
. . . . . Canadian Pacific will fly you to
. . . . . Hawaii, Fiji, New Zealand,
. . . . . Australia, and latger – the Orient!

There’s no place like Eastern
Canada for vacation fun! And you
can’t beat hospitable Canadian
Pacific hotels like Digby Pines in
Nova Scotia for gracious service!
Or visit The Algonquin in New
Brunswick. (These are two of
Nineteen Canadian Pacific hotels
And lodges across Canada!)

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Canadian Pacific . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

SPANS THE WORLD – Railways – Steamships – Air Lines – Hotels – Communications – Express


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[red p]

Tom hey i was one a train for 12 hours, I was hungry! Couldnt wait any longer.
P

[siberianmo]

Mornin’ Gents!

On this date in 1956, Seaman Apprentice – yours truly – “graduated” from 13 weeks of USCG boot camp in Cape May, NJ. It was a bright, sunny and very cold day when “Charlie Company” marched to the parade grounds, stood at parade rest, and listened to the “welcome to the Coast Guard” speeches on that day 49 years ago. Recruit training has been trimmed down over the years, but I recall that those 13 weeks were nothing to “write home about.” The meek surely were NOT intended to inherit the USCG! [swg]

To the acknowledgments:

barndad Doug
Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 05:24:51

When it comes to freight trains, I just love the caboose. Hated to see ‘em go, no matter what the rationale. To this day the end of a freight train just doesn’t look right to me without one. Your article regarding the history of the caboose really fits in quite well with our theme and I appreciate it – thanx! [tup][tup][tup] You really Posted some fine stuff yesterday and you’ll have to go some to top those. Well, you’ve got until January 8th to do it! [swg] By the way, that wasn’t my hand – but nice try! [swg]

wanswheel Mike
Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 06:22:03

Your info on Arlo Guthrie kinda makes me want to reconsider my “attitude” about the man. Nice work – appreciate the URL also. [tup] Your efforts with the URLs on Sunday also added to the success of the our Final Sunday Photo Posting Day! for 2005. [tup][tup]

Theodorebear
Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 07:00:30

When Pete and I arranged this last trip of ours to KCity, the motiviation was to get those pix for YOU of the Jones Train. You can thank Pete for the extra effort, for the train was only supposed to discharge passengers, go through the wye for turnaround, pick up eastbound passengers and depart post haste. Pete got off the train knowing that we had a rather short fuse – less than 15 minutes, if that. As I’ve indicated previously, I remained aboard. So those pix that he took were all rushed, but he did the job, didn’t he [?] [tup][tup][tup] for Pete!

I will leave any staff Christmas Party up to you, Rob & Nick for planning and carrying out. [swg] As boss, I get to pay for it – what a benefit!

jdonald Don
Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 08:35:04

Glad you got those descriptions Posted and we appreciate your pix for our Sunday Photo Posting Day! “Part of a cowboy …..” really [?] Hmmmmm, Tex the Armadillo may bite, but he’s not into meat eating. Are you certain about those droppings – and how would you know [?] [swg] The entire boot [?] Well, now that is of concern – or should be. To be continued ….

coalminer3 CM3
Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 10:09:05

Ole Herr Wurlitzer der Juke has been spittin’ out the tunes and is in dire need of “feeding,” so your quarters came just in time. Somehow, some way those quarters in the pickled pig’s feet jar (which by the by was supposed to be given an appropriate name in honor of the man who keeps it filled! – but [yeah] who reads[?]) keep dwindlin’ down to a precious few.

I wasn’t a great Pogo reader and in fact, was probably spending lots of time at sea or when ashore, standing 12 hour watches in a Rescue Coordination Center and sleeping during my off time. So, reading newspapers was restricted to headlines and sports. Don’t recall that tune at all.

As an old key pounder from way back, my “code” was the international Morse code of dots and dashes, whereas the railroad version was more clicks and clacks, not the same. Nonetheless, I enjoyed the information – enlightening, educational and always entertaining. [tup][tup]

December 29th is approaching. No alternative date and time means we celebrate your Birthday without you. C’mon, this can’t be that difficult …….[swg]

ftwNSengineer P
Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 12:00:49

Other than to say nice to see ya again, if you ain’t buyin’ we can’t stay open! We could arrange for you to send an allotment to our bank account at the Second National Bank of Mentor Village if you prefer. [swg] By the by, isn’t that a bit rude to tell us that you stopped at Mac Grease rather than enjoy our bill of fare [?] Hmmmmm, I beginning to wonder if you are one of us or one of them …..

Glad you liked the pix from yesterday – lots of effort goes into ensuring that our guys get some enjoyment in a different format than the other 6 days of the week.


Later, Gents!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[red p]

Morning Tom, nothing for me thanks, I stopped off at the mcdonalds drive thru on my way over.
The pictures look great,speaking of which as I was coming home this morning I saw Penn Central covered hopper that was unpainted. I wish I could have gotten a picture of it.

Wanswheel
interesting comment about Arlo. My grandfather worked for the NKP back in the days of steam and was coupled up on the job one day (a horrible way to go). His name was George Guthrie he had a brother Jack Guthrie that also worked for the railroad. Jack was able to finish out his full career.
P

[coalminer3]

Good Morning Barkeep and All assembled: Coffee, please; round for the house; and $ for the jukebox. This a.m. let's play "Deck Us All With Boston Charlie." That oughta wake up a few of the "old heads" who remember the old Pogo strips from years past.

A nice mix of posts and pictures from all points today. I was interested in seeing the pictures of the PRR I1 and the DL&W caboose and NKP cab in Hamburg, NY. The items in question reside behind the old Erie depot in Hamburg along with a fair amount of passenger cars, etc - some the worse for wear. There used to be a better than average hobby shop in the depot, but the owner retired a few yrs. back. The track through there is still active and if you hit it right you can see various kinds of ALCO power in all it's smoking, snorting glory.

My, My they have done a fine job with the Kansas City Union Station. I am glad they got to it in time.

Interesting posts on telegraph. IIRC, there is a book out there titled the Victorian Internet. There is also another one abt. female telegraph operators titled My Sisters Telegraphic (No Boris, NOT telepathic or telegenic). Telepgraphers were, of course, the first to know what was happening, especially in small towns.

A few yrs. back I was visiting a friend who was a dispatcher for the C&O. They used 19's and other train orders on many of the coal branches around here and it was always interesting to watch him wheel and deal to make sure that various trains got to and from where they were supposed to go without jackpoting somewhere. They also used radio within yard limits which added another dimension to activity (all of this, including the yard office and what they called the mallet house is gone now). As did all of these old heads, he took his job seriously and rarely, if ever, smiled about anything.

Anyway, he had hired on in about 1943 and worked on the main line between Hinton and Alleghany; a busy and rugged stretch of railroad. We got talking about communications and train orders and I asked him if he had used telegraph for dispatching and he said, "Oh, hell, yes." Then he reached into a desk drawer and unearthed a key. He took a couple of puffs on his pipe and said very quietly, "This is my key," and proceeded to give a demonstration of how it used to be done. All I can say is he was fast. He said when he finished, "Not bad for something I haven't used in years." Then he put the key away and closed the drawer. It was one of the few times I ever saw him smile. It was like a trip into a time machine and something I am glad I got to see and hear about.

One more story regarding this esteemed gentleman. There was and always has been a rivalry between road crew and dispatchers. One time, a crew came off a coal train from Quinnimont. They wree done for the day and getting ready to quit, and one of the brakemen decided to harass the dispatcher. He looked at the dispatcher and said to him, "A monkey could dispatch trains."

Long silence followed; my friend relit his pipe and looked over his wire rims at the brakeman and, without cracking a smile said, "There's one thing you're forgetting - you have to be smarter than the monkey."

work safe

[siberianmo]

All of our regulars know about the Birthday Watch List .... however, it needs to be posted repeatedly, just as a reminder regarding who is coming up next for the Birthday Bash ......

2005 BIRTHDAY WATCH LIST (rev. Sep 16th):

February 2nd (Kevin – 49)
March 5th (Nick – 45)
April 18 (Al - 63)
May 18th (Tom - 67)
May 27th (Dave - 46)
June 24th (Dan - 43)
July 15th (*** – 65)
July 25th (Chris - 51)
July 30th (Russell – 34)
August 16th (Ted - 67)
September 8th (Rob - 34)
December 29th (CM3) – 59 Next up! Awaiting date & time from CM3!

Not on the list [?] Send me an Email with your birth date (month-day-year).
Corrections too!

Names of those in The Legion of the Lost will be dropped in 2006.

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!



NOTE for all: Check the SUMMARIES