Great films Mr. Jones, thanks for posting them!
And thanks for the "Why no back-to-back running?" explaination Mod-Man, you saved me the trouble of asking.
The nose is nowhere near as bulbous in line as it appears in some of those photographs, including at least two in the YouTube pastiche that are displaying in 'stretch' aspect ratio to common effect.
The 'streamliner' corrugated siding around the windows is not metal fluting, as on passenger cars: it is vent grilles. As I recall there was a lot of optional venting, much of it made to be blocked off in the wintertime.
You would not run these back-to-back because the condensers would interfere with each other if you did. There was a relatively large swept area back there. My HO scale models have a fun little detail: all the vertical louvers move in sync when you push them with a toothpick!
I so wish that the UP Steam Turbine Sisters was a success but unfortunately they were another disappointment of the magic year 1939. The only thing I don't like about them is that they had been designed to operate together "elephant style", nose to tail instead of tail to tail like the Baldwin DR-12-8-1500/2. The brass train model of them is beautiful, especially after some lighting effect enhancement, but the "gigantic" nose of E3s and the UP Steam Turbine Sisters was not for everyone.
Jones 3D Modeling Club https://www.youtube.com/Jones3DModelingClub
The problem is that they were successors to E3s in the way the Niagaras could be competitive with E7s. All that length and complexity for only 2500hp a unit, too. Much the same economics that killed the 6000hp modular Essl Baldwin of about the same era was the real doom of this idea... as would be the case really for any steam/turbine electric.
What put the nail in the operational coffin was the obligate condensing. This was a 1500psi design with an exhaust plenum many times the turbine size and (as with the ACE 3000) any time there was a glitch in the function or the recirculation, there was likely to be Confusion and Delay in the offing. I suspect winter on the GN was far kinder to the shuttered arrangement, in addition to whatever refinements to the machinery were made...
Added a bit more . Seems they were hopeful and touted this as the successor to Diesels!
Interesting reading Vince! I suppose those units were just a little too "oddball" for railroad management of the time to get any acceptance. And it could be with dieselization coming over the horizon they may have figured "If we're going to burn oil for a fuel, it might as well be in the most efficient way possible."
Just another interesting "might have been."
Firelock/Wayne-- I believe the Rutland baggage car is at Steamtown.
As for the UP steam turbines here's a bit of their story. It seems to indicate they preformed well at the end for the Great Northern. It does seem a bit vague and mysterious why they would be discarded in the middle of a war though.
This is kind of cool though... " It There was one more locomotive superficially near-similar to M-10003-10006 but using an entirely different source of power. For two one-month periods in 1939, UP operated a two-unit, 5,000-horsepower steam turbine-electric locomotive built by General Electric. It was completed in December 1938 and delivered to UP at Omaha, Neb., on April 3, 1939. Union Pacific historians William Kratville and Harold Ranks described the promise of the pair, writing that the steam turbines "were lauded as replacement to steam—successor of diesels."
completed in December 1938 and delivered to UP at Omaha, Neb., on April 3, 1939. Union Pacific historians William Kratville and Harold Ranks described the promise of the pair, writing that the steam turbines "were lauded as Numbered UP 1 and 2, the two steam turbine units each generated 2,500 horsepower, and burned oil to produce the steam for the units' turbines. Built by GE under contract to Union Pacific, they were the first railway turbine locomotives built in North America. They also represented GE's only attempt at steam-powered locomotives. The two locomotives were under construction during most of two years, with a final built date of December 1938, although a photograph dated December 24, 1937, shows them about 95 percent completed. Both units were tested extensively on GE's test track at its Erie (Pa.) plant until final road testing, which took place on New York Central from January through March 1939.
The two locomotives worked their way to Council Bluffs, Iowa, over NYC and Chicago & North Western, and as noted, were delivered to UP on April 3, 1939. During April, they operated in several test and publicity trains between Cheyenne and Laramie, Wyo., between Cheyenne and Denver, and from Cheyenne to Salt Lake City and Los Angeles. They were in Los Angeles for the grand opening of the new Los Angeles Union Passenger Terminal. They returned to Omaha and were displayed near that city's downtown on April 27, 28, and 29, 1939, during the world premiere of Cecil B. DeMille's epic film "Union Pacific" on April 28. During the first two weeks of May 1939, they completed a whirlwind movie promotion tour of the eastern states for Paramount Studios, including an exhibition for President Franklin D. Roosevelt. They returned to UP and made several trips as separate units on passenger trains between Omaha and Denver. In early June, they were reunited and used to take the Paramount movie special back to Los Angeles, after which they returned to Omaha.
Despite all of that high-profile activity, the tests had shown that the steam turbine concept was not quite ready for railroad service, due mostly to the units' low reliability and increased maintenance. Several minor failures had occurred, and at least one major road failure, in which a 2800-class Pacific pulled the pair and their train from Colorado into Omaha. Simply put, the two units were unsuccessful during UP's tests in long-haul service and never entered regular revenue service.
The locomotives were returned to General Electric on June 17, 1939, via Chicago. Representatives from both UP and GE continued to work at improving the units' reliability, with cold-weather tests taking place on New York Central. A February 1941 report by a UP staff engineer was positive in its contents, but by the end of 1941, it was obvious to UP that the design was not what it wanted. On December 18, 1941, UP President William Jeffers notified GE that the railroad had no further interest in the project. After UP pulled out of the project, the units were repainted dark gray and renumbered to GE 1 and 2. During 1943, they were leased to Great Northern Railway for nearly a year for wartime short-haul freight service in Washington, performing without major failure. By late 1943, they were returned to GE and retired.
Interesting photos there, all with a story.
Photo 1. Well, we all know that steam turbine turned out to be a flop, for what reasons I don't know, maybe Overmod can tell us.
Photo 2. Oh yeah, the Santa Fe was renowned for its good eats, all under the supervision of the Fred Harvey organization. It kepts passengers coming back time and time again, until they stopped coming.
Photo 3. Remember what I've said about "If it looks good it'll run good?" One picture's worth a thousand words, that thing looks just plain dumb!
Photo 4. Those little Pennsy 0-4-0's were quite the workhorses! Built for use around industries and warehouse districts with tight confines they more than got the job done. I wouldn't mind having one to play with myself!
Photo 5. I wonder who won that drag race? I'm betting on the T-1!
Photo 6. That's a puzzler. I suspect one of those Camels must be dead-in-tow.
Photo 7. Looks like there's a steam tender in front. I wonder if that's at a museum site? Someone needs to get busy with a can of Rustoleum at any rate.
Photo 8. The Washington Post electro-mechanical scoreboard. Irony of ironys, if what I've read is true 100 years after that photo was taken the only thing keeping the Washington Post's printed edition alive is the sports section. The same goes for a lot of other newspapers.
For #1, all three claims are true. The "Turbomotives" used a power plant style water tube boiler, had dynamic brakes where the resistors were used to heat the boiler and were equipped with M.U. controls.
For #3, the 2-10-10-2's were notorious for steam leaks.N.B. THey starred in an installment of the "Hazards of Helen" serial, with this being covered in the June 1967 Trains.
We've pretty much had that 30-30-30 since last Monday and for the foreseeable next 10 days. Worse we received a mountain of snow....just a nasty winter, oops I mean global warming/climate change.
Meanwhile : Comments are very welcome .. hope Overmod has something to say about #1
1) Now that's some claim(s) ... are they stretching it a bit here?
#2 This looks like my kitchen over Christmas but without the help. That's a lot of food. Actually a lot to look at here... 2 fellas from the shop working on the car, the E unit, heavyweights, the famous bridge and the trains marker .. Santa Fe was renown for its fine food offerings.
3) Sticking with Santa Fe... we've been discussing their shortlived but rather infamous brush with articulation. Big beast .. did not pan out very well.
4) You know you can crow about the big stuff, the experimental locos, and the glamour of Pennsy forever but this little fella is pretty darn spiffy. It is reminiscent of a tug-boat to me. Tough old salty.
5) And the race is on. Pride on the outside, heartache on the inside and the winner loses all, which sadly they did.
6) NYO&W running Camelbacks back to back. Say that fast 7 times. An interesting train though.
7) If only this baggage car came with an account of its many journeys. At one time it was new and a source of company pride.
8) Not railroad but interesting in a Classic sense. An electro-mechanical scoreboard 1912 for baseball games in Washington, DC.
NDGMinus 30 w the wind has to be experienced.
Not at all far from the American 30-30-30 rule.
If it's 30 below zero (F) and the wind is blowing 30mph, human flesh freezes solid in 30 seconds...
Tough, tough railroading on grain spotters back then. Work every little town for 100+ miles, usually spotting multiple elevators or spurs at each one. Lots of walking over the top in terrible weather, darkness or both, and all the handbrakes are stemwinders. Only a small oil lantern to see by, and woe betide the Brakeman who spotted the cars on the wrong side of the elevator. The engine would have to be watered more than once enroute, and possibly coaled as well if the train was heavy.
Could take 12+ hours to make the run. On 60 lb rail atop untreated ties and no ballast worth speaking of, this being the Canadian Northern, a true pioneer road that spared every possible expense.
Amazing the transformation that has taken place in 30 years, the Canadian prairie has gone from a wild plain full of Bison, Elk, Wolves and Grizzly Bears, to neat grids of farmland as far as the eye can see. The only Natives left are now on reserves, and the memories of Riel's Rebellion (the last war fought on Canadian soil) are still fresh.
But it would be magical indeed to step back in time for a day, to see our modern world rising from the old. Savour the smell of prairie coal smoke (watch out for all the cinders!) and watch that pioneer engine struggle to lift its train. Maybe it's a mixed, with a combine and caboose on the tail end, and we can hitch a ride to Kindersley.
I hope Eaton's used soft paper in their catalogues....
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Here's another one for the Dude and hopefully everyone else. A picture anyone can find magical in its own way. The Canadian Northern 111 years ago, in Zealandia, Saskatchewan. 4 large grain elevators visible and rows of box cars. Not sure what the loco is but maybe a 4-4-0 or a Mogul.
Wouldn't it be something to be trackside and watch the grain rush happen back then.
Even the name Zealandia seems a bit magical.
Population in 2016...80 souls
Notable: Aldon Wilkie, from Zealandia, was a Major League Pitcher for the Pittsburgh Pirates.
Today:
Main Street
Yes, I see that now.
http://www.apraarchives.net/collection/index.php/Detail/objects/9489#
The date is probably correct, and that photo was taken at Cromdale, judging from the other stuff I can see in the background in the higher resolution image.
73 was saved from scrap in 1964 and first steamed in 1967. So instead of my earlier speculation that this was her last time being steamed, it might be the first time after being preserved.
SD70DUDE--- The photo says Cromdale Nov 11,1967 but the file contains errors.
I sent you an 2 email's with a copy and links.
CSSHEGEWISCHAlso consider that El Paso is closer to San Diego than it is to Houston.
And if I remember correctly, El Paso is further away than Chicago is to Houston...
Miningman Well I meant that for our US cousins. You're a lot closer than Memphis or New Orleans or the Big Apple. Heres a bonus picture for you.
Well I meant that for our US cousins. You're a lot closer than Memphis or New Orleans or the Big Apple.
Heres a bonus picture for you.
I've been thinking a lot about this photo, which I have not seen before, and in the absence of other information I believe it was taken on the curve at the east end of our current Museum trackage, sometime after 1979 based on the fact that the engine is facing east. The other equipment appears to be one of our outfit cars and CN combine 7379. We have never had a wye or turntable, and 73 initially faced west when our equipment was moved to the site in 1976, and the only opportunity for her to be turned would have been when she was used in the Northern Alberta Railway's 50th anniversary train during the summer of 1979.
73 was not steamed while on that train due to boiler problems that have yet to be repaired. Sometime after returning to the Museum 73 was test fired in an attempt to diagnose the boiler problems. During that test something (probably a tube) inside the firebox or boiler burst, and it is very lucky that no one in the cab was seriously injured.
So, this photo may actually be from the last day that 73 was hot, if those clouds in the photo are indeed steam and not just smudges.
Also consider that El Paso is closer to San Diego than it is to Houston.
NDG FWIW. CP 4105 heading East to Lethbridge on Viaduct. https://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=392814 CP 4105 had S/G and Water Tank, Filler in Skirt, until Scrapped. https://farm2.static.flickr.com/1900/44197657461_d2ff8302d2_b.jpg Push Button on Throttle end, when depressed, allowed Handle to be moved one more Notch to ' Shut Down ' Position. At Base Pier 8 from East End, downstream side, a 39 foot rail protrudes from ground. Apparently it was dropped during Construction and lanced into ground. Watch out for Rattlesnakes and Cactus!!. Time 1:40. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9wlS8SrZ3Y Mine Headframe background in video, here, centre. Viaduct to right. https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.6992683,-112.8762362,1232m/data=!3m1!1e3 House w Snake, Here. https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.7008817,-112.8907809,524m/data=!3m1!1e3 Mine Headframe Snake Video. https://www.galtmuseum.com/articles/2012/02/55-years-since-galt-8-closed.html Lethbridge Streetcar Carbody. Galt Museum. https://www.galtmuseum.com/articles/the-end-of-the-line Thank You. Both Buffalo and Detroit have changed in the last 50 years.
Thank You.
Both Buffalo and Detroit have changed in the last 50 years.
It is very easy to forget that Canada has deserts. And venomous snakes!
EMD units with the barrel control stand had the same kind of throttle handle. On modern units you pull out on the handle and then you are able to push it past idle to the shutdown position. Doing so will shut down all the engines in a consist if the jumper cables are connected.
Miningman 1) This is out where SD70DUDE lives. The following info was written along with the picture in 2009. Is this still true ? Not only is it the world’s longest and highest railway trestle, but it may be the toughest, too. There are no restrictions on the length or weight of the mile-long freight trains that roll across the Lethbridge Viaduct a dozen times a day, even though the bridge was built 1907-09.
1) This is out where SD70DUDE lives.
The following info was written along with the picture in 2009. Is this still true ?
Not only is it the world’s longest and highest railway trestle, but it may be the toughest, too. There are no restrictions on the length or weight of the mile-long freight trains that roll across the Lethbridge Viaduct a dozen times a day, even though the bridge was built 1907-09.
Right Province, but multiple other forum members are closer than I by hundreds of kilometres (Alberta's a really big place). It would actually be faster for me to drive to Saskatoon than to Lethbridge.
The info looks correct to me, those early 1900s-vintage steel railway bridges are quite overbuilt, able to handle loads far in excess of what existed when they were built.
Great stories from NDG and Bruce.
Quickly from memory:
Lethbridge Viaduct is the "highest-longest" bridge of that type in the world. There are higher bridges or longer bridges. I never knew who figured that stuff out.
40 feet more than a mile long and 315 feet high. Dead straight so no permanent slow order.
Just west of former Lethbridge Station. WB passenger trains would lift from the station and when the tail end cleared the bridge 60 MPH was showing on the speedometer.
It has been said train crew men would spend their entire careers going over that bridge and not actually look down.
IMHO there are no good pictures of the bridge taken from the ground, as it is simply too big. When TRAINS used to run their photo contests, one fellow entered a picture taken from a helicopter. That is really the only way to show a train on the bridge and do it justice.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
Thank you NDG. Had no idea Lethbridge had Streetcars. Quite a surprise.
More pics from the Rock Island fan trip : these from Mike
Penny-- You got a point there. Maybe they missed out on a business opportunity. You've heard of the 'walk of shame' or the 'perp walk', well this could be the 'Train of travesties' and the 'perp express'.
Anyway in the photo they stopped for burgers and sandwichs providing a good photo opportunity.
M636C--- Good eye! The fluting along the top looks ridiculous. What a faux pas that was. Cringeworthy.
Also I cannot even imagine the utter collapse of such an important and magical crossroads for switching, servicing and transfer of through passenger trains and yet collapse in did. It degraded into contempt. Could you imagine explaining that to someone in 1948, then to another generation in 2008. I think you would come across as the court jester in medieval times. To sever the walkway to the platforms is way beyond contempt. Ludicrous. Yet here we are.
Miningman3) Rock Island fan trip using WWII troop carriers. You know the new look 'Rock' wasn't a bad image at all.
That pic puts me in the mind of something other than a fan trip. It looks more like it was headed for THE rock with inmates rather than railfans. Not quite the fan trip consist we've come to expect! Still, it would have been very interresting to ride in those cars!
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Ah, yes, "Indian Canoe." My wife and children slept in that car one night as we went from Albuquerque to Chicago in 1973. It wasn't crowded at all.
Johnny
The Santa Fe's twelve "Indian" plan 4100B 24 duplex roomette sleepers were initially used on the "Chief" and secondary trains for overnight runs such as between Chicago and Kansas City. Built in 1947, they never really found a niche in Santa Fe's system. All twelve were rebuilt in 1964 into 11 Double Bedroom cars, keeping their names. Some of the work may have been done by Santa Fe at Topeka - unusual for Pullman-operated equipment, giving them a new plan number 6007A. Assigned to the Super Chief, eleven of them ended up in the Amtrak fleet. Not among the fleet converted to HEP, they became surplus when the Superliners arrived. Some of them ended up with Ringling Brothers.
Pullman's own Duplex Roomette I (later "L.S. Hungerford", NdeM "Paricutin") and CN's "I" series built by CCF make up all of the rest.
The near end of the Buffalo Central Terminal concourse was removed to make room for trilevel auto racks, but the opening works just fine for double-stacks.
There is a reasonably good book by Alex Johnston that describes construction of the Lethbridge Viaduct. The basic design is by the guy who designed the Spiral Tunnel arrangement, and the consulting engineer was one of the designers of the Starue of Liberty framing, and a chief critic of the first Quebec Bridge fiasco.
Worth reading (and seeing pictures of!) the erection-traveler setup, and compare this with the construction of the Kinzua viaduct. You may better understand the multiple-level platform arrangement to construct the bents if you appreciate the considerable winds this location has. Compare this with the equipment designed only about a quarter-century earlier to speed construction of elevated railroads in New York.
I cannot find a Cooper rating for this bridge but I doubt there is any practical restriction for diesels that would pose a critical restriction, or a reason to restrict speed for structural more than crosswind-related reasons.
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter