daveklepper So......was it Dixie something? Or something Dixie?
So......was it Dixie something? Or something Dixie?
That's the nature of my original question....
This is fun because most of the print references (and few if any Internet ones I've seen) even hint at this.
FEC had an employee contest to name the Jacksonville-Miami train (that became named the Henry M Flagler). But Cox notes that the etched nameplates for that name were only taken off when the power started being used on the "Dixie Flagler" - it seemed strange to me that he'd mention the contest but not the 'working title' of the service. "Dixieland" of course was only applied to the train in 1954, with sleepers.
I've seen references to "Chicago-Miami Streamliner" as what may be an ETT name for the train -- could that be what they used as a placeholder in 1940?
Where's Mike and his period newspaper access when we need it??
daveklepper More guesses, Dixie Special, Dixieland Special?
More guesses, Dixie Special, Dixieland Special?
No and no....it is true that for most of the 20th Century the Dixie Route utilized the word "Dixie" in their name trains.
daveklepper Just a guess, Miami Flagler or Florida Flagler?
Just a guess, Miami Flagler or Florida Flagler?
No and no...
daveklepper It was renamed the Dixieland before it was discontinued. Could this also have been its initial name?
It was renamed the Dixieland before it was discontinued. Could this also have been its initial name?
Nope. When the Dixie Flagler started the Dixieland was a winter season train.
daveklepper The Henry M. Flagler
The Henry M. Flagler
Nope. The name Henry M Flagler was utilized when the FEC consist was used in Jacksonville-Miami service. When it was announced that the consist would be used as the Dixie Route's contribution to the new Chicago-Miami coach service, it was introduced under a different name. Im looking for that name. As I stated in my original question, the name Dixie Flagler was introduced near its inaugural run, so the name I'm looking for existed only for a new months.
When the Chicago-Miami coach streamliners were announced in mid-1940, the FEC train set that operated as the Jacksonville-Miami Henry M. Flagler was to be repurposed as the Dixie Route's contribution to this new service. As the name Dixie Flagler was applied right before the trains inauguration, what was the original name of this train as it was announced a few months earlier?
wanswheel Myron, with either of those you win. I had wrongly believed William K. Vanderbilt's description of a train inaugurated on Sept. 29, 1929.
Myron, with either of those you win. I had wrongly believed William K. Vanderbilt's description of a train inaugurated on Sept. 29, 1929.
I guess NYC's publicity department didn't do their due dillgence when they boasted that the Commodore was the first train named after an individual. Most likely, the naming of a major NYC train the Commodore Vanderbilt signaled to the rest of the industry that this type of nomenclature was legitimate and acceptable, for about this time and beyond a slew of trains named after individuals were established.
New question coming up in a day or so...
wanswheel What train was the first to be named for an individual?
What train was the first to be named for an individual?
I'm going to offer two possibilities:
Flagler Limited - Jacksonville-Miami - FEC (established around May 1925)
OR
De Witt Clinton - Detroit-Buffalo - MC (established around early-mid 1926)
Myron Bilas
That's it, the "17th Street Wreck."
1262 was actually 1282.
OK, nobody liked that one.
How about this - describe the wreck in this song: http://cylinders.library.ucsb.edu/download_file.php?param1=7000¶m2=7360
Where and when did the longest train of pine lumber ever run in California operate? (Extra points for the number of cars involved, and the locomotive type)
RME, you're up!
Next?
Rutland's four 4-8-2's (90-93) were among the lightest built, completed in 1946 by Alco. B&O built 10 more 4-8-2s in 1947 and 1948 at Mt. Clare shops - new frames, who knows where the rest of the parts came from.
Rutland's Mountains were effectively retired with the 1953 strike that also ended passenger service. One 2-8-2 lasted a while longer as a stationary boiler at Rutland.
rcdryeThese 4 post WWII Alco-built engines were the last commercially built versions of a major dual-service type, but were the smallest and lightest of this type in the USA. Ten more of this wheel arrangement were built in a class 1's shop in the two years after these were delivered.
Surely you mean REbuilt, if you mean the streamlined class K2s. (Not 4-8-4s, Dave, but looked a LOT like them...)
The four Alco locomotives had to be Rutland's (from 1946).
Were not the last 4-8-4's built in the USA actually built for Mexico? And these were the smallest and lightest of the type built in the USA, as well as the last steam built new for the NdeM. And after they were built, the Reading built its 4-8-4 T1's in its own shops, which were the last 4-8-4's built in the USA.
It goes without saying that these were also the road's last steam engines.
Terrific articles Wanswheel...answers all my questions on this. What a great read and all stuff I did not know about. A real find.
Now I got myself a day behind in packing! I'm too old for this packing nonsense.
File to enlarge map http://maps.bpl.org/download?image=06_01_011518&full=1
Significance of the big Frisco railroad merger, NY Times May 24, 1903
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9807EFDE1639E433A25757C2A9639C946297D6CF
B.F. Yoakum in charge, NY Times, NY Times, Dec. 8, 1905
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9905E7DC113AE733A2575BC0A9649D946497D6CF
Stories of friction in Rock Island, NY Times, Nov. 21, 1909
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9C0DE4DC143EE033A25752C2A9679D946897D6CF
Rock Island to let go the Frisco Line, NY Times, Nov. 27, 1909
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9F01E5DD1239E733A25754C2A9679D946897D6CF
Rock Island sells the Frisco Line, NY Times, Dec. 2, 1909
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9D05E0D81630E733A25751C0A9649D946897D6CF
These 4 post WWII Alco-built engines were the last commercially built versions of a major dual-service type, but were the smallest and lightest of this type in the USA. Ten more of this wheel arrangement were built in a class 1's shop in the two years after these were delivered.
The Frisco-Rock Island-Chicago & Eastern Illinois combination wasn't a merger, but a stock arrangement that somehow skirted the Sherman Anti-trust Act. When SL-SF went bankrupt in 1913 following some years of low traffic (Frisco's traditional western outlet, the AT&SF, was aggressively upgrading its own lines) the receivership and reorganization ended the combination. Frisco did reasonably well on its own, lasting until the 1980 merger with Burlington Northern - the same year the Rock Island was abandoned.
Just to get back to Yoakum for a second....under his leadership the Frisco grew iin size enormously and then allied itself by combining with the Rock Island to form a 19,000 mile system the largest at the time. In the editorial posted by Wanswheel it is said that Yoakum "loomed over" Gould, Harriman and even Hill! Wall Street referred to the "Yoakum Lines". Seems to me we have not heard enough about this fellow. Also I would mention that the Frisco itself has to be one of the most overlooked lines by railfans. Locals and enthusiasts may disagree but a railroad of this importance never gets the coverage of SP, UP, and so on. This railroad was the heart of America!
Does anyone out there know what happened to the Frisco- Rock Island combined lines? That sounds like a real winner. History sure did not go that way. So what happened?
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