This was a real doozie until I read the question carefully. If you'll allow Washington DC as a capital it's a little more forgiving. Four capitals turned out to be fairly easy.
The only one I could come up with that works with only state capitals was the 1948 Texas Eagle when it briefly ran from New York. Trenton, Harrisburg, Columbus, Indianapolis, Little Rock (and Austin).
If I can use DC then I get:
Silver Comet Trenton DC Richmond Raleigh Atlanta
Silver Meteor Trenton DC Richmond Raleigh Columbia
Silver Star Trenton DC Richmond Raleigh Columbia
Through car operation gets the CZ Sacramento Salt Lake City Denver Lincoln and Albany (NYC) or Harrisburg Trenton (PRR)
Name three streamlined trains that served five capital cities. They did not all serve the same cities. All were overnight trains.
Johnny
If Johnney-Degasty defers, I will come up with one.
ALL:
The question has been answered and we have a great deal of information about the Deep South and their race relations.
The second railroad was the Seaboard Air Line. "SAL penguin" said that air conditioning was available to white and colored passengers.
Who ever is next---go for it.
Ed Burns
Thanks REM and Dave. Simpler but flawed times. Embarrasing and touchy subject to talk about but I think enough time has passed to find out how this applied historically to the railroads.
In Ontario and Quebec, not sure of the rest of the provinces, a lady could not go to a bar by herself. There were seperate entrances marked "Men" and "Ladies and Escorts". Stuffy and prudish British holdover stuff. Disappeared in the early sixties. Some older and larger hotels had those entrances carved in stone work and remnants still exist.
I had personal experiences with these through trains. Generally, they were all-reserved. So the segregation existed for the entire run, not just the portion south of the Mason Dixon Line. Washington was the break-point for NYCity - Florida and NYC - Atlanta - New Orleans, and only reserved-seat coaches ran through, plus of course Pullmans on a variety of trains. On Pullmans, blacks were sold sections starting at the opposite end of the car from whites, so only if the car was full would blacks and whites have adjacent sections, and a white and a black would not share a section. All Southerm, ACL, and Seabord diners were Jim Crow diners with a partitions separating one table on each side from the rest of the interior. In a typical dining car, this meant that 32 seats werre available for whites and 8 for blacks. Blacks could use this dining car area as lounge area, between meals, and were not welcomed in the lounge and/or observation cars.
Should Johnny ask the next question?
Miningmanmy question is could white folk ride with the black folk? seeing the black folk were segregated and could not ride with the whites.
I've seen a couple of reports that said whites weren't supposed to ride in the 'colored' accommodations. (That of course has some other 'overtones' of racism above and beyond justifying a legalistic interpretation of the statutes involved.)
Remember that after Plessey v. Ferguson, just as with some labor situations after Lochner, 'separate but equal' was Constitutionally justified for a while, and it was not difficult to determine, in the case of railroad travel, that 'equality' meant the same getting from point A to point B, not the same quality of accommodation en route. A similar lame argument applied to schools where the curriculum included the same subjects, but funding, books, teaching quality, etc. were manifestly unequal.
Every train in the States with these laws had to have this separation?
Worse than that: any train that ran through one of these States had to provide it while doing so. That meant that some railroads had to provide cars to be switched in and out, or that were 'convertible' (via convenient partitions and doors, for example) when they got to the part of the run involved.
Note that this brings up the question of what happens in Pullman cars, where an African-American might buy through space including dining-car privilege, then go to eat in the diner in one of these segregationist states. This sort of problem, if I recall correctly, was solved (in the latter Forties) in the initial 'dry run' by the organizations that later produced the Brown v. Board of Ed. decision.
I guess colored were to change at Norelina to a car (air-conditioned) from Washington or New York when traveling from Portsmouth to Atlanta, while whites could ride a through car.
Not javing access to an OG, I can take satisfaction is a pretty good guess.
As I looked through the representations of the southern roads in my November, 1937, issue of the Guide (handle with care, the binding is not holding as it used to, and bits of paper are flaking off the pages), I found one road, the Seaboard, which noted that the Colored coach on two trains--one, Portsmouth-Norlina, and the other, Jacksonville-Tampa--were not air-conditioned. None of the other roads in the South mentioned such exclusion--either all were air-conditioned or none was.
So, forgive my ignorance on general knowledge of Jim Crow Laws ( being a Canadian Canucklehead..we simply did not have these things) but my question is could white folk ride with the black folk? seeing the black folk were segregated and could not ride with the whites.
Every train in the States with these laws had to have this separation? Seems kind of expensive all around and a real pain in the arse to keep up with and comply.
NP Eddie Rob and all: In my response to your SOO question, I should have clarified that the SOO used the MILW (along with the RI) in Minneapolis. Regarding the white and "colored coaches, keeping looking in the OG's of the 1936 era. CofG is not correct, however the CofG did own "divided" coaches in the 1940's. The 261 group owned one and I toured it. A door seperated the white and colored sections and the white and colored lavatories were NOT equal in size. Ed Burns
Rob and all:
In my response to your SOO question, I should have clarified that the SOO used the MILW (along with the RI) in Minneapolis.
Regarding the white and "colored coaches, keeping looking in the OG's of the 1936 era. CofG is not correct, however the CofG did own "divided" coaches in the 1940's. The 261 group owned one and I toured it. A door seperated the white and colored sections and the white and colored lavatories were NOT equal in size.
I rode in one of these from Statesville to Winston-Salem in 1958, on #22.
Central of Georgia - Atlanta-Savannah.
I believe the Southern did not air-condition coaches, just Pullmans and diners, until the Southerner arrived and then the Tennesian. The ACL and SAL air-condiioned important through trains pretty early. The SAL may have noted the non-air-conditioned. colored coach for its portsmouth (norfolk) - AtlantaBirmingham route or Jacksonville - New Orleans, and the ACL Atlanta - Wilmington.
Thought I had explained that the 5, Neperahand Avenue, went from downtown Yonkers north, not south to The Bronx. The answer is the 8, Riverdale Avenue, which just went back and forth on that street, northen end at Mian Street with track connection to the rest of the system, and south end at the Yonkers-The Bronx city line. North of Main Street, the same street was called Warburton Avenue with the single-track portion of the 1, Warburton Avenue line, that came up from the "Subway" on Broadway witht he 2 and 3.
The Riverdale section of The Bronx was very posh and its resdents did not wish any public transit beyond the NYCentral commuter station that was already there. Later, a bus was introduced.
Rob and All:
As information, the SOO used the MILW tracks from St. Paul Union to their own depot in Minneapolis. This meant that west and northbound SOO passenger trains headed into the depot, then backed out to a connection with the NP and used joint NP-SOO tracks to 14th Avenue North in Minneapolis where the SOO branched off the NP. East and south bound passenger trains backed into the MILW depot then headed to St. Paul where they terminated. I know that a few Pullman cars originated in Chicago and were transferred to the SOO for movement to the CP and the Canadian Rockies.
I'll step in with a question if that's OK.
In the early 1930's the various railroads and Pullman air-conditioned their newer cars for the comfort of the public.
Two of the deep south railroads touted air conditioning for their "white" and "colored" passengers. One of them stated that "the colored coach between point A and point B was NOT air-conditioned". Name the two railroads. Dig into the various OG's for the answer. Have fun.
Sorry, I thought RME had the answer. My oops. The last note from you wanted me to pose a question from my previous turn up, which I did, already answered by NP Eddie. Not sure who that leaves up. I would like your anser if it's different from RME's.
rc; Are you going to ccom up with the answer to my Yonkers question, or should I gve the answer?
NP Eddie Rob: Are you looking for the Soo Line? Soo's SG GP7's were in the 550 series and the WC's were in the 2550 series. Ditto for the balance of the SOO/WC diesels. Ed Burns
Rob:
Are you looking for the Soo Line? Soo's SG GP7's were in the 550 series and the WC's were in the 2550 series. Ditto for the balance of the SOO/WC diesels.
The Soo is, of course, the correct answer. The only real exceptions to the pattern were the Soo's N-20 4-8-2's 4001-4020, with only 4001-4010 belonging to the MStPSSM, the balance to the WC, including the three built at Soo's Shoreham shops from Alco-supplied parts (4018-4020). The four O-20 4-8-4's were all WC engines. WC's 2555 was unique among Soo's GP9s as the sole unit with dual controls.
The diesel locomotives on this railroad and its leased subsidiary were distinguished by the parent road's engines having 3-digit numbers, and the subsidiary's 4-digit numbers starting with 2. Steam locomotives had followed the same pattern, with the notable exception of the last two classes built.
Now that RC is back, I'll give him a day to answer, otherwise I'll post a new qustion.
The 5 ran east from /ft. of Main Street, then jogged north and then east again to Neperhan Avenue, then north, single track. It did not run south to the Bronx, it did run through Getty's Square going east on the same tracks as 6 and 7 before turning north. So it did not connect with any Bronx bus. There was more than one passing siding, and about five or six cars were required for rush hours. The northen end had the only open ties on ballast track on the whole TARS/TATS system, side-of-the-road, the east side.
daveklepperOne line was an unusual exception. It ran south to the Bronx, but stopped at the city line, did not connect with any subway, just to a bus. Provide as much information on this unusual line as you can. Be sure you know its street and its route number as a minimum. Its track configuration is easy to describe in a few sentences, possibly even one.
I'll bite, since nobody else seems to want to: Line 5, Nepperhan Avenue, to connect with the B43 bus after 1948 (the Bronx trolleys were shut down 4 years before the Yonkers operation. Branched off at Elm and consisted of one single track.
I will wait two more days before answering the question and posting a new one. Hopefully, someone will come up with the right answer.
One last group of hints and then if no answer in a day or so, a new question. The line's northern terminal was close to the Foot of Main Street but not at that location, and this was the only Yonkers line that did not terminate (No. 3) or pass through (all the rest but this) Getty's Square. Two cars ran during the rush and mid-day weekdays, one at other times. Single track with one mid-route passing siding. Southern border at the NYC (The Bronx) line connecting to a bus, another nickle or dime, which then made a subway connection.
Hint: Yonkers streetcar lines were numbered 1 thru 9. ! and 2 were the two thru lines that showed SUBWAY southbound to connect with the northern terminal of what is now the 1 subway line. 3 was a short-turn or both 1 and 2 from that subway terminal to the center of the city at Getty's Square. 4 ran from Woodlawn, northern terminal of the 4 subway line, thru Getty's Square to the foot of Maine street. Left for you are 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. Of all these lines, 2, 3, 4, and 7 were the ones that no single-track sections, only double-track. 1, 5, 6, 8, 9 all had single-track running.
OK I will comply with your wish. But you should have mentioned the change from under 11000V AC 25 HZ catenary to 600V DC underruning third rail when going from NYNH&H tracks to NYCentral at Woodlawn.
The Yonkers streetcar system was an extension of the overall Manhattan and Bronx (and earlier oneline extensions into both Brooklyn and Queens) system of Third Avenue Railways. Four lines ran south to bring people to northern terminals of two subway lines, now the 1 and the 4 subway lines, one was a suburban crosstown that ran west to downtown Mount Vernon and the NYNH&H station there. A short one car line ran west to serve a hilly neighorhood, and four ran north to additional residential areas, two of them through-routed with lines to the present 1 subway terminal. One line was an unusual exception. It ran south to the Bronx, but stopped at the city line, did not connect with any subway, just to a bus. Provide as much information on this unusual line as you can. Be sure you know its street and its route number as a minimum. Its track configuration is easy to describe in a few sentences, possibly even one.
daveklepperNorth Station to South Station after the Atlantic Avenue Elevated was shut down
Change at Park Street or Washington (Downtown Crossing), depending on which line you used from North Station.
I'm going to be out of town until early next week, so if I post a question now I won't be able to validate the answer. Please post another one - I'll get back in the queue at some point.
and from North Station to South Station after the Atlantic Avenue Elevated was shut down?
Then by all means ask the next question.
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