Sorry to be so late in asking a question but I've been away from the computer for a while and didn't realize the buck had been passed back to me.
In the mid-'50s if you lived in a town where they "still flew old glory at the courthouse" and "white lightning was the biggest thrill of all" you might have ridden the gas electric motor cars of a certain railroad. This road was one of three allied railroads which operated under separate names but shared common officers. The combined mileage of the three roads totalled nearly 800 miles in four states. What were the names of the railroads, which one still had passenger service, and between what points did its motors run?
Mark
Still waiting for a question, Mark!
Mark, if you'd ask the question you'd be doing me a favor. I'm preparing to work a railroad memorabilia show and will be unable to spend much time for the next few days monitoring the responses.
So, if you will, please ask a question.
Thanks!
Bob
"After you, Dear Alphonse."
"No, after you, Dear Gaston."
Johnny
You ask this one, Mark. I asked a question just a few days ago.
Go for it, Mark!
Bob Hanson
Take it away Bob. I don"t have a question ready plus I've asked more than my share of them lately. I'll defer to you and look forward to seeing what you offer up.
Mark, if it's up to me I check to either you or Bob Hanson to ask the next question. If that's the protocol. I'm kinda jammed up right now with the membership stuff for our historical society. Bob knows... 4th quarter issue of Lines South is due !
thanks
Bob and Flying Crow,
You are both right about the Katy's Komet and Klipper in the 1950's and perhaps even during the late "40's. I have a 1954 OG which lists the named Katy freights at that time.
1) The Komet, train #81 (southbound) and #'s80-280-270 (northbound) running between St.L and San Antonio, Houston and Galveston.
2) The Komet, train #'s281-81 (southbound) and #'s80-280-270 (northbound) running between KC and San Antonio, Houston and Galveston.
3) The Klipper, train #75 running from St.L to San Antonio, Houston and Galveston and #'s275-81 from KC to the same Texas cities.
4) The Bullet, train #'s72-272 running from San Antonio, Houston and Galveston to both St. L and KC.
5) The Packer, train #74 running from Ft. Worth to St.L and #74-274 from Ft. Worth to KC.
I should have been more specific in my original question which was meant to be about the Komet service when the Katy first started it the '30's.
The Missouri-Kansas-Texas Railroad of Texas was a subsidiary of the MIssouri-Kansas-Texas formed to satisfy the Texas corporation laws which specified that any railroad doing business in Texas had to be headquartered in that state. This same law was the reason for the T&NO on the SP and the SL-SF of Texas on the Frisco.
The MKTT, to my knowledge, did not operate outside the state of Texas, and it has a separate listing in the March, '56. Official Guide.
That information, plus 75 cents, will let you make a local call from any phone booth in the state of Georgia.
According to the March 1956 Official Guide the Katy Komet ran from both St. Louis (Tr. 81) and Kansas City (tr. 281) and they were combined at Parsons, KS.
This may have been a short-lived operation, but the train did, in fact, run from both STL and KC.
As near as I can determine from the representation in OG's of the period, the Katy Komet was not a single train but the name given to the Katy's fast, overnight freight service between Dallas/ Ft. Worth and San Antonio/Houston/Galveston. Southbound cars were carried in one train originating in Dallas and another originating in Ft. Worth. At the junction of the two lines near Hillsboro they were combined into a single train for the run to Granger. At Granger the train was again split with cars running in one train to San Antonio and in another to Houston and Galveston. This situation was reversed for cars running northbound. The OG's that I have of the late 1930's list the schedules of the Katy's other fast freights running between KC and StL and Texas but none of these are named. They are merely designated by train numbers.
The offical name of the road over which the Komet service ran was the Missour-Kansas-Texas Railroad Company of Texas.
I declare Flying Crow the winner and he has the opportunity to ask the first of what I expect will be many questions we'll see from him.
The KC to Texas fast freight was the Katy Klipper. The St. Louis - Texas route was the Komet. I had them backwards in my mind last night.
The Katy Komet ran from St. Louis and Kansas City to San Antonio and operated over the Missouri-Kansas-Texas Railroad Company and its Texas subsidiary (to satisfy the Texas corporation laws) the Missouri-Kansas-Texas Railroad Company of Texas.
Bob Hanson. Loganville, GA
FlyingCrow In this question, you are referring to the KATY KOMET, Missouri-Kansas-Texas of course, but my guessing part is Kansas City-Dallas. Gee, I wish I'd started reading this forum a long time ago...I've been a subscriber to CT since issue one and before...when it was Vintage Rails. This is fun.
In this question, you are referring to the KATY KOMET, Missouri-Kansas-Texas of course, but my guessing part is Kansas City-Dallas.
Gee, I wish I'd started reading this forum a long time ago...I've been a subscriber to CT since issue one and before...when it was Vintage Rails. This is fun.
I know I speak for other fans when I say welcome to the CT forums. It's good to have you aboard.
Good job - The Katy Komet is correct but you're a bit off base on the cities served.. Also the M-K-T was not the OFFICIAL name of the railroad. Do a little more checking and/or guessing to see if you can clear up these points.
Mark, I finally looked it up in my 1930 GUIDE and the IC - M&O deal is it.
Unlike most of our questions this one deals with freight rather than passenger service.
In the 1930's a certain road inagurated a fast freight service which they named the xxxx Komet (the xxxx being the name of the railroad). What was the full name of this service, the cities between which it operated and the OFFICAL name of the railroad over whose lines it ran?
KCSfan FlyingCrow: IC interchanged a sleeper with the FRISCO at Memphis. Then to Mobile via Aliceville, AL and York. If there was only one road in addition to the IC this couldn't have been the route. In 1930 the line from Aliceville to Mobile was the AT&N which wasn't acquired by the Frisco until later. The Mobile and Ohio comes to mind as a possibility. Perhaps the car was handled in that roads Gulf Coast Special from a connection with the IC at either N.Cairo or Memphis. Mark
FlyingCrow: IC interchanged a sleeper with the FRISCO at Memphis. Then to Mobile via Aliceville, AL and York.
IC interchanged a sleeper with the FRISCO at Memphis. Then to Mobile via Aliceville, AL and York.
If there was only one road in addition to the IC this couldn't have been the route. In 1930 the line from Aliceville to Mobile was the AT&N which wasn't acquired by the Frisco until later.
The Mobile and Ohio comes to mind as a possibility. Perhaps the car was handled in that roads Gulf Coast Special from a connection with the IC at either N.Cairo or Memphis.
Mark, thank you for the response about the Frisco/AT&N. I do not know just what year the Frisco took control of the AT&N, but it was not until 1971 that the Reform-Mobile road was fully absorbed; until then it was listed as a separate road in the Guide, but always next to the Frisco’s representation. The Frisco did have through freight service into Mobile, interchanging with the AT&N in Aliceville. I regret that I did not pursue the idea of riding it Aliceville-Mobile when I lived in Reform.
Also, you kept trying when you were ahead. In the same post, you gave the correct answers, although in 1930 what came to be known as North Cairo was known as Cairo Junction.
The other routings were possible, especially when roads had such interesting routings as Mobile-Chicago via Southern to Chattanooga through Selma, Alabama, and Rome, Georgia, thence Queen and Crescent to Cincinnati and then Big 4 to Chicago.
As to M&O into Memphis, the road had trackage rights from Corinth on the Southern, but no passenger service is shown in the Guide. There were also trackage rights from Corinth to Birmingham, over the IC’s route, which had trackage rights Haleyville-Jasper over the Southern and Jasper-Birmingham over the IC; again, there is no passenger service shown.
As to St. Louis, the GM&O had, for several years, a Chicago-Mobile sleeper that ran entirely on the GM&O–Alton Limited/Gulf Coast Rebel southbound, and Gulf Coast Rebel/Abraham Lincoln northbound. It did not compete successfully with the C&EI/L&N Hummingbird’s Chicago-Mobile service.
It’s now your question.
I should have done more research before writing replies. A 1937 OG is the closest one I have to 1930 and it DOES show a M&O line from Corinth to Memphis but lists it as freight only. Perhaps there was passenger service on that line in 1930 in which case Memphis could actually have been the possible transfer point. Corinth itself comes to mind as another possibility whIch I had previously overlooked.
Scratch Memphis from my last reply. I meant to say Jackson, TN - the M&O didn't run to Memphis. The tranxfer point could even have been St. Louis which was another connection between the IC and M&O.
Oh, darn...that's right. So it WAS the IC - M&O connection at Cairo.
FlyingCrow IC interchanged a sleeper with the FRISCO at Memphis. Then to Mobile via Aliceville, AL and York.
Sorry, Mark; you missed the mark, for the L&N and GM&N were not involved; the route was shorter than either one via Jackson, Miss.
Johnny,
I am not familiar with this sleeper route but I'll hazard a guess (several in fact). Your use of the word raod not roads suggests only one railroad other than the IC was involved.
By 1930 the IC had absorbed the Gulf & Ship Island so a route over the former lines of the latter would not count as a separate road. The most direct route would be IC between Chicago and Gulfport and L&N between Gulfport and Mobile. Of course a hand off between the IC and L&N could also been made at either New Orleans or Birmingham. I consider these last two less likely since they both are longer.
The only other route that seems likely to me would involve the Gulf Mobile & Northern. If this was the other road the transfer probably would have been at Jackson, MS though it conceivably could have been at Jackson, TN or even Laurel.
wanswheel Johnny, yes your turn. George Washington Whistler. With a cool name like that, he should be more famous than what's his name, the artist.
Johnny, yes your turn. George Washington Whistler. With a cool name like that, he should be more famous than what's his name, the artist.
In 1930, the Illinois Central participated in through sleeper service between Chicago and Mobile. What other road participated, and where was the transfer between roads made?
Whistler's Father, George Washington Whistler, graduated from West Point in 1819. Most people know of the portrait, "Whistler's Mother," painted by James McNeill Whistler, the first son of George Washington Whistler and his second wife, Anna Matilda McNeill.
He was in charge of laying the first section of passenger railroad track in the U.S. He built the Boston & Albany line through the Berkshires for the Western RR of Massachusetts. In what year did the American civil engineer selected by the Russians to build the St. Petersburg & Moscow Railroad graduate from West Point?
Mike
The installation of an utomatic block system (using semiphores) was begun on the West Point Route in 1917 and was completed in 1922, after being interrupted by World War I. The Georgia Railroad had a color light block system. Neither road had ATS.
Bob Hanson , Loganville, GA
KCSfan I know the Ga RR never had it but there may have been Automatic Train Stop installed on the West Point Route at one time. Since the Ga RR's engines were not equipped for ATS they had to stay on their home rails. Mark
I know the Ga RR never had it but there may have been Automatic Train Stop installed on the West Point Route at one time. Since the Ga RR's engines were not equipped for ATS they had to stay on their home rails.
I, also, had no idea as to the basis for the change in operation.
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