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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, July 30, 2013 10:11 AM

EL #5/6, the "Lake Cities", operated under a different name during part of 1964 and 1965.  What was the different name and its basis?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, July 26, 2013 12:21 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

The train in question was the "Copper Country Ltd" between Chicago and Calumet MI.  It was a joint MILW-SOO train.

Originally a joint MILW/DSS&A train, the Copper Country Ltd often ran through with MILW power, and seldom if ever had Soo Line equipment in the rest of the consist.  In DSS&A days it occasionally drew a pair of DSS&A RS1s north of Champion MI.

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, July 26, 2013 10:09 AM

The train in question was the "Copper Country Ltd" between Chicago and Calumet MI.  It was a joint MILW-SOO train.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, July 26, 2013 6:50 AM

So Ed, I'll use your commentary as a new question base and ask it on your behalf.  It doesn't quite fit into our 50 year window, but the train description certainly did.

The last Soo passenger train that had passenger equipment (as compared to caboose space) was discontinued in March 1968 (some months after the Winnipeger).  During its postwar period it never looked like a Soo Line passenger train.  Endpoints and participating carriers.

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Posted by NP Eddie on Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:09 PM

R. C. Drye:

I read that the PRR used the NYC station in Buffalo, NY.

Sorry--but I don't have a question to continue  this thread.

Some miscl. information though from my 4 years on the NP before the 1970 merger. In only saw a SOO line passenger train once and that was a NP's Minneapolis Lower Yard. The SOO used the NP trackage from a point called 14th Avenue North (Minneapolis) to a point near the MILW depot in Minneapolis. Then the SOO backed in the MILW depot. The Winnipeger consist sat in the St. Paul Union Depot during the day and was cleaned. The last SOO passenger train was discontinued in 1967.

The NP interchanged with the GN three ways in Minneapolis. 1. Industries east of the Mississippi River were delivered to the GN via a short track in Northeast Minneapolis. 2. Industries west of the Mississippi River were interchanged via the NP's Lower Yard. The GN shoved up from a track near the GN Depot and delivered and pulled. 3. Any road to road cars (and I only saw one) was delivered to the Minnesota Transfer Railroad for the GN.

Any time you want to talk about the Twin Cities, please call 763-234-9306. I was Roadmaster's Clerk for five years and had to know about the TC Terminal, joint trackage and all.

 

Ed Burns

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, July 25, 2013 1:05 PM

Ed is correct with Buffalo Central Terminal.  PRR and NYC shared a handful of Union Stations here and there (Erie PA, Toledo OH, Cincinnati OH) but PRR was usually an equal partner.  PRR's Western New York and Pennsylvania usually had one each day and night trains to Harrisburg compared to the dozens of NYC trains.  PRR/PC service continued right up to April 30 1971.

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Posted by NP Eddie on Thursday, July 25, 2013 10:55 AM

RC DRYE:

Are you thinking of the NYC depot in Buffalo, NY? I read (not sure where) that the PRR used that depot because they had only one or two trains a day on that line.

Ed Burns

Retired NP-BN-BNSF from Minneapolis and ATCS host in Anoka, MN

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, July 25, 2013 6:29 AM

Pennsylvania RR and New York Central did not share very many facilities, but in one city PRR not only used the same station as NYC, but was actually a tenant of NYCs.  Station still exists but is no longer in use.

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 7:48 PM

I pass the torch to the other guys....I just got to ask a question. 

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 6:08 PM

rcdrye

Manufacturers Junction in Cicero IL owned by Western Electric.

That's the one I'm looking for Rob. The MJ connected with the IC, CB&Q, C&IW, BRC and B&OCTRR. Much of its trackage lay within the grounds of WE's sprawling Hawthorne manufacturing complex.

Both you and Buck Dean have correctly identified one of the two railroads so whichever of you has a question ready go ahead and post it.

Mark

 

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 5:25 PM

Manufacturers Junction in Cicero IL owned by Western Electric.

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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 1:18 PM

narig01
Didn't Singer have a railway in Indiana? Off the top of my head I don't remember where or the name. Thought I would throw it out there for someone.
Thx IGN

You're thinking of the New Jersey Indiana and Illinois which served the Singer plant in South Bend. That RR was the subject of just a few questions ago on either this or the other Questions thread and is not the other  railroad were looking for in the current question.

Mark

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Posted by narig01 on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 11:38 AM
Didn't Singer have a railway in Indiana? Off the top of my head I don't remember where or the name. Thought I would throw it out there for someone.
Thx IGN
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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 7:16 AM

Looks like a hint is in order.

The track owned by the second railroad was entirely within a suburb immediately adjacent to a large mid-western city. The road operated via trackage rights into the larger city.

Mark

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 2:29 AM

I think there were two steel-company-owned railroads near Pttisburgh, one was the Monongahela and Western Pennsylvania, and the other might have been just the Monongahela Railroad or something similar.  US steel owned one or both.

Cities/towns may be Pittsburgh itself, McKees Rocks, McKeesport, Ailiquipa

Sorry, reread the thread, and the name Manufacturer('s) must be included.   Wrong guesses.

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 11:37 AM

KCSfan

narig01
I found a listing for Hoboken Manufactures Railway. Did something connected to Maxwell House Coffee. Became the Hoboken Shore Railroad.
Rgds IGN

Nope, that's not the other one.

Mark

The Hoboken Manufacturers Ry was a good call except it did not meet the criterion of having been built and operated by a large industrial company.

Mark

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 10:12 AM

Steel  company owned?    Near or in Pittsburgh?

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:55 AM

daveklepper

Mark, I  think it was not in the OG because all freight billing was handled directly by the NYNH&H.

Dave, that's very possibly the situation but remember we're looking for a RR that was owned by the corporation it served, not a subsidiary of another RR.

Mark

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:49 AM

FlyingCrow

Well the MRS of St Louis was an Anheuser Busch operation.     The light bulb went on today after talking to an old friend from Michigan.

Are you talking about the Lansing Mfgr Ry...Or Lansing Belt ,    The one that served all the GM plants in Lansing, Michigan.   NYC Subsidiary.    The last bastion of NYC 0-8-0's.

Buck, you're correct, the Manufacturers Ry was owned by AB and served their huge Budweiser brewery in StL. It connected with the TRRA and the MoPac. That's one down and one still to get.

The other road was not the Lansing Mfgr Ry.

Mark 

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, July 22, 2013 11:19 PM

Mark, I  think it was not in the OG because all freight billing was handled directly by the NYNH&H.

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Monday, July 22, 2013 7:23 PM

Well the MRS of St Louis was an Anheuser Busch operation.     The light bulb went on today after talking to an old friend from Michigan.

Are you talking about the Lansing Mfgr Ry...Or Lansing Belt ,    The one that served all the GM plants in Lansing, Michigan.   NYC Subsidiary.    The last bastion of NYC 0-8-0's.

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, July 22, 2013 6:14 PM

narig01
I found a listing for Hoboken Manufactures Railway. Did something connected to Maxwell House Coffee. Became the Hoboken Shore Railroad.
Rgds IGN

Nope, that's not the other one.

Mark

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Posted by narig01 on Monday, July 22, 2013 12:15 PM
I found a listing for Hoboken Manufactures Railway. Did something connected to Maxwell House Coffee. Became the Hoboken Shore Railroad.
Rgds IGN
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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, July 22, 2013 7:10 AM

daveklepper

There was also a Manufacturers' Railroad in Connecticut, owned by the New Haven, either directly or through its Connecticut Company streetcar subsidiafy.  It used steeple-cap trolley pole locomotives, had some tracks of its own, but mostly used Conecticut Company streetcar tracks.

Dave, I've looked for this road in half a dozen OG's from 1910 to 1955 and can find no mention of it. This leads me to believe it was either not a separate RR or was not a common carrier. In any event it is not the other road I'm looking for.

Mark

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, July 22, 2013 6:47 AM

FlyingCrow

Mark...the C&NW narrow gauge equipment went to the Lawndale.

So , is one of these railroads the Manufacturers Railway of St. Louis, Mo?

Yes, that's one of the two. What corporation built, owned and operated it and with what RR's did it connect? Still looking for the other road.

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, July 22, 2013 12:08 AM

There was also a Manufacturers' Railroad in Connecticut, owned by the New Haven, either directly or through its Connecticut Company streetcar subsidiafy.  It used steeple-cap trolley pole locomotives, had some tracks of its own, but mostly used Conecticut Company streetcar tracks.

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Sunday, July 21, 2013 7:29 PM

Mark...the C&NW narrow gauge equipment went to the Lawndale.

So , is one of these railroads the Manufacturers Railway of St. Louis, Mo?

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, July 21, 2013 10:45 AM

So as not to mislead anyone I need to make a clarification. The names of the two railroads were very similar but were not identical.

Mark

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, July 21, 2013 9:35 AM

Two shortline railroads had much in common: 1) Their names, 2) Both were built and operated by big industrial firms, 3) Both connected a large plant of these companies with the national rail network and transported raw materials to and finished products from these plants, and 4) Both operated solely within the city limits of the municipalities where these plants were located.

What were the names of these railroads, the names of the corporations that owned them, their locations and what railroad(s) did they connect with?

Mark

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 21, 2013 5:43 AM

Look forward to Mark's question and the second half of the answer.

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