Inauuration of Daylight Savings Time. I'm certain practicalliy any other reader of this Forum would have answered correctly if I did not do so first.
Saved electricity and fuel in general during WWI.
Very good IGN, you are correct on all points. While it was a common carrier and carried passengers for a fare 25 cents, the Harbor Springs was primarily a logging road for which it also became known as the Hemlock Central. Its Shay engines were unique in that they were frameless and their boilers served as their frames.
Ephraim Shay is credited as the inventor of the Shay locomotive and he held the patents on its design which he later sold to Lima. An interesting history of Ephraim Shay and his locomotive can be found at http://www.shaylocomotives.com/shaypages/EphraimShay.htm.
Mark
The Maine 2' gauge roads are well known and AFAIK were the narrowest common carriers in the US. Moving up in width, what was the next wider railroad gauge? Circa 1910 there was only one railroad of this gauge listed in the OG's. Name the railroad and its gauge.
KCSfan Iron Range & Huron Bay Tough question Rob. I was getting nowhere in answering it until you mentioned its two 4-8-0's were sold to the Algoma Central. Mark
Iron Range & Huron Bay
Tough question Rob. I was getting nowhere in answering it until you mentioned its two 4-8-0's were sold to the Algoma Central.
Glad I was able to drop good hints.
My Grandfather was born in 1886 in Champion MI. He wrote a short history (unpublished) of the IR & HB back in the 1940s or 50s. It got hit with the quadruple whammy of cost overrruns, dwindling iron reserves, the horrible grade down to the lake and what became the panic of 1893.
rcdrye More obscure railroads. This two million dollar project was constructed to haul iron ore had elaborate bridges, deep cuts and a huge ore dock but never hauled a revenue load.
More obscure railroads. This two million dollar project was constructed to haul iron ore had elaborate bridges, deep cuts and a huge ore dock but never hauled a revenue load.
Hints: was supposed to open in 1892, had 2 4-8-0's from Brooks (used in construction, sold to Algoma Central). The grade down to the ore dock from the main line was around 5%. In an area with active iron mining today, including RRs that mainly haul ore.
Rob:
The two NP 10 and 6 sleeping cars (364 & 365) were ordered for the interline with the SP between Seattle and Oakland, thus they were painted SP colors (the SP did not name their sleeping cars). After this pool was discontinued they were repainted NP Lowey colors for NCL service. Because there were only two cars they were not shown in the timetables. I have seen pictures of one of the cars in both SP and NP colors.
One of the cars (don't remember which one) remains in BNSF service as the power/sleeping car "Stampede Pass".
Ed Burns
763-234-9306
Very good Rob. I thought this obscure line might be a bit more difficult to identify. The Ilwaco RR actually ran for 27 miles between Megler and Ilwaco, WA. Passengers and freight traveled by steamship across Willapa Bay from Astoria and Portland to Ilwaco - there was no carfloat operation. The road was nicknamed "the Clamshell Line" and its last train ran on Sept. 9, 1930. The next question is yours.
The Ilwaco Railway and Navigation Company was (after a tangled beginning) part of UP's Oregon-Washington Railway and Navigation Company. Physically not connected with any other railroads, it was the westernmost railroad in the continental U.S., running from Nahcotta to Megler WA, around 30 miles. The only nickname I can verify is the Ilwaco Branch, though I seem to remember references to the "Cranberry Line". It handled mail, resort passengers, oysters clams and cranberries. Abandonment came in 1930.
Time to put your thinking cap on. What was the last 3' gauge line in the Union Pacific System? What were its end points, it's nickname and unusual distinction (other than being narrow gauge)?
First I want to correct a statement I made - North Pacific Coast #21 (1901) was a 4-4-0 !
For a drawing see http://steamcad.railfan.net/npc21.htm
Second incorrect statement - original pair of MC class (1909) were not cab-forwards. They also did not last long in the mountains. They did hang around long enough to become AC's and get turned around.
Roster counts from http://www.northeast.railfan.net/steam24.html
Correct count of CF's is 246 including the two rebuilts, and 10 that were never CF's
Dave is correct that all 4-8-8-2s were ACs, but many ACs were rebuilt MC 2-8-8-2s
2 MC-1 2-8-8-2 NOT cab forward (1909) became AC-1 cab forward in 1928
15 MC-2 2-8-8-2 (1909) became AC-1
12 MM-2 2-6-6-2 (1911) of these at least 8 were later rebuilt as simple 4-6-6-2 AM-2
12 MC-4 2-8-8-2 (1911) became AC-2
20 MC-6 2-8-8-2 (1912-1913) became AC-3
10 AC-4 4-8-8-2 (1928)
16 AC-5 4-8-8-2 (1929)
25 AC-6 4-8-8-2 (1930)
26 AC-7 4-8-8-2 (1937)
28 AC-8 4-8-8-2 (1939)
10 AC-9 2-8-8-4 (1939) coal burners - NOT cab forward
40 AC-10 4-8-8-2 (1942)
30 AC-11 4-8-8-2 (1942-1943)
20 AC-12 4-8-8-2 (1943-1944)
But were there really any MC 4-8-8-2's? Were not all 4-8-8-2's AC's?
Mark has all of the SP classes correct. The MM and AMs proved too light and lasted only into the 1920s, the ACs were obviously much more successful, running up to the AC-12 class in 1944. The AC-9 was the only "normal" non cab forward version. Simpling the engines gave them both tractive effort and speed, so SP could run them with large trains on the flats as well as in the mountains.
As far as I know all of the 2-8-8-2s were MCs.
The North Pacific Coast (later part of the NWP) rebuilt an oil-fired 4-6-0 from an older engine. It was not a success.
rcdrye Big bonus - name the railroad that had a cab-forward 4-6-0.
Big bonus - name the railroad that had a cab-forward 4-6-0.
I doubt this is what you have in mind but the only cab forward 4-6-0 I've been able to find so far was the Italian Railways Gr670.
I have a bit of information about the GN's Winnipeg Limited.
The NP's St. Paul Division issued timetables frequently due to the many first class trains that operated on the First Subdivision between St. Paul and Staples. Only the Mainstreeter and NCL were NP trains. The rest were GN passenger trains that operated between Northtown or Coon Creek (to Superior) or Northtown to St. Cloud (Fergus Falls and Fargo).
St.. Paul Divn TT 03 from 8 18 68 does list GN 7 & 8 (listed as NP 77 and NP 78) with the times of the Winnipeg Limited.
St. Paul Divn TT 04 from 9 15 69 shows only GN 27 and 28 (as NP 71 and NP 72). That would tell me that the Winnipeg Limited was taken off about that time and a stub train was operated between Fargo and Winnipeg. I don't know if 27 and 28 handled cars that were switched out at Fargo or not. Seeing that train carried a coach with a small food section that may have been the case as where would the food have been replenished and the attendant (a cook from the dining car roster) have been relieved.
Hope that give you some info.
Call me if you have any questions.
Ed Burns 763-234-9306 (CT)
AC = Articulated Consolidations (2-8-8-2, 4-8-8-2 & 2-8-8-4)
MC = Mallet Consolidation (2-8-8-2 & 4-8-8-2)
AM = Articulated Mogul (2-6-6-2 & 4-6-6-2)
MM = Mallet Mogul (2-6-6-2 & 4-6-6-2)
Hopefully with some research I'll be able to find the cab forward 4-6-0. It must have been a real oddity.
possiblllly wheel arrangements: AC 4-8-8-2., MM 2-8-8-2.. MC 2-8-8-0 or 2060602?
The Winnipeg Limited ran intact until at least 1969. I think BN cut it back to a connection from the Western Star in early to mid 1970.
I'm going to try a little steam here...
SP had 266 articulated steam locomotives, 256 cab forwards and 10 "normal" 2-8-8-4s. The most famous SP cab forward class were the AC classes of 4-8-8-2s. In the early days SP also had cab forwards in the MM and MC classes, and at least one MM became an AM. What do the A, Ms and C stand for?
Good answer--you are good!!! I wrote in one of the two Winnipeg Limited sleeping cars before I hired out. I wonder what happened to them and I don't know when that train came off and a stub train from Fargo to Winnipeg was started.
Also, I was told that Raymond Lowey did not think that names on the sides would look good what with his new paint scheme.
Next question to you.
NP Eddie This is a two part question. 1. The 1948 sleeping cars for the North Coast Limited were named. About 1954, Raymond Lowey modernized the NCL with a new paint scheme and the sleeping cars lost their names in favor of numbers. Why was his reason for numbering those cars? 2. Part two is tricker--another railroad that operated out of Minneapolis/St. Paul had two unique sleeping/lounge cars. What was the railroad, the names and numbers of those cars, and which train were they those cars used on?
This is a two part question.
1. The 1948 sleeping cars for the North Coast Limited were named. About 1954, Raymond Lowey modernized the NCL with a new paint scheme and the sleeping cars lost their names in favor of numbers. Why was his reason for numbering those cars?
2. Part two is tricker--another railroad that operated out of Minneapolis/St. Paul had two unique sleeping/lounge cars. What was the railroad, the names and numbers of those cars, and which train were they those cars used on?
1. The new 1954 paint scheme put the NP's Monad symbol right in the center of the car side - the traditional place for the name. These weren't the first numbered sleepers NP had - that honor went to the 10-6s bought for use with SP's Cascade in 1950. NP added names again with the 1959 Loch series slumbercoaches (which also carried numbers).
2. GN cars 1198 Manitoba Club and 1199 Winniipeg Club were assigned to the Winnipeg Limited after 1956. They were 8 Dup Rmt 2 DBR Buffet Lounges rebuilt from 16 Dup Rmt 4 DBR cars. They allowed GN to retire some heavyweight cars and still offer light meal service.
ALL:
As information, both trains traveled on the same track for about fifty miles before the second train veered of onto its own rails. I would see both trains stopped at the Northtown switchtender's shack before being allowed to proceed to the operator and receive orders. I got paid to watch trains!
Nickel Plate's 5DBRBuffetLounge cars 150 City of Cleveland and 151 City of Chicago, and 7 of their 13 200 series 10Rmt6DBR cars had the same names as various prewar NYC and PRR 17 and 18 roomette cars (NYC's had one section (9) for the porter). For consistency the NKP's two 18 Rmt cars 215 City of St. Marys and 216 City of Coldwater were also identified by number. The 18 Rmt cars were built for the Pullman pool and acquired by NKP in 1945 or so. The only other cars with names to be identified by number were a few of CN's 24 DupRmt cars in the "I" series that were on Pullman lease.
Pullman's 1950 car list has 150 and 151 with a diagram number of 230, which was listed as 5 DBR Buffet Lounge Observation, though they were mid-train cars. B&O's Capitol Limited observations, built as C&O cars, had the same diagram number. There is some reason to suspect that all of NKPs postwar cars were intended as part of C&O's large order, as the car designs and equipment are identical down to the unusual 220 volt electrical systems.
Your question, Ed!
Rob and all:
"Car Names, Numbers, and Consists", page 112, lists sleeping cars owned by the Nickel Plate as being identified by numbers as the "City" names were used on other Pullman cars.
No fancy advertising claims for this question.
All of this railroad's lightweight Pullmans were listed on Pullman's list of cars identified by number even though the cars had names painted on them during their entire service lives. Railroad and reason for this special treatment.
The C&O is correct. Like you I can understand the rationale behind the Battlefield Line but I'm puzzled by the reference to the Rhine and Alps.
For reasons I can't seem to find, The Chesapeake and Ohio used those names in its advertising before WW I. My best guess would be the "Rhine" was their line along the New River in West Virginia, the "Alps" the Blue Ridge or maybe their resort hotels, also in West Virginia, and the "Battlefield" their traverse of just about every major battlefield in Virginia on the former Virginia Central and Orange & Alexandria lines.
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter