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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, October 18, 2013 4:41 AM

It was not the Crescent nor was it a "sometimes" event. The service ran every day and was shown in OG's and timetables of the time. Keep in mind that this service was in effect in March 1946 and very possibly began at an even earlier date.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 17, 2013 10:51 PM

Crescent, NY Penn - NO, via PRR, Southern, West Point Rout, L&N.   Regular coaches handled Atlanta - NO over West Point Rout and L&N.     Later, coaches for occupancy added Washington - Charlotte and often carried empty to Atlanta.   Applies in both directions.    Finally, coaches added, combined with Southerner, rerouted via Birmingham, and renamed the Southern Crescent, PRR, Southern only.

Also, during certain exceptionally heavy traffic periods, when the El Cap was full, the Super Chief carried coaches Chi -LA and return, but this was done very quietly.      Then there is the Panama LImited with the addition of the Magnolia Star.

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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, October 17, 2013 2:39 PM

This train is always thought of and referred to as being "all Pullman" both before and after it was streamlined. In fact, however, following WW2 it was all Pullman over only part of its route and carried non-Pullman passenger cars over other portions. Name the train, the non-Pullman cars that it carried and the points between which they ran.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:58 AM

We have a winner.  KCSfan, your question.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 11:35 AM

Kensington & Eastern - owned by the ICRR

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 10:08 AM

In its pre-NICTD existence, South Shore directly owned only the trackage between South Bend and the Illinois-Indiana state line.  What is the name of the railroad that actually owned the trackage between Kensington (115th Street) and the state line, and who was the owner of that railroad?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, October 12, 2013 2:17 PM

Exactly, and it is your question.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, October 11, 2013 10:08 AM

I should have gotten this much earlier since I enjoy wordplay.  The road in question is the Southern Indiana Railroad, the last surviving remnant of the original Indiana Railroad.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, October 11, 2013 4:26 AM

More hints:   All names (esscept RR or RW) are geographical entities or descriptions.   Also the full name of the interurban without the addition for the existing diesel frieght railroad remnant, is also the full name of a different freight railroad, in operation, that has no real connection with the interurban.

That should give it away.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, October 9, 2013 4:58 PM

Hints:   The first motive power of the independent freight railroad was electric, freight power inhereted from the interurban.    But much of the interurbam kept running for a year or so AFTER the frieght railroad became independent, and isolated from the interurban.   The full name of the existing diesel freight railroad consists of the name of the interurban and the name of a fallen flag class I steam railroad.   Two words (names) plus railroad.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, October 7, 2013 4:09 PM

What I am referring to is definitely in service.  Also note what I wrote about the initial boss of the freight operation, and the initial motive power.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:15 PM

daveklepper

Name the succesful frieght short line:   (1) Name contains the complete name of an interurban.   (2) All its route and all its trackage except for new sidings and a Y-connection were operated by that interurban.  (3) Its iinitial CEO had been  the CEO of the interurban.   (4)  Its initial motive power had been freight power of that interurban.

It's no longer in service but the Aurora Elgin and Fox River Electric met your specs until the early 1980s, when the Fox River Trolley Museum took over the trackage.  Later power wa a 45-ton diesel.

The CV-NH (now CV-Amtrak) connecting track in New London was the regular route of the Montrealer after the 1987 ownership shift to the CV until the Montrealer was discontinued in 1995.  The Vermonter continues to run on the Palmer sub from East Northfield to Palmer at least until next spring.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 6, 2013 2:20 PM

The freight trains did continue to run to New London after WWII began in 1939, but the boats were discontiniiued, for fear of U-boat attacks, after the Cunard Line Athena was sunk, 9 September.  This ship was carrying mostly British children bound for a safe Canada and did carry any armaments.  My cousin Bell Klepper Wilkes and her son, my second cousin of my age and virtual twin in appearance and best friend, Jonti, went down with the ship.  Bell's husband, Pediatrician Dr. Edward Wilkes and Janti's older brother, Danial Wilkes survived.  The family had been enjoying their yearly Scottish vacation.  The freights then interchanged with the Netw Haven via a connecting track that remains in service today.   Some freight had been interchanged wih the NH earlier of course.  The connecting track has been used for passenger specials (rode several, including steam, CV had trackage rights into the New London Station) and for an occasional Montrealier rerout.

Name the succesful frieght short line:   (1) Name contains the complete name of an interurban.   (2) All its route and all its trackage except for new sidings and a Y-connection were operated by that interurban.  (3) Its iinitial CEO had been  the CEO of the interurban.   (4)  Its initial motive power had been freight power of that interurban.

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, October 6, 2013 7:33 AM

Between White River Jct and East Northfield MA (just over the state line from Vermont), the CV owned White River Jct - Windsor VT (original Vermont Central), B&M owned Windsor to Brattleboro (built as Sullivan RR and Vermont Valley).  At Brattleboro the CV owned the line that stayed in Vermont towards East Northfield, part of todays NECR Palmer Sub (which also includes the ex-B&M from Windsor).  The B&M owned a line that crossed into New Hampshire and ran south to East Northfield.  The line was operated jointly under B&M rules and dispatching, with most southbound trains of both roads using the CV, northbouds the B&M. The B&M's bridge at East Northfield collapsed in 1970 and was removed, so all trains ended up on the CV.  CV acquired the ex-B&M portion in 1987, and sold the whole system to NECR in 1995.  CV used its own and leased CN power on through freights. CV's Texas types could operate as far south as Brattleboro.

An odd feature of the joint operation in steam days is that one pair of B&M passenger trains drew CV power and crews south of Brattleboro even though it ran over the B&M to Springfield Union Station. It was the only train that regularly ran north on the CV-owned line.

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, October 6, 2013 6:35 AM

I had always thought the lines east of White River Jct. were all B&M and didn't realize the CV reached the seaport of New London. Did the CV run through freights to New London via trackage rights over the B&M between WRJ and Brattleboro or was the Southern Div a completely isolated entity. The March 1946 OG doesn't show any through passenger service just all stop Motor trains No's 1 & 2 running between Brattleboro and New London.

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, October 5, 2013 7:04 AM

CV is the correct answer.  It ran a "mixed" train on its Southern Division (part of today's New England Central's Palmer sub) to meet its boats in New London.  CV transportation had its own piers in New York City.  The whole operation lasted until the late 1930s.  Normal power for the train was a CV 4-6-0, but on heavier days or in the winter the train drew the heaviest power on the Southern Division, 2-8-0's with tender boosters.  The rest of the CV had heavy enough track structure to handle small 4-8-4s and 2-10-4s.  The other passenger carrying schedule on the Southern Division was covered by a gas-electric.

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, October 4, 2013 6:42 PM

rcdrye

CV had its own piers in New York, and the packet boats Vermont and New Hampshire

Is CV the correct answer?

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, October 3, 2013 7:36 PM

daveklepper

Central Vermont

CV had its own piers in New York, and the packet boats Vermont and New Hampshire

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 3, 2013 1:57 AM

Central Vermont

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, October 2, 2013 7:15 PM

This railroad operated its own boats on Long Island Sound, connecting with a mail and express train listed as a "mixed" that was often heavy enough to draw a 2-8-0 with a tender booster, the heaviest power on the divison where the boats docked.

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Posted by narig01 on Wednesday, October 2, 2013 1:42 PM
Rcdyre you got it.

From what I've read wagonways became pretty common in England in the 18th century. It was the Napoleonic wars with France that drained off the available supply of horses and feed that created the need for another source of pulling power that lead to "light weight" steam engines. While steam engines had been used in stationary applications their use on railways was not needed until there was a shortage of horsepower.
Also while wagonways were common there use was open to anyone who had a horse and a wagon with flanges wheels the right gauge. Indeed the owners of many wagon ways were prohibited from actually owning the vehicles (horse and wagons) .
The evolution of railways.
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middleton_Railway

http://www.middletonrailway.org.uk/

Thx IGN
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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, October 1, 2013 10:33 AM

That would be the Middleton Railway from Middleton to Leeds.  Worked by horses from 1758 to 1812, steam 1812 to 1834, horses from 1834 to 1866.  Some of the line is still in operation as a museum railway.  The rack operation, later discontinued, was around 1812 using a locomotive named Salamanca.

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Posted by narig01 on Tuesday, October 1, 2013 8:30 AM
The Stockton and Darlington's charter dates to 1821. The one I am looking for dates to 9 June 1758. Additionally whilst this railway started using steam in 1812 but later stiled using steam after some fatal accidents. It may also be the first rack railway.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, September 30, 2013 3:31 AM

Stockton and Darlington

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Posted by narig01 on Sunday, September 29, 2013 10:37 PM
I'll try this again.

Name the oldest railway by an act of parliament?

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Posted by rcdrye on Friday, September 27, 2013 6:29 AM

Take it IGN!

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, September 26, 2013 3:00 PM

Thar is RCdye and narig1

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, September 26, 2013 2:55 PM

Narig, but MUNI does and did operate PCC"s, so just because the car is paianted like a Magic Carpet, still does not count.  YOu got half the answer with the Philly Suburban-painted double-ender (1007), and the other car is the one painted like a Markeet Street Ry PCC that never existed (1011).   These are the two cars that fully meet the requirements of the question.  And note that the long-time actual operating tracks of the F line, which were also the main line downtown for the remaining five lines during the period before the Subway, are the former Market Street tracks, the inside tracks, not the former MUNI tracks which were the outside tracks.  So with two people each giving half the answer, you decide between yourselves.   

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Posted by narig01 on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 10:29 PM
The only other car I can think of is 1010. Painted the blue and yellow "school bus". Painted like 1001 thru 1005. The magic carpets. Before WWII Munit bought these as they did not have access to the PCC patents. It was thought they would be the pattern to get around the patent restrictions. Then the war intervened before they could make a decision to buy more. After the war they gained access to the patents with the Market St Ry.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 12:25 PM

daveklepper
But two cars are painted in color schemes for two systems that never ran PCC's.  (1) Which two PCC cars, (2) who built them and for whom, (3) what is different about them from most of the present MUNI PCC fleet, (4) for which systems are they painted, and (5) why?

Just a summation. 

1011 painted for Market St Ry was built by St. Louis Car in 1948.  MSRy had plans for PCC-type cars that probably would have been electrically similar to the Balboa High Speeds they did build, but MSRy never got any streamilined cars, and was bought out by Muni in 1944.  1011 is a double ender representing the namesake company of the Market St. Ry Assoc., the group that started the restoration of streetcar service on Market St.

1010 is painted for the Muni's Magic Carpet cars, PCC bodies built without the the Transit Research patented PCC parts.  St. Louis car 1948.  As a nod to Muni's pre-PCC streamliners.

1062 is painted for Louisville, KY. Built for Philadelphia Transportation Co. as its 2101 in 1948 by St. Louis Car.  Louisville bought PCCs but never ran them, almost immediately selling them to Cleveland, which later resold them to Toronto, where they were reguaged to 4' 10 7/8"  The car was originally 5' 2 1/2" guage when it was in Philadelphia.  Philadelphia still runs some St. Louis-built PCCs on the 15 Girard Ave line.

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