wanswheel My father would've been 95 today, born in St. Albans on October 13, 1914. He typed up a proposal in 1971 for the new Amtrak railroad to revive the old CV Montrealer, and hundreds of letters to drum up support for the train in New England. This lead to passenger service in Vermont, which still exists, and a Presidential appointment to the Amtrak board of directors. He served from 1974 to 1978. Pay no attention to the spooky guy in the window! http://www.hebners.net/amtrak/amtSLEEP/amt2990.jpg In case you missed it in the December 2000 Trains magazine, here's a link to the football season thread where I posted the text of "We Brought the NYC to Its Knees" by Joseph MacDonald. http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/159618/1760761.aspx#1760761 What railroad supplied the locomotive for a train promoting a drug store chain in 1936? Mike MacDonald
My father would've been 95 today, born in St. Albans on October 13, 1914. He typed up a proposal in 1971 for the new Amtrak railroad to revive the old CV Montrealer, and hundreds of letters to drum up support for the train in New England. This lead to passenger service in Vermont, which still exists, and a Presidential appointment to the Amtrak board of directors. He served from 1974 to 1978.
Pay no attention to the spooky guy in the window!
http://www.hebners.net/amtrak/amtSLEEP/amt2990.jpg
In case you missed it in the December 2000 Trains magazine, here's a link to the football season thread where I posted the text of "We Brought the NYC to Its Knees" by Joseph MacDonald.
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/159618/1760761.aspx#1760761
What railroad supplied the locomotive for a train promoting a drug store chain in 1936?
Mike MacDonald
You and your father, I am sure, were pleased when Amtrak named a sleeper for him. This car must have been a late acquistion by Amtrak (by 1984), as the only list I have that contains it is dated 1984--and the list does not give either the then Amtrak name or its SFe name.
Johnny
passengerfanIn what year did the GN combine the Western Star and Fast Mail trains?
Texas Zepher passengerfanIn what year did the GN combine the Western Star and Fast Mail trains? May 23, 1960, By this time, due to steadily decreasing patronage, the Empire Builder had already lost its observation car.
Absolutely correct it was always an easy date to remember for me as it was my younger brothers birthday.
Al - in - Stockton
passengerfanTexas ZepherpassengerfanIn what year did the GN combine the Western Star and Fast Mail trains? May 23, 1960, By this time, due to steadily decreasing patronage, the Empire Builder had already lost its observation car.Absolutely correct it was always an easy date to remember for me as it was my younger brothers birthday.
Texas ZepherpassengerfanIn what year did the GN combine the Western Star and Fast Mail trains? May 23, 1960, By this time, due to steadily decreasing patronage, the Empire Builder had already lost its observation car.
Johnny, thank you! Dad never saw his name on Pine Grove. The honor was posthumous.
http://www.trainpage.com/tAn-Az/images/ATSFpullmanPineGroveTexChie.jpg
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=754675
Mike
Texas Zepher passengerfanTexas ZepherpassengerfanIn what year did the GN combine the Western Star and Fast Mail trains? May 23, 1960, By this time, due to steadily decreasing patronage, the Empire Builder had already lost its observation car.Absolutely correct it was always an easy date to remember for me as it was my younger brothers birthday. And I will just follow the same theme and make that my question. What was the date of the last run of the Empire Builder with an observation car? What happened to the observation cars?
I don't remeber the date the E,pire Builders lost there observation cars but I do know the histories.
The 1947 Empire Builder Observations were built with 2 Double Bedrooms 1 Drawing Room and and Buffet Observation and named in the River series 1190 MISSISSIPPI RIVER 1191 MISSOURI RIVER 1192 FLATHEAD RIVER 1193 KOOTENAI RIVER and the CB&Q owned MARIAS RIVER. In 1950 one additional River series observation the 1197 PRIEST RIVER was added in anticipation of the New Empire Builder being delivered.
The New Mid Century Empire Builder entered service in June 3, 1951 and that train had new Buffet Lounge Observations in the MOUNTAIN series 1290 APPEKUNNY MOUNTAIN, 1291 ST. NICHOLAS MOUNTAIN 1292 GOING -TO-THE-SUN MOUNTAIN 1293 CATHEDRAL MOUNTAIN 1294 TREMPALEAU MOUNTAIN and 1295 LITTLE CHIEF MOUNTAIN.
The River series cars became the Observations on the Western Star. In 1955 when the Empire Builder received domes the River series cars were shopped and rebuilt to 4 Double Bedroom 1 Compartment 6 Roomette lounge Observations and renamed to the COULEE series and returned to the Empire Builder and the Mountain series were transferred to the Western Star. The Coulee series retained there River series numbers with the new names 1190 CHOTEAU COULEE 1191 TWELVE MILE COULEE 1192 CORRAL COULEE 1193 ROCKY COULEE CB&Q 1194 TRAIL COULEE and 1197 GRAND COULEE. The five GN owned Coulee series observations were withdrawn from the Empire Builder in December 1967 and each was rebuilt to a straight 68 seat coach numbered 1300 - 1304. The CB&Q car was not rebuilt. The MOUNTAIN series remained in Western Star service even after being combined with the Fast Mail. It always looked strange to see a perfectly good observation in the middle of a train with storage mail cars trailing it. Several of the Mountain series became part of a restaurant in Tukwila WA. after GN service and one ended up in Walla Walla as an Insurance Office for several years.
I just don't know the exact date the Empire Builder stopped carrying an observation.
AL - in - Stockton
Feb. 1, 1960, except in the summer 1960-66.
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/7/7/4/8774.1152248400.jpg
http://www.johnmelby.com/images/EmpireBuilder.jpg
wanswheel Feb. 1, 1960, except in the summer 1960-66. http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvn-jpgs/RVN12609.jpg http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/7/7/4/8774.1152248400.jpg http://www.johnmelby.com/images/EmpireBuilder.jpg
Thanks for the photo it brought back a flood of memories from my distan youth.
You're welcome. It was August 1966. First picture was car 1190 Mississippi River glistening new in 1947. Interior views if the labels are right:
http://www.life.com/image/tlp674982
http://www.life.com/image/tlp674981
1929 observation car again:
1929 http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth28631/m1/1/med_res/
Nice photos! I had no idea that an obs. car dating back to the 1920s could have no rear deck(if that's the right word), only a diaphragm.
al-in-chgo Nice photos! I had no idea that an obs. car dating back to the 1920s could have no rear deck(if that's the right word), only a diaphragm.
wanswheel Feb. 1, 1960, except in the summer 1960-66.
We've already gotten the history of the beautiful observations cars - converted to coaches. Ouch!
Wanswheel take the next question.
Doublechecked and it certainly was Feb.14, Jack Benny's birthday.
http://images2.tobaccodocuments.org/snapshot_atc/w750r0/0060233253_p23.png?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.tobaccodocuments.org%2Fcgi%2Ftif2png.pl%3Ffn%3Dn%253A%252Ffilesets%252Fsnapshot_atc1%252FATCO05%255CDOCS-150%255C466%252F0060233253.TIF%26antialias%3D1%26page%3D23
http://images2.tobaccodocuments.org/snapshot_atc/w750r0/0060233253_p24.png?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.tobaccodocuments.org%2Fcgi%2Ftif2png.pl%3Ffn%3Dn%253A%252Ffilesets%252Fsnapshot_atc1%252FATCO05%255CDOCS-150%255C466%252F0060233253.TIF%26antialias%3D1%26page%3D24
Who designed and built the Lucin Cutoff?
wanswheel Doublechecked and it certainly was Feb.14, Jack Benny's birthday. http://images2.tobaccodocuments.org/snapshot_atc/w750r0/0060233253_p23.png?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.tobaccodocuments.org%2Fcgi%2Ftif2png.pl%3Ffn%3Dn%253A%252Ffilesets%252Fsnapshot_atc1%252FATCO05%255CDOCS-150%255C466%252F0060233253.TIF%26antialias%3D1%26page%3D23 http://images2.tobaccodocuments.org/snapshot_atc/w750r0/0060233253_p24.png?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.tobaccodocuments.org%2Fcgi%2Ftif2png.pl%3Ffn%3Dn%253A%252Ffilesets%252Fsnapshot_atc1%252FATCO05%255CDOCS-150%255C466%252F0060233253.TIF%26antialias%3D1%26page%3D24 Who designed and built the Lucin Cutoff? Mike
The Lucin cutoff was designed and built SP Chief Engineer William Hood. Construction began on the shortcut across the Great Salt Lake in February 1902 and opened for service on March 8, 1904 becoming one of the Railroad Wonders of the World.
Al, yes your turn. William Hood also designed the Tehachapi Loop.
passengerfanThe Lucin cutoff was designed and built SP Chief Engineer William Hood. Construction began on the shortcut across the Great Salt Lake in February 1902 and opened for service on March 8, 1904 becoming one of the Railroad Wonders of the World.
And, at last, Promontory Point (on the lake) had a railroad running through it! It is truly sad to see someone write that the CP and UP met at Promontory Point; even some around here have written this nonsense, not knowing their local geography.
wanswheel Al, yes your turn. William Hood also designed the Tehachapi Loop.
My question is during the streamlined car building frenzy of the thirties to late fifties how many RRs had fully painted Budd Stainless Steel cars. I dont mean just the letterboards or the window panels but the entire car was painted to match there non-Budd stainless steel cars. Name the RRs will be enough but if you know the car types thats even better?
passengerfanhow many RRs had fully painted Budd Stainless Steel cars.
The SP had 44 seat coaches #2362 & 2363, but they were painted in armor yellow "city of".
The MP had several (most) cars in the Colorado Eagle set (including the 10-6 Eagle series) that were painted Eagle colors.
The GN added Budd built cars to the mid century builder in 1955. These were the domes. They were painted in Empire Builder, Big Sky, and later BN green. The full domes got several experimental BN paint jobs. Later the GN purchased some Frisco diners that got painted big sky.
Ummmmm, .... can't think of any others. Most were stainless with some sort of sash.
Texas Zepher passengerfanhow many RRs had fully painted Budd Stainless Steel cars.Well I'll start with the Northern Pacific. The dome coaches and dome sleepers added to the NCL in 1954 were all painted appropriately (which also means these cars were painted IC, and carried BN green). This is interesting since the NP did not paint the slumbercoaches (24-8 duplex sleepers) but left them stainless..? The SP had 44 seat coaches #2362 & 2363, but they were painted in armor yellow "city of". The MP had several (most) cars in the Colorado Eagle set (including the 10-6 Eagle series) that were painted Eagle colors. The GN added Budd built cars were added to the mid century builder in 1955. These were the domes. They were painted in Empire Builder, Big Sky, and later BN green. The full domes got several experimental BN paint jobs. Later the GN purchased some Frisco diners that got painted big sky. Ummmmm, .... can't think of any others. Most were stainless with some sort of sash.
The GN added Budd built cars were added to the mid century builder in 1955. These were the domes. They were painted in Empire Builder, Big Sky, and later BN green. The full domes got several experimental BN paint jobs. Later the GN purchased some Frisco diners that got painted big sky.
Al in Stockton
The first "South Wind" was Budd-built (owned by PRR) and was painted Tuscan Red.
KCS had some second-hand Budd-built observation cars that were painted black with red and yellow trim.
CSSHEGEWISCH The first "South Wind" was Budd-built (owned by PRR) and was painted Tuscan Red. KCS had some second-hand Budd-built observation cars that were painted black with red and yellow trim.
ZephyrOverlandHow about sleepers in Union Pacific yellow and Norfolk and Western Red?
Thats two more brings us to nine but I can't count either because my list says twelve so we have three more to go that I know of.
The L&N had some lightweight, stainless steel sheathed coaches that were painted in their shade of blue, but these were repaints, and not Budd cars.
Don't know if they'd count or not.
Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA
AWP290 The L&N had some lightweight, stainless steel sheathed coaches that were painted in their shade of blue, but these were repaints, and not Budd cars. Don't know if they'd count or not. Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA
Nice try but the L&N cars do not count as they were not Budd built cars.
passengerfanZephyrOverlandHow about sleepers in Union Pacific yellow and Norfolk and Western Red?Thats two more
Then continuing I'm going to guess the NYC. The Budd built 22 roomettes Harbor series delivered for the 20th Century in April-June of 1949, the 10-6 Valley's, and the 6 bedroom buffett lounges (stream series), and the 5 double bedroom buffet/lounge Observations (brook series). I say guess because I don't have any pictures of them, but I would assume that the "new" 20th Century is not going to break its look by having a stainless car cut in among all the two-tone grey. Even if not these the NYC had such a huge fleet surely at least one among them got painted.
Thought that might be the case.
This is an interesting question.
Bob
Then I'm going to have to go with the Canadian National - former GN domes, and the SP&S with their pool cars such as dome 559 for the North Coast limited. Painted in Lowey two-town green, then SP&S own truly ugly Pullman Green & Yellow .
http://trainweb.org/DOMEmain/picSPS559g.jpg
http://trainweb.org/DOMEmain/picSPS306z.jpg
How many were we still needing? New York Susqhanna & Western had a full dome painted in a nasty red & yellow scheme. Do more "modern" railroads count like Conrail, Norfolk Southern, BN executive fleet. They also have painted full domes in various colors.
Then the SP&S car above moved to Alaska.
Texas Zepher passengerfanZephyrOverlandHow about sleepers in Union Pacific yellow and Norfolk and Western Red?Thats two moreAl, Can you please tell us which UP cars these were? UP were such big ACF customers I didn't find any Budd in their fleet. Of course their fleet was so large, I'm certain they are in my list just so few they were not obvious. Then continuing I'm going to guess the NYC. The Budd built 22 roomettes Harbor series delivered for the 20th Century in April-June of 1949, the 10-6 Valley's, and the 6 bedroom buffett lounges (stream series), and the 5 double bedroom buffet/lounge Observations (brook series). I say guess because I don't have any pictures of them, but I would assume that the "new" 20th Century is not going to break its look by having a stainless car cut in among all the two-tone grey. Even if not these the NYC had such a huge fleet surely at least one among them got painted.
passengerfanThe UP sleepers were the fifty PACIFIC series 10-6s built by Budd.
There were also 20 coaches--5508-5527, delivered in 1961, and 9 RPO's, 5903-5911, delivered in 1963.
Pacific Castle figures in the life of my wife and me. I spent the night in a roomette from Washington to St. Louis in July of 1971; my wife (before we married) spent a night in a roomette from Chicago to Birmingham, in May of 1972 (I rode the northbound up to Decatur and then sat in the roomette with her between there and Birmingham)--and we spent a night in a bedroom from Washington to Birmingham in the spring of 1989. A redcap took us down to the train on his cart in Washington, and we were pleased as we passed Pacific Sands and saw that we would be in Pacific Castle.
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter