Pacific Electric and Toronto Transit Commission?
Mark
As far as I know, the only mu cars that Toronto Transporation Commission had were and are the several varieties of subway cars, certain double-end arch roof end-door interurban cars that may have not even kept their couplers and mu capabilities when merged into the TTC system, and the post-WWII PCC cars, some built new, some second-hand from Cleveland, specificalliy for Bloor-Danforth, but then used in two-car trains on King, now replaced by ARLV and CLRV cars, which I think have mu capability but which is seldom used in regular service. All their non PCC Peter Witt cars that were not PCC's, and most PCC's were not mu. And all motor streetcars that TTC purchased, Peter Witts, PCC's, CLRV's and ALRV's. were single-end. All TTC motor double-end cars came from predicessor operations, and there were enough to handle remaining short shuttles and interurban operations that required double-end cars. Indeed, some double-enders were converted to single-end, including a number of combination 4-motor cars with 2-motor blind motor-trailers. Most of these were replaced by regular small and large Peter Witts, even before the first PCC arrived around 1938. The longest lasting train streetcar operation was with large Peter Witts hauling lighweight center-door trailers on Young Street until the f irst subway was opened in the post-WWII era. The trailers may have been double-end, and I can check on this, but the motor cars were all single-end.
ALL PE cars were mu (with its vast fleet of heavyweight railroad-sized steel and wood cars) except for Birneys and a few others. Again, all were double-end. The double end Peter Witts were the Watts Local and Hollywood lightweight cars, and the Glendale-Burbank PCC's bought when Cal. PUC forced PE to continue service on this line. Rcd was under and over the right answer because LARy did share track (one of three rails) and wire with PE in places. I still don't understand how he missed PE!
If you had not mentioned Toronto, you might have been the winner. Now I have to give it to rcd. He did two out of the three right, even if the second required a bit of prodding.
and Gary Railways did have more than two double-end Peter Witt style cars, so possibly i should have allowed that answer. See the other thread for more Pittsburgh comments.
Most of my Pittsburgh stuff is PAT-era PCC or later. I'll have to dig into the other sections in my Pittsburgh books.
If any postwar Pullman configuration could be described as standard it would be the 10 rmt 6 dbr. In the early 1950s Pullman created several series of cars that were intended to be standards for new cars, with sections, roomettes, bedrooms and compartments in various combinations Two set of all-room cars were built in 1954 with slightly lower capacity than 10-6s, one group of seven cars for a western railroad, and a pair of cars for an eastern railroad. Configuration, railroads, and (extra) any car names of these two types.
I don't have the information at hand to answer the question. But I would still like some explanaition of how you could forget PE's double-end PCC's and Hollywood-Watts cars while knowing about the two LARys experimentals? That occasionally must have shared a rail and overhead wire with the Watts PE cars?
Not that I cannot be guilty of the same kiind of mental block. Here I have been mentioning the four systems with fleets of double-end cars with the Peter Witt door arrangement: Brooklyn, Pittsburgh, Pacific Electric, and Third Avenue. And forgetting one that I knew well: West Penn, a fifth, who rebuilt all its (all double-end) center door cars to (all double-end) Peter Witt configuration for one-man operation. (In addition, Brooklyn did this to its single-end 5000-sereis cars, but not a very pretty or good conversion like WP.)
I have a color photo of PE's Hollywood cars on my office cube wall as I write this. Sometimes it's hard to see things up close. My thinking of Peter Witt cars also excluded on-man setups (like Pittsburgh) and non-cash fare setups (like PE's Hollywood cars).
Of the two series of sleepers I'm looking for the two car pair had a room count that could be confused with a common prewar streamlined car all-room configuration.
Don't all jump in at once. I will be out of town until Monday, and will check in then.
rcdrye Of the two series of sleepers I'm looking for the two car pair had a room count that could be confused with a common prewar streamlined car all-room configuration.
Would these be the 12 Rmt, 2 Single BR, 3 Double BR cars that were added to CNW No's. 514 and 515 running between Chicago and Rochester in the late 40's or early 50's?
KCSfan Would these be the 12 Rmt, 2 Single BR, 3 Double BR cars that were added to CNW No's. 514 and 515 running between Chicago and Rochester in the late 40's or early 50's? Mark
Those were actually rebuilt heavyweights. The cars I'm looking for were built in 1954 with a room count that would have been found in a car built in 1938-1941 (thought the floor plan was a bit more modern)
A further hint is that both of the railroads that received these cars were second-tier passenger carriers. With all beds occupied, both types of cars slept 20.
Since no one wants to try this one...
Rock Island received two series of 8 rmt 6DBR cars in 1954, all built to plan 4195 in lot 6944. Five were for the Golden State (Golden Horizon, Golden Journey, Golden Meadow, Golden Spire and Golden Tower). Seven were built for Rocky Mountan Rocket and Twin Star Rocket service (Air Force Academy, The Broadmoor, Rampart Range, Turquoise Sky, Lake Nokomis, Buffalo Bayou and San Jacinto).
The cars that would be confused with prewar cars were 10 rmt 5 DBR cars built for the Erie (Pride of Youngstown, Spirit of Youngstown)
So changing gears a bit: This rapid transit line in a medium size city featured both subway and surface operation, ran left handed on its two passenger tracks and featured a third freight track.
Rochester Subway, Rochester NY?
I think Northwesst has got the answer.
Northwest rings the bell. The Rochester Subway ran largely in the abandoned bed of the Erie Canal, running left-handed to allow for center platforms. Interurbans also used the Subway. Freight operations were on the third track using a homebuilt box-on-flat motor. Passenger service by interurbans ended in the 1930s, but Subway operation continued until 1956, with freight operation lasting a month longer than passenger operation. A remnant was taken over by the B&O ond operated into the 1980s.
Only one Baldwin switcher was ever built with dynamic brakes. Name the model, customer, and road number.
Baldwin-Lima-Hamilton S8 built 3/1952 for Medford Corporation (Baldwin SN 75481, MedCo road # 8). Baldwin 608NA engine (non-turbo), Westinghouse electricals.
Later sold to Magma Arizona as their #8. Now back in Oregon with the Southern Oregon Chapter NRHS.
Yes, your question.
Rob:
I have a question about two names applied to the above cars: "The Broadmore" and "Rampart Range". what were they named for?
Wikipedia says that Buffalo Bayou is in Houston and San Jacinto was a battle.
Thanks,
Ed Burns
NP Eddie Rob: I have a question about two names applied to the above cars: "The Broadmore" and "Rampart Range". what were they named for? Wikipedia says that Buffalo Bayou is in Houston and San Jacinto was a battle. Thanks, Ed Burns
The Broadmoor is or was a famous hotel in Colorado Springs or thereabouts. I'm sure Rampart Range is a part of the Rockies. The cars assigned to the Twin Star Rocket ran from the Twin Cities to Houston, Texas so the Texas themed names make sense. The battle of San Jacinto was not too far from what's now Houston during the Texas war for independence in 1836 (Remember the Alamo?)
From Wikipedia (and I will vouch for its veracity here): "
The Battle of San Jacinto, fought on April 21, 1836, in present-day Harris County, Texas, was the decisive battle of the Texas Revolution. Led by General Sam Houston, the Texian Army engaged and defeated GeneralAntonio López de Santa Anna's Mexican army in a fight that lasted just 18 minutes. About 630 of the Mexican soldiers were killed and 730 captured, while only nine Texans died.[3]
Santa Anna, the President of Mexico, was captured the following day and held as a prisoner of war. Three weeks later, he signed the peace treaty that dictated that the Mexican army leave the region, paving the way for theRepublic of Texas to become an independent country. These treaties did not specifically recognize Texas as a sovereign nation, but stipulated that Santa Anna was to lobby for such recognition in Mexico City. Sam Houston became a national celebrity, and the Texans' rallying cries, "Remember the Alamo!" and "Remember Goliad!" became etched into Texas history and legend."
This battle was a final response to the defeat in San Antonio.
Johnny
The Broadmore is a hotel in Colorado Springs, have stayed there and done consulting work fo them, all some 50 years ago. Cerainly by now most of the systems i designed for their flexible conference center have been replaced by more modern ones, but the acoustical design probably remains.
Posted a few yeas ago, rode the mixed from Wichita to Herendon in the through Colorado Eagle Pullman, then ticketed in the roomette to Colorado Springs, but the porter didn't wake me up in time, hurridly dressed, conductor stopped the train at the Palmer Lake tower, operator going off duty drove me back to Colorado Springs.
Leonard Bernstein, of Rio Grande Zephyr fame, retired in Colorado Springs with his second wife Dorothy.
Rob, it is your question.
These two railroads that cooperated on some runs had jointly owned articulated train sets and cars. One of them also had trainsets (and some car sets) that were jointly owned with a third railroad, while the other had a large number of two and three car articulated sets. What are the railroads, and examples of the cars or trains.
The original City of Los Angeles, City of Portland, and City of Denver were primarily articulated sets; the Challenger had coach pairs. Apparently the C&NW was a joint owner with the UP. The original City of San Francisco, which also was a primarily articulated set, was a three road operation, with the SP handling it west of Ogden. The M-10000 had an articulated set of cars.
The SP had articulated car sets in service on the (Morning) Daylight, the Noon Daylight, the San Joaquin Daylight, the Lark, the Cascade, the Shasta Daylight, and the Sunbeam. Some of these were simply coach pairs, others were lounge-diner-kitchen/dormitory or coffee shop sets.
UP and SP were nearly tied for the number of articulated cars. On the breakup of joint ownership UP ended up with all of the articulated parts of the early Streamliners. SP had the largest collection of articulated cars used with ordinary cars, and operated some of them into the 1970s, even selling a couple of pairs to Amtrak which used them on the original San Joaquin. In addition to the cars for the Daylights SP also had articulated pairs built for the Challenger and the Californian. The three unit diner-lounge sets for the Cascade were the only postwar units.
Man of the Daylight-painted cars that were built with fluted side panels were rebult with flat stainless steel panels in the 1950s, which, with the red SP stripe across the letterboard, earned them the local name "Tomato Cans".
All yours, Johnny!
Deggesty The M-10000 had an articulated set of cars.
The M-10000 had an articulated set of cars.
M-10001, too, a little bit longer train
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA6xfYeHH3Y
Sorry to be so long in proposed a new question.
What train carried a 5 DB Buffet Lounge Observation that had the same name as the train?
Wednesday morning, I am leaving on a two week trip (starting and ending by train, with driving in between).
Deggesty What train carried a 5 DB Buffet Lounge Observation that had the same name as the train?
Johnny, I think the car was the Royal Palm which ran between Cincinnati and Jacksonville in the SR's train of the same name.
Mark, you have the right train and the right car.
I do not know, offhand, any other instance of a car with the same name as the train it was assigned to.
I just thought of the instance which Conductor Moedinger reported, of a man high in the Philadelphia Pullman office who knew what cars would be assigned any particular train in his dominion--the man asked the conductor WHY was certain car on one of the trains the conductor was working on.
Incidentally, on my last trip I rode the same consist from Salt Lake City to Chicago and from Sacramento to Salt Lake City, but not in the same sleeper.
I'll stick with the SR for my next question.
In the early 1930's the Southern Railway System included 50 miles of 3' gauge trackage. Where was this narrow gauge located and what became of it?
50.4 miles from Claremont Wharf, on the James River, to James River Jct., 3.7 miles east of Emporia; apparently there was a third running rail coming out of Emporia since the mixed train ran from Emporia to Claremont Wharf and back. Apparently this line was never widened to standard gauge, but was abandoned.
Where did the Blue Grass Special run?
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