A 1921 OG (page 33) shows 50 miles of 3' with a balance of 4' 8 1/2" and 4' 9". I am curious where the 4' 9" gauge was!
Ed Burns
Southern railroads were genrally built to five-foot gauge, not 4'-8.5". Over one weekend around 1875,, don't remember the exact date, they all converted to 4'-9". This did not pose a problem in interchanging standard gauge equipment. Generally, only one rail was moved. I believe the reason for the extra half inch was that otherwise the new outer spike hole in an existing tie would be too close to the old inside hole for the structural integraty of the tie. In most cases eventually tie and rail replacement allowed the final move to standard gauge.
Deggesty 50.4 miles from Claremont Wharf, on the James River, to James River Jct., 3.7 miles east of Emporia; apparently there was a third running rail coming out of Emporia since the mixed train ran from Emporia to Claremont Wharf and back. Apparently this line was never widened to standard gauge, but was abandoned.
50.4 miles from Claremont Wharf, on the James River, to James River Jct., 3.7 miles east of Emporia; apparently there was a third running rail coming out of Emporia since the mixed train ran from Emporia to Claremont Wharf and back. Apparently this line was never widened to standard gauge, but was abandoned.
You've nailed it Johnny. I haven't been able to confirm it but you're probably right about the line never being widened before it was abandoned.
Mark
Mark, the APV atlas with Appalachia shows it have been narrow gauge when it was abandoned. Apparently there was not much business, and it was well handled by one mixed train a day each way--so, why move the rail?
Johnny
SPV, not APV.
Deggesty Where did the Blue Grass Special run?
Where did the Blue Grass Special run?
I missed it at the time but looking back I see where Johnny asked this question.
The only Bluegrass that I know of was a Monon train that ran between Chicago and Louisville. But AFAIK that train was called just the Bluegrass not the Bluegrass Special so it may not be the train Johnny is asking about.
Right, Mark, it definitely was another train on another road. It is interesting to me that it left its origin about 2:30 in the morning and took about five hours to reach its destination. As I recall, it started home about 4:30 in the afternoon, and again took about five hours to get home (I am in Wilmington, N.C., right now, and cannot check the times)
KCSfan Deggesty Where did the Blue Grass Special run? The only Bluegrass that I know of was a Monon train that ran between Chicago and Louisville. But AFAIK that train was called just the Bluegrass not the Bluegrass Special so it may not be the train Johnny is asking about. Mark
There were several Blue Grass Specials:
Louisville Southern - Louisville-Lexington
PRR - Chicago-Louisville
SR - Cincinnati-Lexington-Danville
Look forward to your question, ZO
The Chicago and North Western and New York Central had at least two pairs of trains that utilized similar names, but were not used concurrently.
The 2 names, destinations and approximate time periods the names were used.....
I believe one of the pairs was named the Fast Mail. NYC No. 9, the Fast Mail ran between Buffalo and Chicago in the 1940's and the CNW Fast Mail ran between Cedar Rapids and Chicago.
KCSfan I believe one of the pairs was named the Fast Mail. NYC No. 9, the Fast Mail ran between Buffalo and Chicago in the 1940's and the CNW Fast Mail ran between Cedar Rapids and Chicago. Mark
That would qualify as one of the answers, but the two I'm looking for were more unique. They also both had an Atlantic Express and Pacific Express.
Hint - the C&NW names existed in the same time frame.
Also each of the two roads had a Chicago Express which isn't a unique name at all so I doubt that's what you're looking for. The CNW's Chicago Express ran between Omaha and Chicago and the other was a joint NYC/CP train running between Montreal and Chicago. I Believe it ran over the Central's Michigan Central between Chi and Detroit and then the CASO northeast of Detroit to a junction with the CP.
KCSfan Also each of the two roads had a Chicago Express which isn't a unique name at all so I doubt that's what you're looking for. The CNW's Chicago Express ran between Omaha and Chicago and the other was a joint NYC/CP train running between Montreal and Chicago. I Believe it ran over the Central's Michigan Central between Chi and Detroit and then the CASO northeast of Detroit to a junction with the CP. Mark
Mark,
Again, technically, Chicago Express would qualify but it isn't the name I'm looking for.
Here's another hint - one of the names is usually associated with NYC.
Amtrak revived the name of the NY Central's Lake Shore Limited, which started as a Cleveland - Chicago train and soon became a NY - Chicago train, possibly at times with a Boston section, and without checking, was discontiniued in the '30s. I suspect the CNW also had one, but I have not been able thus far to determine when and where.
daveklepper Amtrak revived the name of the NY Central's Lake Shore Limited, which started as a Cleveland - Chicago train and soon became a NY - Chicago train, possibly at times with a Boston section, and without checking, was discontiniued in the '30s. I suspect the CNW also had one, but I have not been able thus far to determine when and where.
Sorry Dave, the Lake Shore Limited is not one of the names I'm looking for.
ZephyrOverland The Chicago and North Western and New York Central had at least two pairs of trains that utilized similar names, but were not used concurrently. The 2 names, destinations and approximate time periods the names were used.....
I'm going to end this question since Mark came up with two train names that would technically qualify for the question.
The names I was looking for were:
Pacemaker (C&NW 1934; NYC 1939-1960's)
World's Fair Special (C&NW 1934; NYC 1890's, early 1960's)
The C&NW Pacemaker was a sort of a prelude leading up to The "400" while their World's Fair Special was a Minneapolis-Weyville train that connected to one of their Rochester trains.
Mark, we await your question.....
As late as 1944, the Pennsylvania RR operated a 28 mile, 3' gauge branch. What was the route of this narrow gauge line and what was its name prior to the PRR acquiring it?
Waynesburg and Washington in southwest PA. The corporate shell later owned either RS27s or C425s.
The W&W is correct. The PRR converted it to standard gauge in 1944. The rails were finally taken up by Conrail in 1978. The line had such sharp curves that the center drivers of its Moguls had to be blind to keep them from derailing.
KCSfan The W&W is correct. The PRR converted it to standard gauge in 1944. The rails were finally taken up by Conrail in 1978. The line had such sharp curves that the center drivers of its Moguls had to be blind to keep them from derailing. Mark
The Alco road switchers were painted in Pennsy colors, and may never have actually run on the W&W.
Both the large downtown station and the railroad that shared its name were overbuilt for the traffic they generated in the early days, with the ralroad entering bankruptcy only four years after opening. The station's tracks, which were built to handle trains on the owning line to connections for the west, ended up handling only local trains until 1931. The station and its associated bridge remained until 1946, when the bridge burned. The station was torn down in the 1950sin one of the earlier examples of urban renewal. The city was a large generator of railroad traffic, but this railroad skirted its edge and only got the traffic fom connections.
The railroad involved was part of a transcontinental scheme. The bankruptcy was partly related to the cost of completing the westernmost component.
Rob and all:
Are you looking for the MILW Railroad?
As information, I saw the NS "Pennsylvania" locomotive on westbound oil empties in Coon Rapids, MN.
in 1909, the "Milwaukee", was still the "St. Paul". The railroad and station I'm looking for combine the name of a "fallen flag", the name of the city, and a common designation for a city station.
The railroad in question is the Wabash Pittsburgh Terminal, later absorbed into P&WV. It was part of George Gould's scheme to build a true transcon involving Western Maryland, Nickel Plate, Missouri Pacific, Rio Grande and Western Pacific.
CSSHEGEWISCH The railroad in question is the Wabash Pittsburgh Terminal, later absorbed into P&WV. It was part of George Gould's scheme to build a true transcon involving Western Maryland, Nickel Plate, Missouri Pacific, Rio Grande and Western Pacific.
Quite correct. The WPT Terminal occupied most of what is now Point Park in Pittsburgh. It remained in place as P&WV's access to its freight house after passenger service ended in 1931. When the bridge over the Monongahela burned in 1946, all of the P&WV's downtown trackage was abandoned. The bridge and terminal building came down in the early 1950s. In addition to the roads named above, the Philadelphia and Western was part of Gould's empire, with a westward extension planned to parallel the PRR and meet up with either the WM or the WPT. The Gould empire collapsed in 1908, at least in part because of the cost of building the WP.
It's been over two weeks since there's been any activity on this thread so I'm going to throw out a question to keep it from dying.
Until the early 1940's there were two 3' gauge railroads both of whose names contained the name of the same state. One was located in, and derived its name from, that state but the other did not. What were these two NG roads?
Nevada County Narrow Gauge
California and Nevada
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