A hint to ponder.
The end points of this train's run were just under 75 miles apart.
Mark
rfpjohn I'm going to guess the Muskogee Lines. Midland Valley-Kansas-Oklahoma & Gulf, between Witchita, Kansas and Denison, Texas.
I'm going to guess the Muskogee Lines. Midland Valley-Kansas-Oklahoma & Gulf, between Witchita, Kansas and Denison, Texas.
No. At the time of this question there was no longer passenger service on either the Midland Valley or Oklahoma City Ada Atoka. However the KO&G did still run a motor between Muskogee and Denison.
daveklepper Were either or both or these railroads either Pinsley or Salzburg properties?
Were either or both or these railroads either Pinsley or Salzburg properties?
No, but you've got the right idea. They were often referred to as xxx railroads or properties. xxx being a family name.
Not long before WW2 two railroads teamed up to run a through interline motor train. This was an odd service to be introducing at the time. One of the railroads was family owned and a member of that family was appointed Receiver of the other road in 1939. Name the two railroads and the end points of the motor train route.
I'll give you the answer but the arrangement is a lawyer's and accountant's nightmare. The line was owned by Kensington & Eastern, a 100% owned subsidiary of Illinois Central. K&E leased the line to Indiana & Kensington, a 100% owned subsidiary of South Shore. I&K sub-leased the line to South Shore for operation. Source of all of this is a Moody's Transportaion Manual from the 1970's.
KCSfan, your question.
Kensington & Eastern - Leased from IC by CSS&SB
Ownership question: Who was the actual owner of South Shore's Illinois trackage from Kensington to the State Line and what was the arrangement under which South Shore operated this trackage?
As long as we are "somewhat" on the topic of Cleveland Union Terminal, I offer this download. the dedication booklet from 1930 for CUT. Interesting stuff.
In reality, only the NKP and NYC/ CCC&STL ever recieved the full benefit from CUT and provided the money to operate it. Nevertheless, in the annals of RR structures and systems...it is an icon.
http://www.clevelandmemory.org/cut-coll/book/dedbk.pdf
CUT electrics became P-motors in the New York electification zone in the 1950s.
CSSHEGEWISCHI will say New York suburban zone, Detroit River Tunnel and Cleveland Union Terminal. The fourth electrification is Niagara Junction.
You had the answer I was looking for, but I apparently was incorrect about how the CUT locomotives were lettered. I thought that in the later days they were lettered "New York Central System" like the Michigan Central electrics, but I cannot find any evidence of that. With my appologies to the group for the error you have the next question.
so- then, CUT was the fourth, the partly owned electrification. So we are still looking for the third, after Detroit Tunnel and GCT and enverons. Who provided electric locomotives for the Rochester subway freight service? WAs it the NYCentral? After the interurbns quit and it became a local operation?
NJ wasn't partly owned by NYC until after WWII. The NYC had a stretch of West Shore track between Syracuse and Utica that was third rail equipped, but I don't think they used any locomotives there. CUT stuff was lettered for CUT, not NYC.
And I think you are correct.
DS4-4-1000 New York Central and its affiliates had three separate electrifications where the locomotives were lettered for the New York Central. What were the locations. Extra points if you can name the electrification in which New York Central was partial owner and the locomotives were not lettered for the NYC.
New York Central and its affiliates had three separate electrifications where the locomotives were lettered for the New York Central. What were the locations. Extra points if you can name the electrification in which New York Central was partial owner and the locomotives were not lettered for the NYC.
I will say New York suburban zone, Detroit River Tunnel and Cleveland Union Terminal. The fourth electrification is Niagara Junction.
You are absolutely correcdt, and I both apologize and thank you for the information. I wonder if the South Brooklyn Lackawanna yard did have a track connection with the South Brooklyn tracks on 2nd Avenue. Clearly the electrified Williamsburgh yard was isolated, accessable only by car float. I thank all of you for giving me an insite on a part of NYC railroading that was not known to me, despite my teenage explorations. I found the website history fascinating and passed it on to trolleyfans. One already thanked me.
daveklepper ut not electrified that yard may have connected with tracks of the south brooklyn, but it was their electrification, not the DL&W's.
ut not electrified that yard may have connected with tracks of the south brooklyn, but it was their electrification, not the DL&W's.
Follow the links DS-4-4-1000 posted earlier in the forum. 4001 was built by GE in 1926 at Erie. The trainweb link discusses what steam may have been used there.
Here's the link again:
http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/dlwwallaboutterm.html#Roster
when was the 4001 built and what steam was used previously?
I mis-weighed 4001 as a 30 tonner. Both GE roster notes and DL&W roster notes show a weight of around 50 tons.
Look forward to your question, DS-4-4-1000 !
daveklepper As far as I know, the DL&W did not own any track in Brooklyn. Possibly a small yard in Manhattan reached by carfloat. But I am willing to learn if there was such a yard in Brooklyn. I would guess it was an upstate NY interurban line, possibly one running into the Rochester subway for a short while, and possibly once a regular branchline.
As far as I know, the DL&W did not own any track in Brooklyn. Possibly a small yard in Manhattan reached by carfloat. But I am willing to learn if there was such a yard in Brooklyn.
I would guess it was an upstate NY interurban line, possibly one running into the Rochester subway for a short while, and possibly once a regular branchline.
DS-4-4-1000 has the correct answer. GE built 30-ton inside-frame-trucked number 4001 in 1926 for DL&W's Wallabout Terminal carfloat operation in the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn. It was the only electric offline float yard in the New York Harbor (NYNH&H and LIRR were "online"). It lasted until 1941, when the Navy Department took it over to expand the Navy Yard. 4001 was 600V, pantograph equipped, and was sold to the Shawinigan Falls Ry in Canada in 1942. DL&W used float stations in Manhattan, so they didn't need a locomotive there. GE built three inside-frame-trucked steeple cabs, the other two ended up on the Hutchinson and Northern in Kansas.
rcdrye The Lackawanna had two electrifications, the suburban one in New Jersey and another one in a different state. Name the other state.
The Lackawanna had two electrifications, the suburban one in New Jersey and another one in a different state. Name the other state.
Rob:
You win. The two heavyweight repaints probably were in a shop or someone elected to have them repainted. To the best of my knowledge, the storage mail contracts were done in 1967. You are correct that Amtrak's coming prompted the BN to discontinue repainting passenger cars. "Car Names, Numbers, and Consists" has the information on BN passenger cars. Business cars were repainted as planned. I started chasing trains in the late 1950's and remember old NP baggage/storage mail cars that were not repainted Lowey green.
Next question to you.
Ed Burns
I would guess the heavyweights were for the last storage mail contracts, and repainting stopped when the contracts were dropped. The renumbering and repainting of other cars stopped in early 1971, after NRPC (Amtrak) ID'd the cars it wanted.
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