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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, September 2, 2013 7:38 PM

Two western Class I's had narrow guage operations that survived long enough to have diesel locomotives.  Carriers, Loco types and locations.  Hint:  one of them just squeaks under the 50 year limit for this thread.

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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, September 3, 2013 10:08 AM

I believe the SP had a GE(?) narrow gauge diesel switcher, No. 1, which worked the yard at Owenyo, CA and may also have run as a road engine on trains between Laws and Keeler. 

The Rio Grande had at least one narrow gauge diesel switcher, No.50, which, and I'm only guessing, probably worked the yard at Durango. If not Durango it could just as easily have been Chama, Farmington or even Alamosa.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, September 3, 2013 12:33 PM

You got 'em both.  SP 1 was a 50-ton GE diesel-electric unit delivered in 1954 used to the end of operations in 1960 as both a yard and road engine, backed up by 1912 Baldwin 4-6-0 9.  SP 1 was similar to GE units shipped to Central America and the Dominican Republic.

D&RGW bought 1937 Davenport 25-ton unit 50 from the Sumpter Valley in 1963, used it in Antonito until the end of freight service in 1970.  A feature of #50 in D&RGW service was the air cylinder and T-shaped track on each end plate to allow coupling to both narrow (bottom of T, center) and standard (top of T, one side or the other) guage cars on dual guage track.

D&RGW 50 was a diesel-mechanical unit that later operated on the Roaring Camp and Big Trees in Felton, CA, where it was often double-headed with a Heisler for a very strange set of motive power.

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Posted by narig01 on Tuesday, September 3, 2013 9:37 PM
Just an odd question did the White Pass & Yukon ever make enough money to be considered a class I ?
Mostly my curiosity. While we were on narrow gauge.

Thx IGN
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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, September 4, 2013 5:02 AM

While Northern was the generally accepted name given to 4-8-4's, at least ten other railroads gave this type of engine more regionally based names. Not surprisingly, five of the ten were southern roads. What were the ten railroads and what were the names each of them gave to their 4-8-4's?

Mark

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, September 4, 2013 10:05 AM

I'm no steam fan but I'll get it started:

NYC-Niagara

RF&P-General

NC&StL-Dixie

C&O-Greenbrier

LV-Wyoming

NdeM-Niagra

SP-Golden State

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by narig01 on Wednesday, September 4, 2013 10:11 AM
I'll throw out the 2 I know off the top of my head
New York Central - Niagara
And Lehigh Valley - Pocono
I remember reading that one of the southern roads called theirs Dixies. I do not remember which so someone else will have to provide that answer.

Thx IGN
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Posted by KCSfan on Wednesday, September 4, 2013 11:02 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH

I'm no steam fan but I'll get it started:

NYC-Niagara

RF&P-General

NC&StL-Dixie

C&O-Greenbrier

LV-Wyoming

NdeM-Niagra

SP-Golden State

Good start Paul. The ten I was looking for were all US roads but since you've mentioned the NdeM Niagaras I'll expand the question to include all North American Railroads in which case there were 12 roads that chose to call their 4-8-4's something other than Northerns. You're correct in regards to the LV's being Wyomings, it was another road that called theirs Poconos.

Does anyone happen to know the nickname given to the NC&StL's Dixies?

Mark

 

 

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Posted by NP Eddie on Wednesday, September 4, 2013 6:46 PM

Mark:

Where they the "yellow jackets"?

Ed Burns

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Posted by NorthWest on Wednesday, September 4, 2013 7:43 PM

Hello,

Big Apple: CoFG

Confederation: CN/GTW

Dixie: NC&St.L

General : RFP

Greenbrier: C&O

Golden State: SP

Niagara: NYC

Niagara: NDEM

Pocono: DLW

Potomac: WM

Western: DRGW

Wyoming: LV

Any more?

NW

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, September 4, 2013 8:42 PM

NP Eddie

Mark:

Where they the "yellow jackets"?

Ed Burns

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Ed, the NC&SL's Dixies were either "yellow jackets" or stripes, depending upon the width of the metal that was painted yellow. The first lot had the wider strip of metal, and were called "Yellow Jackets;" the second lot, constructed after wartime restrictions called for less use of non-essential metal, had a narrower strip and so were called "Stripes." Sad to say, I never saw either one, but if I had been downtown in Chattanooga at the right time of day when I was there in the summer of 1951 I might have seen one crossing Main Street.

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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, September 5, 2013 4:14 AM

NorthWest

Hello,

Big Apple: CoFG

Confederation: CN/GTW

Dixie: NC&St.L

General : RFP

Greenbrier: C&O

Golden State: SP

Niagara: NYC

Niagara: NDEM

Pocono: DLW

Potomac: WM

Western: DRGW

Wyoming: LV

Any more?

NW

That's the complete list as far as I know. I don't think "Big Apple" was an official name but instead was a nickname given to their 4-8-4's by Central of Georgia enginemen. I'm curious about the origin of the name and if anyone knows it let's hear from you.

IGN identified 2 of the 12 and Paul and NW are tied at 5 more each so which ever of you has a new question handy go ahead and post it.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, September 5, 2013 10:16 AM

KCSfan and a few others might enjoy this one:

Aside from red paint on the locomotives and the fact that they all served Kansas City, what do Chicago Great Western, Missouri-Kansas-Texas and Kansas City Southern all have in common?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by NP Eddie on Thursday, September 5, 2013 11:04 AM

Johnny:

 

Kratville, et. all "Steam, Steel, and Limiteds" has a black and white picture of a "yellow jacket" on page 152.

Ed Burns

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Posted by NP Eddie on Thursday, September 5, 2013 11:06 AM

Paul:

Was the Demaris family the connection?

Ed Burns

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P. S. for 38 years I got paid to watch trains!

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, September 5, 2013 12:02 PM

I'll give it to Ed, a member of the Deramus family occupied the president's seat of each of those roads.  Until recently, a Deramus was the CEO of Kansas City Southern.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, September 5, 2013 12:12 PM

NP Eddie

Johnny:

 

Kratville, et. all "Steam, Steel, and Limiteds" has a black and white picture of a "yellow jacket" on page 152.

Ed Burns

763-234-9306

Sorry, Ed, if you are referring to the picture of the Dixie Flagler, you are looking at a Pacific, not a Dixie.  As I recall, the yellow band on a Yellow Jacket was not as wide as the one on the Pacific. The first picture on the page shows  a Stripe; there's no excess metal below the essential metal of the running board.

There was an article in Trains several years back which featured the Dixies, and had several pictures which showed the difference between the Yellow Jackets and the Stripes.

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, September 5, 2013 1:10 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

I'll give it to Ed, a member of the Deramus family occupied the president's seat of each of those roads.  Until recently, a Deramus was the CEO of Kansas City Southern.

Not just a member of the Deramus family but William N. Deramus III who was president of the CGW 1949-57, the MKT 1957-61 and the KCS 1961-73.

His father, William N. Deramus, Jr., preceded him as president of the KCS from 1941 to 1961. His son, William N. Deramus IV was president of the KCS from 1986 to 1990.

Not surprisingly the KCS' big classification yard in Shreveport is named "Deramus Yard".

Mark

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, September 5, 2013 1:52 PM

I can't speak for M-K-T, but both CGW and KCS ran long strings of cab units on freight trains into the mid 1960s.  The CGW in particular liked A-B-B-B-B-A lashups on the line to Chicago, probably because the F3A/F7A units never did get nose MU.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, September 6, 2013 10:00 AM

rcdrye

I can't speak for M-K-T, but both CGW and KCS ran long strings of cab units on freight trains into the mid 1960s.  The CGW in particular liked A-B-B-B-B-A lashups on the line to Chicago, probably because the F3A/F7A units never did get nose MU.

The long lash-ups on heavy freights was a reflection of the Deramus operating policy of relatively few daily trains with heavy tonnage as a way of controlling costs.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by FlyingCrow on Friday, September 6, 2013 8:42 PM

AND, the Monon !    L.F. DeRamus was a direct relative whose branch of the family just spelled their name differently.    

Flying TWA routinely from KC to college at Arizona State in the 60's I'd run into "3D"  (Bill III) and his twin daughters Jill and Jean at KC Muni.   They would be on the same flight because they also went to college in AZ.      Jill eventually married the guy who sat next to me in high school home room.

Small world



AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, September 7, 2013 7:47 AM

Flyingcrow, you're up to ask the next question on the other quiz thread!

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Posted by NorthWest on Saturday, September 7, 2013 7:33 PM

NP Eddie,

You are next!

What is your question?

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Posted by NP Eddie on Sunday, September 8, 2013 2:41 PM

I am honored!!

At BNSF's Northtown Yard (Minneapolis) one piece of equipment (still in use today) was connected with NP steam engines.

What is it?

Ed Burns 763-234-9306

Happily retired NP-BN-BNSF.

Just think---I got paid to watch trains for 38 years!

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Posted by NorthWest on Sunday, September 8, 2013 2:51 PM

Ed,

Rotary Snowplow? BNSF 97255X series?

NW

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Posted by NP Eddie on Sunday, September 8, 2013 6:19 PM

NW:

 

Nope!

Ed Burns

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, September 9, 2013 3:41 AM

A locomotive tender, used to store coal or oil and/or water?

Or a water tower or a sand tower?

Or a roundhouse and/or turntable?

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Posted by NP Eddie on Monday, September 9, 2013 10:46 AM

Dave:

 

You are getting warm. Be more specific, as in Northern Pacific.

Ed Burns

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, September 9, 2013 2:47 PM

Posibly the same shop building and its associated equipment, such as a transfer  table or crane that was used for overhaul and rebuilding NP's steam locomotives is still in use today for diesel or car repair.

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Posted by NP Eddie on Monday, September 9, 2013 6:18 PM

Dave:

 


Well---you are getting closer, but no cigar. 

Let's get closer, as in a merry-go-round.

Ed Burns

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