The third one should be Lenox Avenue (IRT) closed in 1958.
Reminder, the two large shop complexes in use today are 1. Theformer BMT's at Coney Island, and 2, the former IND at 207th Street, Inwood/Washington Heights. The 3rd should be a no-brainer. The 4th was opened much earlier, was not originally built by any of the three, IRT, BMT, or IND, and after construciton was divided in half by a new street, which then resulted in a streetcar-shop connection-track grade crossing.
Miningman Didn't light up..sorry..it's a nice overhead view.
Didn't light up..sorry..it's a nice overhead view.
Johnny
Miningman https://mobile.twitter.com/barrybernstein/status/765567880087891968/photo/1
https://mobile.twitter.com/barrybernstein/status/765567880087891968/photo/1
daveklepper My new question: The New York City rapid transit system now has two large shops capable of major overhaul and rebuilding, one at Coney Island, north of Stillwell Avenue – Coney Island Station, with access to three lines directly and the Brighton (Q, B currently) via the station tracks; and the 207th Street Shops, north of that station. During WWII and for several years after, there were also two older shops. The older of the two outlasted the somewhat younger as was devoted to only one general car type on one major line (with a number of different services). In the middle of WWII, the equipment of two lines that had been overhauled at one of the two shops now shut down was transferred, for major maintenance and overhaul, to one of the existing shops. Name the two shops not now in existence. What caused the mid-WWII transfer and which lines and from where to where? Hint: One of the two lines does not exist today as a route, although all stations still see passenger service, and the situation with regard to overhaul and major maintenance remains the same of the line that still exists as essentially the same rout with the same services. Going to and from shopping and major maintenance, these trains use a crossover in each direction never in use, never was in use, by revenue trains.
https://mobile.twitter.com/barrybernstein/status/765567880087891968/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Dave K.- Yes the older one was articulated as well. Lots of pictures if you google "TTC streetcar derails"
They claim the heavy rains put a lot of debris on the tracks and between switch points. There are even some good overhead views.
I'm not absolutely sure but I believe that the IRM also has one of the ex-IRR baggage cars used for "Fast Emergency Package Service".
South Shore 1100 is now at the Illinois Railway Museum. NICTD now uses a combination of high-rail bucket trucks and a new-sytle CMV.
Contrast the old and the new....most streetcar mishaps in Toronto these days involve cyclists...quite often fatal to boot.
One of the brand new streetcars has derailed on King street at Bathurst causing a major backup on top of the heavy rain falling in the city.
The derailment caused a backup of streetcars on the eastbound lanes. The TTC has begun diverting the 504 King and 501 Queen streetcars as a result.
The Queen streetcars had already been diverting onto King St. from Shaw St. to Spadina Ave. due to ongoing watermain construction on Queen St.
The 501 route is now diverting EB via, Roncesvalles, Dundas,Spadina due to what the TTC called “an investigation onboard a streetcar at King & Bathurst.”
The 504 route is using the same alternate and the 511 Bathurst is diverting westbound via Exhibition loop to Queens Quay, Spadina and Dundas.
TTC spokesperson Brad Ross says the derailment was caused by the new streetcar pushing an older streetcar that was disabled. He says when it was making the turn at Bathurst the new streetcar’s front wheels derailed.
There are 14 shuttle buses operating right now and the TTC is hoping to clear the tracks in the next hour.
daveklepper is correct and may ask the next question.
In 1941, the South Shore purchased the three medium-weight RPO cars from the Indiana Railroad. I believe two became baggage trailers and one the line car, self-propelled.
I'm assuming that I have the next question based on my response to rcdrye's question on Peter Witt cars. The question is:
South Shore, some time after it re-equipped with the Insull heavyweights in 1926-1927, acquired three cars from another interurban. Which interurban did they come from, what was their original configuration and what was their new configuration on South Shore??
Well things evlove and improve. Toronto transit streetcars have their own right of way in many places, with streets on either side. Street trackage has made many advancements.
Anyone on a typewriter could bang out a letter faster than on their first series of Apple computers.
If you could take an interurban between, let's say, Albany and Rochester in quiet comfort while watching the parallel highway congestion it's a no brainer.
I live in the far north of Saskatchewan and Bus Parcel Express is huge up here. Many folks show up each evening at the bus depot as packages and parcels arrive with the bus passengers. The bus even carries a pup trailer behind it there is so much. Efficient for this area but further south an "interurban" between Prince Albert, Saskatoon and Regina would be very welcome. They had it at one time, lost it all. Same between Calgary and Edmonton.
Miningman Dave K. - Yes of course you are correct In a modern day application. The interurban lines were actually ahead of their time when viewed from today. A modest system whisking light freight and people between points wether in cities and towns and between them, all electrically, quietly and cleanly actually existed in considerable force. We just didn't go that way as a society.
Dave K. - Yes of course you are correct In a modern day application.
The interurban lines were actually ahead of their time when viewed from today. A modest system whisking light freight and people between points wether in cities and towns and between them, all electrically, quietly and cleanly actually existed in considerable force. We just didn't go that way as a society.
Many interurbans were lightly built and suffered on account of that. 65lb rail, unballasted track, single trolley wire, the list goes on. That many of the interurbans survived to World War I was a feat.
The biggest advantage interurbans had was a much simpler backshop. Electric cars are much simpler then steam with literally tons of steel to produce steam. The skilled manpower requirements for electric cars was a fraction of what was needed for the heavier steam roads. Of course this was undone by internal combustion engines on rubber tyres.
But at least in some places, now we are.
ASIDE FROM THE GENERAL USE OF ARTICULATED CARS, THE MAIN IMPROVEMENT FOR MODERN LIGHT RAIL OVER MOST CLASSIC INTERURBANS IS THE USE OF DEDICATED R.O.W. RIGHT INTO THE HEART OF DOWNTOWN, RATHER THAN STREETCAR TRACKS IN LANES SHARED WITH AUTOS.
One thing these questions on this thread has given me is that I have greatly expanded my knowledge of interurban's. It is truly remarkable the number of companies there were and their extent. If they were with us today as they existed in the '20's they would be heralded as the new green technology offering convenience and efficient service. They would maybe, or maybe not, have slowed down the urban sprawl a bit and kept downtown cores and nearby 'burbs vital and healthy. They certainly could replace a lot of delivery trucks and automobiles. I think they would be very popular.
It is a shame that so much was lost and so early.
CSSHEGEWISCH The operator was Chicago Surface Lines, the cars were locally known as "Sedans".
The operator was Chicago Surface Lines, the cars were locally known as "Sedans".
This large streetcar system had 100 "Peter Witt" cars, of which it built 34 in its own shops. Bonus for the local name for the cars.
SF Muni's only TT line at the 1944 MSRy takeover was the "R" Howard, a Muni takeover of a former MSRy streetcar line, itself acquired (as a cable line, quickly converted) from the Omnibus Cable Railway. A few ex-Omnibus cable cars were retained by MSRy, ending up in service on Powell-Washington/Jackson until after WWII.
The Market Street Railway's 33 line had a switchback that required "bowling alley" side bench cars so passengers didn't have to flip seats or ride backwards. Still TT, the spot where the switchback was (Market and Clayton) has lots of paint from generations of buses on the retaining wall, and a "keep clear" zone on Clayton to allow buses to turn.
I'll post a new question later today.
RC, you are correct. MUNI and NSR both operated TTs in SF, possibly the only case in the World as well as NA. In 1935 MSR converted the 33 Over-Twin Peaks streetcar line to TT, to allow one-mann operation, What other TT lines MSR operated would be new information to me, if indeed MSR did have others. IN 1939 its franchise for the 35 Howard streetcar line was not renewed, and MUNI took over and installedl its first TT line, R-Howard. No further cdonversions occur ed until after WWII, and the E-Union line was the next in 1949, combined into the 41-Howard-Union. In the end, 18 streetcar lines went TT, about the same number that went diesel bus, Third Street and Geary being the heaviest. Third Street has been restored, with the T and the heritage E. The heaviest TT operaiton is probably the several lines on Mission Street.
Look forward to yourquestion.
f
rcdrye Sounds like you're looking for San Francisco, where Market Street Railway and SF Muni both operated until 1944 when Muni took over MSRy assets. MSRy did have a couple of TT lines. Muni contracted down to five lines by the 1960s, but built the subway and has lengthened one line and added another, in addition to the "new" Market Street Railway F and E lines. Muni has been one of the largest TT operators in recent years.
Sounds like you're looking for San Francisco, where Market Street Railway and SF Muni both operated until 1944 when Muni took over MSRy assets. MSRy did have a couple of TT lines. Muni contracted down to five lines by the 1960s, but built the subway and has lengthened one line and added another, in addition to the "new" Market Street Railway F and E lines. Muni has been one of the largest TT operators in recent years.
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