Thanks!!!!
If I may, I would like to pose a quiz question in honor of Johnny Deggesty. We exchanged a number of messages over the years and one of them concerned a potential quiz question he was considering posting. I don't think he ever posted this question:
"What two trains were named for a man and his daughter?"
Anyone else have a question?
Hey, Paul, Mr. Shore, cannot you come up with a question?
The "Owl" had a leisurely schedule, built mainly around mail and express. It used SP's "West Valley" line north of Fresno, rather than the main. To the end in 1965, it carried a prewar 6 section, 6 roomette, 6 BR car in SP's 9150 series. Food service on the train was always sparse, in the end just a snack bar coach. The cars in the series came from various trains including the Lark, the Golden State and the San Francisco Overland. By 1965, all were in the "tomato can" scheme adapted from the Sunset Limited.
Over to you, Paul.
I'm going to submit the "Owl" between Oakland and Los Angeles on the San Joaquin route.
The West Coast was discontined in two pieces - between Portland and Sacramento in 1949 and between Sacramento and Los Angeles in 1960. (Despite its name it never saw the coast on its entire run.) The West Coast carried the last heavyweight sleepers in California, but open sections hung on a few more years.
The West Coast--between Los Angeles and Sacramento?
Johnny
When this train was discontinued in 1965, with it went the last sleepers with open sections in California.
rcdrye The only thing I can find in the January 1911 OG that seems to match is New York Central's LaSalle Street Limited #7, which carried cars from New York to Chicago via the LS&MS, Boston cars to Chicago via MCRR, and Cincinnati and St. Louis via the Big 4. "An extra fare is charged on this train from New York to Cleveland and Chicago." I'm guessing the target was primarily commodity traders headed for LaSalle St. Number 7 left New York an hour after the Century at 5PM, arrived in Chicago five hours after the Century at 2PM. CRI&P used the same name for overnight Omaha-Chicago train #14. The train also picked up setout Pullmans in Des Moines, Davenport and Moline.
The only thing I can find in the January 1911 OG that seems to match is New York Central's LaSalle Street Limited #7, which carried cars from New York to Chicago via the LS&MS, Boston cars to Chicago via MCRR, and Cincinnati and St. Louis via the Big 4. "An extra fare is charged on this train from New York to Cleveland and Chicago." I'm guessing the target was primarily commodity traders headed for LaSalle St. Number 7 left New York an hour after the Century at 5PM, arrived in Chicago five hours after the Century at 2PM.
CRI&P used the same name for overnight Omaha-Chicago train #14. The train also picked up setout Pullmans in Des Moines, Davenport and Moline.
That is the correct name. I suspect NYC wanted to steal some of PRR's promotional thunder in the latters opening of Pennsylvania Station. Articles mentioning the new La Salle Street Limited were focused mainly on the new war for New York-Chicago passengers between PRR and NYC. The salvo NYC used was launching the La Salle Street Limited, a train geared towards bankers and traders; the 5 P.M. departure allowed them a full workday. Some of the articles mentioned that Lake Shore/NYC was planning an eastbound counterpart by taking an existing train, Lake Shores "Lake Shore Number Six" and NYC's "Number Six", and rebranding them as the Wall Street Limited. This never occured. PRR responded to the new train by speeding up and rescheduling an existing train, the Chicago Limited, to match the schedule of the La Salle Street Limited.
The La Salle Street Limited lasted less than five months; its last trip occurred on April 15, 1911. The next day, Lake Shores portion of the La Salle Street Limited was discontinued and the trains New York departure timeslot was taken over by the Wolverine, an extra fare Chicago train running via Michigan Central.
Interestingly, in the early 1930's PRR considered renaming the Broadway Limited to the Wall Street and La Salle Street, at the suggestion of John Barringer, as a way of boosting the trains sagging fortunes.
Rock Islands La Salle Street Limited did not have the extra-fare cachet the NYC version had. It was primarily an Omaha-Chicago mid-to-late 1930's overnighter with a number of through and pickup sleepers.
Below is an ad for the new La Salle Street Limited from the New York Tribune of December 2, 1910:
Rcdrye, you have the next question...
daveklepper Was the name used by Amtrak? now?
Was the name used by Amtrak? now?
The name I'm looking for was never used by Amtrak. Note in my original question I stated the name was supposed to appeal to a desired clientle NYC was trying to attract. A possible reason why the existence of this train was brief was because the desired clientle chose to stick with the 20th Century Limited.
daveklepper AHA!! The Exposition Flyer for Chicago's Columbia Exposition, NYCentral westbound. The WP, D&RGW, CB&Q Expositin Flyer, predicessor of the California Zephyr..
AHA!! The Exposition Flyer for Chicago's Columbia Exposition, NYCentral westbound.
The WP, D&RGW, CB&Q Expositin Flyer, predicessor of the California Zephyr..
AHA!! no...
The NYC train I'm looking for began on the same day Pennsylvania Station started operation.
AND...
The train with the same name that was operated by a midwestern railroad ran eastbound only.
daveklepper Was it Atlantic Limited or Atlantic Express, Chicago - NYCity, scheduled for good connections to steamships to Europe, and Chicago = New York, later AT&SF Los Angeles - Chicago for connections to the Broadway and 20th Century?
Was it Atlantic Limited or Atlantic Express, Chicago - NYCity, scheduled for good connections to steamships to Europe, and Chicago = New York, later AT&SF Los Angeles - Chicago for connections to the Broadway and 20th Century?
No, it wasn't Atlantic-related. The NYC train was westbound-only and existed for a short time, whereas the midwestern railroad version had a longer life.
November 27, 1910 - The day Pennsylvania Station in New York was open for business...
Further uptown, New York Central wasn't sitting idly by, seeing their main compeitive advantage, as the only railroad with direct Manhattan access, evaporate. On that same date, their star train, the 20th Century Limited, received new all-steel equipment. NYC also established a new westbound-only train with a name designed to appeal to a specific desired clientele. It wasn't as fast as the Century, but nevertheless it was an extra fare train. PRR responded by rescheduling and speeding up one of their existing trains to meet the challenge of the new NYC train.
Alas, the NYC train had a brief existence. Several decades later, the same name was used by a midwestern railroad for one of their eastbound-only trains.
What was the name of the NYC train and which railroad used the same name for one of their trains? Destinations of each train also, please.
Right on! I wonder how many people actually arrived in Memphis at that horrible hour. The east-bound was better, with decent overnight hours. to connect with the Pelican, which was re-scheduled to leave Chattanooga soon after the train from Memphis arrived. Eventually, both trains were canceled.
Deggesty The Tennessean was an approximately 24 hour train between Washington and Memphis. However, in the mid-sixties, business slacked off to the extent that there was no longer a through train on this route (and the L&N no longer had through srevice New York-Memphis). What did the Southern do to provide Washington-Memphis service, using a change of trains at one point--and arrival in Memphis at a horrible time?
The Tennessean was an approximately 24 hour train between Washington and Memphis. However, in the mid-sixties, business slacked off to the extent that there was no longer a through train on this route (and the L&N no longer had through srevice New York-Memphis). What did the Southern do to provide Washington-Memphis service, using a change of trains at one point--and arrival in Memphis at a horrible time?
In mid-1966 the Washington-Chattanooga portion of the Tennessean was eliminated. Instead, passengers were directed to the New York-New Orleans Pelican which followed the same route as the Tennessean to Chattanooga. The Chattanooga-Memphis portion of the Tennessean remained, but it was rescheduled to provide a connection with the Pelican. As a result the westbound train arrived in Memphis at 2am, instead of 8am previously.
daveklepper Southener or Southern Crescemt to Birmingham and KC-Florida Express to Memphis?
Southener or Southern Crescemt to Birmingham and KC-Florida Express to Memphis?
Thanks, Overmod and RCD. Apparently, the IC needed another 10-6 on each set, and the Lackawanna/EL obliged by supplied two cars which it no longer needed.
I always enjoyed seeing the CG cars and engines painted in the IC colors, especially on the Seminole. When the IC borrowed the domes from the NP in the winter, they were, of course, painted for the IC--and repainted when the NP took them back.
My first dome ride was on the "Pannyma," from Brookhaven to Canton, in 1964 (back down on the City) My second ride was on the City of Miami, in early 1966, from Birmingham to Tifton, Georgia (and back on the Seminole).
Lackawanna 10-6s (Plan 9008A ACF 1949) Lackawanna and Pequest were repainted in IC paint 11/20/1959. Lackawanna reverted to EL paint 6/6/1960. Pequest stayed in IC paint until 6/12/1966. Data from the Pullman Project database. Since two other DL&W 10-6s were repainted into B&O paint around the same time it looks like changing business conditions made the cars available to Pullman for reassignment, and the cars were probably treated by IC and Pullman as just another couple of 10-6 sleepers.
Overmod I spent an idle hour trying to track down the EL sleeper involved here, but couldn't come any closer than the six-odd Nickel Plate cars that were a joint run-through service (probably via Buffalo, as opposed to the Lake Cities to Chicago). I have a little trouble figuring out why a service coordinated with an IC name train would involve the EL itself except as a pool-car contribution with NKP ... so have to fall back on the OG and passenger-car mavens for assistance. The other possibility, which has more speculative appeal but as yet no proof at all, is that this is a feature of the "World's Fair" train, set up to facilitate direct one-car service from all the high-ticket points on the IC to get to and from New York in '64 and '65. Surely such a thing would have been touted at the time, or noted by contemporary railfans...
I spent an idle hour trying to track down the EL sleeper involved here, but couldn't come any closer than the six-odd Nickel Plate cars that were a joint run-through service (probably via Buffalo, as opposed to the Lake Cities to Chicago). I have a little trouble figuring out why a service coordinated with an IC name train would involve the EL itself except as a pool-car contribution with NKP ... so have to fall back on the OG and passenger-car mavens for assistance.
The other possibility, which has more speculative appeal but as yet no proof at all, is that this is a feature of the "World's Fair" train, set up to facilitate direct one-car service from all the high-ticket points on the IC to get to and from New York in '64 and '65. Surely such a thing would have been touted at the time, or noted by contemporary railfans...
Well done! IC was very particular about cars on the Panama Limited and the City of Miami. Pullman's Calumet shop regularly repainted cars into and out of IC paint, including the NP domes used each winter on the City of Miami.
The IC's "own" 10-6s (5 cars) had the same basic floor plan as the ex-NKP and ex-C&O cars with the roomettes over the trucks and the Bedrooms in the middle.
The IC had its cars named in such a way that one in the know knew the accommodations in any post-war built car by looking at the name. B--11 double bedrooma; C--10-6 (IC & ex-Nkl Plate & ex-C&O "City" series)); D--10-5 (ex-NYC); G & H--4-4-2 (ex-NYC); F--22 rmtte (ex-NYC). I wish I had noticed the name of the sleeper lettered for the E-L painted in IC colors I saw once in the consist of IC #6.
This railroad, which was known particularly for one first-class train, operated several through trains with carefully matched cars even late in the pre-Amtrak era. The railroad's prewar sleeping cars had a variety of name schems, but all postwar sleepers, even those bought "used" from other railroads, had names that started with B, C, D, F, G and H.
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