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Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, November 14, 2020 10:38 PM

Serving St. Louis ("Meet me  at the Fair") other than the Terminal Railiroad of Saint Louis, and a short line that runs ex-Rock Island tracks and dates from the Rock's abandonment, there exists the West Belt Raileay, but information on it is hard to obtain.  Seems like the one you are after, however.

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Posted by rcdrye on Saturday, November 14, 2020 7:20 PM

I doubt this is the answer, but a line that sort of matches your description was the Pittsburgh Lisbon & Western.  The Pittsburgh Coal Company, owner of the Montour RR in Pennsylvania.  PCC built a private railroad from a transload at Smith's Ferry PA to Negly Ohio.  Connecting with the PL&W at Negly, coal was carried by the PL&W owned Youngstown & Southern, connecting with the Y&S at Signal Ohio.The Y&S carefully nurtured its ICC-exempt status as an interurban.  The PCC/PL&W/Y&S combo could offer Pennsylvania coal to Youngstown industries at 60 cents/ton, much lower than the competing steam roads could offer.  Eventually the Y&S lost its exemption, but by that time there was enough trafic for everybody. 

What I don't know for sure is wheter the PL&W/Y&S's steam locos matched your spec...  If not, you at least get a glimpse at the weird economics that affected interurbans.  Some of the Y&S is still around as the Youngstown & Southeastern.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, November 13, 2020 9:51 AM

One last clue ... that you'll have to work for.  This was not anywhere near Michigan, but the author of Michigan J. Frog's famous song was also known for a famous song about our target city's fair.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, November 10, 2020 10:35 AM

It can best be described as a switching-terminal railroad, and in fact was progressively developed into that from its original mission as 'alternative access' to one other railroad ... which, to make this even easier, was an electric railroad, not a class I.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 10, 2020 10:08 AM

Is the currently independently-manged railroad regional or a short-line or a switching-terminal?

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 8, 2020 4:54 AM

The railroad is notable for being built initially to connect a particular shipper to a somewhat unusual other railroad.  Only later was it expanded to connect with other -- ultimately, quite a few other -- railroads, with traffic making the locomotive in the question desirable.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, November 8, 2020 2:57 AM

Thanks, will keep trying.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, November 7, 2020 11:35 PM

No

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, November 7, 2020 2:22 PM

Is the railroad the Indiana Harbor Belt?

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:22 AM

daveklepper
Did the RR  ever provide commn-carrier passenger service?

Not to my knowledge, although it might have transported certain workers during the period of Federal control in WWII.  (That is more of a hint than a cursory reading might indicate!)

During its construction there were three separate versions of its name used within the space of about half a decade.

Were the locomotives used only as pusher, or also road freight?

Actually, not really either, in the senses you mean.

daveklepper
Mostly coal?  Iron ore?

In a sense, you almost couldn't be farther away from one of the principal things initially carried over the line.

Locomotives equipped with train-line communication and steam heat for passenger service?

Most assuredly not.  (Although a number of the 'special features' could be, and were, used on some fairly well-known passenger locomotives...)

Incidentally, the later history of the railroad involved it not being sold to a probable best-fit owner (thanks to the ICC which didn't want it to go to 'just one owner') but it wound up being wholly owned -- but separately administered to this day -- by one owner anyway.  As a big hint: this would likely not have changed if the ICC had ruled differently.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:17 AM

daveklepper
Did the RR  ever provide commn-carrier passenger service?

Not to my knowledge, although it might have transported certain workers during the period of Federal control in WWII.  (That is more of a hint than a cursory reading might indicate!)

During its construction there were three separate versions of its name used within the space of about half a decade.

Were the locomotives used only as pusher, or also road freight?

Actually, not really either, in the senses you mean.

daveklepper
Mostly coal?  Iron ore?

In a sense, you almost couldn't be farther away from one of the principal things initially carried over the line.

Locomotives equipped with train-line communication and steam heat for passenger service?

Most assuredly not.  (Although a number of the 'special features' could be, and were, used on some fairly well-known passenger locomotives...)

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, November 5, 2020 10:43 AM

It's a god question.  Any more hints?

Did the RR  ever provide commn-carrier passenger service?

Were the locomotives used only as pusher, or also road freight?

Mostly coal?  Iron ore?

Locomotives equipped with train-line communication and steam heat for passenger service?

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, November 5, 2020 9:16 AM

Last chance for the mavens before I throw the question out and seek something of perhaps greater interest...

The innovation was associated with products from an "affiliated" source.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, November 2, 2020 6:37 AM

These are lovely engines, but their improvement is little different from the 'beauty treatment' given the T&P 600s that turned them from virtual pigs to excellent toad locomotives (see the Trains articles on T&P 610 in excursion service).  What I'm looking for is considerably more unusual.  Remember the PRR precedent...

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, November 2, 2020 6:27 AM

Not having an encyclopedic knowledge of steam, I did some digging...

CGW had 2-10-4's with Bethlehem tender boosters.  Initially delivered with static counterbalancing, the wheels were later replaced with Baldwin discs that had "triangular sections adjacent to the hub" which allowed the size of of the axle and crank pin hubs to be reduced, lowering the amount of weight to be counterbalanced in the first place.  This reduced dynamic augment greatly, especially at higher speeds.  They were the backbone of CGWs fleet until the F3s and F7s began arriving.  It's notable that they could handle a train in a way that required 6 F units to replace them.

http://steamlocomotive.com/locobase.php?country=USA&wheel=2-10-4&railroad=cgw

The connection to Bevo? Corn.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 1, 2020 8:14 PM

No, the other thing is Canada Dry, but the Bevo was the thing that was close ...

Think ten-coupled with a tender booster...

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, November 1, 2020 2:47 PM

Clover Leaf Club  Soda?  That's  a St. Louis brand as well...The Clover Leaf merged into the Nickel Plate in 1922.  while NKP's berkshires didn't have boosters, their Mikes did, and were very respectable fast freight haulers in their own right.  NKP certainly got the fast freight thing down.  Relatively small cylinders with high boiler pressure seems to have been part of the formula.

Though now that I think about it the GrandTrunk Western still has its own corporate existence (At least the Grand Trunk Corporation does) and did some nice work on high-speed steam. And it has a Canada connection.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 1, 2020 2:16 PM

If this isn't interesting I'll try something different.

incidentally the other quiz thread question has things in common with this.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 11:06 PM

rcdrye
What I can't find is anything W&LE with an auxiliary locomotive...

You won't.  The answer lies elsewhere.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 6:28 PM

Wheeling & Lake Erie still has an independent existence - it was leased by the Nickle Plate (and later the N&W) until 1988, when the current incarnation was formed out of the old W&LE and some of the P&WV.

What I can't find is anything W&LE with an auxiliary locomotive...

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 5:55 PM

Further hint: the 'improvement' was related to something concerning ownership of the line.  And was not limited only to running gear...

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, October 25, 2020 5:21 PM

rcdrye
Indiana Harbor Belt?

Nifty with three cylinders for augment reduction, too... but only inherently.  And IHB's auxiliaries still had the problem that ones using the approach on the locomotive I have in mind would solve..  Keep looking... Stick out tongue

For a hint ... think of the various ways PRR tried to deal with augment concerns and did not succeed...

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, October 25, 2020 12:26 PM

Indiana Harbor Belt?  IHB had some 0-8-0s that had auxiliary engines and IHB is still an individual entity even if it's not a high-speed operation.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, October 25, 2020 12:10 PM

No, if anything the improvement would permit use of higher adhesive weight, at higher speed, well up to the limit of the wheel arrangement used.

There were other railroads that might have benefited had they retained steam.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 25, 2020 4:53 AM

Reduced adhesion and thus reduced tractive effort with reuction in the coal and water supply?

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, October 24, 2020 7:43 PM

daveklepper
What is an auxiliary locomotive ...

That was Bethlehem's name for a tender booster.
...and what was the major concern with them?
They had a characteristic that trailing-truck boosters lacked.

 

[/quote]

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, October 24, 2020 1:18 PM

What is an auxiliary locomotive and whatn was the major concern with them?

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, October 24, 2020 9:50 AM

A Midwestern road, which still survives with its own board of directors to this day, succeeded where the PRR failed in reducing dynamic augment on steam locomotives in freight service.  It appears they also solved a major concern with auxiliary locomotives at the same time.

Name the road and describe their approach.  (For extra credit, indicate why the approach was preferred over other means available at the time.)

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, October 22, 2020 12:13 PM

Still awaitimg Overmod;s question.  And when he poses one. it's always a good one!

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 18, 2020 9:24 PM

Awaiting your question and any further cimments.

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