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Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, December 19, 2020 3:22 PM

Either the Chessie or the N&W turbo-electric.  I think both could mu with diesels. 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Saturday, December 19, 2020 2:36 PM

Since no one else has posted anything for a while, here's a simple one to get this thread restarted.

Name a steam-powered locomotive that had both dynamic braking and MU capability.  A large amount of the Alton & Southern's favourite metal was also used in their construction.

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, November 30, 2020 10:47 AM

Thanks for such an informative posting.   Aluminum rods.  Wow!

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 29, 2020 11:27 PM

There is a certain amount of sneakiness (that will come as no surprise to those who read the corporate history of the A&S) in this use of aluminum as ... the aluminum company built the line, supervised its enlargements, and owned it a very long time. 

The PRR experimented with aluminum rods on that unlikely-seeming guinea pig, an I1s, in 1922.  It would make almost preternatural sense to reduce required overbalance on a locomotive of this kind, especially with no assisted guidance at the rear of the chassis; since the I1 had radical reduced cutoff (50%) it was capable of running over 50mph, at which point ... nature would be taking its course.  

Alas, the aluminum alloys of the time were incapable of tolerating reversing heavy stress.  I do not, lamentably, know the alloy changes by 1937, but I see no indication the fancy rods were removed while the locomotive ran.  

I have the same question as you about the construction of the booster.  In my opinion using light metal in those parts (which were only passively driven) would have made sense, as much as any tender booster ever did.

I honestly do not know about galvanic corrosion at any time, but I'd suspect that if any railroad had people from the 'home office' watching for the signs, this would have been it.  I do have the suspicion that the aluminum would have been chromated and painted as in aircraft practice, not left bright as in the 'publicity pictures', but I do not have pictures.

Incidentally, the A&S was originally to be sold to SSW (the 'natural acquirer') but as so often seen in this country, the ICC horned in and said two or more owners were needed -- so it went to C&NW and MoPac.  From this came the weird blue-and-yellow scheme, and the herald with the C&NW bar and the MoPac buzz saw.

Note that all three predecessor railroads are now part of UP, although they did not become so at the same time,  and UP owns 100% of the A&S but it still continues as a separate corporation with its own board of directors.

Incidentally, the spelling 'aluminum' is not only original, not only British (and by no less an authority than its discoverer!), but more correct.  Take for example the mineral 'alumina', which is the source of the metal.  It is obvious to anyone not flunking 8th-grade Latin that a metal derived from this would take the -a suffix and replace it with neuter, um.  On the other hand, take beryl (the gem) and beryllia (the amorphous material) which follows the same protocol, except it retains the formative i, to give 'beryllium'.  

In similar wise, we take 'helios' and get heli-um, "helum" making utterly no sense at all.  And -- all sarcasm aside -- it's not rocket science to see why H.G. Wells' notorious bomb element is 'carolinum' 

Yeah, I know, it falls apart with the alkali metals, and it's been a convention for a hundred years of new elements ... but still.

(Incidentally, for more grins, I note that wikipedia, that great more-English-than-the English bureaucratic boondoggle, states that 'aluminum' is the accepted spelling for Canada... Dunce)

In any case, take it away!

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Posted by SD70Dude on Sunday, November 29, 2020 11:00 PM

Good thing I'm stuck on this side of a closed border, where colour has 6 letters and you can spell element 13 any way you want.

I wouldn't deserve credit and I don't have a question ready anyway, but I am curious about how extensively Alcoa's product was used in that locomotive.  Was it just the rods or were the booster's counterweights and pistons also lightweight?

And were there any issues with galvanic corrosion as the locomotive aged?

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 29, 2020 10:36 PM

SD70Dude
Aluminium parts?

No credit until you answer the question completely  steamlocomotive.com only mentions the answer in passing.  But it isn't that hard to extract the other context...  BTW you need to use the correct spelling for United States practice.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Sunday, November 29, 2020 9:25 PM

Aluminium parts?  (EDIT: I didn't get all your dad jokes until after posting)

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/locobase.php?country=USA&wheel=0-10-0&railroad=as#13993

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 29, 2020 9:04 PM

Well, one last chance: I did not think this was a particularly heavy answer, and to be honest it isn't.  Please someone get it before I have to conclude I've been foiled.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 4:16 PM

daveklepper
St. Louis & Belleville, Wow!   I wonder how much of that interurban RoW the current  modern interurban *OK, we call it  light rail) between St. Louis and Belleville uses.

According to Scalzo, apparently none.  Peabody sold it to the IC, which apparently had parallel tracks so they tore it up in entirety and abandoned it.

https://hickscarworks.blogspot.com/2020/10/east-st-louis-suburban-railway.html?m=1

The Metro does run on ex-Wabash ROW for a bit.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 4:05 PM

St. Louis & Bellville, Wow!   I wonder how much of thar interurban RoW the current  modern interurban *OK, we call it  light rail) between St. Louis and Bellv uille uses.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 3:51 PM

rcdrye
I missed the A&S's 0-10-0 even though it did clearly have a booster.  Nothing I can find details the dynamic augment fix.  Even with 57 inch drivers they can't have been allowed much in the way of top speed.

And it didn't just shine out at you what PRR tried on 62" wheels that A&S made work?

Hint: the A&S had reasons to try to make it work.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 10:16 AM

I missed the A&S's 0-10-0 even though it did clearly have a booster.  Nothing I can find details the dynamic augment fix.  Even with 57 inch drivers they can't have been allowed much in the way of top speed.

The electric line is the St. Louis & Belleville Electric, one of the few "interurbans" that was really more interested in freight than passengers from the start.  The StL&BE was also someting of a pioneer in multi-power locomotives, with a gas-electric-electric originally built for the Illinois Central.  The passenger side was operated as the East St. Louis & Suburban.  The split was due originally to the passenger lines being constructed with the St. Louis gauge of 4' 10". The freight line was converted to standard gauge in 1901, the 85 miles of passenger lines were converted in 1905.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 6:10 AM

So, please continue with the full description.  Locomotive, technology, interurban-history.   Please!

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, November 23, 2020 5:13 PM

I give up - we'll make it a gimme.  The railroad is Alton & Southern.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, November 20, 2020 6:32 PM

The color clue does not appear to have produced enough enlightenment.  When the line was sold, both the color scheme and the herald design were a 'merger' of distinctive elements of the respective acquiring roads' locomotive schemes.

The particular blue and particular yellow already mentioned.  NOT the color of its current owner, either.

And his color/herald change is legitimately a subject for this quiz now, although any part of the final 'consolidation' isn't.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, November 19, 2020 10:50 AM

daveklepper
Was the interurban the Akron Canton & Youngstown?

That line started as an interurban???

No.  The electric line in question was merged right at the start of the 20th Century with a competing one, after which (as far as I know) it was dedicated to freight service for a particular commodity not the one that was the primary interest of the line in this question.  (With passenger service being directed to the 'other' line)  That the line was principally if not completely heavy freight only is the likeliest explanation why the initial construction of our line only went to it.  

But it was not long before our line expanded to further connections with other railroads.  With the associated multiplicity of very similar names.  

The name of the electric line contains the name of a famous washer (although not directly related). 

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, November 19, 2020 10:49 AM

daveklepper
Was the interurban the Akron Canton & Youngstown?

That line started as an interurban???

No.  The electric line in question was merged right at the start of the 20th Century with a competing one, after which (as far as I know) it was dedicated to freight service for a particular commodity not the one that was the primary interest of the line in this question.  That the line was heavy freight only is the likeliest explanation why the initial construction of our line only went to it.  

But it was not long before our line expanded to further connections with other railroads.  

The name of the electric line contains the name of a famous washer (although not directly related). 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, November 19, 2020 3:38 AM

Was the interurban the Akron Canton & Youngstown?

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 1:11 PM

No, I'm just expanding it a bit, because no one's getting the railroad, let alone the locomotive, let alone the bits that were ... unusual on it.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 12:45 PM

Sorry, thought the question was answeresd, and that you were asking a new one.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 10:14 AM

rcdrye
The Union Railroad's 0-10-2's?

Comparable in size and in effective use, but most certainly not in the principal product they were built to carry.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 9:26 AM

The Union Railroad's 0-10-2's ?

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 9:14 AM

You've forgotten about 3/4 of the clues so far.  CCT is thousands of miles west (by road).

The railroad in question should NOT be that hard to figure out.  Nor, knowing its founder and long-term owner, should be the technical innovation on its large 10-coupled steam power, accomplishing something the Pennsylvania did not succeed at doing.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 7:35 AM

Central California Traction

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 7:09 AM

The electric line in question is interesting for abandoning passenger service very early in the 20th Century to concentrate on a very different commodity from that which the question's primary railroad was involved with.  Its electric operation survived until after WWII, and it remained in operation with diesel power into the 1960s.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 15, 2020 9:44 PM

It's simpler than that.

The 'natural purchaser' had a very direct reason for owning the road, which it later realized by buying  the half-interest of one of the two ICC-approved purchasers four years or so later.

Oh yes, Jenks and Stagecoach together, not icterine.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 15, 2020 9:40 PM

Think color, and herald.  

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, November 15, 2020 5:53 PM

The Davenport Rock Island & Northwestern?  before it was jointly owned by CB&Q and CMStP&P, it connected with, and later bought part of, the Clinton Davenport & Muscatine, an interurban in Davenport which carried interchange freight on its Muscatine division.  The natural purchaser would have ben the Rock Island, but the ICC disllowed it and the CB&Q and CMStP&P ended up with it, running a Milwaukee orange stripe and a Burlington red stripe on a black paint scheme. More recently successors BN and CP split the line in half, with BN geting the Illinois side and CP getting the Iowa side.  I still haven't found the steam that matches...

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 15, 2020 12:21 PM

Not the Illinois Terminal.

 And not, so far, mentioned by you by name ... even though the whole first page of Google is filled with references to the railroad by name if you type that in.

Second to last hint: long after the time of the steam 'innovations', when the original operator decided to sell the railroad, the ICC blocked the 'natural' purchaser because they didn't want the railroad to go to a single owner.  It was later sold to two railroads who shared part of their color schemes to get the 'new' railroad's livery.  However, as things wound up, ownership would be as it is now whether or not the ICC had ruled.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, November 15, 2020 3:15 AM

The connecting electric line was the Illinois Terminal.

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