Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

[passengerfan]

Deggesty

passengerfan

Whose question?

Al, it looks as though Wanswheel (10:07 am on 10-21) gave more roads than anybody else.

Incidentally, I remember a comment to the effect that, since they were much lighter than steel cars, the aluminum cars did not "ride like Pullmans."

Johnny

Johnny the early Aluminum cars rode rough from what I have read, but having ridden a number of the postwar aluminum trains and cars I came away very favorably impressed susch as the AC&F UP postwar cars, CN Turbos, but not the Tempo cars. It was the truck dsign under the latter that gave them such a poor ride at speed. I think I have commented beore that anything over fifty was like a bucking bronc. They were perfect as the ski trains and should fit nicely on the Algoma Central where there speeds will remain low. In SW Ontario sevices they were built for higher speeds but the new truck design was not capable of handling the cars sway and pitch. Witnessed a Club car attendent spill a entire tray of drinks while trying to serve them. I have talked to few people who rode the cars when they were in SW Ontario service who had anything good to say about there ride, Th Turbos were kind of rough riding when operating slow through the switches at terminals but once above 35 mph they seemed to smooth out and it made for a very comfortable ride in the faster speed ranges.

Al - in - Stockton.     

[Deggesty]

passengerfan

Whose question?

Al, it looks as though Wanswheel (10:07 am on 10-21) gave more roads than anybody else.

Incidentally, I remember a comment to the effect that, since they were much lighter than steel cars, the aluminum cars did not "ride like Pullmans."

Johnny

[passengerfan]

Okay Here is my list of RRs that owned Aluminum Cars.

NYNH&H Comet

CN Tempo & Turbo.

B&O 1st lightweight Royal Blue transferred to Alton

GM&N Rebels

L&N Hummingbirds

NC&STL-L&N Georgians

MP Various postwar cars

T&P Various postwar cars

IGN Various postwar cars

KCS various postwar cars

UP various prewar and postwar cars

C&NW various prewar and postwar cars in City service

WAB coaches built for and assigned to City of St. Louis

Alton 2nd Abraham Lincoln 

Whose question?

I am trying to work in some much needed Vacation time and finally get a chance to try my new camera I purchased over a year ago for RR pictures and so far it has only shot family and a quick trip to San Diego. I am hoping to get away some time in the next three weeks.

Al - in - Stockton

[daveklepper]

The BMT had one Pullman-built subway-elevated aluminum train, built as an experiment about 1935.   The "Little Flower" saw it in for coupler replacement at Coney Island shops and ordered it donated to the scrap drive.  It proved when operating that elevated trains could be much quieter.   Possibly used PCC resilient wheels.   Its nickname was "The Gren Hornet>"

The BMT also had one Clark Equipment Company experimental aluminum PCC car, the only North American PCC not built by St.  Lous, Pullman, or Candian Car and Foundry.  It was built shortly after the first 1935 standard PCC's arrived from St. Louis as a replacement for one Brooklyn car that was diverted to Pittsburgh as a demonstrator and stayed there.  The St/ Lous cars were 1001 - 1099, and 1001 is restored and operating at the Branford, CT. musuem.  The aluminum car was numbered 1000.   In 1957, when Brooklyn streetcar service ceased, 1001 was already at Branford, and 1000 eventually went to Kingston, NY as part of the museum there.   I heard a rumor that because of detioriated condition, it was scrapped.  Too bad,.it pioneered standee windows.

 

Third Avenue Railway. later Third Avenue Transit, had home-built aluminum 551-600. double-end Peter Witts, used almost exclusively on Broadway-42nd Street, with their steel 601-625 Corten cousins.   They all went to Brazil in 1948, and a few have been preserved there, one operating at a museum.

 

The Cincinnati and Lake Erie "Red Devils", later on LVT's "Liberty Bell" and Crandic were aluminum.  A few have been preserved, one at Branford.

[passengerfan]

Texas Zepher

passengerfan

the Tempo cars which recently returned to Canada after a number of years serving as the Ski Train out of Denver

And ugly cars they were/are.  Very strange roof profile.

Had the pleasure of riding the Tempo cars when new they were built for fast services to southwestern Ontario to and from Toronto. They had a tendency to be very rough riding at speeds in excess of sixty mph. It was something inherent in the truck design that was never corrected. They were ideal for the ski train service from Denver as speeds never neared the sixty mark. They should also be ideal for the Algoma Central Canyon trains as speeds are not excessive in that service either. They were Canada's first HEP equipped cars and were constructed in Thunder Bay by Hawker Siddeley a name more familiar in Aviation circles particularly in the UK.

Al - in - Stockton

[wanswheel]

NH Dan'l Webster, articulated

The model trains industry seems to have produced models of aluminum cars on PRR Broadway Limited, NYC Empire State Express, MILW Olympian Hiawatha, SP Daylight, N&W unknown, and GN Big Sky dome car.

One of two Pullman aluminum cars at the 1933 Chicago World's Fair was sold to CGW in 1952, the observation sleeper George M. Pullman. 

http://bpics.rubylane.com/graphics/shops/rafterroom/061209201.7L.jpg?80

http://www.pullman-museum.org/main/prg509.jpg

http://webbie1.sfpl.org/multimedia/sfphotos/AAC-8212.jpg

City of Cheyenne, the 1933 Pullman aluminum observation coach

http://photoswest.org/photos/00019501/00019534.jpg

[Texas Zepher]

passengerfan

the Tempo cars which recently returned to Canada after a number of years serving as the Ski Train out of Denver

And ugly cars they were/are.  Very strange roof profile.

[passengerfan]

Before the CN Turbos there was the Tempo cars which recently returned to Canada after a number of years serving as the Ski Train out of Denver

Al - in - Stockton.

[wanswheel]

B&O, L&N, MP, KCS, New Haven Comet, CN Turbo

[ZephyrOverland]

passengerfan

No takers yet on the RRs that operated Aluminum lightweight streamlined cars. I came up with twelve.

Al in Stockton

 

I'll start - the Union Pacific

           - the G&MO with their Abraham Lincoln and Ann Rutledge train sets. 

[passengerfan]

No takers yet on the RRs that operated Aluminum lightweight streamlined cars. I came up with twelve.

Al in Stockton

[wanswheel]

Deggesty

Some people do like oysters.

Johnny, it's clear Arthur Stilwell would eat oysters even from the Hudson River.

http://www.arthurstilwell.com/cannibalsoffinance/15obstructivetactics.html

Stilwell designed and Pullman built the 30-ton capacity wooden tank car in 1897 to bring live oysters to Kansas City. Possibly figuring it's good for the economy of Port Arthur and it proves KCP&G's reach in a palatable way.

"The Man Who Fenced the West" filed his ICC documents: "William Dearborn, doing business as Louisiana Navigation and Railway Company."

http://www.plbg.de/lexikon/personen/images/edenborn1871.jpg

Mike

[Deggesty]

wanswheel

 Johnny, here's something:

"The Louisiana Railway and Navigation Company, organized in 1896 by William Edenborn as the Shreveport and Red River Valley Railway Co., was re-organized May 9, 1903, as Louisiana Railway and Navigation Co. It was known as the Edenborn Line and was completed and placed in operation October 1, 1906, as the short line between Shreveport and New Orleans. This line was owned outright by Mr. Edenborn, the only railroad in the U.S. owned by one individual."

I knew that the S&RVR preceded the LR&N, but I did not know that it LR&N was (apparently) simply the reorganization. I also now know why the LR&N was known as the "Edenborn Line." One of the old Guides that I have shows this in the road's representation.

the "Stillwell Oyster Car is interesting. It took me a moment to remember that the Kansas City Pittsburg and Gulf was the previous name of the KCS--and (I just discovered, in Railroad Names) the successor to the Kansas City Nevada and Ft. Smith. Were the oysters intended for Mr. Stillwell's own table? Some people do like oysters.

Thanks, Mike

Johnny

[wanswheel]

Deggesty

I find it interesting that the L&A (1896) came into being before the LR&N (1903); did Mr. Edenborn, after helping found leave the L&A, it for the LR&N? In 1929, the LR&N became a part of the L&A.

 Johnny, here's something:

"The Louisiana Railway and Navigation Company, organized in 1896 by William Edenborn as the Shreveport and Red River Valley Railway Co., was re-organized May 9, 1903, as Louisiana Railway and Navigation Co. It was known as the Edenborn Line and was completed and placed in operation October 1, 1906, as the short line between Shreveport and New Orleans. This line was owned outright by Mr. Edenborn, the only railroad in the U.S. owned by one individual."

It seems the re-organization of Stilwell's railroad required KCS to be under a trust for 5 years, headed by E. F. Harriman. In 1905, the shareholders returned to power and hired Job Edson.

http://www.pullman-museum.org/main/13.I.k.jpg Stilwell Oyster Car

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1121714 Edson's car

LIRR bought 3 of the KCS cars for the Cannonball Express (Loree, Edenborn and Edson).

http://www.dominionrailvoyages.com/jhd/lirr/manhasset.html

Mike

[passengerfan]

When the Railroads had there lightweight streamlined cars built by the manufacturers they were constructed of Cor-Ten Steel, Stainless Steel and Aluminum my question is which RRs had cars manufactured of Auminum?

Al - in - Stockton

[Deggesty]

passengerfan

Artur Stillwell was responsible for the building the RR that is known as the KCS and was its first President.

Colonel Fordyce became the roads second President in 1900

Stuart Knott became the roads third President from 1900-1903

William Buchanan was one of the founders of the L&A and became the President of the KCS in 1904

Job Edson was President of the KCS from 1905 - 1918 and again from 1920 - 1928 until his death

Leonor Loree was President of the KCS from 1918 - 1920

William Edenborn was one of the founders of the L&A and later became a President of the KCS

Harvey Couch became President of the KCS in 1939 he was responsible for seeing the RR through the growth of WW II and following the war the rebuilding of the KCS into a modern RR system.

Right you are, Al. But--you did not tell us that William Edenborn was President of the Louisiana and Railway Navigation Company, which had the direct line to Alexandria from Shreveport, and went on down to New Orleans, crossing the Mississippi by ferry between Naples and Angola, making using of the Angola Transfer Company.

I find it interesting that the L&A (1896) came into being before the LR&N (1903); did Mr. Edenborn, after helping found leave the L&A, it for the LR&N? In 1929, the LR&N became a part of the L&A.

Your question.

Johnny

[passengerfan]

Deggesty

passengerfan

Great job Johnny and I thought I would have all sunday free to watch football. So its your turn.

Al, surely it did not take longer than one time out to make your last post.Did your computer signal you that there was an answer, and take you away from a game? 

In 1948, Pullman delivered 8 each 14 roomette, 4 bedroom sleepers to the L&A. They were named:

Arthur Stillwell, Colonel Fordyce, Harvey Couch, Job Edson, Leonor Loree, Stuart Knott, William Buchanan, and William Edenborn. What was the significance of these men? Be as specific as you can.

Johnny

Johnny

Artur Stillwell was responsible for the building the RR that is known as the KCS and was its first President.

Colonel Fordyce became the roads second President in 1900

Stuart Knott became the roads third President from 1900-1903

William Buchanan was one of the founders of the L&A and became the President of the KCS in 1904

Job Edson was President of the KCS from 1905 - 1918 and again from 1920 - 1928 until his death

Leonor Loree was President of the KCS from 1918 - 1920

William Edenborn was one of the founders of the L&A and later became a President of the KCS

Harvey Couch became President of the KCS in 1939 he was responsible for seeing the RR through the growth of WW II and following the war the rebuilding of the KCS into a modern RR system.

Al - in - Stockton  

[Deggesty]

passengerfan

Great job Johnny and I thought I would have all sunday free to watch football. So its your turn.

Al, surely it did not take longer than one time out to make your last post.Did your computer signal you that there was an answer, and take you away from a game? 

In 1948, Pullman delivered 8 each 14 roomette, 4 bedroom sleepers to the L&A. They were named:

Arthur Stillwell, Colonel Fordyce, Harvey Couch, Job Edson, Leonor Loree, Stuart Knott, William Buchanan, and William Edenborn. What was the significance of these men? Be as specific as you can.

Johnny

[passengerfan]

Deggesty

passengerfan

In 1942 Pullman delivered two very large lots of Sleeping cars for service on seven RRs name the RRs Name the types of cars and how many would be owned by each RR You do not have to name the cars but it would be nice to have the number owned by each RR and what trains they were assigned to?

Isn't it nice to have tax season over and I can devote more time to the forum?

Yes, Al, it's nice to have you back to perplex our minds.

IC: Panama Limited–2 ea 4C-4BR-2DR, 2 ea 1C-1 DR-3BR Tavern Lounge, 12 ea 6S-6RM-4BR, 2 ea 18 RM, 2 ea 2C-1DR-2BR Observation Lounge

UP: San Francisco Overland–42 ea 6-6-4 and 10 ea 4-4-2 (actually, not assigned to this railroad until 1945, according to Robert Wayner)

C&NW San Francisco Overland–7 ea 6-6-4 and 4 ea 4-4-2 (actually, not assigned to this railroad until 1945 according to Robert Wayner)

SP: San Francisco Overland–11 ea 6-6-4 and 2 ea 4-4-2 (actually, not assigned to this railroad until 1945 according to Robert Wayner) Golden State–11 ea 4-4-2 and 13 ea 6-6-4; these cars were split between SP and CRI&P; neither Car Names Numbers and Consists nor From Zephyr to Amtrak tells us how many were assigned to either road; perhaps since Pullman owned them there was no specific assignation until the split-up of Pullman itself.

CR&P: see SP

MP: Colorado Eagle–4 ea 6-6-4

AT&SFe: Chicago-Kansas City- Tulsa service–3 ea 6-6-4; California Limited–23 ea 6-6-4

Johnny

Great job Johnny and I thought I would have all sunday free to watch football. So its your turn.

Al in Stockton

[Deggesty]

passengerfan

In 1942 Pullman delivered two very large lots of Sleeping cars for service on seven RRs name the RRs Name the types of cars and how many would be owned by each RR You do not have to name the cars but it would be nice to have the number owned by each RR and what trains they were assigned to?

Isn't it nice to have tax season over and I can devote more time to the forum?

Yes, Al, it's nice to have you back to perplex our minds.

IC: Panama Limited–2 ea 4C-4BR-2DR, 2 ea 1C-1 DR-3BR Tavern Lounge, 12 ea 6S-6RM-4BR, 2 ea 18 RM, 2 ea 2C-1DR-2BR Observation Lounge

UP: San Francisco Overland–42 ea 6-6-4 and 10 ea 4-4-2 (actually, not assigned to this railroad until 1945, according to Robert Wayner)

C&NW San Francisco Overland–7 ea 6-6-4 and 4 ea 4-4-2 (actually, not assigned to this railroad until 1945 according to Robert Wayner)

SP: San Francisco Overland–11 ea 6-6-4 and 2 ea 4-4-2 (actually, not assigned to this railroad until 1945 according to Robert Wayner) Golden State–11 ea 4-4-2 and 13 ea 6-6-4; these cars were split between SP and CRI&P; neither Car Names Numbers and Consists nor From Zephyr to Amtrak tells us how many were assigned to either road; perhaps since Pullman owned them there was no specific assignation until the split-up of Pullman itself.

CR&P: see SP

MP: Colorado Eagle–4 ea 6-6-4

AT&SFe: Chicago-Kansas City- Tulsa service–3 ea 6-6-4; California Limited–23 ea 6-6-4

Johnny

[passengerfan]

wanswheel

 Prosperity Special

http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b30000/3b39000/3b39300/3b39319v.jpg

In 1942 Pullman delivered two very large lots of Sleeping cars for service on seven RRs name the RRs Name the types of cars and how many would be owned by each RR You do not have to name the cars but it would be nice to have the number owned by each RR and what trains they were assigned to?

Isn't it nice to have tax season over and I can devote more time to the forum?

Al - in - Stockton

[wanswheel]

 Prosperity Special

http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b30000/3b39000/3b39300/3b39319v.jpg

[KCSfan]

passengerfan

 I believe the train w the "Prosperity Special" and the consist was all new SP steam locos I believe there were twenty 2-20-2 Santa Fe types and the route was PRR to E st Louis where the SSW took the locos to Corsicana where the SP took the train to Los Angeles.

Al - in - Stockton

You've nailed it Al. The Prosperity Special was made up of the first 20 out of a total 50 Santa Fe type oil burners that SP ordered from Baldwin. For an interesting account that's well worth the read do a Google search on Prosperity Special and click on the first entry that appears, Titus County, Texas History.

Mark 

[wanswheel]

Southern Belle 7/29/68

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/5/8/1/6581.1144530000.jpg

[henry6]

I thnk Al in Stockton is right...er, they were Sante Fe 2-10-2's...but this wasn't the only time Baldwin pulled such a stunt as linking a whole order together for delivery, just the largest.

[Deggesty]

KCSfan

The Google map of Texarkana shows the KCS is entirely in TX as it passes through the city. There's a short connector that runs into the Union Station which straddles the state line. It appears that when making its station stop in Texarkana the front end of the northbound Belle would be in AR and the rear cars in TX.

Mark, I do not know the layout of the switches at the junction, but I believe that the train I rode was backed into the station. I woke as we were leaving, and I do not remember any change of direction until we were approaching the Joplin station.

I rely extensively on the SPV atlases in my study of railroading (even to the point of copying appropriate pages before taking a trip), and I will be glad to see the last two Canadian atlases when they are published. They do have an advantage over Google and such in that they identify the railroads, and the on-line maps have an advantage in that you can enlarge the scale (to a certain point).

One more note in re the Southern Belle: I first saw the train one summer morning, in Baton Rouge, when it was still a true overnighter, and I was struck by the beauty of the paint scheme.

Johnny

[passengerfan]

passengerfan

KCSfan

On to the next question.

Originating in Eddystone, PA , a unique, never repeated, "unit" train movement was made in the early 1920's. What was the name given to this train, what was its consist and what was its route over the several railroads that handled it.

Mark

  

I believe the train w the "Prosperity Special" and the consist was all new SP steam locos I believe there were twenty and they were 4-8-2s.. Its route was PRR to St. Louis an the Cotton Belt to Dallas MP to El Paso then SP to Los Angeles.

Al - in - Stockton.  

I changed my mind they were 2-20-2 Santa Fe types and the route was PRR to E st Louis where the SSW took the locos to Corsicana where the SP took the train to Los Angeles.

Al - in - Stockton

[passengerfan]

KCSfan

On to the next question.

Originating in Eddystone, PA , a unique, never repeated, "unit" train movement was made in the early 1920's. What was the name given to this train, what was its consist and what was its route over the several railroads that handled it.

Mark

  

I believe the train w the "Prosperity Special" and the consist was all new SP steam locos I believe there were twenty and they were 4-8-2s.. Its route was PRR to St. Louis an the Cotton Belt to Dallas MP to El Paso then SP to Los Angeles.

Al - in - Stockton.  

[KCSfan]

On to the next question.

Originating in Eddystone, PA , a unique, never repeated, "unit" train movement was made in the early 1920's. What was the name given to this train, what was its consist and what was its route over the several railroads that handled it.

Mark

  

[KCSfan]

Johnny,

I had completely forgotten that short Texas stretch of the KCS mainline (the old Texarkana & Ft. Smith RR). That's what I get for posting in the morning before I have my coffee and am not yet fully awake.

My 1937 OG shows the following:     AR-TX State Line - MP 477.1, Texarkana - MP 486.9, Cass - MP 503.5, Bloomburg - MP 507.5, TX-AR State Line - 509.8

The 32.7 miles of line in TX is far longer than I realized.

The Google map of Texarkana shows the KCS is entirely in TX as it passes through the city. There's a short connector that runs into the Union Station which straddles the state line. It appears that when making its station stop in Texarkana the front end of the northbound Belle would be in AR and the rear cars in TX.

Mark