Not too far away. CSB&NI was not affiliated with Gary Railways, though it had a crossover connection to GRys affiliate Goshen South Bend and Chicago in Laporte IN, near Michigan City. (GSB&C was the remnant of the fabled New York-Chicago Air Line). Legend has it that the crossover was used only twice, for a single Gary-South Bend round trip charter.
The line I'm looking for became part of the Insull empire in the late teens or early twenties, and was easily one of the least successful Insull interurbans.
Northern Indiana the interurban and Gary Railways the city system?
This interurban was the only one to operate on the streetcar trackage of a large city otherwise well known for interurbans. After selling its city trackage and 33 cars to one of the city's streetcar companies in 1912, it operated for another 15 years until it was abandoned, largely due to the success of a neighboring electric line. One series of the cars sold to the city system in 1912 survived in service until public ownership.
Every Manhattan route had both heavy traffic and conduit. Right on, and it is a terrific streetcar control system and I loved running 629 at Branford. More fun than a PCC! Learned how at age 15 on The Bronx's Bailey Avenue line. Also great for inching up to another car in a car barn. You leave the drum controler in the first contact position and inch the car up with just the foot pedal, all the way down for a bit of power and then raise a little to coast with the line switch cutting out, and then raise a little more for the brake.
With two instead of one for Mexico and adding Bendigo for Australia, you have met the requirement for ten.
Here is the complete list:
Argentina:
Parana
Concordia
Australia
Adelaide
Bendigo
Geelong
Melbourne
Brazil
Cortiba
Pelotas
Petropolis
Rio Grande do Sol
Columbia
Bagota
Nedellin
Peroiria
Cuba
Mantansas
Ecuador
Guayaquil
Manchuria
South Manchurian Railways
Mexico
Mexico City
Torreon
Vera Cruz
Netherlands
Arnein
New Zealand
New Plymouth
Invercargill
Peru
Areqvira
NEW FOUNDLAND
St. Johns
Not part of Canada when Birneys ran, a Crown Colony instead.
I'm working without any reference books, so I may not find any more. Australia's Bendigo Tramways still has Birneys in a museum operation. I mentioned Mexico, where Veracruz and Monterrey both had Birneys. I'm guessing the not-quite-a-country you're referring to is the Panama Canal Zone.
The TARS foot pedal system has interlocks between the pedal, the controller and the door controls. The brake is released by depressing the pedal, apply is by allowing the pedal to rise, with the brakes self-lapping (controlled by pedal position). The line switch is cut out when the brake is applied. This allowed operators to control using only the foot pedal, nice for use on conduit-fed routes with extremely heavy vehicle traffic, like just about every route TARS ran.
Correct about Third Avenue. Add to your systems list. One of the countries, the one outside the USA and Canada, that had the most systems with Birneys, is on your list, but the cities that operated Birneys last, with one still running in a museum operation, have not been included. So add them.
Also, one system not in a country, but not strictly in Canada or the USA either. You have mentioned another rail operation there more than once. If the system operated today, though, it would not be counted.
Two more and you win. Omaha-Council Bluffs was the other system to use the Third Avenue foot-brake safety system.
Australia (Melbourne, Port Adelaide)
New Zealand (New Plymouth, Invercargill)
Argentina (2 systems)
Ecuador (from Trenton NJ)
Colombia (Medellin, Pereira)
I'm sure Third Avenue Rail System/Steinway used the foot-brake safety system found on larger cars on their moderately large Birney fleet.
I am counting Peurto Rico, which had Birneys, as part of the USA. But there are eleven countries, one something else, and 24 different systems ouside the USA. I'll count anyone coming up with ten systems as a winner. And what two USA systems removed most of the safety equipment they bought on thier own siingle-truck Birneys and replaced it with something they considered even safer? (And i agree, with experience to boot..)
Brooklyn's Holy Cross Cemetary shuttle was an exact copy of your 27 if 27 was on a paved street. And it lasted as long as the heavy Nostrand Avenue line ran, summer of 1949 if my memory is correct.
Question: Name all operators of 4-wheel Birney safety cars outside the USA and Canada -and there is a trick to this, too.I
The line I was looking for was Oakland CA's East Bay Transit line 27, Cemetery and Piedmont Ave, which ran from Cemetery Jct. (with the 10 Piedmont line) to the Mountain View Cemetery. The total track length fromthe switch to end-of-track was listed as 800 feet, so the operated portion was even shorter. The line was discontinued in 1937. The car used ran every 10 minutes, probably the most boring operator assignment ever.
Dave found several short shuttle lines, so he can take the next question.
OK. First, although the Holy Cross Cemetary shuttle did not run Birney;s at the time I rode it, about 1947, it did at one time. And my memory says it was shorter than 800 feet long, about two short New York city blocks. What about a shuttle operated by the Illinois Terminal to connect Peoria with East Peoria because its new streamliners could not cross the bridge because they would derail on a sharp curve?
This was was a bit further west. As far as I know the line under the Capitol never operated with Birneys.
Are you referring to the underground one at the Capitol in Washington used by Senators or Congressmen?
The line I'm looking for had an official length of 800 ft.
I am unsure if this is the line you are referring to, but the long-term operated Holy Cross Cemetary Shuttle meets your description exactly. It ran east from Nostrand Avenue on one street, forget the name of the street, to the gate of the cemetary where the street ended. Nostrand Avenue was a major streetcar line, operating from the Wiliiamsburg Bridge Plaze (at one time crossing the bridge to the underground Essex Street terminal in Manhattan, still viewable from the south side of eastbound J, M, anad Z subway trains just before the portal and the bridge approach), east on Broadway (Brooklyn) under tthe "L" structure, and then south on Nostrand Avemue to Avenue U, The shuttle borrowed its equipment for its one-car every quarter hour operation, usually in my time a 8000-series double-end Peter Witt. Single-track, of course.
A somewhat similar but longer line was the Grant Park shuttle at Roossevelt Rd. (Av.) Chicago, which has been discussed earlier on this thread. This was longer, was double-tracked, usually used two cars, and was a remainder of the through line.
The Jones Street cable-car Shuttle off the O'Farrell-Jones-and Hyde Street cable-car line, which operated before the massive reconfiguration and reduction of the cable car network was also only two-blocks long, and connected the main OJH south to Market Street and the Ferry Terminal. I think it was double-track, would have to be for cable operation, but usually used only one car.
For the first summer after the East Boston Tunnel rapid transit, now the Blue Line, was extended from Maverick to Orient Heights, with conversion to trackless trolleys of the East Boston - Chelsie - Revere network, a shuttle for one summer only ran between Gladstone Loop, at the new Suffolk Downs Station, and the main gate of the track itself. A very short line located on the RofW and track of what had been a branch to serve the track from the main Maverick-Orient Heights-Revere Beach line. After that one summer, patrons of the track had to walk the short distance.
Whe the line had operated through, before the rapid transit extension, service from Maverick to Suffolk Downs Racetrack was the last place Type 4 cars hauling center-entrance trailers made an appearance.
daveklepper Also, is not one of them back home at the Fox River Valley Trolley Museum?
AE&FRE 304 is at the Fox River Trolley Museum.
New question:
This streetcar shuttle line, which ran less than two blocks, had its own line number and was considered the shortest line in the U.S. I'll accept the city and the line's purpose.
rcdrye, I believe you should ask the next question since you mentined the Ellgine and Fox River 300's. Also, is not one of them back home at the Fox River Valley Trolley Museum?
daveklepper Did D&T buy them new or second hand?
Did D&T buy them new or second hand?
Near as I can tell D&TE bought them new in 1929. They were only used for a few years as the D&T folded in 1932 after a bridge failure. The cars were returned to Cininnati Car and finally resold to LVT in 1938. LVT put them in service in 1939. Thank burlingtonreplicas.com for the info.
daveklepper Anyone know the history of the Lehigh Valley Tranist Easton LImited Cincinnat lightweight curve-side cars?
Anyone know the history of the Lehigh Valley Tranist Easton LImited Cincinnat lightweight curve-side cars?
LVT got them in 1939 from the Dayton and Troy Electric (Ohio).
Well, it looks like we can stay with streetcars and interuban cars, and leave steamers for another question. Thanks, guys. Two correcdtions, the 4200's were the Stonham cars, and the 4300's the Chelsies. not the reverse as I posted. And the PCC's now on the F line in SF in various paint schemes, had four owners, not three, Twin Cities, Public Service of New Jersey. New Jersey Transit, and the SF;s MUNI.
The Grand Rapids car that went to Marion probably had four owners, Detroit United, Detroit Dept. of Street Rys, Grand Rapids, and then Marion Railways.
Aurora Elgin and Fox River Electirc cars in the 300 series spent some time on Shaker Heights Rapid Transit before going to Milwaukee's Speedrail operation. Some of them spent time at Trolleyville before ending up at other museums.
Some Cincinnati Car Co. curved-side lightweights served under four owners which were distinct operations. I believe that the cars in question finished out their service on the ill-fated Milwaukee Rapid Transit & Speedrail.
An awful lot of early cars got bounced around to various owners, with corporate changes in the middle, which makes tracing ownership complicated. For example, Bay State Street Railway4175 could probably be claimed by about seven different corporate entities, even though it only ran in Massachusetts, Rhode Island and New Jersey before entering private hands, and then landing at the Seashore Trolley Museum. Some Pacific Electric cars went through four or five corporate changes without leaving the same rails. Then there's the problem of underlying ownership. One car in Chicago was transferred from Cicago City Railway to Calimet and South Chicago ownership without changing its number, paint or run assignment.
Steam locomotives are (hopefully) simpler, if only because there were fewer of them...
Apparently, my question was not of sufficient interest to provoke answers. And truthfully, I do not claim to have the best answer. Many lightwieghts were sold for second-hand operation, and some probably saw third systems before being scrapped. Two cases of providing the same service under three owners come to mind. The Birneys in the Marion local streetcar system were purchased and run by Union Traction Company, came into the Indiana Railroad operations in 1930 or 1931, and one or two years later were under local Marion Railways ownership. The 4200 semi-convertables that operated in Boston, Chelsie, and Revere, and up to 1935 in Lynn, Salem, Gloucester, were purchased and operated by the Bay State Electric Railway, then the Eastern Massachusetts Street Railway, and then came into the ownership of the Boston Elevated Railway, and then the Metropolitan Transit Authority before being scrapped, four owners. A few went back under lease to the Eastern Mass for the last few months of operation of the Stoneham - Sullivan Square route as a trolley line after an accident put two of the similar 4300'sassgined to the service out of operation. All were scrapped by 1948. An of course there are the Louisville PCC's that ran tests but no public operation there, then to Cleveland, then Toronto, and maybe one is in San Francisco today? Twin Cities PCC's to Newark to San Francisco.
So the new replacement question: Multiple owners of steam locomatives, and I would suspect that some may have had five or six owners over their useful lives. Am I correct?
question is when did milw. rd sioux hiawatha stop running
The electric locomotives that ended up as Conrail's E-33's, before that the New Haven EF-4's, were the electric locomotives owned by the most different rairload companies during their active service life, recap: Virginian, Norfolk and Western, NYNH&H, PC, Conrail.
For rapid transit cars, they were the Shipyard railway cars that were built originally for the Sixth Avenue elevated, Gilbert Elevated Railway, Manhattan Elevated (probably a comany between), Interuborough, NYC Board of Transportation, NYC Transit Authority, Shipyard Railway (US Govenment).
Which streetcars and/or interurban cars were owned by the most different companies during their active service life?
Dave:
As the senior member of this group, please ask the next question.
Ed Burns
Do I get to ask the next question since I rode the most last runs, even discountning fan trips? Possibly the reason I rode the most last runs is that I am 82-1/2, and I wonder if any poster is older.
Say that I'm out-of-bounds if this refers only to passenger last runs....
I'm running a GP9, porwer for the Davis Turn from Suisun-Fairfield, and also out and back on the Winters Branch from.Elmira,...A car consigned to a GE appliance dealer in Winters for a "BOXCAR LOAD" sale. Don't spot it, we are told.
One day, or two later, we are told don't spot the car today. A day or two later, with the car, not told to not spot the car, finished switching at Vaca Valley, we're ready to depart for Winters and have a "cornfield meet" with a Hi-Rail, Company and Western Division, officers, ordering my conductor, a retired military officer, to hold and not spot the appliances.
"They said,That part of the Branch was "out of service."
So... I never got to run a train to Winters.
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