LEHIGH AND HUDSON RIVER
OR
LEHIGH AND NEW ENGLAND
rcdrye, you are geographically much closer than Dave. This road was never blessed with the industrial concentration that the Raritan River enjoyed.
rfpjohnAfter being operated by a major eastern carrier for 20 years, service was abandoned, only to be resurected as a short line operation for next 84 years before briefly staggering towards demise as a Conrail operation. Featured motive power ranged from very worn castoffs from the parent company through classic acquired-new 4-4-0s, a motor car and lastly, leased steam and diesel engines. Big hint: An awful lot of GIs traversed a small segment of this line.
Raritan River?
Springfield Terminal was built as the Springfield Electric Ry, bacame the ST in the early 1900s, was owned by B&M from the mid-1920s on, which is why the ST lease of B&M was so easy to make. ST's wood combine 10 and steel combine 16 are at Connecticut Elecric Railway Association in Warehouse Point (Windsor Locks) CT. 10 has been cosmetically restored, 16 runs. An ex-ST locomotive is at IRM in Union IL.
Could the railroad you are looking for be the Kankekee Western, or whatever the name was for the Kankekee Belt?
Like comparing the Milwaukee A-1 with the PRR E-6, it would be interesting to compare the TP&W's Americans with the D-16s with piston valves.
The B&M, under Guilford, bought the Springfield Terminal, then merged the whole business into the ST for uniono-busting reasons. Almost got away with it!
Thanks for the Springfield Terminal information, Dave. I'm going to have to get up to Seashore one of these days. As for the T.P.&W., That's not the road I'm looking for. As for those Americans, they were new when acquired, not really modern.
CORRECTION, NOT SPRINGFIELD JUNCTION, BUT CHARLESTOWN. SORRY FOR THE MEMORY SLIP. THE SPIRNGFIELD TERMINAL OPERATED BETWEEN CHARTLESTOWN, NH, AND SPRINGFIELD, VT, ACROSS THE CONNECTICUT RIVER
AND THE RAILROAD THAT HAD THE NEW AND QUITE MODERN AMERICAN TYPES WAS THE TOLEDO PEORIA AND WESTERN
I believe at least one of the two Springfield Terminal combines is at Seashore in operating condition. During WWII. Some trips connecting with the through New Haven -Boston and Main trains that stopped at Springfield Junction required both cars to handle the business.
Classy interurban! I love the little combine they ran. Perhaps it was preserved?
After being operated by a major eastern carrier for 20 years, service was abandoned, only to be resurected as a short line operation for next 84 years before briefly staggering towards demise as a Conrail operation. Featured motive power ranged from very worn castoffs from the parent company through classic acquired-new 4-4-0s, a motor car and lastly, leased steam and diesel engines. Big hint: An awful lot of GIs traversed a small segment of this line.
rfpjohn Would that be Springfield Terminal up in Vermont?
Would that be Springfield Terminal up in Vermont?
It would. The Cheshire Toll Bridge (Charlestown NH is in Cheshire County) carries NH route 11 across to the Vermont side. Passenger service ended in 1947, electric operation in 1956. Diesel freight service with ST's 44-tonner or a leased B&M SW1 ended in 1986. A tiny remnant of the "real" ST exists as a lumberyard spur in North Charlestown NH. The Springfield Terminal shell was used to lease the B&M, Maine Central and Delaware and Hudson for labor reasons. The state of NH bought the bridge in the early 1990s and removed the toll in 2005. Prior to the sale one of ST's toll collectors was convicted of embezzling $14,000 dollars from tolls, pretty amazing since the toll was only 15 cents at the time. The rails are still there under the westbound lane, and one of the spans still has trolley hangers.
The giant postwar Marmon-Herington trolleybus order was planned by CSL but the busses were delivered after the CTA takeover. Some ex-CCRy south side lines were equipped with trolley busses after 1948.
This short interurban line owned a three-span truss bridge across a river that it shared with highway traffic on a state highway, collecting tolls from highway users. The railway operated freight traffic electrically for some years after passenger service ended, and diesel freight service after the wires came down, continuing to own the bridge after rail service ended until it was purchased by the state, which maintained the toll for some years after purchase. The trolley hangers are still on some of the crossmembers of the bridge even today.
rcrdye has it right. He gets the next question.
As an aside, Chicago Railways owned all of the trolley buses since the routes were in their territory. All four of the companies owned gas and diesel buses starting with the feeder routes and into the postwar era as CSL began to convert to buses just prior to the CTA takeover.
Chicago Railway (north side)
Chicago City Railway (south side)
Southern St. Railway (Roosevelt (12th St.))
Calumet and South Chicago Railway (far south side).
All four companies were "unified" into Chicago Surface lines as a result of the settlement ordinance of 1907. To give some idea of the complexities, the Chicago Railways properties came from Chicago Union Traction, which before 1910 included what became the Chicago and West Towns and Evanston Railways (both initially part of County Traction). Chicago Railways included both former West Chicago St Railway and North Chicago Street Railway lines. Calumet and South Chicago had at least three predecessors, and CCRy had some track that formerly belonged to Chicago and Southern Traction (later Chicago and Interurban Traction). The final result didn't get finished until around 1913. Under CSL, only CRys and CCRy normally received new cars, on a ratio of 60-40 favoring CRys. CRys had the heavier north side lines which used more cars, even though CCRy had more mileage. The C&SC received only one new car in the CSL era, to replace one that was destroyed.
The existence of the underlying companies was the reason that most large chicago car series, including both prewar and postwar PCCs, had two different number series. Through operation of North Side (CRy) and South Side (CCRy) routes began in 1913 with "TR" routes such as Clark-Wentworth and Broadway-State. Many of the CTA route numbers in use today match the TR numbers used by CSL.
Where CSL crossed the city limits into Cicero, tracks were leased from the connecting Chicago and West Towns, including a 1 mile jointly operated stretch on Roosevelt between Austin annd Laramie where C&WT owned the south track and Southern St. Ry owned the north track. C&WT may also have owned but never operated the south track on North Avenue from Austin to Naragansett, about a half mile.
Chicago Surface Lines was the operating entity for Chicago's streetcars, trolley buses and some feeder buses. What were the four underlying companies who actually owned the equipment and held the franchises?
Paul gets the win. If you're out there, Paul, toss out another question.
I did not mean to imply that anyone but Paul was entitled to ask the next question in my reference to the Cornell students' sleepers to and from Chicago.
except for WWII, thru sleepers via that rout did continue until 1950 or 1951. But they ran west just at the beginning of the Cornell U. vacations or "breaks," and east just before the end, and the market was the Cornell enrollment from Michigan, Indiana, and Illinois. Possibly other campuses as well.
Of course! The knowledge that the Lehigh's trains into New York City had to be powered by the PRR's engines is tucked away into a seldom-opened pocket in my brain.
Johnny
Paul got the routing ((PRR-)LV-CN-GTW). The through sleepers were discontinued around 1938 or 1939, shortly before the Black Diamond was streamlined. My apologies for posting the original question without remembering that the LV's trains were powered by DD1s to Hunter Tower from 1918 to 1933.
CN/GT's tunnel electrification was 3300 VAC. Motive power was supplied by three-axle boxcabs, later supplemented by ex-South Shore (originally CLS&SB) AC motors, which were replaced by DC motors on the South Shore.
St. Clair was AC. However, I can find nothing that fits this bill.
And the 1946 and 1947 Guides, also?
Did you check the tunnel electrification?
daveklepper Thought of that, but I believe the St. Clair Tunnel was a dc electrification. And all right, possibly while the N&W kept steam on the passenger trains, the helpers were electric and may have been required. But if the St. Clair Tunnel electrification was ac, then you are right, because there definitely were NY - Chi sleepers over the LV, PRR from Penn Station to Hunter tower, CN, and GTW. But these lasted until well after WWII, not ending in the late 30's.
Thought of that, but I believe the St. Clair Tunnel was a dc electrification. And all right, possibly while the N&W kept steam on the passenger trains, the helpers were electric and may have been required.
But if the St. Clair Tunnel electrification was ac, then you are right, because there definitely were NY - Chi sleepers over the LV, PRR from Penn Station to Hunter tower, CN, and GTW. But these lasted until well after WWII, not ending in the late 30's.
The only other AC electrification that might fit the bill would be the St. Clair Tunnel, which suggests an LV-CN-GTW route to Chicago.
If there were thru NY-Penn - Chicago sleepers via the N&W, I should point out that I always understood passenger trains did not use electric power on the N&W, only frieghts did. Was I wrong?
I think this was true of the Virginian, also.
Other than that, I don't know of any other AC electrification, outside of an interurban or two, between Harrisburg and Chicago.
And yes,1933, is the year AC wire went from Trenton to Sunnyside, for an engine change a Paoli, moved to Harrisburg some three or four years later.
Lackawanna was 3000V DC (not AC) and the cars weren't pulled by electrics. MC used 600v DC third rail from Windsor Ont to Detroit. On this route both electric segments were AC and overhead, and electric locomotives hauled the trains.
Actually I need to restate this. The original New York end was 600V DC third rail, replaced by AC overhead in 1933. Through sleepers ran on the route until the late 1930s. The other electric segment was always operated with AC motors.
rcdrye From the end of WWI until through service ended, cars from New York to Chicago via this route were pulled behind AC electrics under overhead wire at two different points on the route.
From the end of WWI until through service ended, cars from New York to Chicago via this route were pulled behind AC electrics under overhead wire at two different points on the route.
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