Here's a hint. Though it was only 29 miles long the railroad was an interstate line starting in one state and ending in another.
Mark
KCSfan Mike, Actually I made an error in my answer. The original Rebel ran from Jackson, TN through, but not from, Jackson, MS. The IC's Miss Lou which ran between Jackson, MS and NO was the fromer Green Diamond streamlined trainset. Because it was articulated and additional cars could not be addded, the IC replaced it in 1946 with a conventional streamliner capable of handling more passengers on its Chicago - St. Louis route. The articulated trainset subsequently ran as the Miss Lou until the early 1950's when it was scrapped as being beyond economical repair. Next question. What railroad is recognized as the first standard gauge road in the deep south and what were its end point terminals? Mark
Mike,
Actually I made an error in my answer. The original Rebel ran from Jackson, TN through, but not from, Jackson, MS. The IC's Miss Lou which ran between Jackson, MS and NO was the fromer Green Diamond streamlined trainset. Because it was articulated and additional cars could not be addded, the IC replaced it in 1946 with a conventional streamliner capable of handling more passengers on its Chicago - St. Louis route. The articulated trainset subsequently ran as the Miss Lou until the early 1950's when it was scrapped as being beyond economical repair.
Next question. What railroad is recognized as the first standard gauge road in the deep south and what were its end point terminals?
The first Miss Lou was a single car, #131, built in July, 1940, by ACF. Car #130 was the first "Illini," built at the same time, and it was painted in University of Illinois colors. Both cars were built for engineer-only engine crews (no place for a fireman). Back in the sixties, a man in Wesson, Miss. (fifty-five miles south of Jackson) told me that it was almost impossible to get a seat on the Miss Lou because so many IC employees or their families rode it. I think he was referring to the one-car train, and not the former Green Diamond consist.
Johnny
Mark, yes The Rebel. Jackson, Tennessee to New Orleans. Your turn.
http://www.gmohs.org/images/Rebel_edit.JPG
http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN03167
http://www.railroadheritage.org/ImageStorage/Img--00002794.jpg
http://cdm.sos.mo.gov/cdm4/doc_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/mtwainzepi&CISOPTR=204&CISOBOX=1
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,764105,00.html
Mike
wanswheel What streamliner originated at a city named for a general and terminated at a city for which a battle had made the general famous? Mike
What streamliner originated at a city named for a general and terminated at a city for which a battle had made the general famous?
I can think of two of them both running between Jackson, MS and New Orleans, The GM&N's Rebel and the IC's Miss Lou.
wanswheel Monon from Michigan City to Burns Harbor and the Illinois-Indiana state line. http://books.google.com/books?id=NgjENFRiuJMC&pg=PA119&dq=css%26sb+burns+harbor Mike
Monon from Michigan City to Burns Harbor and the Illinois-Indiana state line.
http://books.google.com/books?id=NgjENFRiuJMC&pg=PA119&dq=css%26sb+burns+harbor
We have a winner!! The trackage rights were awarded when C&O was allowed a controlling interest in South Shore. Monon utilized the trackage rights only once.
Wanswheel gets to ask the next question.
daveklepper If the C&O did run to Markham for any reason, it would need to use the South Shore between Hammond and the State Line. I may be incorrect, but I am in the right state!
If the C&O did run to Markham for any reason, it would need to use the South Shore between Hammond and the State Line. I may be incorrect, but I am in the right state!
You're getting close, C&O is indirectly involved in the trackage rights but C&O did not have any rights over South Shore. Besides, C&O used trackage rights on the Erie from Griffith to get to Hammond and then to State Line.
wanswheel B&O, Miller to Gary? EJ&E, Goff to somewhere? Mike
B&O, Miller to Gary?
EJ&E, Goff to somewhere?
No and No, but Indiana is the right state.
IC actually owned South Shore's line between Kensington and State Line, so this isn't what I would consider trackage rights. Besides, the MC line ran between the Swift plant and South Shore's line. As mentioned earlier, C&O's home yard in Chicago was NKP's Calumet Yard. At any rate, these guesses are in the wrong state.
The IC, as per above, may be one answer. But there may be another:
As you know, the through Pullmans off the C&O were handled Cincinnati-Chicago by the Big-Four-New York Central System. But the C&O did run its own local passenger train each way each day, terminating at Hammond, not downtown Chicago, and its tickets on this train included a Hammond - Chicago stub good on the South Shore. This suggests the possibility that the C&O had trackage rights to Kennsington on the South Shore, and possibly on the IC too to Markham Yard.
CSSHEGEWISCHThe South Shore Line currently operates on trackage rights over the Illinois Central between Kensington and Randolph Street. Which steam road had trackage rights over South Shore and between which two points?
Pere Marquette from East Chicago to Hammond?
http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/collections/cushman/full/P02995.jpg
Originally IC could run steam trains on the one unelectrified track from Pullman to the Illinois-Indiana state line. In the 1910s they kept trackage rights from Kensington to a Swift & Company ice house, about 3/4 of a mile.
http://books.google.com/books?id=6lMoAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA841&lpg=PA841&dq=%22Swift+%26+Company%22++%22ice+house%22+KENSINGTON&source=bl&ots=DfQLXiNk7J&sig=a5dFbTJyPrN-qRizR9cBHpu9Tio&hl=en&ei=miCZSYWrC4LqNKGtoIMM&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result
OK. Now isn't there a question hanging? Or are we awating a new question? And who from?
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Those are nice pictures, Mike. I can understand Henry's joy in his memories of the road. I treasure my memories of interaction with the AT&N crews in Reform. Among them--swinging onto the engine as the train came in from Aliceville, running the engine around the wye, flagging one of the public crossings, passing signals to the engineer as the train moved around a curve, lining switches, coupling and uncoupling cars--even making the round trip to Aliceville one night (twenty miles in two hours each way; really good track, you know).
Thanks Mike...I do have the book, just lent it to a friend. And I have at least one slide tray, too, and several magazine articles. It certainly was a little railroad with a unique existance. And a lot of followers, too. Rabid follwers, that is.
Henry, put a bib, here's that Newfield Junction again.
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/ny/county/allegany/RailroadsAlleg/WAG-Railroad/at%20Newfield%20Junction,PA0001.jpg
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/ny/county/allegany/RailroadsAlleg/WAG-Railroad/WAG%20-%20LEWIS/Wellsville-Addison-and-Galeton%20Railroad-Lewis0024.jpg
It could take a while to download 40 pictures that size on 1 long webpage.
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/ny/county/allegany/RailroadsAlleg/WAG-Railroad/WAG%20-%20LEWIS/WAG-LEWISBOOK.htm
That. And the 70 tonners with Ford grills. And the F units bieng painted from SP and WP to cream and red. And a Jan 1977 day, hip deep in snow, seeing them operate for the first time in a month or more by sheer luck of picking that day to be there. And a friend of mine, standing next to me taking color picture as I took a b&w shot of the F pushing snow out of its way east of Galeton; his pic was the Dec '77 cover for Trains mag. Other trips of following a train from Elkland to Galeton with some great pics and another day of touring the shops, getting the employee timetable from the GM, and chasing, if you will, the train, to Elkland and watching them having to clear the track of down trees ahead. And while awaiting the arrival of the train at Westfield deopt, wandering up the track and the local constable inquiring if we were looking for the "wackey weed that grew wild around these here parts?" (I kid you not, he actually said that!) And, oh, yeah, the Plymouth switcher working the tannery at Westfield. Never got to follow the line west and north to Wellsville, though. Then there is the 8 mm film floating around a friend's collection, taken by a fan inside the baggage compartment of a B&O train in the early' 50's. Gotta go change my shirt again!
henry6 May I please plead for having the short word WAG banned from usage on these and any other pages, posts, threads,and forums pertaining to and about trains and/or railroads and railroading. Every time I see the letters WAG I think of the Wellsville, Addison and Galeton reporting marks and I begin salivating. I have drooled on three shirts already this week!
May I please plead for having the short word WAG banned from usage on these and any other pages, posts, threads,and forums pertaining to and about trains and/or railroads and railroading. Every time I see the letters WAG I think of the Wellsville, Addison and Galeton reporting marks and I begin salivating. I have drooled on three shirts already this week!
al-in-chgo Just a WAG: B&O from Kensington to Portage? - a.s.
Just a WAG: B&O from Kensington to Portage? - a.s.
KCSfan The NYC Michigan Central line to its connection at Kensington with the IC . Not sure where the MC would have gotten onto the South Shore - I'll say Hammond but it could have Gary or Porter. Mark
The NYC Michigan Central line to its connection at Kensington with the IC . Not sure where the MC would have gotten onto the South Shore - I'll say Hammond but it could have Gary or Porter.
Michigan Central picked up the IHB at Ivanhoe to Calumet Park where MC then used its own branch to Kensington.
Getting close but not quite there.
KCSfan CSSHEGEWISCH The South Shore Line currently operates on trackage rights over the Illinois Central between Kensington and Randolph Street. Which steam road had trackage rights over South Shore and between which two points? Paul, I believe it might have been the C&O (of Indiana) between Hammond and Kensington because I remember seeing C&O Mikes at the IC's 23rd St. roundhouse. Mark
CSSHEGEWISCH The South Shore Line currently operates on trackage rights over the Illinois Central between Kensington and Randolph Street. Which steam road had trackage rights over South Shore and between which two points?
The South Shore Line currently operates on trackage rights over the Illinois Central between Kensington and Randolph Street. Which steam road had trackage rights over South Shore and between which two points?
Paul,
I believe it might have been the C&O (of Indiana) between Hammond and Kensington because I remember seeing C&O Mikes at the IC's 23rd St. roundhouse.
Not quite, C&O passenger trains terminated at Hammond and C&O of Indiana used NKP Calumet Yard for its terminal.
KCSfanSince you both answered parts of the question, which ever of you has another ready feel free to ask it.
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