Al,
Between your two replies I'd say you've identified all the trains correctly. Prior to streamlining of the Texas Special I think the Frisco considered the Meteor their premier train. I had in mind the Illmo Ltd. of the ITC though the overnight Owl with its sleeper is an acceptable answer.
If you aren't too busy with tax matters shoot us the next question.
Mark
To fill in the blanks.
5 IT Owl
9 Rutland Green Mountain Flyer
10 Frisco Meteor or Oil Fields Special
Al - in - Stockton
KCSfan Sorry to keep y'all waiting. Been on a short two day trip. Here's the next question. This question goes back to the pre-streamliner era, say 1930-35. Just about all railroads had a premier passenger train that would be considered their “flagship”. Examples with which we’re all familiar would be the Broadway and 20th Century Ltds. of the PRR and NYC. What were the premier trains of the following roads? 1. Southern Pacific2. New Haven3. Louisville & Nashville4. Milwaukee5. Illinois Terminal6. Chesapeake & Ohio7. Seaboard8. Illinois Central9. Rutland10. Frisco Mark
Sorry to keep y'all waiting. Been on a short two day trip. Here's the next question.
1. SP Sunset Limited
2 NH Merchants Limited
3 L&N Pan American
4 Milw Olympian or Pioneer Ltd,
5 IT ?
6 C&O George Washington Ltd.
7 Seaboard Orange Blossom Special
8 IC Panama Limited
9 Rutland?
10 Frisco Texas Special or Meteor
passengerfanI stand corrected I found the Halifax - Fredericton run and you are right. OK Mark it is your turn.
Mark, Al has been standing for almost seven hours now. Please let him sit down. I hope he can sleep while standing.
Johnny
Deggesty Al, I believe that the Halifax-Fredericton run (345 miles) beats the Montreal-Toronto run (335 miles). I do not doubt your information on the Montreal-Toronto run; I did not notice any mention of RDC equipment in the schedules I looked at; all of them had real names. The Halifax-Fredericton had no name except "Railiner." The Guides with the information are at the bottom of a tall stack, and I do not want to pick them all up again. passengerfan Whoever answered the most correct has a turn now. Al - in - Stockton Mark, that's you. Johnny
Al, I believe that the Halifax-Fredericton run (345 miles) beats the Montreal-Toronto run (335 miles). I do not doubt your information on the Montreal-Toronto run; I did not notice any mention of RDC equipment in the schedules I looked at; all of them had real names. The Halifax-Fredericton had no name except "Railiner." The Guides with the information are at the bottom of a tall stack, and I do not want to pick them all up again.
passengerfan Whoever answered the most correct has a turn now. Al - in - Stockton
I stand corrected I found the Halifax - Fredericton run and you are right. OK Mark it is your turn.
Deggesty Al, after checking the Guides I have from March of 1975 to May of 1982, I found one RDC schedule out of Toronto; it was to North Bay, which is 228 miles long. This existed into VIA. I also found, under VIA operation (never CN), an RDC schedule between Halifax, N. S., and Fredericton, N. B., which was 345 miles (so far as I know, this was the only through service ever between those two capital cities). This is, of course, in the Maritimes (as the service in Newfoundland was). If you are thinking of the Northlander when it was a day trip between Timmins and Toronto (487 miles), no RDC equipment, only coaches and diner, was indicated. I could find no other RDC operation out of Toronto. In the spring of 1984, I rode an RDC schedule from Montreal to Ottawa and back, but this is too short for your question. Johnny
Al, after checking the Guides I have from March of 1975 to May of 1982, I found one RDC schedule out of Toronto; it was to North Bay, which is 228 miles long. This existed into VIA. I also found, under VIA operation (never CN), an RDC schedule between Halifax, N. S., and Fredericton, N. B., which was 345 miles (so far as I know, this was the only through service ever between those two capital cities). This is, of course, in the Maritimes (as the service in Newfoundland was). If you are thinking of the Northlander when it was a day trip between Timmins and Toronto (487 miles), no RDC equipment, only coaches and diner, was indicated.
I could find no other RDC operation out of Toronto.
In the spring of 1984, I rode an RDC schedule from Montreal to Ottawa and back, but this is too short for your question.
Haven't checked the mileage but CP also operated one or two RDcs that originated in Peterborough each morning and ran to Toronto as kind of a commuter service than continued on to Detroit. The pair that left Detroit operated to Peterborough where they overnighted for the return ever other day.
By the way I remember the Northlander when it operated with the Dutch trainsets and when they replaced the Dutch diesels with FP9A or FP7A anyway it was one or the other.
Whoever answered the most correct has a turn now.
passengerfan It is really to bad you have not visited the Northwest. It is a beautiful place especially for a railfan between the raindrops. It's to bad the BCR is gone and the RDC trips between Vancouver and Prince George. It was probably one of the most beautiful trips in North America with spectacular scenery. It has been rumored that Rocky Mountain Railtours may be planning a Vancouver - Prince George - Jasper trip but I guess with economic times the way they are I haven't heard anymore about it. Al - in - Stockton
It is really to bad you have not visited the Northwest. It is a beautiful place especially for a railfan between the raindrops. It's to bad the BCR is gone and the RDC trips between Vancouver and Prince George. It was probably one of the most beautiful trips in North America with spectacular scenery. It has been rumored that Rocky Mountain Railtours may be planning a Vancouver - Prince George - Jasper trip but I guess with economic times the way they are I haven't heard anymore about it.
I had forgotten about this when I posted my comments on the BCR yesterday.
Ricki and I have been to Courtenay and back twice; we enjoyed the trip both times. I was showing pictures I had taken to a friend, and he asked why we went if we were not going to see somebody or we knew of nothing special in Courtenay. He could not understand the joy of riding a train and seeing what is there.
Well, east of Toronto would be the Maritimes and that's been ruled out. Sudbury hits me westbound but so does Hudson Bay on the ON, but don't remember RDC's on ON. If I remember the Sudbury run was every other day, up one, back the next.
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
henry6 So if it weren't a Maritime ride it was either a Toronto to Ottawa run or the Newfoundlad run.
So if it weren't a Maritime ride it was either a Toronto to Ottawa run or the Newfoundlad run.
Newfoundland was narrow gauge and CN never owned any narrow gauge RDCs so that lets that out. As to your other answer it was Toronto on the one hand but not Ottawa on the other. No cigar yet.
KCSfan Johnny and Al, Thanks for the info on the PGE/BCR. I've never been to the Pacific Northwest and my knowledge of ops in that area is pretty limited. I was completely unaware of the extension to N. Vancouver. I look forward to these discussions and have learned much from you posters and the research I've had to do to try to answer the questions. Right now I haven't a clue as to the long RDC run in eastern Canada but I'll start searching and may come up with a SWAG tomorrow if the question hasn't been answered by then. Mark
Johnny and Al,
Thanks for the info on the PGE/BCR. I've never been to the Pacific Northwest and my knowledge of ops in that area is pretty limited. I was completely unaware of the extension to N. Vancouver. I look forward to these discussions and have learned much from you posters and the research I've had to do to try to answer the questions. Right now I haven't a clue as to the long RDC run in eastern Canada but I'll start searching and may come up with a SWAG tomorrow if the question hasn't been answered by then.
Sorry Al - in - Chicago Not the Maritimes, It was Eastern Canada and It did continue to operate for awhile after Via Rail Canada but was originally a CN route. For sometime this RDC route was even a named train. Via discontinued the RDC's on this route but still continues to operate other trains.
from above post: "The fourth long RDC trip is in eastern Canada and none that anyone has named so far. It is a route that no one would think about as an RDC run. But a daily RDC trip operated for a number of years in each direction along this most unexpected route.
Al - in - Stockton"
Up until recently, if not now, VIA had one of its "railliners" in summer service only in the Maritimes. Juding by online VIA literature I recieved some time ago (and didn't research), it was marketed more as a summer-tourist thing than mere transportation. - al-in-chgo
Deggesty Mark, for many years, Squamish was the southernmost point on the PGE ("Prince George Eventually"), but in the fifties, it was extended to North Vancouver, and once the track was usable, the trains originated and terminated there. there was an interesting article in Railway Progress about the advertising campaign to induce the NIMBY's to quit their protests against the extension. I don't remember the year that through passenger service was abandoned, but once it was possible, the service ran from North Vancouver to Prince George on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, and returned fron Prince George the next day. The other days of the week, the train ran between North Vancouver and Lillooet only. As I remember, Lillooet was the northern terminus until in the fifties. The road was something of an orphan. Until the through passenger service was abandoned, I hoped that we would be able to make the round trip on the RDC's. I still hope we will be able to travel between Jasper and Prince Rupert, with a round trip between Prince Rupert and Port Hardy (overnight on the ferry each way). A few years ago, CN absorbed the BCR. Johnny
Mark, for many years, Squamish was the southernmost point on the PGE ("Prince George Eventually"), but in the fifties, it was extended to North Vancouver, and once the track was usable, the trains originated and terminated there. there was an interesting article in Railway Progress about the advertising campaign to induce the NIMBY's to quit their protests against the extension. I don't remember the year that through passenger service was abandoned, but once it was possible, the service ran from North Vancouver to Prince George on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, and returned fron Prince George the next day. The other days of the week, the train ran between North Vancouver and Lillooet only. As I remember, Lillooet was the northern terminus until in the fifties. The road was something of an orphan.
Until the through passenger service was abandoned, I hoped that we would be able to make the round trip on the RDC's. I still hope we will be able to travel between Jasper and Prince Rupert, with a round trip between Prince Rupert and Port Hardy (overnight on the ferry each way).
A few years ago, CN absorbed the BCR.
The fourth long RDC trip is in eastern Canada and none that anyone has named so far. It is a route that no one would think about as an RDC run. But a daily RDC trip operated for a number of years in each direction along this most unexpected route.
Deggesty KCSfanWould No. 3 be British Columbia Ry (or its predecessor, PGE). I know they ran RDC's but I'm not sure over what route. If they ran over the entire line between Squamish and Prince George that would be a distance of 594.5 miles. According to the Canadian Trackside Guide 2007, The milepost at North Vancouver (south end of the RDC run) is 1.4, and the milepost at Prince George (north end of the longer run) is 462.4, which gives 461.0 miles. Johnny
KCSfanWould No. 3 be British Columbia Ry (or its predecessor, PGE). I know they ran RDC's but I'm not sure over what route. If they ran over the entire line between Squamish and Prince George that would be a distance of 594.5 miles.
According to the Canadian Trackside Guide 2007, The milepost at North Vancouver (south end of the RDC run) is 1.4, and the milepost at Prince George (north end of the longer run) is 462.4, which gives 461.0 miles.
Johnny,
Your correction got me to re-check the distance and I think it was even less than you stated. According to an OG in the 50's the PGE (which became the BCR) started at Squamish Dock and ran to Prince George; total distance per the OG 428.8 miles. Vancouver is shown as another 33.7 miles from Squamish Dock. I may be wrong but I thought the Vancouver to Squamish part of the route was by ferry boat and the RDC run only started at Squamish.
Al's asylum
http://wpmuseum.railfan.net/adwpbudd.jpg
http://photoswest.org/photos/00401501/00401556.jpg
Mike
I'm wracking my brain to a mid 50's magazine article that puts that image in my head. But I don't remember whether it was Modern Railroads, Trains, or Railroad!
henry6 Didn't the QN&L have a rather lengthy RDC trip, too?
Didn't the QN&L have a rather lengthy RDC trip, too?
passengerfan KCSfan 1. WP Zephhyrette - Salt Lake City to Oakland 924 miles 2. RI Choctaw Rockette - Memphis to Amarillo 762 miles 3. C&EI Meadowlark - Chicago to Joppa 363 miles 4. M&StL - St Paul to DesMoines 312 miles I'm pretty sure that 1 and 2 are correct. 3 and 4 are the next longest in the US that come immediately to mind though there are probably some longer runs, most likely in Canada. Mark 1-2 are correct and your surmise about number three is also correct it is in Canada but which one. Al - in - Stockton
KCSfan 1. WP Zephhyrette - Salt Lake City to Oakland 924 miles 2. RI Choctaw Rockette - Memphis to Amarillo 762 miles 3. C&EI Meadowlark - Chicago to Joppa 363 miles 4. M&StL - St Paul to DesMoines 312 miles I'm pretty sure that 1 and 2 are correct. 3 and 4 are the next longest in the US that come immediately to mind though there are probably some longer runs, most likely in Canada. Mark
1. WP Zephhyrette - Salt Lake City to Oakland 924 miles
2. RI Choctaw Rockette - Memphis to Amarillo 762 miles
3. C&EI Meadowlark - Chicago to Joppa 363 miles
4. M&StL - St Paul to DesMoines 312 miles
I'm pretty sure that 1 and 2 are correct. 3 and 4 are the next longest in the US that come immediately to mind though there are probably some longer runs, most likely in Canada.
Would No. 3 be British Columbia Ry (or its predecessor, PGE). I know they ran RDC's but I'm not sure over what route. If they ran over the entire line between Squamish and Prince George that would be a distance of 594.5 miles.
I'll take a SWAG at another Canadian run that I have only the vaguest idea might have been No. 4. In the back of my mind I seem to recall that the CP downgraded the Kootenay/Kettle Valley Express to an RDC run between Nelson and Vancouver, a distance of 513 miles.
Once passed up a chance to ride the CZ first class from Oakland to Chicago for a ride between Oakland and Salt Lake City on the RDC then completed the trip to Chicago on the CZ. It was probably one of the best trips I ever had from a railfans point of view. Rode up front with the engineers for vast stretches of the daylight portion of the trip. Most of the (passengers) were traveling on rail passes and were train crews being repositioned. Part of the seating was the ordinary flip over seats for WP employees and the deluxe seats were reserved for paying passengers but I noticed on the night portions the off duty crews were mostly sleeping in the good seats. I think for the entire trip I counted six paying passengers and I was the only one travelling the entire distance. Think many of the employees thought I belonged in an asylum. I was the first passenger they remembered in a long time to ride the RDC all of the way. When was the last time you rode a passenger train that stopped for all meals and some of the stops were at Casinos.
Name the longest four RDC runs in North America ? All were on different RRs.
passengerfan Johnny You asked a question about the original Denver Zephyrs? I was wondering if anyone looked at my answer. Al - in - Stockton
You asked a question about the original Denver Zephyrs? I was wondering if anyone looked at my answer.
passengerfan: It became the Texas Zephyr equipment minus the Shovelnose diesels operating between Denver and Dallas/Fort Worth on the CB&Q subsidiaries Colorado and Southern and Fort Worth and Denver. The equipment was pulled by E5A and B units. Al - in - Stockton
It became the Texas Zephyr equipment minus the Shovelnose diesels operating between Denver and Dallas/Fort Worth on the CB&Q subsidiaries Colorado and Southern and Fort Worth and Denver. The equipment was pulled by E5A and B units.
Johnny (8:26 MT yesterday)
Sorry to be so late in responding to your post this evening. We ate early and went to our church's Ash Wednesday service.
Johnny, again
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