Classic Train questions (50 years or older)

[Bergie]

 Hi guys,

This edition has become rather large. Can one of you start a "part II" and link back to this edition? I'm going to lock this now.

Thanks,
Erik

 

[passengerfan]

Texas Zepher

passengerfan

Name the fleet of Santa Fe named streamlined trains and there terminal cities?

Trying not to repeat the prior poster

San Diegan, San Diego-LA
California Limited, San Francisco(Richmond)-Chicago
Grand Canyon Limited, LA-Chicago
Golden Gate, LA-Richmond
Kansas Cityan/Chicagoan, Chicago-Oklahoma City
ummm ummm ummm all the others I can think of are heavyweights.

Oh duh #7 the Fast Mail & Express - the first run of the Alco PAs.  Chicago to SanFrancisco(Richmond) via LA.

Researching - Trains #93 & #96 - The West Texas Express and the Easter Express

 

You got five more California Limited was heavyweight with only a few lightweights. The Fast Mail never achieved streamliner status except for the power. In Kansas where the Fast Mail required a rider coach it was always a heavyweight. (#93 and #96 were never fully streamlined. You have four more to go. Two were very popular trains and two were lesser known.

Al - in - Stockton

[Texas Zepher]

passengerfan

Name the fleet of Santa Fe named streamlined trains and there terminal cities?

Trying not to repeat the prior poster

San Diegan, San Diego-LA
California Limited, San Francisco(Richmond)-Chicago
Grand Canyon Limited, LA-Chicago
Golden Gate, LA-Richmond
Kansas Cityan/Chicagoan, Chicago-Oklahoma City
ummm ummm ummm all the others I can think of are heavyweights.

Oh duh #7 the Fast Mail & Express - the first run of the Alco PAs.  Chicago to SanFrancisco(Richmond) via LA.

Researching - Trains #93 & #96 - The West Texas Express and the Easter Express

 

[passengerfan]

 

al-in-chgo

passengerfan

Hey Al, When we started this subject we said research would be permitted. So you named five of the Santa Fe Streamliners there is only eight more to go. Don't give up Al.

Al - in - Stockton

 

I tried to unearth my 1953 OGR last week and couldn't -- probably won't until my durn taxes are filed.

But there are a lot of readers here; you heard it from the man!  Go ahead and research.

I for one will be interested to see if the winner (i.e., first with the full right answer) uses online searching or HC. 

-  a.s.

 

 

I know how you feel about tax season I only have 49 more appointments to go plus any last minute drop ins and I can say the majority of my tax business is over until next year. I only wish that were true I have already 261 on extension so it is definitely going to be October this year before I see the end of the season and I hate to guess how many will be phoning in the next few days can I possibly have time for them. This year seems worse than ever.

Al - in - Stockton

[al-in-chgo]

passengerfan

Hey Al, When we started this subject we said research would be permitted. So you named five of the Santa Fe Streamliners there is only eight more to go. Don't give up Al.

Al - in - Stockton

 

I tried to unearth my 1953 OGR last week and couldn't -- probably won't until my durn taxes are filed.

But there are a lot of readers here; you heard it from the man!  Go ahead and research.

I for one will be interested to see if the winner (i.e., first with the full right answer) uses online searching or HC. 

-  a.s.

 

 

[passengerfan]

Hey Al, When we started this subject we said research would be permitted. So you named five of the Santa Fe Streamliners there is only eight more to go. Don't give up Al.

Al - in - Stockton

[passengerfan]

al-in-chgo

passengerfan

Name the fleet of Santa Fe named streamlined trains and there terminal cities?

Al - in - Stockton

Without researching, I am limited to the following:  The Chief, Chicago - Los Angeles; The Super Chief, all first class (Pullman) Chicago - Los Angeles; El Capitan. Chicago - L.A. (all coach but ran combined with the Super Chief from the mid-Sixties until Amtrak); and The San Francisco Chief, Chicago - San Francisco (actually Richmond, I think).  There was at one time a Texas Chief Chicago - DFW and Houston, but I don't remember when it stopped running -- might have been more than 50 years ago.  -  a.s.

 

Good Start Al But you still have a long way to go.

Al - in - Stockton

[al-in-chgo]

passengerfan

Name the fleet of Santa Fe named streamlined trains and there terminal cities?

Al - in - Stockton

Without researching, I am limited to the following:  The Chief, Chicago - Los Angeles; The Super Chief, all first class (Pullman) Chicago - Los Angeles; El Capitan. Chicago - L.A. (all coach but ran combined with the Super Chief from the mid-Sixties until Amtrak); and The San Francisco Chief, Chicago - San Francisco (actually Richmond, I think).  There was at one time a Texas Chief Chicago - DFW and Houston, but I don't remember when it stopped running -- might have been more than 50 years ago.  -  a.s.

 

[rio bill]

it was the Milwaukee and North Shore RR The cars were orange heavyweights

[passengerfan]

Name the fleet of Santa Fe named streamlined trains and there terminal cities?

Al - in - Stockton

[KCSfan]

Good job Al. You might want to add one more, the Advance Zephyr running between Chicago and Denver. IIRC this run was started in 1936 and operated with the Mark Twain and one other Zephyr (9900 maybe) trainset. It was an overnight coach run and operated only until the new Denver Zephyr coach and Pullman trainsets were delivered and put in service. I believe that at any one time the Burlington ran no more that 13 or 14 Zephyrs. It seems that the Mark Twain at times ran as the Ozark State, Advance, Twin Cities and 9902 Zephyr. I have trouble sorting out which of these trains ran at what time. In the June 1954 OG (pg. 1035) it states "Burlington Lines  26 Famous Zephyrs Travel More than 6 1/2 Million Miles a Year". Of course they're counting each direction as a separate train to arrive at the 26 total.

Mark

[passengerfan]

KCSfan

At the peak of the Burlington Zephyr era (early 1950's) just how many different Zephyrs did the CB&Q run? Anybody care to try to name them all?

Mark

I came up with 16.

Kansas City Zephyr

American Royal Zephyr

Ak-Sar-Ben Zephyr

Nebraska Zephyr

General Pershing Zephyr

Texas Zephyr

Denver Zephyr

California Zephyr

9902 Zephyr

Zephyr-Rocket

Twin Cities Zephyr (Morning Afternoon)

Mark Twain Zephyr

Sam Houston Zephyr

Ozark State Zephyr

Silver Streak Zephyr

Pioneer Zephyr ran under that name in WW 11 in Nebraska.

Al - in - Stockton

 

[KCSfan]

At the peak of the Burlington Zephyr era (early 1950's) just how many different Zephyrs did the CB&Q run? Anybody care to try to name them all?

Mark

[passengerfan]

Absolutely correct Mark your turn.

Al - in - Stockton

[KCSfan]

passengerfan

Name the six largest purchasers of Budd cars for passenger cars? Had to get something going did not want to let the forum die.

Al - in - Stockton

CB&Q, PRR, NYNH&H, NYC, SAL, ACL

Mark

[passengerfan]

al-in-chgo

wanswheel

Werner von Siemens' electric strassentramwagen 1881

http://www.siemens.pl/upload/images/TS-Siemens_lekkie%20pojazdy_historia.pdf

Stephen D. Field's obituary 1913

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9E0DEEDF143FE633A2575AC1A9639C946296D6CF

 

In the interest of fairness I should say that when I was in Switzerland the LRT's (or streetcars, as you will) were called "Tram."  This is probably internationalese or the legendary Swiss courtesy to visitors that came into play, the same way that the miniature cab  that used to be styled "Petit Taxi" in French-speaking Geneva or "Klein Taxi" in German-speaking Zuerich both changed into "Mini Taxi" by the Eighties.  Also "Tram" uses a lot less sign paint than "Strassenbahn"! 

In Vegas the term (and int'l symbol) "Tram" is used for a kind of horizontal shuttle cable car that links the Treasure Island and the Mirage.  Hard to argue against that one, pragmatically speaking.  

FWIW does anyone kmow the terms for "streetcar" or "light rail" in French?  -  a.s.

PS:  Check out "Ron's World Tram Site" at http://liverpolitan.im/trams/history.htm.  The word "tram" is very old. 

 

 

Name the six largest purchasers of Budd cars for passenger cars? Had to get something going did not want to let the forum die.

Al - in - Stockton

[al-in-chgo]

wanswheel

Werner von Siemens' electric strassentramwagen 1881

http://www.siemens.pl/upload/images/TS-Siemens_lekkie%20pojazdy_historia.pdf

Stephen D. Field's obituary 1913

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9E0DEEDF143FE633A2575AC1A9639C946296D6CF

 

In the interest of fairness I should say that when I was in Switzerland the LRT's (or streetcars, as you will) were called "Tram."  This is probably internationalese or the legendary Swiss courtesy to visitors that came into play, the same way that the miniature cab  that used to be styled "Petit Taxi" in French-speaking Geneva or "Klein Taxi" in German-speaking Zuerich both changed into "Mini Taxi" by the Eighties.  Also "Tram" uses a lot less sign paint than "Strassenbahn"! 

In Vegas the term (and int'l symbol) "Tram" is used for a kind of horizontal shuttle cable car that links the Treasure Island and the Mirage.  Hard to argue against that one, pragmatically speaking.  

FWIW does anyone kmow the terms for "streetcar" or "light rail" in French?  -  a.s.

PS:  Check out "Ron's World Tram Site" at http://liverpolitan.im/trams/history.htm.  The word "tram" is very old. 

 

 

[wanswheel]

Werner von Siemens' electric strassentramwagen 1881

http://www.siemens.pl/upload/images/TS-Siemens_lekkie%20pojazdy_historia.pdf

Stephen D. Field's obituary 1913

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9E0DEEDF143FE633A2575AC1A9639C946296D6CF

[al-in-chgo]

One source I consulted suggested "streetcar" was a partial translation from German:  Strassenbahnwagen (streeet-car).  Even today "wagen" can mean a car or a carriage, as on a train.

[wanswheel]

It's clear that tram is a much older word than streetcar. The British were accustomed to calling their horsecar a tram. I don't know why we called it a streetcar except the obvious reason, it was on tracks in the street and resembled a car. These links are to definitions of tram.

Northumberland Words 1894

http://books.google.com/books?id=_EUOAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA742

Columbian Cyclopedia 1897

http://books.google.com/books?id=dB4YAAAAYAAJ&pg=PT205

Mike

[passengerfan]

Deggesty

KCSfan

Johnny's reply reminded me that cable car operations are often referred to as tramways. However, I don't think that's what Al has in mind. Don't the Brits also call the trunk of a car the "boot"?

I rather doubt that I headed in the right direction. I have heard people in this country call a trunk a "boot"--like the boot on a stagecoach. I have also heard it called a "turtle."

Johnny

But I have only heard the Brits refer to the Hood of your car as the Bonnet.

Al - in - Stockton

[Deggesty]

KCSfan

Johnny's reply reminded me that cable car operations are often referred to as tramways. However, I don't think that's what Al has in mind. Don't the Brits also call the trunk of a car the "boot"?

I rather doubt that I headed in the right direction. I have heard people in this country call a trunk a "boot"--like the boot on a stagecoach. I have also heard it called a "turtle."

Johnny

[KCSfan]

Deggesty

The idea of this is not modern, but calling it a "tram" may be. There is a tram (powered by an electric motor) at Snowbird Ski & Summer Resort (we resort to it in summertime only; it's twenty-four miles away and ten degrees cooler), which is up Little Cottonwood Canyon. The tram takes you about 4000 feet up from Snowbird Center to the top of Hidden Peak. You can ride the tram back down or, in the winter, ski down, or, when the trails are open, walk down.  The cars are suspended from cables, and do not touch the ground at any place. In Italy, such were called "funiculars."

I have no idea as to why some people will call a streetcar a "tram"; I had always thought of it as being akin to calling the hood of a car a "bonnet."

Johnny

Johnny's reply reminded me that cable car operations are often referred to as tramways. However, I don't think that's what Al has in mind. Don't the Brits also call the trunk of a car the "boot"?

Mark

[Deggesty]

al-in-chgo

Bonus Point:  Give an example of a transit device called "tram" in North America.  (Hint: It's modern).

The idea of this is not modern, but calling it a "tram" may be. There is a tram (powered by an electric motor) at Snowbird Ski & Summer Resort (we resort to it in summertime only; it's twenty-four miles away and ten degrees cooler), which is up Little Cottonwood Canyon. The tram takes you about 4000 feet up from Snowbird Center to the top of Hidden Peak. You can ride the tram back down or, in the winter, ski down, or, when the trails are open, walk down.  The cars are suspended from cables, and do not touch the ground at any place. In Italy, such were called "funiculars."

I have no idea as to why some people will call a streetcar a "tram"; I had always thought of it as being akin to calling the hood of a car a "bonnet."

Johnny

[KCSfan]

The forerunners of streetcars were drawn by horses and I believe were always referred to as horse cars, not streetcars, When they were electrified the name streetcar came into use to distinguish them from the "steam cars" that generally ran on private railroad ROW"s not down the middle of city streets. I believe streetcar and trolley (or trolley car) are synonomous and can be used interchangably. People in the city where I live spoke of riding the trolley and all stops were designated by signs that read "Trolley Stop"

While this sounds reasonable, the real origin of the name, streetcar, may well be more complex than my simple answer.

Mark

[passengerfan]

Here in the US we had Streetcars and Interurbans.

In Vancouver Canada they had Streetcars and Trams. The Trams were the hevay interurbans operated by the British Columbia Electric. And the streetcars were PCC type operated on the streets of Vancouver. The trams were about twice the size of the streetcars and any collision between the two always resulted in the streetcars getting the short end of the stick. I have no idea how streetcars came to be called streetcars.

Al - in - Stockton

[al-in-chgo]

Deggesty

KCSfan

As I said before I've already deleted the question I had in mind in response to Henry's admonition and have reposted it on the "History Quiz" thread in the Trains forum. I'll just pass for now and let someone else have a turn here.

Mark

This is wide open for the next question--the next poster who has a question gets to pose it.

Johnny

Okay, here's one:  Briefly explain how streetcars in N. America came to be called "streetcars" and not "trams," as in England. 

Bonus Point:  Give an example of a transit device called "tram" in North America.  (Hint: It's modern).

 

[Deggesty]

KCSfan

As I said before I've already deleted the question I had in mind in response to Henry's admonition and have reposted it on the "History Quiz" thread in the Trains forum. I'll just pass for now and let someone else have a turn here.

Mark

This is wide open for the next question--the next poster who has a question gets to pose it.

Johnny

[KCSfan]

As I said before I've already deleted the question I had in mind in response to Henry's admonition and have reposted it on the "History Quiz" thread in the Trains forum. I'll just pass for now and let someone else have a turn here.

Mark