Classic Train questions (50 years or older)

[henry6]

I'm wracking my brain to a mid 50's magazine article that puts that image in my head.   But I don't remember whether it was Modern Railroads, Trains, or Railroad!

[wanswheel]

Al's asylum

http://wpmuseum.railfan.net/adwpbudd.jpg

http://photoswest.org/photos/00401501/00401556.jpg

Mike

[KCSfan]

Deggesty

KCSfan

Would No. 3 be British Columbia Ry (or its predecessor, PGE). I know they ran RDC's but I'm not sure over what route. If they ran over the entire line between Squamish and Prince George that would be a distance of 594.5 miles.

According to the Canadian Trackside Guide 2007, The milepost at North Vancouver (south end of the RDC run) is 1.4, and the milepost at Prince George (north end of the longer run) is 462.4, which gives 461.0 miles.

Johnny

Johnny,

Your correction got me to re-check the distance and I think it was even less than you stated. According to an OG in the 50's the PGE (which became the BCR) started at Squamish Dock and ran to Prince George; total distance per the OG 428.8 miles. Vancouver is shown as another 33.7 miles from Squamish Dock. I may be wrong but I thought the Vancouver to Squamish part of the route was by ferry boat and the RDC run only started at Squamish.

[Deggesty]

Mark, for many years, Squamish was the southernmost point on the PGE ("Prince George Eventually"), but in the fifties, it was extended to North Vancouver, and once the track was usable, the trains originated and terminated there. there was an interesting article in Railway Progress  about the advertising campaign to induce the NIMBY's to quit their protests against the extension. I don't remember the year that through passenger service was abandoned, but once it was possible, the service ran from North Vancouver to Prince George on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, and returned fron Prince George the next day. The other days of the week, the train ran between North Vancouver and Lillooet only. As I remember, Lillooet was the northern terminus until in the fifties. The road was something of an orphan.

Until the through passenger service was abandoned, I hoped that we would be able to make the round trip on the RDC's. I still hope we will be able to travel between Jasper and Prince Rupert, with a round trip between Prince Rupert and Port Hardy (overnight on the ferry each way).

A few years ago, CN absorbed the BCR.

Johnny

[passengerfan]

Deggesty

Mark, for many years, Squamish was the southernmost point on the PGE ("Prince George Eventually"), but in the fifties, it was extended to North Vancouver, and once the track was usable, the trains originated and terminated there. there was an interesting article in Railway Progress  about the advertising campaign to induce the NIMBY's to quit their protests against the extension. I don't remember the year that through passenger service was abandoned, but once it was possible, the service ran from North Vancouver to Prince George on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, and returned fron Prince George the next day. The other days of the week, the train ran between North Vancouver and Lillooet only. As I remember, Lillooet was the northern terminus until in the fifties. The road was something of an orphan.

Until the through passenger service was abandoned, I hoped that we would be able to make the round trip on the RDC's. I still hope we will be able to travel between Jasper and Prince Rupert, with a round trip between Prince Rupert and Port Hardy (overnight on the ferry each way).

A few years ago, CN absorbed the BCR.

Johnny

The RDCs did not arrive on the PGE until after the Vancouver extension was completed and they were named the Cariboo Dayliners. Since I had grandparents that lived in Vancouver I was fortunate enough to ride the new RDC services the year they entered service between Vancouver and Squamish and return. A couple of years prior to that my Dad, brother and I rented a boat on Howe Sound at Horseshoe bay where the BC Ferries operate from and went fishing. Next we heard several explosions and rocks began falling in the water all around us. They were blasting the PGE ROW out of the cliffs along the sound. Needless to say that ended the fishing trip rather quickly for us.

The fourth long RDC trip is in eastern Canada and none that anyone has named so far. It is a route that no one would think about as an RDC run. But a daily RDC trip operated for a number of years in each direction along this most unexpected route.

Al - in - Stockton

[al-in-chgo]

from above post:  "The fourth long RDC trip is in eastern Canada and none that anyone has named so far. It is a route that no one would think about as an RDC run. But a daily RDC trip operated for a number of years in each direction along this most unexpected route.

Al - in - Stockton" 

 

Up until recently, if not now, VIA had one of its "railliners" in summer service only in the Maritimes.  Juding by online VIA literature I recieved some time ago (and didn't research), it was marketed more as a summer-tourist thing than mere transportation.   -  al-in-chgo

 

[passengerfan]

Sorry Al - in - Chicago Not the Maritimes, It was Eastern Canada and It did continue to operate for awhile after Via Rail Canada but was originally a CN route. For sometime this RDC route was even a named train.  Via discontinued the RDC's on this route but still continues to operate other trains.

Al - in - Stockton

[KCSfan]

Johnny and Al,

Thanks for the info on the PGE/BCR. I've never been to the Pacific Northwest and my knowledge of ops in that area is pretty limited. I was completely unaware of the extension to N. Vancouver. I look forward to these discussions and have learned much from you posters and the research I've had to do to try to answer the questions. Right now I haven't a clue as to the long RDC run in eastern Canada but I'll start searching and may come up with a SWAG tomorrow if the question hasn't been answered by then.

Mark

[passengerfan]

KCSfan

Johnny and Al,

Thanks for the info on the PGE/BCR. I've never been to the Pacific Northwest and my knowledge of ops in that area is pretty limited. I was completely unaware of the extension to N. Vancouver. I look forward to these discussions and have learned much from you posters and the research I've had to do to try to answer the questions. Right now I haven't a clue as to the long RDC run in eastern Canada but I'll start searching and may come up with a SWAG tomorrow if the question hasn't been answered by then.

Mark

Mark

It is really to bad you have not visited the Northwest. It is a beautiful place especially for a railfan between the raindrops. It's to bad the BCR is gone and the RDC trips between Vancouver and Prince George. It was probably one of the most beautiful trips in North America with spectacular scenery. It has been rumored that Rocky Mountain Railtours may be planning a Vancouver - Prince George - Jasper trip but I guess with economic times the way they are I haven't heard anymore about it.

Al - in - Stockton

[henry6]

So if it weren't a Maritime ride it was either a Toronto to Ottawa run or the Newfoundlad run.

[passengerfan]

 

henry6

So if it weren't a Maritime ride it was either a Toronto to Ottawa run or the Newfoundlad run.

Newfoundland was narrow gauge and CN never owned any narrow gauge RDCs so that lets that out. As to your other answer it was Toronto on the one hand but not Ottawa on the other. No cigar yet.

Al - in - Stockton

[henry6]

Well, east of Toronto would be the Maritimes and that's been ruled out.  Sudbury hits me westbound but so does Hudson Bay on the ON, but don't remember RDC's on ON.  If I remember the Sudbury run was every other day, up one, back the next.

[Deggesty]

passengerfan

It is really to bad you have not visited the Northwest. It is a beautiful place especially for a railfan between the raindrops. It's to bad the BCR is gone and the RDC trips between Vancouver and Prince George. It was probably one of the most beautiful trips in North America with spectacular scenery. It has been rumored that Rocky Mountain Railtours may be planning a Vancouver - Prince George - Jasper trip but I guess with economic times the way they are I haven't heard anymore about it.

Al - in - Stockton

Al, and everybody else who is interested, check this out: http://www.all-canada.co.uk/whistler-mountaineer-fraser-discovery.asp

I had forgotten about this when I posted my comments on the BCR yesterday.

Ricki and I have been to Courtenay and back twice; we enjoyed the trip both times. I was showing pictures I had taken to a friend, and he asked why we went if we were not going to see somebody or we knew of nothing special in Courtenay. He could not understand the joy of riding a train and seeing what is there.

Johnny

[Deggesty]

Al, after checking the Guides I have from March of 1975 to May of 1982, I found one RDC schedule out of Toronto; it was to North Bay, which is 228 miles long. This existed into VIA. I also found, under VIA operation (never CN), an RDC schedule between Halifax, N. S., and Fredericton, N. B., which was 345 miles (so far as I know, this was the only through service ever between those two capital cities). This is, of course, in the Maritimes (as the service in Newfoundland was). If you are thinking of the Northlander when it was a day trip between Timmins and Toronto (487 miles), no RDC equipment, only coaches and diner, was indicated.

I could find no other RDC operation out of Toronto.

In the spring of 1984, I rode an RDC schedule from Montreal to Ottawa and back, but this is too short for your question.

Johnny

[passengerfan]

Deggesty

Al, after checking the Guides I have from March of 1975 to May of 1982, I found one RDC schedule out of Toronto; it was to North Bay, which is 228 miles long. This existed into VIA. I also found, under VIA operation (never CN), an RDC schedule between Halifax, N. S., and Fredericton, N. B., which was 345 miles (so far as I know, this was the only through service ever between those two capital cities). This is, of course, in the Maritimes (as the service in Newfoundland was). If you are thinking of the Northlander when it was a day trip between Timmins and Toronto (487 miles), no RDC equipment, only coaches and diner, was indicated.

I could find no other RDC operation out of Toronto.

In the spring of 1984, I rode an RDC schedule from Montreal to Ottawa and back, but this is too short for your question.

Johnny

For about three years the CN operated three and four unit RDC sets between Toronto and Montreal as an all stops local they paused for about one hour in Kingston each way for crew change and to permit through passengers to get off and get lunch. As I recall the eastbound and westbound were in Kingston at the same time as I understand it was not uncommon for passengers to board the wrong train. These were also the fastest RDC runs in Canada. Track speed for the most part was 79mph or better and the RDCs were only able to do 79 I believe. One of the RDCs was always an RDC 2 the others being RDC1s or the single engined ones they got from B&M.

Haven't checked the mileage but CP also operated one or two RDcs that originated in Peterborough each morning and ran to Toronto as kind of a commuter service than continued on to Detroit. The pair that left Detroit operated to Peterborough where they overnighted for the return ever other day.

By the way I remember the Northlander when it operated with the Dutch trainsets and when they replaced the Dutch diesels with FP9A or FP7A anyway it was one or the other.  

Whoever answered the most correct has a turn now.

Al - in - Stockton 

[Deggesty]

Al, I believe that the Halifax-Fredericton run (345 miles) beats the Montreal-Toronto run (335 miles). I do not doubt your information on the Montreal-Toronto run; I did not notice any mention of RDC equipment in the schedules I looked at; all of them had real names. The Halifax-Fredericton had no name except "Railiner." The Guides with the information are at the bottom of a tall stack, and I do not want to pick them all up again.

passengerfan

Whoever answered the most correct has a turn now.

Al - in - Stockton 

Mark, that's you.

Johnny

[passengerfan]

Deggesty

Al, I believe that the Halifax-Fredericton run (345 miles) beats the Montreal-Toronto run (335 miles). I do not doubt your information on the Montreal-Toronto run; I did not notice any mention of RDC equipment in the schedules I looked at; all of them had real names. The Halifax-Fredericton had no name except "Railiner." The Guides with the information are at the bottom of a tall stack, and I do not want to pick them all up again.

passengerfan

Whoever answered the most correct has a turn now.

Al - in - Stockton 

Mark, that's you.

Johnny

Johnny

I stand corrected I found the Halifax -  Fredericton run and you are right. OK Mark it is your turn.

Al - in - Stockton 

[Deggesty]

passengerfan

I stand corrected I found the Halifax -  Fredericton run and you are right. OK Mark it is your turn.

Mark, Al has been standing for almost seven hours now. Please let him sit down. I hope he can sleep while standing.

Johnny

[KCSfan]

Sorry to keep y'all waiting. Been on a short two day trip. Here's the next question.

This question goes back to the pre-streamliner era, say 1930-35. Just about all railroads had a premier passenger train that would be considered their  “flagship”.  Examples with which we’re all familiar would be the Broadway and 20th Century Ltds. of the PRR and NYC. What were the premier trains of the following roads? 1. Southern Pacific2. New Haven3. Louisville & Nashville4. Milwaukee5. Illinois Terminal6. Chesapeake & Ohio7. Seaboard8. Illinois Central9. Rutland10. Frisco Mark

[passengerfan]

KCSfan

Sorry to keep y'all waiting. Been on a short two day trip. Here's the next question.

 

This question goes back to the pre-streamliner era, say 1930-35. Just about all railroads had a premier passenger train that would be considered their  “flagship”.  Examples with which we’re all familiar would be the Broadway and 20th Century Ltds. of the PRR and NYC. What were the premier trains of the following roads? 1. Southern Pacific2. New Haven3. Louisville & Nashville4. Milwaukee5. Illinois Terminal6. Chesapeake & Ohio7. Seaboard8. Illinois Central9. Rutland10. Frisco Mark

Nice to hear yor back. Before I go to sleep will take a stab at your ten part quiz.

1. SP Sunset Limited

2 NH Merchants Limited

3 L&N Pan American

4 Milw Olympian or Pioneer Ltd,

5 IT ?

6 C&O George Washington Ltd.

7 Seaboard Orange Blossom Special

8 IC Panama Limited

9 Rutland?

10 Frisco Texas Special or Meteor

Al - in - Stockton

[passengerfan]

To fill in the blanks.

5 IT Owl

9 Rutland Green Mountain Flyer

10 Frisco Meteor or Oil Fields Special

Al - in - Stockton

[KCSfan]

Al,

Between your two replies I'd say you've identified all the trains correctly. Prior to streamlining of the Texas Special I think the Frisco considered the Meteor their premier train. I had in mind the Illmo Ltd. of the ITC though the overnight Owl with its sleeper is an acceptable answer.

If you aren't too busy with tax matters shoot us the next question.

Mark

[passengerfan]

Prior to Amtrak How many different 6 wheel and 4 wheel trucks were found under the lightweight passenger cars built by AC&F Budd SLC and Pullman Standard?

Al - in - Stockton

[passengerfan]

passengerfan

Prior to Amtrak How many different 6 wheel and 4 wheel trucks were found under the lightweight passenger cars built by AC&F Budd SLC and Pullman Standard?

Al - in - Stockton

Lets make the question a little easier and just ask how many different six wheel trucks were under the streamlined passenger cars prior to Amtrak.

Al - in - Stockton 

[passengerfan]

Seems like no one is interested in the questions so I will pass to someone else . Just for information there were six different lightweight trucks with six wheels and twenty four lightweight 4 wheel trucks before Amtrak and that does not include some of the early Zephyr and UP trucks.

If anyone wants a list of the different trucks send me an e-mail.

Al - in - Stockton

[Deggesty]

passengerfan

Seems like no one is interested in the questions so I will pass to someone else .

Al, could it be that nobody else even has the slightest idea, but is interested in learning?

Johnny

[al-in-chgo]

Deggesty

passengerfan

fke no one is interested in the questions so I will pass to someone else .

Al, could it be that nobody else even has the slightest idea, but is interested in learning?

Johnny

That's about how I feel about it.  I'll never learn everything about everything trains, but adding facts is fun!  -  al

[henry6]

Me too!  At first I didn't understand the question but then I figured it out to mean that there were several different styles or  manufacturers or both of the 6 wheel trucks as found under certain passenger cars which Amtrak inherited.  Not an off the top of mind answer type question except for those totally immersed in the subject at hand.  Unfortunately today most fans are just photogs with long lenses.

[passengerfan]

Deggesty

passengerfan

Seems like no one is interested in the questions so I will pass to someone else .

Al, could it be that nobody else even has the slightest idea, but is interested in learning?

Johnny

Seems you are not the only one Johnny so I will do up a short listing of the different passenger trucks over the next couple of days and post it for all who are interested. Never thought I was the only one interested in all of the ins and outs of passenger cars so will complete the list and provide it over next couple of days. Really busy with tax season know so will probably be two or three days before I can complete it.

In the mean time someone else have a question.

Al - in - Stockton

[Deggesty]

passengerfan

In the mean time someone else have a question

Lest the thread die, I will propose one. For many years, the N&W handled an overnight sleeper from New York into Roanoke that it picked up in Hagerstown, Md., from, first, the Cumberland Valley, and then the PRR, after the CV was absorbed by the PRR. However in the last year or more that the car was operated (I did not make a note of the date of the change, but it was in the sixties) the PRR abandoned passenger service into Hagerstown, and another road was the N&W's connection for this car.

The question is, what railroad then delivered to (and took from) the N&W the car so that there was still overnight service between NYC and Roanoke (it was NOT the Southern), and what were the interchange points? For extra credit, name this road's train that handled the car.

Johnny