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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, July 7, 2020 9:03 AM

azrail
How did we survive recurring bouts of polio, measles, and the Asian flus before vaccines?

People died.

  

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, July 7, 2020 8:53 AM

York1: Do you know the original reason for why the voters' ballots in larger population states count for less than those in places with fewer people and cities?  Do you think this legacy designed to protect the power of slave-holding states is right today? 

HRC was always a weak candidate - not *likable* enough. So in 2016, voter turnout was down (although she still got 3 million more votes than her opponent) and once again we elected a candidate with a minority (not even a plurality)  of votes.  In this case,  a person with no skills or experience  has proven his incompetence day after day,  at best. 

Absentee voting by mail-in ballots has long,  safe history of use.  Even the current occupant uses this system.  Yet he and the GOP oppose its use in the middle of a pandemic.  Why?  Part of their strategy of voter restriction and suppression. 

The once-proud GOP is a battered shell of its former self and our nation is a divided wreck. It will take a long time to undo the damage. And that is a real tragedy. 

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Posted by jcburns on Tuesday, July 7, 2020 8:50 AM

Most of what you've written here about Secretary Clinton (which you can't resist saying, look, I'm using her correct title, not namecalling, which kinda gets the job done anyway.)

by the way, I've been to all 50 states, 12 Mexican states, 10 Canadian provinces.

spent substantial time in many. I've lived in big cities and the most rural counties in a state. And a big part of our travel is to absorb how people live and think. Is that enough for you? I suspect it's not.

 

 

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Posted by jcburns on Tuesday, July 7, 2020 8:42 AM

100% schoolyard comeback.

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Posted by jcburns on Tuesday, July 7, 2020 8:41 AM

no, it's not as diverse as it could be. Not by a long shot. And I've seen the moves over the years to make it harder for poor people to have jobs that pay fair wages and have the kind of access to health care wealthier people do. 

And I get out quite a bit when not trying to flatten the curve. 

you can call me names all you want ("big city elitist"--ha, that's a good one!) or claim I'm in a bubble, but that just sounds to me like someone who wants to dismiss the content of my posts. That's your choice, but I'm disappointed. You could do better.

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Posted by jcburns on Tuesday, July 7, 2020 8:31 AM

Only if the cross between Cronkite and Rogers committed impeachable offenses.

The democratic leadership was VERY reluctant (and that was for real) to begin the impeachment process. I think one of the reasons was because the Trump administration developed this novel "just ignore subpoenas and congressional requests" approach, assuming (correctly) that if they couldn't get people who were involved on the record, they could get away from crimes. I would have preferred Congress issue subpoenas and literally arrest those who defied them.

and don't get me started on the absolutely illegal profiting Trump's company has made over foreign and domestic entities. Emoluments! He calls it the "phony emoluments clause,” but it's right there in the Constitution.

would any of that happened if a different Republican was in the office? I doubt it, because someone like McCain or Romney seem to respect the rule of law.

 

i think when Trump does something "good" it gets reported. Which is how you've heard about them.

 

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Posted by York1 on Tuesday, July 7, 2020 8:26 AM

charlie hebdo
Some people on here prefer a distorted view of history,  looking at the US through red-colored lenses.  "The times, they are a changing."

And .... some people on here prefer a distorted view of history, looking at the US through blue-colored lenses.

York1 John       

I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer?  He said, "No, but it will seem longer."

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, July 7, 2020 8:18 AM

Some people on here prefer a distorted view of history,  looking at the US through red-colored lenses. 

"The times, they are a changing."

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, July 7, 2020 7:55 AM

jcburns
i for one welcome a more diverse, compassionate, and interesting America.

Mr. Burns, with all due respect, if you don't believe it's that way to begin with then you musn't get out very much.  You haven't seen as much of this country and it's people as you think you have, and you don't know (or care to know) as much as you think you do.

Why do I sense I'm speaking to someone caught in a metropolitan bubble?  Or someone trying not to be a big city elitist but just can't help himself?  

You can have the last word.  I'm "departing the frequency."

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Posted by York1 on Tuesday, July 7, 2020 7:54 AM

The Supreme Court cannot change the fact that the Electoral College picks the president in this republic.  The Supreme Court does not have that power.

The case they are hearing has merely to do with how an elector votes in his state, or, in two states, his district.

To do away with the Electoral College would take an amendment to the Constitution approved by at least 38 states.

York1 John       

I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer?  He said, "No, but it will seem longer."

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, July 7, 2020 7:42 AM

I wasn't going to jump into this dog fight, but...

Look at that map.  That's why Secretary Clinton lost. Note I'm being respectful here and using her last title, instead of the diminutive "Hillary."

Secretary Clinton lost because she was LAZY.  She believed her own polling data which predicted a walk-in and thought she didn't have to try too hard.

She made the SAME MISTAKE in 2008 when Barack Obama sneaked in and stole the nomination out from under her.  When she realized what was happening she hit the campaign trail hard and was fighting her way back up but it was too late.   

Eight years later and she hadn't learned a thing.  It was her election to lose, and lose it she did.

Thomas Dewey made the same  mistake in 1948 when he lost the election to Harry Truman.

Trump won for two reasons.  First, he didn't run like a politician, he ran like a businessman.  He saw the underserved market and went after it, hard.  Second, and a Democratic strategist (who's name I don't recall, sorry) said it flat-out:

"Donald Trump was a brick thrown through the window of the Washington establishment."

You want to be president?  Then you'd better be ready to work your butt off for the job like you've never worked for anything before!  YOU have to do it, and not surrogates.

Why do we have an Electoral College?  Read the history of the Constitutional Covention and the "small-state large-state" controversies.  The Electoral College has NOTHING to do with keeping "white men" in power.  Back in those days in most states only white men who were property owners could vote anyway, their "power" if you want to call it that was secure anyway.  The EC provides the same kind of balance that's provided by states only getting two senators irregardless of population. 

You know who wants to get rid of the Electoral College?  The same ones who say "I'd rather be right than be president."

Every loser.

By the way, this time around it's Trump's election to lose.  My God, the Democrats had four years to get ready and Joe Biden (who's not a bad guy) is the best they can come up with?  Reminds me of what Will Rogers once said...

"I don't belong to an organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"

 

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, July 7, 2020 6:59 AM

jcburns

I'm the same guy if I live in the big city or the most rural county in the state. And know what? So are you.

Here's the results of the last presidential election:

In the last election, Trump won approximately 2,600 counties to Clinton’s 500, or about 84% of the geographic United States. However, Clinton won 88 of of the 100 largest counties (including Washington D.C.). Without these 100 largest counties she would have lost by 11.5 million votes.

Big cities tend to be more liberal than the rest of the country.  If that's where your beliefs lie, it makes perfect sense that you don't mind if those 100 largest counties make the decision for the rest of the country.  

The electoral college also forces the presidential candidates to consider the wishes of the folks in flyover country.  If all they had to worry about winning was those 100 counties, why bother visiting Pocatello, Idaho?  Those votes won't matter.   Brooklyn has over a million voters, all of Idaho has a little over 800,000.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, July 7, 2020 3:22 AM

A bit of history:

The "Founding Fathers" recognized that pure Democracy could indeed lead to "mob rule," where minority rights would be neglected.  What they particularly were concerned about was the possibility of populous mostly urgan areas neglecting the welfare of less populated rural areas.  Thus the Fedeeral System, with popular rule in Congress balanced by States Rights in the Senate.  The existing system of election is also an attempt at this balance.

Are you really the same person say first working on an assembly line in Dearborn and then saving money and buying a ranch and raising cattle as an employer of others in Wyoming?  Sure, physically and as far as memory goes you are the same person.  But you may wish the Federal Government had piorities smeewhat different in the second case than in the first.

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Posted by azrail on Tuesday, July 7, 2020 1:48 AM

How did we survive recurring bouts of polio, measles, and the Asian flus before vaccines?

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Posted by azrail on Tuesday, July 7, 2020 1:30 AM

We're not a democracy, we were designed to be a Federal Republic with a representative government. A democracy leads to mob rule and an immobile government (like ancient Greece)

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Posted by jcburns on Monday, July 6, 2020 11:07 PM

I'm the same guy if I live in the big city or the most rural county in the state. And know what? So are you.

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Posted by jcburns on Monday, July 6, 2020 11:05 PM

Yes, I would be very happy if we chose our President by a vote of all the people, everyone who can legally vote (and that should be all Americans above age 18) should vote and the most votes wins period.  Completely agree with BaltACD.

Larry, you act as if the big city people are somehow what, lesser? Scary? Inferior?

i for one welcome a more diverse, compassionate, and interesting America. I'm ready. I'm MORE than ready.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, July 6, 2020 10:32 PM

tree68
 
jcburns
Yes, I was glad to see the Supreme Court today take the first step down (what may be a very long) path that invalidates the Electoral College, which was developed (among other reasons) to assure that those in power were white men, landowners. 

So you'd be happy with NYC, LA, and SFO deciding who the president is - because the votes of those who live in the "flyover states" would not mean a thing anymore.   

That's the beauty of the electoral college system - the big population centers can't lord over the less populated areas.  

We already have that problem in NY state, where the City picks our governor for us.  And it shows.  If it weren't for the NYS Fair, Cuomo wouldn't even acknowledge upstate exists.

One person, one vote!  It dosn't get any more of a democracy than that.

Anything that gives one person the effect of more than one vote is abhorrent.

The Electoral College is abhorrent.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, July 6, 2020 10:27 PM

jcburns
Yes, I was glad to see the Supreme Court today take the first step down (what may be a very long) path that invalidates the Electoral College, which was developed (among other reasons) to assure that those in power were white men, landowners.

So you'd be happy with NYC, LA, and SFO deciding who the president is - because the votes of those who live in the "flyover states" would not mean a thing anymore.  

That's the beauty of the electoral college system - the big population centers can't lord over the less populated areas.  

We already have that problem in NY state, where the City picks our governor for us.  And it shows.  If it weren't for the NYS Fair, Cuomo wouldn't even acknowledge upstate exists.

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, July 6, 2020 10:16 PM

jcburns
we can get back to being the UNITED States. 

We'd be there now if it weren't for the concerted effort to get the current POTUS out off office.  

And I put it that way because we could have elected a cross between Walter Cronkite and Fred Rogers (and I'm not comparing, so don't start) as a Republican in 2016 and the effort to remove the POTUS would have had the same head of steam.  Trump certainly gives the pundits a lot of material to work with - but when was the last time you heard anything from the MSM that was good about him?  He has done some good things - but you'll never hear that from them.  

The Dem's platform for the 2020 election is "get Trump out of office."  Has been since the day of the election.

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Posted by jcburns on Monday, July 6, 2020 10:15 PM

I think stopping is a good idea. The verbal struggles of the current president exceed those of Joe Biden by a very large measure. Are you watching Biden talk to victims of shootings? Sitting in a church, listening respectfully?

Wow.

Yes, I was glad to see the Supreme Court today take the first step down (what may be a very long) path that invalidates the Electoral College, which was developed (among other reasons) to assure that those in power were white men, landowners.

I'll be delighted to see that go.

But imagine. 2.9 MILLION people. And we could have had a President who knew what to do when a global pandemic struck, instead of tossing away valuable planning from his predecessor.

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Posted by Gramp on Monday, July 6, 2020 10:04 PM

jcburns, Back in the 80's when I had CSpan on cable, I would listen to politicians' speeches.  And TV news reports of those speeches.  Much of the time, what I saw and heard was decidedly different than what was reported.  I don't know if you've experienced being with people who are developing dementia.  I don't need to follow political spin machines.  I have listened to Biden speak.  I'm not talking about his gaffs.  He's famous for them.  Listen to him if/when he speaks.

In a presidential election, electoral votes are what counts.  Had popular votes been what counted in '16, Trump would have run his campaign differently to reflect that.  Your emphasizing the popular vote speaks to what I said about the Dems not accepting they were defeated.  

I'll stop now, cause this is all far from railroads.

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, July 6, 2020 9:46 PM

tree68
Last time I lived in MI, I believe it had a Republican governor.  I could be wrong.  I still have a fair number of friends there, though, and they don't have a very high opinion of Whitmer.  Vast areas of the city of Detroit are composed of empty lots.  

I am failing to see how the loss of the auto industry (due to the absolute crap the manufacturers were designing and putting out in the 70s, 80s and 90s - all while laughing about those funny names like Toyota and Honda) is the blame of the current governor.  Big industry is gone, while it sucks, many places in the country never had that big industry to lose.  What do you do? 

One of our largest empoyers historically made TV tubes.  Can't really blame the mayor for that one. 

  

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Posted by jcburns on Monday, July 6, 2020 9:35 PM

Thanks for your response, Larry, although it's loaded with a lot of that namecalling. 

 

Most of my friends in Michigan—in Detroit, in Grosse Pointe, in Lansing, in Traverse City, in the Upper Peninsula—tell me that Gretchen Whitmer is doing a great job of sticking with the science under tough circumstances. The previous Republican governor, Rick Snyder, tried that little deal with Flint that gave its citizens water with high lead levels for years. (He still may be prosecuted for that crime.)

Sounds like you have a problem with governors requiring severe measures for the public health. Or even not so severe ones, like wearing a mask. Well, especially when the federal government doesn't provide leadership, it falls on the governors to do it. NY Governor Cuomo's policies have been VERY similar to Ohio governor Mike DeWine, a Republican. BOTH are given high marks in the pandemic.

I'm originally from Ohio. I'm not a Republican. But I give DeWine high marks for taking the pandemic seriously and making a difference.

But I hear you. The people I talk to in upstate NY and in the five boroughs say that they made it through a bad situation thanks to the governor. But you don't like him personally (or maybe you just don't like his party.) Me, I'm not a fan or him or his brother personally, but he did buckle down and get New Yorkers aware of the challenge, and it sounds like maybe so far so good?

The "tammany hall" stuff you lay on him—isn't that the name that gets pulled out for every governor they've had, Rockefeller, Wagner, Spitzer, Pataki--they ALL get that "tammany hall corrumption" thing called out early and often, in my experience...?

You can paint him as an emperor, but isn't that pretty much how NYState's system was set up under (let me check) Republican governors?

Kentucky had a corrupt republican governor working hand in hand with McConnell and wife Elaine Chao to get a Russian-owned firm to take over a plant in Ashland, KY. The people of the commonwealth voted him out, but not before he pardoned 428 people 3 days before leaving office. You know, convicted murderers, rapists, and one murderer who donated $20,000 to his campaign.

Funny you should mention hope...that's one thing that comes up again and again in KY now that there's been a change. "Now there's hope."

Thanks for your thoughts. My hope is that in November, once the corrupt "current occupant" has left the building, we can get back to being the UNITED States. 

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, July 6, 2020 9:05 PM

jcburns

Larry, what do you think is being lost in cities and states run by Democrats?

In the case of NY, people. I'm surprised PA can't make a fortune on speeding tickets to people fleeing the state.  In the face of a $6 BILLION budget deficit, the governor gives himself a $70,000 a year raise.  After the state lost almost a billion it invested in a failed industry in Buffalo.  It is no secret that nothing happens in NY unless the emperor says so.  Cuomo set up a commission to study corruption, the closed it down when they got a little too close.  Cuomo makes Boss Tweed and Tamany Hall look like a boys club.

Cuomo is one of the petit tyrants that have emerged during the panicdemic.  They gained the ability to rule by fiat under states of emergency, and they are reluctant to give up that absolute authority.

Most of the state north of Westchester County would like to cut NYC off and let it float out to sea.  And take Cuomo with it.  They're the ones who elected him.  It's unfortunate that he's still got two years left of his current term.

Good ol' Chicago - strictest gun laws in the country, and it leads the country in murders.  If you go to the south side, wear body armor.

Last time I lived in MI, I believe it had a Republican governor.  I could be wrong.  I still have a fair number of friends there, though, and they don't have a very high opinion of Whitmer.  Vast areas of the city of Detroit are composed of empty lots.  

I'm not sure I can quantify what's being lost in Dem controlled areas, unless it's hope.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Monday, July 6, 2020 8:40 PM

Gramp

The Dems could not accept that they put up a lousy candidate in '16, and lost the election fair and square. Instead of using self-reflection and determining something sound they could offer the American public, they created hoax after hoax to try to bring Trump down. Now they're using a man with dementia as a puppet candidate to try to somehow mask their ugly slide to the left. Cue the Lord's Prayer. My two cents. One for the postcard, one for the stamp, cancelled RPO. 

If that's what they did, they learned from the Republicans during Mr. Clinton's and Obama's terms in power. 

RE:  Dementia, were I a Republican strategist I would be very cautious about playing that card.  Trump slurs his speech regularly and had trouble picking up a glass of water.  Doesn't exactly inspire confidence in that "very big brain". 

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, July 6, 2020 8:36 PM

Trump has only wanted the celebrity of the Presidency - he has NEVER wanted the JOB of the Presidency.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by jcburns on Monday, July 6, 2020 8:30 PM

A "lousy candidate" got more than 2.9 million votes more than Trump. I hear you think that the reporting on criminal acts by the President were "hoaxes." Why do you use that word? Because he did. He was impeached for real crimes. The other crimes he has committed are being kept from prosecution by AG Barr's theory is that you can't charge a sitting President. (Nowhere in the Constitution.) And then (again parroting the Trump campaign rumor machine) you try to assert Biden has dementia. THAT is an ugly slide to perpetuate that. The man was Vice President. He's smart, but most importantly he cares about human beings! He has compassion, empathy. And he likes trains. Shame on you for perpetuating propoganda.

i hear you loud and clear: you think a shift to the left is "ugly." What I see on the left is a sense that working people have been screwed by billionaire owners...who say poor people should have to fight for health care, like the President wants the states to fight over PPE.

If that's the line, I'll proudly stand on the left with the compassionate folks.

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Posted by Gramp on Monday, July 6, 2020 8:14 PM

The Dems could not accept that they put up a lousy candidate in '16, and lost the election fair and square. Instead of using self-reflection and determining something sound they could offer the American public, they created hoax after hoax to try to bring Trump down. Now they're using a man with dementia as a puppet candidate to try to somehow mask their ugly slide to the left. Cue the Lord's Prayer. My two cents. One for the postcard, one for the stamp, cancelled RPO. 

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Posted by jcburns on Monday, July 6, 2020 7:50 PM

Larry, what do you think is being lost in cities and states run by Democrats?

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