My apologies if this is behind a paywall, but I think this might help inform the conversation about masks:
https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/do-masks-make-it-impossible-to-breathe
thanks was able to read and be greatly relieved thanks
Euclid charlie hebdo 1. People, even the elderly or at risk, are not automatically hospitalized because they test positive. They are admitted when symptoms are becoming serious. 2. New deaths are shown daily. All the data you seem unaware of or how to read are there. Thus most of your conclusions are faulty, either because your origiginated premises are incorrect or your attempt at deductive reasoning is badly flawed. I have said nothing that disputes the data. I have only mentioned questioned trends that are implied by the data and questioned the way the trends are being reported, and the regulatory actions that are based on the data. Maybe you could pick out one thing I said that you feel is wrong, and we could talk about that.
charlie hebdo 1. People, even the elderly or at risk, are not automatically hospitalized because they test positive. They are admitted when symptoms are becoming serious. 2. New deaths are shown daily. All the data you seem unaware of or how to read are there. Thus most of your conclusions are faulty, either because your origiginated premises are incorrect or your attempt at deductive reasoning is badly flawed.
1. People, even the elderly or at risk, are not automatically hospitalized because they test positive. They are admitted when symptoms are becoming serious.
2. New deaths are shown daily. All the data you seem unaware of or how to read are there.
Thus most of your conclusions are faulty, either because your origiginated premises are incorrect or your attempt at deductive reasoning is badly flawed.
I have said nothing that disputes the data. I have only mentioned questioned trends that are implied by the data and questioned the way the trends are being reported, and the regulatory actions that are based on the data. Maybe you could pick out one thing I said that you feel is wrong, and we could talk about that.
The death rate appears to be staying steady *thus far.* Part of that is attributable to the fact that ERs have gained knowledge and improved their ability to treat serious COVID cases. However, it's also the case that deaths lag spikes in infections by a couple of weeks. In any case, improvements in treatments don't signify that we should become complacent about the spread of the virus.
Psychot In any case, improvements in treatments don't signify that we should become complacent about the spread of the virus.
We're all going to catch it eventually - tomorrow, next week, next month, next year...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68We're all going to catch it eventually - tomorrow, next week, next month, next year...
Yeah, next thing you know there'll be this scenario playing out on the streets...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcbR1J_4ICg
Flintlock76 tree68 We're all going to catch it eventually - tomorrow, next week, next month, next year... Yeah, next thing you know there'll be this scenario playing out on the streets... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcbR1J_4ICg
tree68 We're all going to catch it eventually - tomorrow, next week, next month, next year...
Johnny
tree68 Psychot In any case, improvements in treatments don't signify that we should become complacent about the spread of the virus. We're all going to catch it eventually - tomorrow, next week, next month, next year...
Wow.
PsychotWow.
Only three things will stop the virus - a vaccine (none in sight), herd immunity (need around 60% of to be immune), or the virus mutating into something that doesn't make humans sick.
"Stay at home" initially flattened the curve, as was intended. Keeping the curve flattened (or reducing growth to zero) means we have to "stay at home" indefinitely.
Or at least until November 4th.
Unless you have other information.
In the U.S., how many people are currently being tested for covid 19 each day?
How are these people being selected for testing?
EuclidIn the U.S., how many people are currently being tested for covid 19 each day? How are these people being selected for testing?
Figures I have heard is between 400K & 500K per day - at one time a Doctors prescription was requrired - now in most places just the desire to be tested is required (as well as withstanding the waiting line at the site).
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
This information is out there, but because the Administration has chosen not to run an open, coordinated national effort, it has to be patched together from a lot of state agencies, some of which have been told by their governors (Florida, South Dakota) specifically to not release specific information.
People are tested because they're in the hospital or because they've lined up at lots of testing centers scattered across the landscape--they've self selected. For some, it's free (it sure should be). For some, it's not. Some are the nasal swab tests, some are the antibody tests. Complicating things more is that the labs that process these tests are becoming overwhelmed (and when you have to wait several days for results, it doesn't do much good for tracing or treatment.) There are some reports that some of the tests (antibody tests especially) are flawed in their quality control/accuracy.
i sure wish we had some leadership in this crisis that we could trust.
BaltACD Euclid In the U.S., how many people are currently being tested for covid 19 each day? How are these people being selected for testing? Figures I have heard is between 400K & 500K per day - at one time a Doctors prescription was requrired - now in most places just the desire to be tested is required (as well as withstanding the waiting line at the site).
Euclid In the U.S., how many people are currently being tested for covid 19 each day? How are these people being selected for testing?
Okay thanks. So say 500,000 people per day are being tested. In the first week of last March, I understand there were less than 200 test done.
But today when we test 500,000 per day, what reasons do people have for desiring to be tested? I would think that if they feel they have symptoms, they might want to be tested. But if they don't have symptoms, what would be their reason for wanting a test?
As we test 500,000 people today, how many on average have symptoms?
We have a federal system of government.
It's interesting that many of the same people who, in the past, have called the current occupant of the White House a 'dictator' are upset that he is not acting like one.
I wonder what the governors of certain states would be saying on the cable news if the Administration had dictated how they should handle things in their own states?
jcburnsi sure wish we had some leadership in this crisis that we could trust.
Don't you trust your state governor? Is he or she up for reelection in November?
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
I believe there is a pretty big line (like massively huge line - the hugest line!) between providing some kind of actual guidance and dictatorship.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
zugmannI believe there is a pretty big line (like massively huge line - the hugest line!) between providing some kind of actual guidance and dictatorship.
And there are those of us who believe the guidance has been there, regardless of what certain governors and certain cable news outlets believe.
jcburns This information is out there, but because the Administration has chosen not to run an open, coordinated national effort, ..........
York1And there are those of us who believe the guidance has been there, regardless of what certain governors and certain cable news outlets believe.
"Hope it goes away" isnt much guidance.
But hey, nice dig at the cable news outlet. Following the playbook.
Observation - the Fed authorities have been competing with state authorities for all the supplies necessary in combating the virus. Competition for resources when one entity is using them and the other entity is stockpiling them is lunacy of the highest order.
zugmann"Hope it goes away" isnt much guidance.
And I can see from your answer that certain cable news systems are getting their intended message out.
zugmannBut hey, nice dig at the cable news outlet. Following the playbook.
Thanks! I try! By the way, if you ask nicely, I can send you a decoder and the scrambled playbook so you can follow, too!
York1 zugmann "Hope it goes away" isnt much guidance. And I can see from your answer that certain cable news systems are getting their intended message out. zugmann But hey, nice dig at the cable news outlet. Following the playbook. Thanks! I try! By the way, if you ask nicely, I can send you a decoder and the scrambled playbook so you can follow, too!
zugmann "Hope it goes away" isnt much guidance.
zugmann But hey, nice dig at the cable news outlet. Following the playbook.
I think we'll be ok. It's not like either side is using Enigma......
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
SD70DudeI think we'll be ok. It's not like either side is using Enigma......
No, but my neighbor thinks we are reading Russian.
jcburns This information is out there, but because the Administration has chosen not to run an open, coordinated national effort, it has to be patched together from a lot of state agencies, some of which have been told by their governors (Florida, South Dakota) specifically to not release specific information.
Florida has about the best data reporting of any state in the US. The complaint about data derived from the governor wanting consistent data, i.e. not mixing data from current infections (e.g tests using nasal swabs) with results of antibody testing. Note that the median age of new cases in Florida has gone down by several decades over the last couple of months.
One thing to keep in mind about reported case numbers is that they DO NOT give an accurate count of infections, though the increased testing rate has almost certainly reduced the undercount of active infections.
Hospital data is probably a bit better, though there isn't consistent data on whether the admission was due to being hospitalized for COVID-19 versus being admitted for another reason and testing positive. The increase in many states correlates better with protests than re-opening.
The guidance, compared to what CDC did for SARS and Ebola, is an embarrassment. When a global pandemic hits, we need mobilization on our highest level. This administration has pulled out the underpinnings of a VERY well-organized system, apparently just for political reasons. I'm so sad that this is what happens to a once great country.
Florida's governor is HIDING data that exists on nursing homes and assisted living. People who work for the state say they had a good data system developed, but the suppression and censorship came directly from the governor's office.
There's a difference between leadership and dictatorial ranting. Leadership is getting the CDC out there (it's not now, it's muzzled--officially!) Leadership is getting supplies where they need to be, not setting up a system where states compete and also risk random confiscation---what the heck is that? Leadership is getting out there and saying "it's not fun, but the sooner you wear a mask and distance, the sooner we can safely reopen. And here I am, the President, wearing a mask. You should too." Leadership is knowing the pandemic is more important than getting re-elected.
based on all of that, we did not have federal leadership. Shame on him and his supporters.
"The bureaucrats in Washington and Austin"--this is the classic out of touch rhetoric that has been used to disparage government, and now, here we are, enjoying (?) the effects of that stubborn mischaracterization.
We formed these United States because some problems need big top down mobilization and even when it's counterintuitive or even if it requires a tiny bit more selflessness than usual, we need everyone in every Texas county to follow the same guidelines you'd follow if you were in NYC.
we are all human, and this stuff spreads even in tiny counties, and because the testing is so messed up, we really dont know if Brewster County (north of big bend, yeah, I was there last November) has infections or not. And if you're asymptomatic, you can still spread it. And you will.
This is like watching an evening of PMSNBC.
jcburnsThere's a difference between leadership and dictatorial ranting. Leadership is getting the CDC out there (it's not now, it's muzzled--officially!) Leadership is getting supplies where they need to be, not setting up a system where states compete and also risk random confiscation---what the heck is that? Leadership is getting out there and saying "it's not fun, but the sooner you wear a mask and distance, the sooner we can safely reopen. And here I am, the President, wearing a mask. You should too." Leadership is knowing the pandemic is more important than getting re-elected. based on all of that, we did not have federal leadership. Shame on him and his supporters.
Leadership gets the country, all of the country, pulling the in same direction - not pulling itself apart.
Yeah, York1, it's way easier to do namecalling than it is to do empathy and concern for your fellow humans. Although...you could give it a try? Might feel...refreshing!
BaltACDLeadership gets the country, all of the country, pulling the in same direction - not pulling itself apart.
I wondered why 'all of the country' was so unified before 2017. With all that unity, I'm surprised this adminstration won.
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