zugmann tree68 Further clarification: Social planners. Future tyrants. Much easier to control people if they're all in one place...
tree68 Further clarification: Social planners. Future tyrants. Much easier to control people if they're all in one place...
Paul wrote, "Maybe sometime I'll post a thread about grade crossings running through traffic circles - now called 'roundabouts' to differentiate them. "
While not a grade crossing, the picture below is a streetcar line that is in New Orleans at Lee Circle (now without Robert E. Lee's statue!).
Even though the streetcars move fairly slowly, there are still mixups.
I realize this picture doesn't clearly show the tracks.
Streetcars going upriver enter the circle at the top from St. Charles. They travel around and exit at the bottom of the circle.
Streetcars going the other direction enter the circle from the bottom. They travel ¾ of the way around the circle and exit on Howard Ave.
The circle is the split where traffic going upriver is on a two-way street, where after leaving the circle downriver traffic is divided onto one-way streets.
Many tourists who drive St. Charles Ave. get confused when streetcars are running through the circle. I'm confused trying to describe it!
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
York1 Paul wrote, "Maybe sometime I'll post a thread about grade crossings running through traffic circles - now called 'roundabouts' to differentiate them. " While not a grade crossing, the picture below is a streetcar line that is in New Orleans at Lee Circle (now without Robert E. Lee's statue!). Even though the streetcars move fairly slowly, there are still mixups. I realize this picture doesn't clearly show the tracks. Streetcars going upriver enter the circle at the top from St. Charles. They travel around and exit at the bottom of the circle. Streetcars going the other direction enter the circle from the bottom. They travel ¾ of the way around the circle and exit on Howard Ave. The circle is the split where traffic going upriver is on a two-way street, where after leaving the circle downriver traffic is divided onto one-way streets. Many tourists who drive St. Charles Ave. get confused when streetcars are running through the circle. I'm confused trying to describe it!
Johnny
Finished. Done for. Better fiqure out what's next . Not going to happen even if declared 'all clear'. It will be "I might be healthy, but you can't trust that, and you might be healthy, but I can't trust that."
zugmannWe have a couple. They actually work good if morons would stop stopping in them when not needed.
Unfortunately today's drivers aren't trained on how to use them. Well, maybe today's high school kids learn about them in Drivers Ed, but we sure didn't 50 years ago. My father, who grew up in the 40's had to show me what a traffic circle was all about. Depending on the part of the country they used to be pretty common from the 20's through the 40's, and some lasted in New Jersey well into the 70's. There MAY still be some in the less-developed parts of the state but I'm not sure about that.
Back in the day had to spend many a day in BOS . There were circles all over and got to observe how the natives handled them. Came in good stead for many years. Now we have some around here and it gives a chuckle to watch various wrong ways to transit the circles. And yes wrong way is one incident that I've observed.
I think they should just fill the subways with concrete... that way, in a thousand years it'll drive the archeologists nuts trying to figure out what kind of religious sect built an underground web of interconnecting 16 ft. diameter concrete filaments.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Flintlock76 zugmann We have a couple. They actually work good if morons would stop stopping in them when not needed. Unfortunately today's drivers aren't trained on how to use them. Well, maybe today's high school kids learn about them in Drivers Ed, but we sure didn't 50 years ago. My father, who grew up in the 40's had to show me what a traffic circle was all about. Depending on the part of the country they used to be pretty common from the 20's through the 40's, and some lasted in New Jersey well into the 70's. There MAY still be some in the less-developed parts of the state but I'm not sure about that.
zugmann We have a couple. They actually work good if morons would stop stopping in them when not needed.
I believe Wisconsin has more traffic circles than it does covid-19 cases. Near Sheboygan there are 4 all within sight of each other. More elsewhere!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Semper Vaporo-- There was an Issac Asimov short story about beings from another planet that landed on earth. One day they unearthed a STOP sign, the only thing left of civilization by a quirk of fate. The tale was about all the interpretations and meanings of the sign. Their conclusions made perfect sense but not even close to what it was. Hilarious.
BaltACDI believe Wisconsin has more traffic circles than it does covid-19 cases. Near Sheboygan there are 4 all within sight of each other. More elsewhere!
New England - home of the traffic circle.
Some know them as "roundabouts."
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 BaltACD I believe Wisconsin has more traffic circles than it does covid-19 cases. Near Sheboygan there are 4 all within sight of each other. More elsewhere! New England - home of the traffic circle. Some know them as "roundabouts."
BaltACD I believe Wisconsin has more traffic circles than it does covid-19 cases. Near Sheboygan there are 4 all within sight of each other. More elsewhere!
There were some in Connecticut when I was a kid. People there called them "rotaries." There's more traffic cricles now outside of medium-sized Canadian cities like Kitchener and Cambridge than there were ten years ago. There's none in and around Toronto but I guess they'll be coming sooner or later. They are very common in France and Belgium but over there people know how to use them. I drove there last summer (the first time I ever drove in Europe) and had no trouble.
They've been making an appearance in Michigan, as well.
Of course, Michigan already has that phenomenon known as the "Michigan Left." That tends to baffle some people...
tree68 They've been making an appearance in Michigan, as well. Of course, Michigan already has that phenomenon known as the "Michigan Left." That tends to baffle some people...
That's odd, I thought the "Michigan Left" was who controlled the state house.
Sorry folks, I just couldn't resist!
And if some out there can't take a little humor, chill out, OK?
tree68Of course, Michigan already has that phenomenon known as the "Michigan Left." That tends to baffle some people...
I always thought of this as a response to the same issue that produced the New Jersey 'jughandles' (which did not always happen only at T intersections; there were examples at River Edge Rd. off Hackensack Rd northbound and at one of the intersections in the east "Princeton" area from north Rt. 1, I think to Harrison St. WB) Why more jurisdictions didn't use the things where they had room, I don't know. Part of it probably involves lights at any controlled intersection...
For best performance of 'left turn' it is hard to beat a seagull intersection, again if you have the room. This can completely get rid of the need for lights on one-half a nominally-divided roadway ... if you can tamper a bit with which lanes are divided from others. This is the 'other half' of the solution I've been promoting for traffic up and down Farm Road in Shelby Farms Park in the eastern Memphis area, where development has vastly increased traffic count but 'don't split Shelby Farms' is a further watchword for the folks who successfully blocked a real I-40.
The problem with Michigan Lefts is that they require substantial formal acceleration lanes ... but usually don't get them. The exposure to high-speed 'passing lane' traffic is greatly magnified if there is any kind of 'failure to yield', and the arrangement requires acceleration not just sufficient to 'clear' the fast lane (as, albeit often heart-stoppingly, in a normal left turn) but to accelerate all the way up to a full transition and merge across the fast lane, then quick merge across other potentially traffic-bearing lanes, while decelerating back to safe turning speed.
For those not familiar with the "Michigan left", find Highland, MI on your favorite map program and follow M59 west. You'll see plenty of examples.
One advantage to the concept is that it doesn't leave traffic backed up across one set of lanes. While there may not be sufficient acceleration space, there's usually enough space in a turn lane before the "U" for said backup.
The rail line just to the east of the Milford Road / M59 intersection is the former CSX "Saginaw Sub" (nee Chessie, nee C&O, nee Pere Marquette).
And if anyone cares, I used to live at N 42.63417 W 83.70535 on M59. The house is long gone, and our landlord's house was moved far back from the highway when they increased the road from two lanes to four.
We have something like those "Michigan lefts" here used with making left turns onto other roads; after you turn left off one road, you wait at a traffic light to turn left on the other road. It can be a long wait.
I'm glad I do not drive any more.
New England - home of the traffic circle. Some know them as "roundabouts." In Boston they are known as "rotaries".
There's a famous song about Roundabouts, but darned if I know any songs about rotaries.
My first experience with a rotary was the one on Route 2 & 2A in Concord Mass and smaller versions are becoming quite common here in San Diego county.
York1, thanks for sharing the photo and explanation. Didn't know about that one. I was only in New Orleans once about 51 years ago, right after Hurricane Camille. Rode the St. Charles line a couple times, but in the other direction, I think.
- PDN.
A traffic circle near my daughter's house has issues during rush hour. Large numbers of cars going north enter the circle from the south and exit north half-way around.
Cars coming from the east heading west have almost no chance to get into the circle. You can sit for several minutes before being able to enter the steady stream of cars. After rush hour, the circle works fairly well.
My observation has been that a traffic circle works better with limited "spokes" and a larger diameter. I've ridden in cabs in the Dominican Republic that went through large diameter traffic circles (near Punta Cana) in which I did not fear for my life.
Around here they are working toward just sticking a flower pot in the middle of an existing intersection and calling it a round-a-bout.
Semper VaporoAround here they are working toward just sticking a flowre pot in the middle of an existing intersection and calling it a round-a-bout.
They basically did that here when the city took over a commonly used portion of a parking lot and turned it into a city street. The spot where two existing streets and the new one intersect with a rear access road for the shopping center now has a small circle. In fact, they had to construct it so large trucks could also get through. It's not very busy, though, just saves a full stop if no other traffic is in sight.
We do have another spot that could be referred functionally to as a circle/rotary/roundabout, although it's about two blocks long by half a block wide. Known as Public Square, it's been here for many years (going back to the horse-drawn era) with several "formats," and these days includes traffic lights (which traffic circles don't have). Still, traffic moves around it counter-clockwise with a number of entry/exit points.
They've done "test roundabounts" around here where they basically have a pentagram of cones or barrels in the middle of an intersection. No signage, no lane markings - then they wonder why people aren't following it correctly.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Semper Vaporo Around here they are working toward just sticking a flowre pot in the middle of an existing intersection and calling it a round-a-bout.
Around here they are working toward just sticking a flowre pot in the middle of an existing intersection and calling it a round-a-bout.
See what happens if a big truck tries to get around it.
MidlandMike Semper Vaporo Around here they are working toward just sticking a flowre pot in the middle of an existing intersection and calling it a round-a-bout. See what happens if a big truck tries to get around it.
If he is going straight, no problem. If he is turning right he might have to pull to the left, and might hit it if he pulls to far to the left, but if turning right... hmmmm... well make it a short flower pot and his tractor can go on one side and the trailer wheels can pass on the other side... maybe?
The small circle I mentioned has the road around the outside, a paved area inside of that, then a small island. The idea is that cars and other smaller vehicles stay on the road portion, and larger vehicles can use the inner paved area. I've seen other small traffic circles like that.
Tell them to quit putting so much mayo on their sandwiches .
Roundabouts cause more accidents, but fewer deaths and injuries. They are part of the regulatory fashion known as "traffic calming." They also promote traffic fairness. It is unfair to give a high speed road the right of way over lower speed roads. So they must take turns. They are similar to a living wage.
https://www.citylab.com/design/2017/03/the-other-side-of-roundabouts-more-crashes/518484/
Euclid Roundabouts cause more accidents, but fewer deaths and injuries. They are part of the regulatory fashion known as "traffic calming." They also promote traffic fairness. It is unfair to give a high speed road the right of way over lower speed roads. So they must take turns. They are similar to a living wage. https://www.citylab.com/design/2017/03/the-other-side-of-roundabouts-more-crashes/518484/
From your source:
"Burdett and crew focused on crashes involving single vehicles—such as when somebody suddenly careens off the shoulder—which have an oddly high occurrence at roundabouts. Between 30 to 50 percent of accidents at single-lane roundabouts around the U.S. have involved lone vehicles. "
They're cherry pikcing one type of wreck and damning the whole concept. I don't think it's a fair report.
Your comment about a living wage has nothing to do with anything, except I guess you didn't want to waste your soapbox?
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