Athearn Blue Box Locomotive Production

[AntonioFP45]

Hey friends,

Hope you don't mind but I'm just thinking "out loud" how times change. For those of you that are not aware, Athearn is not producing the FP45, F45, and the U33B "Blue Box" locomotives currently. BTW----this is not an Anti- Athearn thread. Recently I was quite surprised when a fellow modeler I've known a few years jokingly "sneered" at me over the phone saying "Aw come on! Why would you want "those things"? [oX)]The color's off, the U-Boat's hood is too wide..Decals are too slanted, Blah-Blah, Yada-Yada-Yada"....What a tirade! [:0][B)][:0][:(!] I would have never expected this from him. My mouth hung open, but I kept my cool. [8D][:-^]

HIndsight: I should have said to this guy, who's 38 years old, "Dude, You need to remember where we came from and what it was like when we were the young modelers that couldn't even afford the Blue Boxes and dreamed of owning them!!"

From the 70s to the early 90s, these units he was "ripping on" were "The Bomb!" There are literally "Hundreds" of pictures in MRR and RMC magazines of the past showing these and other Blue Box Athearn locomotives beautifully modifed mechanically and detail wise! The 1998 Walther's Catalog has several pages in the "photo" section showing modelers running sleek Santa Fe FP45s pulling hot shot freights!

Today, sad to say, many modelers that are even my age are quite spoiled! I've stated before that I won't buy any more Athearns except for some specific ones-------the units mentioned above which, of course, are no longer being made! I've had to eat humble pie!

Just felt it was noteworthy because while I've been buying P2K locomotives, Athearn is still the only manufacturer that makes "Decent" versions of the locomotives I mentioned and I found myself wanting these units for the layout that I will be building. These particular Athearns were popular for a long time, but with the emergence of the "Competition" against the Blue Boxes, it's understandable if Athearn felt it had to cut back on production if certain units are no longer "hot or steady sellers".

I've been blessed in that I've gotten several Santa Fe FP45s and one SCL U-Boat on Ebay in New or Slightly used condition. I hope that eventually Athearn upgrades these to "Genesis or RTR" standards. Fair bet they would sell. While the new generation locomotives are exciting, it would be good for our younger modelers to have examples of units that guys and gals my age grew up with!

Cheers with an E7 in Run 8!

[Big_Boy_4005]

Antonio, it's been a long time since I've paid real close attention to Athearn. I used to work in hobby stores many years ago, and back then I was very up on how they operated because it was part of my job. What I noticed was that products came out in spurts. It was like you couldn't get a caboose to save your life, they ware on backorder forever. Then suddenly 10 cases would show up. Locomotives were just as fickel.

Part of that had to do with the production schedule. They only have so many molds and so many machines to run them on. Then there was painting to schedule too. It's got to be a real juggling act to produce everything, when you have so many different items in the catalog.

Unless the molds are absolutely worn out, which can happen, it is very likely that the engines in question will come back sometime in the future.

This is a time of transition. First the buy out by Horizon, then the movement of production, then the consolidation with the Roundhouse line, and possible distribution changes. That's a lot to digest!!! Things will settle down, and when they do, I suspect you will see all of the great products that Athearn has become famous for, and probably many new ones as well, over time of course.

Keep in mind that new prototypes come out, and new molds are made, some things may have to be dropped to make room in the production schedule. The model business can be kind of strange that way, because the real ones have been scrapped, modelers like to model all different time periods. Some things never die.[swg]

[Don Gibson]

Uncle Irv kept prices low in the hobby for years.

He went to Generic plastic moulds painted in indifferent schemes: If you wanted a AT&SF caboose in C&O paint he had it. He pioneered the rubber band drive, modified product dimensions to standardized on parts (one part fits all), and dominated the 'toy train' HO market for decades because of low prices. Hooray!

He also rarely had R.O.I., slept in his office many night's, continually painted his stuff in violation of EPI, and saved money by not booking in trade shows. What a Guy!

I (like everyone else) bought his products because he was a major factor in the HO market, but to me he was not a major hero. To me, a major hero is someone like Intermountain, that upgraded the hobby and raised the bar for others, with superior rolling, detail, and paint jobs - and yes, also breaking the price barrier.

Do I buy all $30 cars now? No. But they let me know what I was missing.
Athearn cars are still readily available at 'Swap Meet's for $1 -$5.

[BRAKIE]

Athearn develop a drive in that is still in use today by every major manufacturer.
Even though this drive has been improved by other companies including Kato.Of course Athearn bashers will never admit todays smooth running drives design was first design and made by Athearn..The old Atlas locomotives didn't look any better then Athearn's.Life Like was a toy.What's a Kato? A Japanese company that made trains for their domestic market.
No athearn hasn't done anything to help the hobby along in the days of wooden and metal car kits..Atlas made track and imported N scale.Brass diesel locomotives was worst then Athearn locomotives.You want coffee grinders? Buy the old brass of the 50s and 60s.Funny how many claim to be long time hobbyist forget things wasn't anything like today..Old timers disease I suppose?? Faded memories?? Or wasn't around in the bad old days even though they claimed to have been?
Guys,let me tell you straight up..We are spoiled rotten today.How many of todays hot shot modelers can build a Penn-Line,Hobbytown of Boston or Varney locomotive kit?? Shoot,some stumble,trip and fall building a simple Athearn car kit..Some whiners apparently can't even add a simple aftermarket detail part or else they wouldn't waste time whining about a locomotive missing a simple detail part on some forum and then dare call their selves modelers and self proclaim experts and look down on others.[}:)]
No,the old days was harsh,lean and mean.You had to have many skills from soldering to rebuilding and building drives just to have a decent running engine.Of course Athearn develop a new drive that was at that time consider to be one of the best made-next to Hobbytown of Boston-which of course you had to build from a kit.Now,surprisingly brass steamers ran far better then brass diesels.[:0] Now,if you wanted a particular locomotive and couldn't afford brass then you built that engine out of brass stock or in some cases tin stock..BTW even the old AHM steam locomotives wasn't to bad for their time.Some old and highly skilled craftsman of that day repowered them after the motor burn out.
Enough about the bad old days.[;)] Thank goodness those days are long gone.[:D]
About the Athearn pollution? Far less then major industries of that era.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Athearn develop a drive in that is still in use today by every major manufacturer.

LifeLike Proto1K (orig. P2K's), - and who else?

[BRAKIE]

Atlas,Atlas/Kato,Kato and most other major brands base their drives on the Athearn drive..But,like I said with improvements..This was mention in the MR locomotive roundup article...Also compare drives and you will see the same basic design.Nothing new here Don..Just takes close observation of the design of the drives..

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

Athearn develop a drive in that is still in use today by every major manufacturer.
Even though this drive has been improved by other companies including Kato.Of course Athearn bashers will never admit todays smooth running drives design was first design and made by Athearn..The old Atlas locomotives didn't look any better then Athearn's.Life Like was a toy.What's a Kato? A Japanese company that made trains for their domestic market.
No athearn hasn't done anything to help the hobby along in the days of wooden and metal car kits..Atlas made track and imported N scale.Brass diesel locomotives was worst then Athearn locomotives.You want coffee grinders? Buy the old brass of the 50s and 60s.Funny how many claim to be long time hobbyist forget things wasn't anything like today..Old timers disease I suppose?? Faded memories?? Or wasn't around in the bad old days even though they claimed to have been?
Guys,let me tell you straight up..We are spoiled rotten today.How many of todays hot shot modelers can build a Penn-Line,Hobbytown of Boston or Varney locomotive kit?? Shoot,some stumble,trip and fall building a simple Athearn car kit..Some whiners apparently can't even add a simple aftermarket detail part or else they wouldn't waste time whining about a locomotive missing a simple detail part on some forum and then dare call their selves modelers and self proclaim experts and look down on others.[}:)]
No,the old days was harsh,lean and mean.You had to have many skills from soldering to rebuilding and building drives just to have a decent running engine.Of course Athearn develop a new drive that was at that time consider to be one of the best made-next to Hobbytown of Boston-which of course you had to build from a kit.Now,surprisingly brass steamers ran far better then brass diesels.[:0] Now,if you wanted a particular locomotive and couldn't afford brass then you built that engine out of brass stock or in some cases tin stock..BTW even the old AHM steam locomotives wasn't to bad for their time.Some old and highly skilled craftsman of that day repowered them after the motor burn out.
Enough about the bad old days.[;)] Thank goodness those days are long gone.[:D]
About the Athearn pollution? Far less then major industries of that era.

My sentiments exactly. The scary thing is, that between Horizon and Union Pacific, people who know how to put the kits together from the good old days are going to quite valuble as we will have to teach the rest of our shrinking patronage the ways of building a cast metal Bowser Kit.

If we know whats good for up, we will whoard all the spare parts we can, while they are still pletiful and the supply can be replenished. Who knows, Bush just may blow the world up yet and we will need our stockpiles anyway.

James

[AltonFan]

QUOTE: ...Athearn is not producing the FP45, F45, and the U33B "Blue Box" locomotives currently.

Did Athearn announce these were being discontinued, or are they simply waiting for when the next "batch" is to be produced.

Someone told me Athearn has tightened up their production numbers so as not to create large amounts of overstock for the deep-discount houses.

QUOTE: Athearn develop a drive in that is still in use today by every major manufacturer.
Even though this drive has been improved by other companies including Kato.

I never feared to disassemble, clean and reassemble an Athearn mechanism. (One may fairly ask why such activities were needed on a new mechanism, but that's another story.) I am extremely leery of even looking under the shell of a Kato. (But the Katos I look at are N scale.)

QUOTE: He also rarely had R.O.I., slept in his office many night's, continually painted his stuff in violation of EPI, and saved money by not booking in trade shows. What a Guy!

Don, would you be kind enough to explain the boldened abbreviations? Thanks.

[AntonioFP45]

Wow!

I didn't think that this was going to stir up the bucket. Good responses though. [swg]

I was just lamenting that the locomotives that I mentioned are currently not being produced and wondered if other modelers here were in the same boat as me in which there were specific Athearns they wanted that at one time were plentiful, and now are hard to find.......unless you go to swap meets or Ebay.[8)]

And of course, as soon as you buy one of these Athearn BlueBox units, it immedietely requires "tweaking" to get them ready for DCC. And if you plan on installing sound, you have to perform even more "tweaking" to quiet that "growl". But this is a part of the hobby, anyway and does provide the opportunity to advance model working skills.[;)][:p]

Big_Boy_4005, thanks for the info about model production being in "spurts". That did happen back then, but the times between the "spurts" were shorter. It's understandable though that with today's hard charging competition Athearn's focus is primarily in it's RTR and Genesis lines. After looking at shots of that new SD45T-2, looks like Athearn is "Raising the Bar" as Don Gibson mentions about IM. If most of you don't consider this as raising the bar, at least Athearn is making a hard effort and succeeding at keeping up. [8D]
Cheers!

[BRAKIE]

Dan,Never fear..The N scale drives is also base on the old Athearn HO drive.Same basic design...Listen my friend if you can work on a Athearn drive then you can work on any drive because of that basic design..
I truly don't think Uncle Irv knew what he had in that drive when it was first design nor it would revolve into todays quality drives made by other manufacturers base on that very simple design.

[AltonFan]

QUOTE: I was just lamenting that the locomotives that I mentioned are currently not being produced and wondered if other modelers here were in the same boat as me in which there were specific Athearns they wanted that at one time were plentiful, and now are hard to find.......unless you go to swap meets or Ebay.

If I had a nickel for every item (and not just in model railroading) that was once plentiful and cheap, but is now rare, and if found, expensive, I'd be running the Chicago and... er, I mean Union Pacific from a skyscraper in downtown Chicago!

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: If I had a nickel for every item (and not just in model railroading) that was once plentiful and cheap, but is now rare, and if found, expensive, I'd be running the Chicago and... er, I mean Union Pacific from a skyscraper in downtown Chicago!

I'm with you Alton! However, on the positive side of this situation I got the units I wanted off of Ebay for some very reasonable prices. I recently won an Athearn SCL U33B "New in the box" for $26 (plus $5 for shipping). No complaints from me! [:D][8D]

The four FP45s I've also gotten from Ebay, except for one, averaged $30+ dollars. All I wanted were two, but in a case where I was bidding on one unit, the seller threw in a free new Santa Fe FP45 shell! Total price: $32! [;)]

I'm particularly excited about the "Cowl" units as they have plenty of room for the installation of DCC sound. I will be spending money on Mashima motors and NWSL wheels in addition to the DCC equipment, but for my enjoyment, I don't mind paying the extra for "doing it right". [:)][:D][8D][8)]

Take care! Cheers!

[Anonymous]

Ever since Athearn acquired Rail Power Products I have been waiting to see how long it will take for some of the Blue Box engine to cease to exist. Especially the "wide bodies". RPP made some great looking scale width shells in its day, and in greater variety than Athearn did.
It would be nice if this turned out to be the dawn of a rejuvinated Athearn Blue box line, with improved and correct shells. The new Athearn CF-7 is a prime example of what IS possible!

[Anonymous]

Well, maybe if Athearn won't produce them, maybe BLI will. Imagine, FP45s with sound![:)]

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

Well, maybe if Athearn won't produce them, maybe BLI will. Imagine, FP45s with sound![:)]

That would be cool, guy but the only catch might be (which many modelers could live with ) is that it would likely have the wrong "horn sound" as BLI does the "one horn" fits the entire model line.

I'd rather go the "Soundtraxx" route. Wi***hey'd hurry up with the Tsunami decoder!

[Anonymous]

As far as cheap goes, I just got an Athearn Baldwin S12 for $15, an Athearn U33C for $23, an Athearn U30B for $17, all Santa Fe, and an Athearn U28B Norfolk and Western for $14, all from the same company (all new) plus $6 shipping. Thats $75 for 4 Athearn engines delivered. They may not be as great as Atlas or P2K, but well worth the money.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kbfcsme

Ever since Athearn acquired Rail Power Products I have been waiting to see how long it will take for some of the Blue Box engine to cease to exist. Especially the "wide bodies". RPP made some great looking scale width shells in its day, and in greater variety than Athearn did.
It would be nice if this turned out to be the dawn of a rejuvinated Athearn Blue box line, with improved and correct shells. The new Athearn CF-7 is a prime example of what IS possible!

I was talking with the owner of A-Line/PPW not too long ago. When Athearn acquired RPP he bought pretty much the remaining stock of shells and is selling them from his website. They were interested in the molds which are probably in China after a bit of re-tooling. Already we've seen the CF7 (as you pointed out, and with updated fans from the original RPP shell) and GP60 from the RPP lines and now a GP35. There stands to reason that more maybe in the works. Just pick from the RPP line...C30-7, SD40, and hopefully...a GP40X. That one would be great, as it apparently has a fairly big appeal. A-Line is out of the shells and when there's one on EBay, it fetches a premium.

It is fairly common knowledge here that I am a big Athearn fan. Most of my loco roster is Blue Box, though I have detailed, painted and remotored a few of them. I look at them as raw material to work with, because I gain a great deal of my hobby enjoyment from building the model. Plus on my budget, if I'm going to pay $80-100 for a "RTR" loco, I don't want to have to do a thing.

[ericsp]

I looks like Athearn is producing F7s currently. They told me that they will be producing GP7s (formerly mislabeled GP9) in the fall. No SD40T-2s scheduled as of now.

[Anonymous]

Courious but true - no joke !!!!!!!!!!!

I asked Athearn via mail about the Blue Boxes - I asked in the first line for cars - last week and got an answer one day later.

This is a brandnew official Athearn answer about the Blue Boxes:

Thank-you for taking the time to send in your inquiry regarding our regular "Blue Box" product line. Please note that we have no intentions to discontinue producing our regular line "Blue Box" items. We continue to produce these items on a daily basis here at our plant and will continue to do so as long there is a sufficient demand for those products. Please also note that we cannot produce all of the products that we catalog all of the time so we "batch produce" our products. Consequently all of our products are not always readily available.

[Anonymous]

huh.... interesting response from athearn.... nothing we didnt already know.... but its alwasy reassureing to see them say the blue boxes will still be around.

and as long as they are around i will keep on buying them. i love athearns kits. they are like half the locomotives i have and like 60% to 70% of the rolling stock i have. (the rest being mostaly roundhouse). their engines are the niceset to work on ever. they are so simple yet work so well. once you know how an athearn gose together you can figure out jsut about anything else, cuase they are all basitly copys of athearns. mind there are some changes in say an atlas or a kato, when you break it down they all fallow the athearn design.

someone earlyer was saying that they would love to see better blue box kits i.e. railpower shells, and no more fatsos... i think this would be awesome. the fatsos bug me a bit but i can handel them, but i would always love to see some of their clasics with scale width hoods =)

im kinda going all over the place here.... geuss im jsut reminicing too =P
well take care all.

[BRAKIE]

Of all my locomotives my two favorites is a old Athearn GP7 I got back in 1975 and a SW1500 I got about 8 years ago..When I first bought these units I tweak the drives to my standards.Both units are well worn and very smooth runners.[:D] Frankly,I hope my Atlas,Atlas/Katos,my 4 Katos,My P2K's are around as long as that old geep been.[:D]
Guys,I am happy that Athearn will continue to produce the Blue Box line..There are many modelers out there that models on a budget like I use to when I had a family to raise,house to paid for and the many other bills,costs of raising a family,college for the kids-well you guys know the song and dance...
Not to brag..Today I count myself Lucky that I can afford the high dollar models-not that I pay full price mind you,even me being a bachelor I can't afford the full MSRP...However,I will not forget the company that kept me in the hobby -Athearn ..I will continue to buy their products both the BBs,RTR and some Genesis.[:D]

[AntonioFP45]

Regarding the HO Athearns being to wide.

On the Athearn EMD hood units YES, this has always been very noticeable. [8)]

However, on the Athearn GE U-33 the discrepancy is not as pronounced especially since in the prototype the rear 1/3 of the U-Boat's hood section (where the "wings are) is wider than the narrow prototype EMD hoods which are the same width from the cab to the rear platform. [:)][:D]

This is why I indicate that this factor makes the width of the "middle section" less noticeable on the Athearn GEs. [;)] The benefit of this is that compared to an Atlas or other "high end" GE models there is more room to accommodate DCC / Sound components. [4:-)][tup]

As I've suggested before on another post, installing "See Thru" grills on Athearn U-Boats really make them stand out. Thanks to trackster, I'll be getting some of the GE grills from Overland Models. [:)][:D][8D][:p][;)][8)]

Cheers with an E7 in Run 8!

[Don Gibson]

Don, would you be kind enough to explain the boldened abbreviations? Thanks.

QUOTE: He also rarely had R.O.I., slept in his office many night's, continually painted his stuff in violation of EPI, and saved money by not booking in trade shows.

Altonfan; ROI = "Return On Investment". Irv was reputed to not keep itemized track of such things.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

Atlas,Atlas/Kato,Kato and most other major brands base their drives on the Athearn drive..But,like I said with improvements..This was mention in the MR locomotive roundup article...Also compare drives and you will see the same basic design.Nothing new here Don..Just takes close observation of the design of the drives..

PRETTY BROAD STROKES here, Larry. I'm glad it "just takes close observation". One only has to start with the differnce in electrical pickup from the axles (inside wheel vs. outside) to find differences. Note I said "start ". Close observation isn't even necessary.

2, If "Atlas,Atlas/Kato,Kato and most other brands base their drives on" Athearn, how come they all run better?

start smoother
use less current
run at more realistic speeds.

3. IF your criterea is simply that all have motors, worm gears, and wheels, There wouldn't be any argument . Flywheels? Was Athearn the first?

4. ALL brands have added 'improvements' over time. I recall 4 different Athearn chassis': Direct gear - rubber band - metal side frame pickup - inside bearing pickup. Which did you have in mind?

[Anonymous]

Don:

Atlas and Kato both use the same basic design as Athearn. They have refined the design further than Athearn has on the Blue Box units. But it's still the same basic flywheel-equipped motor to worm gear on a gear tower drive and a heavy frame(As opposed to the other designs, most notably the 'Power Truck' which work fine in larger scales but not in HO or smaller). The biggest advantage the Kato-style drive has is simply better quality production, with higher quality motors and better tolerances than the Blue Box units, not any real design difference. Of course, the heavier frames do help too.

[BRAKIE]

Don,I First I am not going to get into a needless argument .with you.You should know what I am talking Its the same basic design with improvements..Peroid end of subject!!!
No Athearn was not the first to use a flywheel drive..Hobbytown of Boston was.This flywheel could be seen in the cab of the RS3 and Athearn GP7 repowerng drive...Yes,Don Hobbytown of Boston made a gear drive with flywheel for the old Athearn Hi Fi Drive.
http://bearlocomo.zoovy.com/product/K049

[dharmon]

Well that's just great........the thread started to go downhill too fast and now we have overheated brake (ies).......[;)]

[Don Gibson]

MOST current engines share common design areas in a General sense. Who came first (The 'Chicken or the egg)' come to mind. Uncle Irv, contributed some - and borowed some.

My memory serves: Athearns biggest contributions were dual (fore and aft) motor shafts (rubber band drive), 8 wheel split chassis pickup, and doing it cheaper than everyone else.
Hobbytown used tower gears with single ended motors when Athearn was building Rubber Band Drives.
KMT (Kumata Japan) coupled the Hobbytown tower gears to a dual motor shaft on all their brass exports .
Atlas imported the first KATO drive (85?) which had 4 U joints, worm gears, improved towers, outside wheel electrical pickup, and flywheels --all of which Atlas / Kato / Stewart / and Athearn Genesis now use.

Not trusting my memory, I pulled out an early Atlas/Kato combination of the late 80's(?), and earlier version of Athearn's PA, and a current version of a Genesis - to compare. I also have 2 old Hobbytowns (no flywheels).

it seems to me that Athearn incorporated some other people's design into their product. Certainly Athearn's 8 wheel pickup is a major contribution, but Athearn also compromised on many things others did not: Iron wheels, body dimensions, and quality control. That seems to be the things some 'Athearn bashers' pick on. on the other hand, Athearn has always appealed to those who wanted bargain pricing and simple assembly - sorta' like having a 'girl friend' that's cheap, and easy. What's not to like?

I have wonder if all those to who Athearn is 'Heroic' will still be there, when Blue boxes sell for $5 less than the RTR?

[CP5415]

Without Athearn's BB stuff, where will newcomers to the hobby get a decent set for a decent price?
Life-Like & Bachman sets are the same cheap sets that they've had since the 70's & probably older.
Even with my recent purchases of Proto locomotives, I still check out what Athearn's has coming out.
I'll always choose BB stuff over anything else unless I can't get it in BB.

Gordon

[Anonymous]

I have to say that I was mad at Athearn for awhile after my SD70 escapade.Never saw a locomotive that was so hard to disassemble.And trying to install DCC with all those little bulbs,resistors and wires.I am an HVAC tech by trade and see alot of electronics and that Genesis circuitry is a nightmare.Then that SD50 came out.What a beautiful piece of machinery!That one is the best Athearn yet.Still has the dependable motor.The engineering on that circuit board is beautiful,something that Athearn should have released on the initial run of Genesis.If they keep building them like that SD50,theyll have a customer for life here.I still prefer thier rolling stock kits over the RTR.I dont like the wheels they are using or the EZ breaks.So I hope they will keep the kits alive.Now if I could find a CSX SD40-2 with the newer drive.Dan