Athearn Blue Box Locomotive Production

[Anonymous]

I have an aging Conrail GP7.It was from a fictional road called minnesota Terminal(a company that was owned by PC).It has a steam boiler,dynamic brakes,and a winteriszation hatch(I wish athearn would have holes for the winterization hatch on the soo line,canadian pacific,and milwaukee road SD40-2s!!!And a Winterization hatch would come with those three kits.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

We are spoiled rotten today.How many of todays hot shot modelers can build a Penn-Line,Hobbytown of Boston or Varney locomotive kit??

Hey Brakie I'm building a Hobbytown of Boston chassis for a GP50 right now! I'm also going to post my progress with the loco on the forum too.

C'ya
Heartland Flyer

[Don Gibson]

Tampico Tony:

I have been puzzling over this one

QUOTE: ...but it's the same with all of the Athearns I have

.

The 'Momentum circuit is an electronic delay that independantly turns the throttle down at a controlled rate.
The ONLY explanation i can offer on WHY Athearns (with relatively hungry current consuption) would "roll further' than the competition, might be the 'gearing' all Athearn's have.
Since they 'run faster' than most, they would also cover more ground in a given time frame - such as 8 seconds.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Hey Don, guys:

My Milwaukee Road SD9 (purchased in 1979) will just keep going on "MOMENTUM" for quite a ways after you turn the powerpack's knob from 3/4 to ZERO.
I thought it was a fluke first, but it's the same with all of the Athearns I have. Is there a difference in current or voltage draw with the older motors?
Thanks!

Yes. Most older motor's pulled more current. They were designed to run with then rheostat operated DC power Paks with 'slo-blow' circuit breakers. I have a old Hobbytown with 2.5 amp motorand multi drives. Today's 'Can' motors are better suited to today's Solid State electronics with their 'hair-trigger ' action to keep transistors from blowing.

I cannot explain why an old motor would coast further on 'momentum' since it's a capacitor driven circuit, but no matter the electronics, most rolling qualities are tied directly to the mechanism's friction. Your SD-9 must be well broken in.

[BRAKIE]

Paul3,-Never mind..Tain't worth fussing over..[:0][:D]

[Paul3]

railman wrote:

QUOTE: SO WHAT if a engine/boxcar/caboose/etc. is painted in a railroad that didn't really have it? Does it make you lose sleep at night? I didn't think so. But if some kid likes that boxcar behind that locomotive, more power to him.

"SO WHAT"? I have a problem with that "slap any ol' paint scheme on it" attitude. When I was a lad, just getting into the hobby, I didn't know jack about much, but I knew I liked the New Haven Railroad. I bought a A-B-B-A set of Athearn F7's, a bay window caboose from Athearn and a E60F from Walthers, all painted in NH. I almost bought an Athearn NH SDP40, but I didn't have the money. I also managed to acquire 6 or 7 Athearn NH stainless steel passenger cars.

Now, of course, the NH had none of the above. And what they had that was close, Athearn painted so poorly as to defy description.

What does that mean? Well, when I got further into hobby, and wanted to be more realistic, I discovered that the $150-odd bucks that I had in cars and motive power was completely useless. This is not good. Especially for a kid under the age of 18.

So, yeah, I'm rather annoyed when manufacturers try to pawn off make-believe junk onto unsuspecting consumers. For example, IHC does NH C-415's, C-628's, 4-4-0 camel backs, and other little "gems". Just terrible stuff that I somehow managed to avoid, more because of dumb luck than anything else.

AntonioFP45 wrote:

QUOTE: Basically there is less friction between brass contacting brass then there is with Nickel Silver on Nickel Silver.

Actually, you have that backwards. Brass on brass has more (not less) friction than NS on NS. Also, sintered wheels have more friction than NS, which is another reason why Athearn uses them.

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

AntonioFP45,If you want some real Athearn pullers try the units with brass wheels on brass track..These units can and will out pull the newer units.You see brass wheels grips the rail better then NS wheels on NS track..
Relax Don,I am not promoting brass wheels or brass track but stating a well known fact from the old days.[:D]

O.K Brakie, I see what you're pointing to . Basically there is less friction between brass contacting brass then there is with Nickel Silver on Nickel Silver. It does make sense as in the past I used to lay down mostly brass track and run a train around the Christmas tree. Those older Athearns would pull anything I put behind them, even dragging other locomotives that didn't respond quickly enough! [;)][:p]
Thanks! High Greens!

[BRAKIE]

AntonioFP45,If you want some real Athearn pullers try the units with brass wheels on brass track..These units can and will out pull the newer units.You see brass wheels grips the rail better then NS wheels on NS track..
Relax Don,I am not promoting brass wheels or brass track but stating a well known fact from the old days.[:D]

[AntonioFP45]

Thanks Don,

Looks like when it comes to DCC application, the old motors are definetly "juice hogs"! Sound decoders would say "YIPES!" I do plan on replacing all of my Athearn motors with the low current Mashimas.

Just wish P2K trucks and worms were interchangeable with Athearns as they are inheriently quieter. Even with the "tweaking" there's still some growl. But overall, I can't complain as these Athearns are like the old military jeeps. They can take a lot of punishment and continue to run for years to come.

[Don Gibson]

Antonito:
Athearn has had 3 (or more) motors over the years - depending on WHEN thay made the engineering change (ser. No#). and when it was bought.

Their Old Motor used to pull 1 amp with 2 amps to start.I belive it was rounded.
They replaced that with a .75 amp motor and 1.5 amps to start. I believe it was silverish.
The current motor is .5 amps and up to 1 amp starting; and pale gold in color.

The models using metal-sideframes for pickup could have been either of the last two. I don't believe there was any change in gearing. If MUing, it is highly desirable to use matching units with matching motors. Consider replacing one, or both.

I've replaced most of mine with Mashima's. and JayBee wheels. BIG improvement.!

[railman]

There's a lot of two cent's worth getting thrown in here, and here's my nickel for the jukebox; (that intro gives me time to get up on the soapbox)

Ease up on athearn. They were (still are, I guess) one of the companies that still appeal to what gets new people in the door of the hobby- inexpensive, well running units. SO WHAT if a engine/boxcar/caboose/etc. is painted in a railroad that didn't really have it? Does it make you lose sleep at night? I didn't think so. But if some kid likes that boxcar behind that locomotive, more power to him.

And is prototype modeling safe? Yes. And when (and if) they want, they can move up to P2K locomotives and the like, but nobody starts out buying brass engines for specific lines in an specific. Nobody I know, anyway. It's the loop under the tree, becomes the 4 by 8, becomes the 5 by 10, slowly takes over the basement, you get the idea.

I'm not going to say that Athearn is starter equipment. Because it isn't . It's solidly desiged stuff that makes it easy for beginners to move past train sets and into "real modeling."
And yes, other companies have "raised the bar" of the hobby, and that's great. But if you pay $200 dollars for anything, it better be painted right, have DCC, an engineer that talks back ,AND pours my cup of coffee in the morning. (Okay, maybe not the coffee.)

If you gripe about the tough part of putting in DCC or sound on these units- remember something said many times on these threads- the design is simple, sturdy, but old. It's like dropping a modern engine onto a Model A- it's going to take more than duct tape and a couple hours to do the job right and put a 21st century system into a 20th century mechanism.

Blue Box is what it is. Don't compare it to hundred-dollar units and the like- that's cadillac to chevy, apples to oranges. Find another in the same price range and it's pretty much in a league of it's own. As long as I'm the hobby, blue will have a home on my railroad.

In respect to where this all started from, I own a FP-45 in Milwaukee livery, and a similar dummy unit. Holds down commuter duty on my passenger timetable, along side F7A-B sets, GP-40's, even an old Trainmaster and S-12 hanging around. All Blue Box. Took 6 months to get the S-12, it was out of cycle when I had ordered it from the local hobbyshop. (years ago.)

[AntonioFP45]

Hey Don, guys

As long as we're on drives I'd like to ask you something:

I've been working on my BlueBox Athearn locomotives. I have some that I purchased in the late 1970s (with the metal truck sideframes and steel flywheels). I also have the latest BlueBox Athearns with the brass flywheels and plastic side frames. When tested on track, the old BB Athearns will actually OUTRUN and out pull the newer BB units!

And the momentum: Believe it or not, just as good as my Proto E7s!!!! My Milwaukee Road SD9 (purchased in 1979) will just keep going on "MOMENTUM" for quite a ways after you turn the powerpack's knob from 3/4 to ZERO.

I thought it was a fluke first, but it's the same with all of the Athearns I have. Is there a difference in current or voltage draw with the older motors? I thought that they would be less efficient and run like "dogs" compared to the newer units. Funny thing is the growl is the same!

Thanks!

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: BRAKIE: "most diesels was 4 wheel drive or had a rubber shaft running between the trucks on the bottom side of the locomotive....Now as far as the Athearn HIfi drive most replace the motor with a double shafted Pittman motor(remember those?) ...

SOUNDS like the early Tenshodo diesel drive, as Hobbytown used (still does) U joints with square brass rods. I HAD the Pittman 'Hi F'motor replacement's and donated one to the 'Museum' display case @ Caboose Hobbies when I replaced my F's with Stewart's (Kato drive).

I welcome Athearn's upgrades of Railpower shells, especially with a better motor. I think 'Proto 2000' gave them a wake up' call.

QUOTE: WT259: I'm waiting to see if Athearn will do a run of the SD45-2, in ATSF.

May I second that? I too am eagerly awaiting a RTR SD-45-2 so I can replace the last of my remaining of Irv's wide bodies.

[BRAKIE]

Don,The first Athearn gear drive lack flywheels..These came out shortly after the Hi Fi drive..The second gear drive had metal(iron?) looking flywheels,then the third drive had the brass flywheels that are still in use today.
As far as the Hobbytown drive it had a single shaft with rubber tubbing running between trucks.This is why the flywheel was mounted in the cab area.
The early KMT drives had the same setup as the Tenshdo diesels.. Then it was change to the double shaft drive.
Now before Atlas/Kato there was Atlas/Rocco both in N scale and HO..This was a fairly good drive.Then in the 80s Atlas/Kato team up first in N scale with a RS3(about 83?) then after that in HO..Atlas help design the Atlas/Kato drive.
BTW Athearn also use brass wheels on their early gear drives then change to the iron wheels in the mid 60 or there about..
The Hobbytown drive without the flywheels that you mention was the first drives they made.Then as a upgrade they added the flywheel around 59/60.
The CF7 and SD50s come with coupler that has knuckle springs..Kds? The new Mchenrys?
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You said: "Like a 'girl friend' that's cheap, and easy."
Where? If you know of one and shes fairly good looking send her my way.[}:)][;)][:D]
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Now the newer Athearn RTR cars are very sharp looking cars and well worth the price as is the Genesis cars...The BB RTRs,well they're BB's but with metal wheels.. And all to sadly the same plastic KD wanna bes that comes in the kits...[xx(]
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Again,Athearn was the first with the double ended drive with flywheels.Up until that time most diesels was 4 wheel drive or had a rubber shaft running between the trucks on the bottom side of the locomotive.Not a perfect setup as the rubber shaft would break or would expand.So most modelers replace the rubber shaft with model airplane fuel line.Now as far as the Athearn HIfi drive most replace the motor with a double shafted Pittman motor(remember those?) and rubber "O" ring like rubber bands or paid the few dollars extra for the early gear drive(no flywheels) when Athearn started releasing these locomotives...However the advanced modelers would replace the HIFI drive with the Hobby town of Boston drive made for the Athearn units..

[wt259]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kbfcsme

Ever since Athearn acquired Rail Power Products I have been waiting to see how long it will take for some of the Blue Box engine to cease to exist. Especially the "wide bodies". RPP made some great looking scale width shells in its day, and in greater variety than Athearn did.
It would be nice if this turned out to be the dawn of a rejuvinated Athearn Blue box line, with improved and correct shells. The new Athearn CF-7 is a prime example of what IS possible!

I have the GP60M/B's and aside from a height problem, they run great... I'm waiting to see if Athearn will do a run of the SD45-2, in ATSF. With the Atlas Dash8-40CW's my roster would be just about complete. And there should be enough room in the SD45-2 to accomodate sound easily..

[Todd McWilliam]

Being a college student Athearn blue boxes are all i can afford. I detail them and make them look pretty good.

[Anonymous]

I have to say that I was mad at Athearn for awhile after my SD70 escapade.Never saw a locomotive that was so hard to disassemble.And trying to install DCC with all those little bulbs,resistors and wires.I am an HVAC tech by trade and see alot of electronics and that Genesis circuitry is a nightmare.Then that SD50 came out.What a beautiful piece of machinery!That one is the best Athearn yet.Still has the dependable motor.The engineering on that circuit board is beautiful,something that Athearn should have released on the initial run of Genesis.If they keep building them like that SD50,theyll have a customer for life here.I still prefer thier rolling stock kits over the RTR.I dont like the wheels they are using or the EZ breaks.So I hope they will keep the kits alive.Now if I could find a CSX SD40-2 with the newer drive.Dan

[CP5415]

Without Athearn's BB stuff, where will newcomers to the hobby get a decent set for a decent price?
Life-Like & Bachman sets are the same cheap sets that they've had since the 70's & probably older.
Even with my recent purchases of Proto locomotives, I still check out what Athearn's has coming out.
I'll always choose BB stuff over anything else unless I can't get it in BB.

Gordon

[Don Gibson]

MOST current engines share common design areas in a General sense. Who came first (The 'Chicken or the egg)' come to mind. Uncle Irv, contributed some - and borowed some.

My memory serves: Athearns biggest contributions were dual (fore and aft) motor shafts (rubber band drive), 8 wheel split chassis pickup, and doing it cheaper than everyone else.
Hobbytown used tower gears with single ended motors when Athearn was building Rubber Band Drives.
KMT (Kumata Japan) coupled the Hobbytown tower gears to a dual motor shaft on all their brass exports .
Atlas imported the first KATO drive (85?) which had 4 U joints, worm gears, improved towers, outside wheel electrical pickup, and flywheels --all of which Atlas / Kato / Stewart / and Athearn Genesis now use.

Not trusting my memory, I pulled out an early Atlas/Kato combination of the late 80's(?), and earlier version of Athearn's PA, and a current version of a Genesis - to compare. I also have 2 old Hobbytowns (no flywheels).

it seems to me that Athearn incorporated some other people's design into their product. Certainly Athearn's 8 wheel pickup is a major contribution, but Athearn also compromised on many things others did not: Iron wheels, body dimensions, and quality control. That seems to be the things some 'Athearn bashers' pick on. on the other hand, Athearn has always appealed to those who wanted bargain pricing and simple assembly - sorta' like having a 'girl friend' that's cheap, and easy. What's not to like?

I have wonder if all those to who Athearn is 'Heroic' will still be there, when Blue boxes sell for $5 less than the RTR?

[dharmon]

Well that's just great........the thread started to go downhill too fast and now we have overheated brake (ies).......[;)]

[BRAKIE]

Don,I First I am not going to get into a needless argument .with you.You should know what I am talking Its the same basic design with improvements..Peroid end of subject!!!
No Athearn was not the first to use a flywheel drive..Hobbytown of Boston was.This flywheel could be seen in the cab of the RS3 and Athearn GP7 repowerng drive...Yes,Don Hobbytown of Boston made a gear drive with flywheel for the old Athearn Hi Fi Drive.
http://bearlocomo.zoovy.com/product/K049

[Anonymous]

Don:

Atlas and Kato both use the same basic design as Athearn. They have refined the design further than Athearn has on the Blue Box units. But it's still the same basic flywheel-equipped motor to worm gear on a gear tower drive and a heavy frame(As opposed to the other designs, most notably the 'Power Truck' which work fine in larger scales but not in HO or smaller). The biggest advantage the Kato-style drive has is simply better quality production, with higher quality motors and better tolerances than the Blue Box units, not any real design difference. Of course, the heavier frames do help too.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

Atlas,Atlas/Kato,Kato and most other major brands base their drives on the Athearn drive..But,like I said with improvements..This was mention in the MR locomotive roundup article...Also compare drives and you will see the same basic design.Nothing new here Don..Just takes close observation of the design of the drives..

PRETTY BROAD STROKES here, Larry. I'm glad it "just takes close observation". One only has to start with the differnce in electrical pickup from the axles (inside wheel vs. outside) to find differences. Note I said "start ". Close observation isn't even necessary.

2, If "Atlas,Atlas/Kato,Kato and most other brands base their drives on" Athearn, how come they all run better?

start smoother
use less current
run at more realistic speeds.

3. IF your criterea is simply that all have motors, worm gears, and wheels, There wouldn't be any argument . Flywheels? Was Athearn the first?

4. ALL brands have added 'improvements' over time. I recall 4 different Athearn chassis': Direct gear - rubber band - metal side frame pickup - inside bearing pickup. Which did you have in mind?

[Don Gibson]

Don, would you be kind enough to explain the boldened abbreviations? Thanks.

QUOTE: He also rarely had R.O.I., slept in his office many night's, continually painted his stuff in violation of EPI, and saved money by not booking in trade shows.

Altonfan; ROI = "Return On Investment". Irv was reputed to not keep itemized track of such things.

[AntonioFP45]

Regarding the HO Athearns being to wide.

On the Athearn EMD hood units YES, this has always been very noticeable. [8)]

However, on the Athearn GE U-33 the discrepancy is not as pronounced especially since in the prototype the rear 1/3 of the U-Boat's hood section (where the "wings are) is wider than the narrow prototype EMD hoods which are the same width from the cab to the rear platform. [:)][:D]

This is why I indicate that this factor makes the width of the "middle section" less noticeable on the Athearn GEs. [;)] The benefit of this is that compared to an Atlas or other "high end" GE models there is more room to accommodate DCC / Sound components. [4:-)][tup]

As I've suggested before on another post, installing "See Thru" grills on Athearn U-Boats really make them stand out. Thanks to trackster, I'll be getting some of the GE grills from Overland Models. [:)][:D][8D][:p][;)][8)]

Cheers with an E7 in Run 8!

[BRAKIE]

Of all my locomotives my two favorites is a old Athearn GP7 I got back in 1975 and a SW1500 I got about 8 years ago..When I first bought these units I tweak the drives to my standards.Both units are well worn and very smooth runners.[:D] Frankly,I hope my Atlas,Atlas/Katos,my 4 Katos,My P2K's are around as long as that old geep been.[:D]
Guys,I am happy that Athearn will continue to produce the Blue Box line..There are many modelers out there that models on a budget like I use to when I had a family to raise,house to paid for and the many other bills,costs of raising a family,college for the kids-well you guys know the song and dance...
Not to brag..Today I count myself Lucky that I can afford the high dollar models-not that I pay full price mind you,even me being a bachelor I can't afford the full MSRP...However,I will not forget the company that kept me in the hobby -Athearn ..I will continue to buy their products both the BBs,RTR and some Genesis.[:D]

[Anonymous]

huh.... interesting response from athearn.... nothing we didnt already know.... but its alwasy reassureing to see them say the blue boxes will still be around.

and as long as they are around i will keep on buying them. i love athearns kits. they are like half the locomotives i have and like 60% to 70% of the rolling stock i have. (the rest being mostaly roundhouse). their engines are the niceset to work on ever. they are so simple yet work so well. once you know how an athearn gose together you can figure out jsut about anything else, cuase they are all basitly copys of athearns. mind there are some changes in say an atlas or a kato, when you break it down they all fallow the athearn design.

someone earlyer was saying that they would love to see better blue box kits i.e. railpower shells, and no more fatsos... i think this would be awesome. the fatsos bug me a bit but i can handel them, but i would always love to see some of their clasics with scale width hoods =)

im kinda going all over the place here.... geuss im jsut reminicing too =P
well take care all.

[Anonymous]

Courious but true - no joke !!!!!!!!!!!

I asked Athearn via mail about the Blue Boxes - I asked in the first line for cars - last week and got an answer one day later.

This is a brandnew official Athearn answer about the Blue Boxes:

Thank-you for taking the time to send in your inquiry regarding our regular "Blue Box" product line. Please note that we have no intentions to discontinue producing our regular line "Blue Box" items. We continue to produce these items on a daily basis here at our plant and will continue to do so as long there is a sufficient demand for those products. Please also note that we cannot produce all of the products that we catalog all of the time so we "batch produce" our products. Consequently all of our products are not always readily available.

[ericsp]

I looks like Athearn is producing F7s currently. They told me that they will be producing GP7s (formerly mislabeled GP9) in the fall. No SD40T-2s scheduled as of now.