Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

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Posted by strainst on Saturday, April 6, 2019 12:23 PM

I came across this set box several weeks ago.  The set box is stamped 1221.  When I looked it up I found this set list for just one year, 1926.  After I received the box, I saw it also has another set number stamp on the same end as the 1221 stamp.  It is either IF3389 of 1F3389.  Is this a set sold by Montgomery Ward?  Do you think it had the same contents as the 1221 set?
Box Front
setbox
Here is the side with the stamps.
side
Any thought?
 
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Posted by Nationwidelines on Saturday, April 6, 2019 1:20 PM

Strainst,

Set 1221 was cataloged between 1921 and 1926.  

During the period from 1921-1924 the set was comprised of a 1218 engine, 1200 series baggage car, two coaches, a #90 station, semaphore, and tunnel.

Between 1925 and 1926 the set came with a 3011 engine, baggage, coach, observation, mail bag set, #90 station, semaphore, and tunnel.

As for number 1F3389 that is a Butler Brothers number that corresponds to years 1925 (and possibly 1926, as my data source does not contain the info for 1926).  The Butler Brothers number for years 1921-1924 was simply F3389.

Since it is a Butler Brothers number, I can say that the items contained within the set would match the items described by American Flyer for that set.

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Posted by strainst on Saturday, April 6, 2019 2:23 PM

Northwoods Flyer

I dug out the photos of my orange roofed American Flyer set.  In all of the photos of the baggage cars for this set posted on this site, the roof and the doors are painted orange.  When I looked at my set, my roof is painted orange but the doors are painted green.  I thought maybe somewhere in the past; the body was switched out for some reason???  I did notice while looking at the pictures, my baggage body is a bit darker than the passenger cars and the observation.  When I went back to the photos posted originally, the first picture is an image of the page in Schuweiler’s book.  In that photo showing the cars for this set, that baggage also has green doors, so maybe my set is ok!
The locomotive and tender for my set (AF 617-614 Type XIX Loco w/ 3181 Type II Tender):
l/t
My baggage car:
bc
Schuweiler's book on O gauge Pre-War American Flyer shows one passenger car, mersenne6 posting shows one passenger car, but Northwoods posting shows two passenger cars.  I guessing this set could have had one or two passenger cars when it was released.   My set has two passenger cars.

pc

Second passenger car:

ps2

Here is the obstervation:

ob

 

All of these cars have Type VIII(a) trucks and Type VII(b) or (c) couplers.
[“As I mentioned a few posts back I have been putting together a set of the green litho orange roofed passenger cars.  I have the cars with the rounded roofs with ventilator bumps.  The set I am working on has the squared roofs with ventilator bumps.” Northwoods Flyer]
These cars all have the square ends roofs. 
The observation car has a green end with a white canopy with no signage on the observation railing.
ac
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Posted by strainst on Saturday, April 6, 2019 2:35 PM

Nationwidelines

Strainst,

Set 1221 was cataloged between 1921 and 1926.  

During the period from 1921-1924 the set was comprised of a 1218 engine, 1200 series baggage car, two coaches, a #90 station, semaphore, and tunnel.

Between 1925 and 1926 the set came with a 3011 engine, baggage, coach, observation, mail bag set, #90 station, semaphore, and tunnel.

As for number 1F3389 that is a Butler Brothers number that corresponds to years 1925 (and possibly 1926, as my data source does not contain the info for 1926).  The Butler Brothers number for years 1921-1924 was simply F3389.

Since it is a Butler Brothers number, I can say that the items contained within the set would match the items described by American Flyer for that set.

NWL

 

Thanks NWL, I need to slow down when looking for set numbers and the years they were used.  I did find a couple of images of the set from 1925-6 from a Stout Auction listing for their 5/15/2010 auction.  this set looks like it was missing the tunnel.

set

 

set2

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, April 6, 2019 7:57 PM

 

 

[/quote]

strainst

Northwoods Flyer

I dug out the photos of my orange roofed American Flyer set.  In all of the photos of the baggage cars for this set posted on this site, the roof and the doors are painted orange.  When I looked at my set, my roof is painted orange but the doors are painted green.  I thought maybe somewhere in the past; the body was switched out for some reason???  I did notice while looking at the pictures, my baggage body is a bit darker than the passenger cars and the observation.  When I went back to the photos posted originally, the first picture is an image of the page in Schuweiler’s book.
 
Edit
 
 
In that photo showing the cars for this set, that baggage also has green doors, so maybe my set is ok!
The locomotive and tender for my set (AF 617-614 Type XIX Loco w/ 3181 Type II Tender):
 
My baggage car:
bc
 
I think that your baggage with the green door is a legitimate variation.  I have seen others, but I don't have one yet.
 
Schuweiler's book on O gauge Pre-War American Flyer shows one passenger car, mersenne6 posting shows one passenger car, but Northwoods posting shows two passenger cars.  I guessing this set could have had one or two passenger cars when it was released.   My set has two passenger cars.

All o
ac
strainst
 
 

 

My set came to me with the two passenger coaches, but I have not idea if that is how it started out its life.  I suspect that they were marketed as both 3 and 4 car sets.
 

 I'm glad to see that there was a 4 car set with squared roofs.

The search continues. Smile

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Saturday, April 6, 2019 9:17 PM

I would guess that in order to save space, the Greenberg's guide only showed 1 coach.  The guide was not intended to show sets, rather it was designed to show variations, so there was no need to show the additional coach.  

 

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Posted by mersenne6 on Sunday, April 7, 2019 9:17 AM

strainst, you say you dug out your pictures of your set - so does this mean you have a set box with a number for the set?  If you do, I'd love to know the set ID.

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Posted by strainst on Sunday, April 7, 2019 11:32 AM

mersenne6

strainst, you say you dug out your pictures of your set - so does this mean you have a set box with a number for the set?  If you do, I'd love to know the set ID.

 Sorry, no set box.  I would love to see a set in the original set box.  When I dug the pictures of the set out, I used that term to mean to find the pictures I have on my hard drive.
 
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Posted by strainst on Sunday, April 7, 2019 11:46 AM

Northwoods Flyer    The Red Roofed Set (Part 1)
I have tried to post this a couple of times and have been unsuccessful.  Maybe I had too many pictures attached, so this time I will post the Part 1 with general over pictures.
I just recently, within the last two months, came across this set with the red roofs.   I knew of its existence and was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time.  The individual I received the set from lives in Organ.  I asked if he had any history on the set.  It has been in his collection for several years and he purchased at an antique mall in Vancouver, Washingtion.   There several differences between the orange roofed set and the red roofed set.  See the posting The Red Set (Part 2)
set
 
 
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Posted by strainst on Sunday, April 7, 2019 12:11 PM

Northwoods Flyer    The Red Roofed Set (Part 2)
 
The locomotive for the set is a cast iron Type III No. 3197.  It is the later version with one of the domes removed, the rivets around the remaining dome removed, the window design changed, the cab roof extends farther back, and the highlighting color has changed to yellow.
The tender is the same Champion Type II No. 3181 with fake back-up light.
 
 
 
 
 
 
When looking this set over, I noticed on the bottom of the locomotive, there was a dot of red paint on the fiber board next to the rear collector.  The red paint looks to be a match the color of the roofs.  Was this a marking used by American Flyer to denote that this locomotive was supposed to go with a red roofed set?
Part 3 will have additional pictures of the passenger cars.
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, April 7, 2019 2:42 PM

strainst,

Nice find on the set!  As I posted before I passed up a set of the cars because I didn't think they were a real variation.  I have since learned my lesson.  I guess that is what happens when you don't have evey entry in the Greenberg Guide memorized.  Embarrassed  I look forward to seeing the rest of Part 2.

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Posted by strainst on Sunday, April 7, 2019 8:22 PM

Northwoods Flyer

strainst,

Nice find on the set!  As I posted before I passed up a set of the cars because I didn't think they were a real variation.  I have since learned my lesson.  I guess that is what happens when you don't have evey entry in the Greenberg Guide memorized.  Embarrassed  I look forward to seeing the rest of Part 2.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

I was able to finish Part 2.  I will have Part 3 tomorrow with additional pictures of the passenger, baggage, and obstervation cars.

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Posted by strainst on Tuesday, April 9, 2019 12:54 PM

Northwoods Flyer    The Red Roofed Set (Part 3 Passenger Cars)
The passenger cars have red roofs, the baggage car has a red roof and doors, and the observation car has a red roof and an orange rear and canopy.  The orange roofed cars and red roofed cars both have Type VIII(a) trucks, however the red roofed cars have Type V T-hook (garter belt) couplers instead of the Type VII(b)/(c) couplers.
Baggage Car

Passenger Car 1

Passenger Car 2

and Observation Car

I notice both passenger cars have a pale green area above the windows where “AMERICAN FLYER LINES” is printed.  The other sets shown in these posting do not; the area above the windows have the same background color as the rest of the cars.  Is this unique?
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Friday, April 19, 2019 3:38 PM

Accessories

American Flyer #4032 Crossing Gate

version A

For those of you who are familiar with Lionel Standard Gauge you are probably saying to youself  "Hey! That is a Lionel #77 Standard Gauge Crossing Gate"

And you would be right except for one tiny detail.

On the underside of the base there is a small scrap of a paper label.

 


When you take a close look you can see what this really is.

This is Model No. 4032, which is the designation that American Flyer used for this crossing gate when they carried it in their catalog.  Apparently 1926 -1929 Lionel sold these to American Flyer to sell through their catalog.  In the early years there are several examples of Flyer maketing items made by other manufacturers and even competetors.

For being 90+ years old it looks pretty good, and it still works.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Thursday, May 9, 2019 1:48 PM

Back on Page #72 (08/30/2018) I posted some information on Set No5.  Northwestern Passenger from 1938:

Northwoods Flyer

1938   Set No. 5

Northwestern Passenger

Now that I have the boxes for the set I thought I would post an update with some additional photos.

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Posted by LL675 on Monday, May 13, 2019 10:48 AM
beautiful set Greg

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Friday, May 24, 2019 2:30 PM

1938  Set No. 10

Northern Pacific Freight

Here is another beauty from 1938. These transition years produced some beautiful blends of production from the Coleman era and the Gilbert era.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Friday, May 24, 2019 7:31 PM

I let my 3195 stretch her legs a bit yesterday while my 310 did the honors on the S gauge loop:

She's pulling a flyer 1115 Automobile car, a Dorfan gondola and an Ives 63 gon and 567 caboose (4 wheel version of the 67).

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Posted by LL675 on Friday, May 24, 2019 8:27 PM
very nice Penny!

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, May 25, 2019 9:54 AM

Penny,

Thanks for posting the video.  Its fun to watch, and your work is inspirational.  I think congratulations are appropriate as well.  I don't think anyone else has ever posted a video to the thread.   A tip of the old fedora to you...

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Friday, June 21, 2019 8:52 AM

American Flyer Station #104

Recently mersenne6 pointed out to me that there was an American Flyer #104 station up for sale on ebay. He identified it as the earliest version of the station.  I located it, put in a bid on it and held my breath.  I was very surprised when I won it for the princely sum of $17.37!

This is what Schuweiler says in the Guide to Wide Gauge about the 96/104 Stations. (page 98)

"In the 3 Million catalog" the 96 Passenger station was offered.  In the 1925 catalog, a lighted version, No. 104 Passenger Station, was offered in addition to the 96.  The mere addition of the light more than doubled the price from $1.15 for the 96 to $2.35 for the 104 in the 1927 catalog.  The 96 unlighted version remained cataloged until 1935.  In 1928 American Flyer named it "Flossmoor"."

Notice the the lithographed identification that says American Flyer Station No 96.

The lithography on the back differs from the lithography on the front.

And the lithograpy on the ends also differs.

 

Thanks for the heads up mersenne. Its nice to have knowlegable friends who can point out variations.  What else can you tell us about this variation?

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Posted by bearestir on Saturday, July 13, 2019 9:13 PM

Photos of an Empire Express set - I have the coach but I don't know why I didn't photograph the coach (which is in similar shape to the observation car) when I took the pictures.  (Edited to add:  The set is on my display shelves so I'll take a pic of the Knickerbocker coach.)Empire Express Locomotive

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Monday, July 15, 2019 11:07 PM

Thanks bearestir for posting.  I know that someone has posted photos of this set before, but it is worth seeing again. I haven't taken the time to find the original posting here on the thread. I am not sure where I got the photo below but I have it stored in my shutterfly account.

These are from the Toy Train Treasury Vol. 2

I hope to be able to add this set to the collection some day.

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Northwoods Flyer

Edit:

bearestir,

It appears the postings that I was thinking of were made by you!  I found them back on page 68. Thanks again for posting these.  I have seen one set in person.  Now if I can only find those photos.

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Posted by bearestir on Sunday, August 4, 2019 10:49 AM

Here's a picture of a 1464 set:

1464 SetLocomotive for AF 1464 Set

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Friday, November 1, 2019 10:25 AM

Greetings Friends,

It has been almost 3 months since the last post to this thread.  I know that there have been loyal readers and probably some new ones during that time.  To all of you who have been reading I say thank you.  In those 3 months we have packed up our possessions, put them in storage, sold the excess, hunted for a train room with an attached house and closed on it yesterday.  One of the most stressful and time consuming activities was packing up the Northwoods Flyer Collection.  I vastly underestimated what I had and how long it would take to pack.  It is currently waiting in storage to inhabit its new home.  The Blueboard Central Division of American Fyer Lines no longer exists.  The new layout will have a new name.  Once we have moved into the new house I can start on the Train Room/Museum and office.

So stay tuned.

What was:

What is:

 

What is to come:   Big Smile

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Northwoods Flyer

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Posted by fifedog on Sunday, November 10, 2019 6:40 AM

Northwoods - Huge congrats on the new abode.  Future train room looks inviting.  Do the lights first.  Looking forward to your planning and progress.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, November 10, 2019 6:54 PM

Looks like a great space!  Congrats on the new train room.....er....uh....I mean house!  Wink

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Posted by LL675 on Sunday, November 17, 2019 6:50 PM

Greg if I had that kind of space to start over with my trains and layout, the only time I would be seen was going to or coming from the lumber yard or train shows.

Dave

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Friday, December 13, 2019 10:57 AM

We have a 10 month old grandson (our first grandchild) who will be experiencing his first Christmas this year.  If I can find the boxes this is the train that will be circling the Christmas tree.  The Christmas Express.

Its nice to have enough items in the collection to be able to assemble a Christmas train.

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Northwoods Flyer

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