Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Thursday, December 13, 2018 6:52 AM

I guess this car just shows that some items don't stand the test of time.  At 111 years old, the litho is peeling/flaking off the body of the car, which renders it to the parts bin.

NWL

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Friday, December 14, 2018 1:05 PM

Sherman (NationWideLines),

I think most of us would like to take a ride (or several) on the Wayback Machine.  Just imagine all of the goodies we could find, and the questions we could find answers to. Wink  Nice find on the Brigadier set.

Accessories

#2018  Block Signal Lights

When NWL and I were at York back in October he found one of these signals and pointed it out to me.  It was missing its light hoods and the paint was in very rough condition.  I debated about buying it for a while, because I didn't have one in the collection and they don't come up very often.  In the end I decided to pass on it.  Instead I came across a repainted one recently and in one of the rare examples of adding a repaint to the collection, I snapped it up.

The Greenberg guide lists it as being cataloged in 1925 - 1926 but does not have a picture or an illustration of it.

These are from the 1925 catalog page of accessories.

Most of the time when I have seen examples of the #2018 they are missing the light hoods, or they have been replaced with Lionel switch light covers.  This one has two original Flyer hoods.

And with the bulbs lighted.

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The Northwoods Flyer Collection

of

American Flyer Trains

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Friday, December 28, 2018 9:48 AM

3007 Sand Car

I know that this car has been posted before on the thread.  I recently got my first one to add to the collection and thought I would share it.

The Greenberg guide lists this as version (A) Union Pacific.  The #3007 was cataloged from 1925 -1927, but this version only appeared in 1925 - 1926.

There are three other variations of this car listed.  The hunt goes on.  Wink

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Posted by mersenne6 on Friday, December 28, 2018 7:21 PM
American Flyer’s use of leftover parts inventory
 
The set below looks very much like Flyer’s set M0 from 1914.  However, in 1914 Flyer introduced a new litho treatment for the passenger car body style with a car number of 102 and a new frame.  Greenberg has designated the new frame Type III. The frame on the car in the picture is a Type III but the car body is the older Chicago litho style which does not match the 102 litho nor the window treatment of that car.
 

 

I purchased this set about 9 years ago, added it to my collection and didn’t think much more about it. Sometime later as I was looking at the set it occurred to me the Chicago car didn’t look quite right.  I pulled out my copy of the Greenberg Guide to pre-war American Flyer and was somewhat surprised to find this car was not listed and, based on the guide, shouldn’t even exist. 
 
   With this in mind I took a closer look at my car and found small skid mark indentations on the underside of the frame which radiated out from each of the body tabs which were bent to hold body and frame together.  The set is/was like new so I thought it odd someone would have taken a perfectly new Chicago car and installed it on a 1914 frame but then people do make changes even to brand new items all the time so perhaps someone had done just this back when the set was new.
 
  A few years back a west coast seller put a set exactly like mine up for bid on e-bay.  He split the train set into two separate auctions – engine/tender and the car.  I tried to win both but was outbid on the engine/tender combination.  When the car arrived the first thing I did was turn it over to check its assembly.  Just like the others it had assembly skid marks.

 

The fact that I had purchased my set in the east and the car above came from the west coast got me to wondering about the how and why of this car.  One car – a home modification, two cars on almost opposite sides of the country…well, maybe there was more than one person who didn’t like the 1914 102 car and decided to do something about it.  On the other hand maybe it was something else.  About a year after purchasing the above car I found another fairly beat up example at a local train meet.  A check of the underside showed the same build skid marks.  Time passed, I found other examples both at meets and in other collections. My current count for the number of cars of this type is 11.
 
  As attested to by trains in numerous collections American Flyer was well known for using old parts inventory on trains of later manufacture. A single example of this car could easily be attributed to a home modification but when the count reaches 11 and the cars are present in collections in a number of different states the odds of home modification dwindle to almost zero. This, in turn, would argue either Flyer or one of their customers set up a manual assembly line and turned out as many cars as there were leftover bodies.  At this late date, the only way to be absolutely certain that this happened would be to find a boxed M0 set with the contents shown above.

 

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Saturday, December 29, 2018 6:00 PM

mersenne6
American Flyer’s use of leftover parts inventory
 
The set below looks very much like Flyer’s set M0 from 1914.  However, in 1914 Flyer introduced a new litho treatment for the passenger car body style with a car number of 102 and a new frame.  Greenberg has designated the new frame Type III. The frame on the car in the picture is a Type III but the car body is the older Chicago litho style which does not match the 102 litho nor the window treatment of that car.
 

 

I purchased this set about 9 years ago, added it to my collection and didn’t think much more about it. Sometime later as I was looking at the set it occurred to me the Chicago car didn’t look quite right.  I pulled out my copy of the Greenberg Guide to pre-war American Flyer and was somewhat surprised to find this car was not listed and, based on the guide, shouldn’t even exist. 
 
   With this in mind I took a closer look at my car and found small skid mark indentations on the underside of the frame which radiated out from each of the body tabs which were bent to hold body and frame together.  The set is/was like new so I thought it odd someone would have taken a perfectly new Chicago car and installed it on a 1914 frame but then people do make changes even to brand new items all the time so perhaps someone had done just this back when the set was new.
 
  A few years back a west coast seller put a set exactly like mine up for bid on e-bay.  He split the train set into two separate auctions – engine/tender and the car.  I tried to win both but was outbid on the engine/tender combination.  When the car arrived the first thing I did was turn it over to check its assembly.  Just like the others it had assembly skid marks.

 

The fact that I had purchased my set in the east and the car above came from the west coast got me to wondering about the how and why of this car.  One car – a home modification, two cars on almost opposite sides of the country…well, maybe there was more than one person who didn’t like the 1914 102 car and decided to do something about it.  On the other hand maybe it was something else.  About a year after purchasing the above car I found another fairly beat up example at a local train meet.  A check of the underside showed the same build skid marks.  Time passed, I found other examples both at meets and in other collections. My current count for the number of cars of this type is 11.
 
  As attested to by trains in numerous collections American Flyer was well known for using old parts inventory on trains of later manufacture. A single example of this car could easily be attributed to a home modification but when the count reaches 11 and the cars are present in collections in a number of different states the odds of home modification dwindle to almost zero. This, in turn, would argue either Flyer or one of their customers set up a manual assembly line and turned out as many cars as there were leftover bodies.  At this late date, the only way to be absolutely certain that this happened would be to find a boxed M0 set with the contents shown above.

 

 

Mersenne6,

Thanks for posting this.  I don't think there is much of a question that Flyer made the Chicago cars with the frame as you have shown.  I think it is just due to the fact that they ran out of frames before they ran out of bodies.  I have one of the early wooden tank cars, which is on the same frame, even though the Greenberg's guide shows the same tank on the similar style frame on the early 4 window Chicago cars.

To me the most interesting item in your set is the 328 tender with the orange/red frame.  I would have suspected that would be an earlier era tender than 1914.  I know the early Chicago cars and 328 tenders with odd color frames are typically early production and after a certain point they become black painted frames.  However, I know the orange/red framed 328 tender is a later tender due to it having a butterfly style coupler (if I remember correctly).

 

NWL

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Posted by mersenne6 on Saturday, December 29, 2018 7:13 PM

NWL

   Hmmmm....now things get really interesting.  I went upstairs and checked the set and the spare car.  The tender on my set does indeed have a butterfly coupler.  Both cars match with respect to frame, body and coupler.  The car couplers are Type 4a. which, according to Greenberg is consistent with 1914.

  Even though I didn't win the engine/tender combination to go with the second car I did keep a screen shot of them.  It turns out I was so focused on the cars that I didn't really look at the engine and tender.  A check of the screen shot indicates the engine matches mine however the tender is a #328 with the shorter black frame ... and the coupler on the rear of the tender looks like a Type V.  It is definitely not a IVb with the extra bend at the bottom of the hook. If Greenberg is correct, the Type V dates from 1918.  I guess I really don't know what to make of the tender differences. What I do know is I wish I had put in a higher bid for the engine and tender...

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Friday, January 18, 2019 8:30 AM

Accessories

#2010 Double Arc Light

Do you have one particular type of engine or car or accessory that you like more than others?  Over the years I have come to realize that I have a fondness for streetlights.  I have managed to gather quite a few of them from a variety of manufacturers. Two that have eluded me over the years are the #2009 and the #2010.  At the Fall 2018 York I finally found a #2010 Double Arc Light within the first 10 minutes of browsing at the Wyndham.

I have always been fascinated by the fancy filigree work on the top section.

 

Greenberg dates it as being available Circa 1920 - 1926

along with its single lamp sibling the #2009.

It is a fairly tall lamp but can be used with either Wide or Narrow gauge as this photo illustrates.

I am still looking for a #2009, but as usually happens, in short order I found a second #2010 to keep the first one company.  That satisfied my other goal of having at least a pair of the examples of streetlights that I have.

The hunt continues.

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American Flyer Trains

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Posted by LL675 on Saturday, January 19, 2019 12:06 AM

truly a work of art

Dave

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Saturday, January 19, 2019 4:22 PM

Accessories.....

Here is a more unusual accessory, the 209 Telegraph Pole.

 

Ok, nothing unusual about the ones above, but how were they packaged?

 

The box is stamped 1/2 Dozen in the upper left corner (or Lower Right, when viewed upside down).  

To me, the most interesting observation is that the label for the 209 Telegraph Poles, which is largely missing, was pasted over the label for a Danger Signal.  I have never observed a box of 6 Danger Signals, but I have seen at least 2 other boxed sets of 6 Telegraph Poles, one an early set like the ones I have and the other a late set, which were the stamped sheetmetal telegraph poles.

NWL

 

 

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Posted by wrmcclellan on Saturday, January 19, 2019 10:08 PM

One would hope there is some way to capture this entire thread and do something like publish it!

Regards, Roy

            

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Posted by LL675 on Saturday, January 19, 2019 10:33 PM
totally agree! Paging Professor Carp!!

Dave

It's a TOY, A child's PLAYTHING!!! (Woody  from Toy Story)

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Tuesday, January 22, 2019 8:20 PM
Happy Anniversary
 

January 22, 2008  -  January 22, 2019

 

Celebrating

11

 years

of

Pre War American Flyer Pictures

 

Eleven years! Where has the time gone? How did it get to be the time for me to wish all of us another Happy Annniversary?  It seems appropriate that as I sit writing this it is a cold and snowy night here is Wisconsin just as it was 11 years ago when I wrote the first entry in this thread.  The snow is falling and it feels good to be safe and warm sitting in my train room listening to the clatter of tin wheels on tinplate track. 

I am thankful for the opportunity to partcipate in this wonderful hobby and to share it with a knowledgeable and friendly group of people.  One of the highlights of this past year was the opportunity to go to York in October.  I met several of the folks who contribute here regularly.  I travelled with NationWideLines and we talked American Flyer almost non-stop on the drive. Thanks NWL for a great trip.  I finally met mersenne6 who has been an invaluble resource and contributor.  I also met folks who read the thread but haven't taken the plunge and contributed yet.  One of the most interesting experiences was walking through the Halls at York and seeing things I had only read about in books. I wore my TCA generated name tag, but I added my name here, Northwoods Flyer, to it. As I walked the halls and stopped at tables, several times I heard "Northwoods Flyer!  Are you the guy who hosts the thread on the CTT website."  I smiled a lot, talked a lot, and met numerous new friends.  I guess I am notorious.  I added items to the collection while I was at York. Some of them I have already posted.  I will post more in the coming year.

Once again I want to thank Kalmbach for allowing this thread to run for these 11 years.  What a great ride.  It makes me excited to think about what we will discover this year.  And thanks to all of you who contribute. I look forward to checking on this thread every morning to see what new interesting bit of information or what question needs to be researched.

So it is 11 years.  I've been wondering what photos I would could post this year.  I decided on posting the Type XI tender.  While American Flyer didn't use that label for it, it is a designation that the Greenberg Guide uses for this tender. 

And it is part of my favorite engine tender combination - The Hiawatha

The Type XI tender is sleek and fits well with streamlined engines.

And if you stand them on end next to each other and squint they look like the #11.  Wink

Join me in the new year of gathering and posting information, and asking questions.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

The Northwoods Flyer Collection

of

American Flyer Trains

"The Toy For the Boy"

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