Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

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Posted by JonEddy on Saturday, December 14, 2019 11:27 PM
Love your collection. I just came across it and have been looking at it for info on American Flyer standard gauge engines and trains.
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Monday, December 16, 2019 10:07 AM

JonEddy,

Welcome to the Forums.  Thanks for the kind words.  I hope you have been enjoying your time on the thread.  I don't know of any specific site that has parts diagrams of Wide Gauge, however if you have some specific questions ask them here and someone will probably be able to answer them.

My reference books are currently packed in boxes.  This will give me a reason to go hunting for them.  If my memeory is correct the 4694 is actually the Wide Gauge steamer that American Flyer got from Ives in the bancruptcy.  What cars did you receive from your dad?  Please do post some photos.

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Posted by JonEddy on Wednesday, December 18, 2019 12:22 AM

Thank you for the greeting. I will try to post some pics in the next few days. The story behind my dad's trains is a little different than most kids first train stories. My grandpa had my dad when he was 40 years old in 1945. The engines and cars were actually saved by my grandpa from being thrown away by his employer whom had bought them new for his son back in the late 1920's to early 30's. From what I have been told over the years the set(s) originally had the steam engine 4694 and tender, 2 stock cars(4020), a machine car (4022) in orange with green sides, lumber car(4023) with the stenciled AF logo instead of the AF plates and it only has 3 side post on each side instead of the 5 that the 4022 has, 2 sand gondolas(4017) green, 4021 Red Caboose, 4011 yellow and tan caboose. An electric engine #4743 was also with them too but long before he gave me the trains it was smashed really bad in a box that someone carelessly set a much heavier box on top of. I still have the frame and engine parts but the top is gone and the sides are in bad shape. I believe he also had a box car(4008) but it disappeared before I was given the sets along with one of the stock cars. When he gave them too me in 1995 they were in really bad shape and I had them restored professionally while I was stationed in Southern California. Like I said I will try and post pics later in the week.

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Posted by JonEddy on Thursday, December 19, 2019 10:35 AM

4694 Engine4694 Front4694 right sideAF 4022AF 4011 Caboose

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Posted by JonEddy on Sunday, December 22, 2019 7:21 PM

Here are the rest of my cars. All of these were my dad's except the 4010 which I found on eBay. 

AF 4021AF Stock Car 4020AF Lumber Car 4023 LithoAF Gondola 4017AF Gondola 4017 #2AF Tanker 4010

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 12:10 PM

JonEddy,

Thanks for posting the photos of your Wide Gauge trains.  You are fortunate to have trains that have been passed down through your family.  And thanks for sharing the stories that accompany them.  I always appreciate when someone has trains restored to their original luster.

Your photos inspired me to go looking for some of my Wide Gauge equipment, and I found it.

Wide Gauge 

4021 Caboose

The 4021 was first cataloged in 1928 and was an American Flyer design. Previous to that time Flyer used a Lionel #17 Standard Gauge caboose body rebranded as #4011 for their freight car line.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Tuesday, January 21, 2020 6:25 PM

I've always had a soft spot for those cabooses.  Kisses  The couplers?  Eeeehhh...Confused

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, January 22, 2020 9:31 AM

Penny,

The caboose is a good example of how Flyer used the same designs for their freight cars throughout their lines of trains; Wide Gauge, Narrow Gauge 9 1/2 inch and 6 1/2 inch.

I agree that the Wide Gauge Couplers are not the best looking, nor the easiest to use; however I have never had one uncouple while a train is running.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, January 22, 2020 11:04 AM
Happy Anniversary
 

January 22, 2008  -  January 22, 2020

 

Celebrating

12

 years

of

Pre War American Flyer Pictures

 

Holy Smoke! (a nod to steam engines)
Another year has passed and I find myself once again writing an anniversary greeting. This year has been one of change for me and my family; and at the same time there are some things that have remained constant.
 
Changes: We have a grandson. As the saying goes, if I knew how much fun having grandchildren was I would have had them first! He is being indoctrinated into the love of toy trains. At 11 months he sits on Grandpa’s lap with his hand on the throttle of a transformer. I am grateful for American Flyer’s #12B transformer with its two throttles.  As we run the Carpet Central he gets to move the throttle of lever A while I run the train with lever B.  I retired. After 3 years of planning and counting down the months, my last day of work was the end of August.  My wife followed me into retirement status shortly after. We moved to Duluth Minnesota.  This was a monumental change.  It required finding a dry basement with a livable house above it for a layout and museum/display area. It meant downsizing our possessions (still not completed) and packing up the Northwoods Flyer Collection. This task took far longer than I could have imagined.  You will notice that I did not mention downsizing the collection.  It was never in the plan.  The vast majority of the collection is in 2 different storage locations until we are done with settling in. Because of this move another change occurred.  The BlueBoard Central Division of American Flyer Lines no longer exists.  With a great deal of nostalgia I dismantled it and disposed of some of its components.  The plan for the next layout will be smaller and have dual gauge track so that I can run both Narrow and Wide Gauge trains.
 
Constants:  I am still collecting trains. I have managed to find some items to add to the collection, even though I haven’t had the time to take photographs and post them.  I still read the forums daily.  So if you post photos or ask questions I try to respond in a timely manner.  If you are a regular reader I am sure that you have noticed the gaps between posts.  I hope to be able to change that now that I am retired.  Once I start building the new layout I may post photos here or in a separate thread.  Another constant: Folks continue to read and contribute to this thread. It continues to amaze me the things that folks are finding. And some of the folks who were here at the beginning 12 years ago are still here and active. I continue to learn about American Flyer. I think that this is the most delightful part of this hobby for me as well as being able to build some great friendships. As I have said before I look forward with anticipation each time I check on the thread to see what has been posted and who has made a contribution.  It is a delight too when a new reader joins the conversation or “discovers” American Flyer trains for the first time.
 
I am grateful to Kalmbach Media for another year of providing a place to indulge in The World’s Greatest Hobby. I am grateful to a photo hosting website that has remained free to use during the past 12 years.  There are many folks who have contributed to this thread and helped to make it what it is today – 76 pages of delightful reading, a place to do research, and a meeting spot for like-minded collectors.  I could never give credit to all of them, however I want to acknowledge the contributions of Nation Wide Lines and mersenne6.  Their knowledge and experience and collections far exceed mine. I am most grateful for their friendship and support.
 
So, here we are at 12 years and counting. Now would be a good time to join the conversation, ask a question, or post a photo. Even if your item or set has been posted before I know I always enjoy seeing photos of American Flyer trains and equipment and how folks are enjoying their trains.  I particularly enjoy the stories associated with the trains.  So dig something American Flyer out of one of those boxes under your layout, or take something off the shelf, or take a photo of your layout and share it. Here is looking forward to another fabulous Flyer year.
 
And in keeping with the tradition.  The 12th anniversary is represented by Flyer’s #12 clockwork engine.
 
 

 

And a doting Grandpa couldn’t resist posting 3 generations of “train guys”.


So lets get started on a new year of fun.

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Posted by LL675 on Wednesday, January 22, 2020 12:44 PM
congrats Greg! This is a great thread and has helped me with my small Flyer collection.

Dave

It's a TOY, A child's PLAYTHING!!! (Woody  from Toy Story)

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, January 22, 2020 6:34 PM

Thanks Dave.

While your Flyer collection may be small I appreciate the creativity that you apply in rescuing tinplate one piece at a time.  I am glad that you have found this thread helpful.  Thanks for being a contributor.

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Posted by wrmcclellan on Thursday, January 23, 2020 9:15 PM

Congrats Greg! On many fronts!

Sure enjoyed meeting you at York a few years back. Wish we could have spent more time!

I still think you and CTT should figure out how to make this thread a book!

Regards, Roy

            

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Friday, January 24, 2020 9:38 PM

Thanks Roy,

It has been a very busy year.  I enjoyed our meeting at York too.  I hope to be able to meet again.

CTT knows where I am.  I think that Pre War American Flyer is too small of a niche in the hobby for anyone to take the risk to publish the information available here. I know that there are a few folks who have printed out the entries and have them in notebooks. Besides, this thread provides an almost immediate way to exchange information.  

Thanks again.

Would this work as a cover?  Wink

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Posted by fifedog on Saturday, January 25, 2020 7:20 AM

Simple.  I like it.

YesCool

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Tuesday, January 28, 2020 2:16 PM

Wide Gauge

4020 Stock Car

Cataloged 1928 - 1936

14" Long, "Rolls Royce" two tone blue with a darker roof, door and door guides.

 

 

 

 

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, February 1, 2020 2:22 PM

Wide Gauge

4023 Log Car

1934 -1936

While the Log car is numbered 4023 Schuweiler lists this as variation (B) with 4022 plates. I suspect that this car is not completely original because it comes with 2 "6 Million Happy Owners" plates.  While some cars appeared in this time era with 6 Million plates, this particular 6 Million plate was used in 1928 - 1929.  Flyer using up older stock?  Perhaps.

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Posted by JonEddy on Sunday, February 2, 2020 11:18 PM

I found this 4644 at the Great American Train show here in St. Louis Saturday. There wasn't alot of prewar stuff at the show and he was selling it untested for less than eBay prices and it fired right up when I tested it. It looks like it may have had the roof rewired\repro light installed and maybe new wheels put on at some point too, but it runs like a champ! It looks like someone used some pop rivets on both ends to secure it too. Did all of the electric engines have two supports connecting the two sides together under the roof in the middle? If so then this one is missing them.  Since this is a New Haven style like my 4743 project I can use it for reference when it comes to putting it back together so that makes this deal even sweeter. Big Smile

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, February 3, 2020 6:13 PM

Nice find!  Big SmileThumbs Up

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, February 5, 2020 4:37 PM

JonEddy,

I agree with Penny, Nice Find!  I do believe you have been bitten by the collecting bug. Welcome to the infected colony.  Wink

Wide Gauge

4010 Tank Car

1928 - 1936

This is variation C

Blue bands and grey steps, set trucks, and two "AMMERICAN FLYER TANK LINES" plates per side

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Posted by Penny Trains on Wednesday, February 5, 2020 5:11 PM

Northwoods Flyer
bitten by the collecting bug. Welcome to the infected colony.

one of us....one of us....one of us....

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Posted by JonEddy on Wednesday, February 5, 2020 11:10 PM

Penny Trains

 

 
Northwoods Flyer
bitten by the collecting bug. Welcome to the infected colony.

 

one of us....one of us....one of us....

 

I can think of a lot worse collecting bugs to catch. Wink If only they made a wide gauge version of the Bluebird.....Big Smile

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, February 12, 2020 2:37 PM

Wide Gauge

4006 Hopper 

1931 -1936

While the hopper was cataloged in 1927 it wasn't produced until 1931.

Schuweiler lists 4 variations.  This is variation (A)

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Posted by JonEddy on Wednesday, February 12, 2020 4:45 PM

Northwoods, is this from your collection? It's in very nice shape! I really like the Hopper car but unfortunately they're always really expensive when I see them listed anywhere for sale.

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Posted by JonEddy on Wednesday, February 12, 2020 11:21 PM

Northwoods Flyer
 New Haven Style The New Haven was the second style introduced, in 1927. The numbers for this style include 4643, 4644, 4644 R/C 4653, 4654, 4684, 4743, 4753. I have several of these in my collection.

Northwoods Flyer what is the little "pole" that sticks out next to the door on one end of some of the New Haven style Electrics engines? I have seen a few on eBay that have this but my 4743 and 4644 don't. I thought it might be the reversing mechanism like my 4694 steam engine has in the boiler area but I have seen them with this pole and the manual switch on top too.

     Jon

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Thursday, February 13, 2020 9:10 AM

JonEddy

 

 
Northwoods Flyer
 New Haven Style The New Haven was the second style introduced, in 1927. The numbers for this style include 4643, 4644, 4644 R/C 4653, 4654, 4684, 4743, 4753. I have several of these in my collection.

 

Northwoods Flyer what is the little "pole" that sticks out next to the door on one end of some of the New Haven style Electrics engines? I have seen a few on eBay that have this but my 4743 and 4644 don't. I thought it might be the reversing mechanism like my 4694 steam engine has in the boiler area but I have seen them with this pole and the manual switch on top too.

     Jon

 

 

 It sounds like a lockout lever for the engines that have auto-reverse.

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Posted by JonEddy on Thursday, February 13, 2020 10:39 AM

Nationwidelines
It sounds like a lockout lever for the engines that have auto-reverse.

Why would there be a manual switch on top if it has auto reverse? Here is an example of one I saw on eBay, this one doesn't have the engine # plate either. I'm just curious about what it is, I'm not buying it. Wink

https://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Flyer-Std-Gauge-Vintage-Tinplate-0-4-0-Electric-Locomotive/392633881828

    Jon

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Thursday, February 13, 2020 12:08 PM

JonEddy,

I assume that this is the type of lever that you are referring to:

I went through the photos of my wide gauge engines and I believe that this is the only engine that I have with the rod that you describe.  I agree with NationWideLines; I believe it is the lock out lever.

The hopper car above is a recent addition to my collection.  They do tend to be less common, not always in the best of condition, and usually relatively expensive.

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Posted by JonEddy on Thursday, February 13, 2020 12:38 PM
Northwoods, that is what I was talking about. I saw a 4684 on ebay that had that style of lever but I've seen another style as well. Jon
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Tuesday, February 18, 2020 1:10 PM

Wide Gauge

4017 Sand Car 

1928 -1936 (I suspect 1931-1936 because of grey rigid trucks with journals)

 

The closest that I can come to identifying this car is a combination of Schuweiler's version (E) and (F).

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Posted by JonEddy on Tuesday, February 18, 2020 2:23 PM

This is what mine look like. The first one is the same as yours I believe.

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