BaltACD People go to restaurants to eat. People get on trains to go between A & Z or someplace in between. Eating is a secondary consideration.
People go to restaurants to eat.
People get on trains to go between A & Z or someplace in between. Eating is a secondary consideration.
Yup that is what I said above too. Exception being Long Distance Trains.
Definitely. When you consider that most Amtrak passengers are on trains in the NEC and other <300 mile corridors, dining services become almost irrelevant.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
CMStPnP Here is an article from the BBC on the Bristish experience.
Jan. 2015. It says: "£65 for a three-course meal including wine" In 2015 that = $97.92. You really think that price structure would work on Amtrak?
Note the prices being charged here and that a private contractor is providing the service:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/features/restaurateur-mitch-tonks-has-given-the-great-western-pullman-dining-car-a-makeover-9641279.html
Also, note the private contractor wisely says he does not know if it will be profitable or not. It would be dumb to indicate that this early in the experiment. I also don't know what the ridership is on these trains or the patronage of the service.
BaltACD The problem in defining food service on a train is that certain people believe that it is a full service restaurent with a captive audience and can turn a profit on the food sales alone. It's not. It is a service. Food service is a convience that passengers may or may not avail themselves of. Diners never turned profits in the Golden Days of railroad passenger operation and they won't now. Diners existed then to make the journey pleasant and hopefully enjoyable for the passenger and if the journey was pleasant and enjoyable enough the passenger may use the train service again. Meal service on airplanes was provided for the same purpose and with the same expectations of not turning a profit on its own. Since the airlines are now charging $25 per check bag and a charge for anything else a passenger may desire, I am surprised they aren't charging $5 for the bag of peanuts, $10 for the half glass of soft drink and $25 for a 'hard' drink.
The problem in defining food service on a train is that certain people believe that it is a full service restaurent with a captive audience and can turn a profit on the food sales alone. It's not. It is a service.
Food service is a convience that passengers may or may not avail themselves of. Diners never turned profits in the Golden Days of railroad passenger operation and they won't now. Diners existed then to make the journey pleasant and hopefully enjoyable for the passenger and if the journey was pleasant and enjoyable enough the passenger may use the train service again.
Meal service on airplanes was provided for the same purpose and with the same expectations of not turning a profit on its own. Since the airlines are now charging $25 per check bag and a charge for anything else a passenger may desire, I am surprised they aren't charging $5 for the bag of peanuts, $10 for the half glass of soft drink and $25 for a 'hard' drink.
I would say both yes and no. Because I always think blanket statements can't be true all the time. So while I might believe that the majority of dining cars lost money. I have a hard time believing on heaviily patronized runs with 600 passengers or more the dining car always lost money. Here is an article from the BBC on the Bristish experience. And if you read it, a former employee of the Great Western states the common notion that all dining cars in the past lost money is absolute nonsense in his experience........
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30207795
Dining cars making money or not depends on patronage of the service and how fast you can pump clients in and out (seats available during dinner service times). Airlines unfortunately are constrained by limits to seating AND limited stops along the route. Passenger trains have a little more flexibility there.
So in my view a few variables on dining car service:
1. Fast and efficient service means you free up more seats to sell for a meal time. It is challenging to move people out of their booths without conveying a rushed atmosphere......agree to that BUT it can be accomplished in some cases with training and professionalism.
2. Heavy patronage on a train running over meal time, great food and great service will result in return passengers to the dining car as well as the train. Not everyone in a dining car wants to sit there for 1.5 to 2 hours a seating. Myself, I would rather be in and out in 30-40 min if I can.
3. Mentioned the issues with Amtrak dining car service ad nasuem in these forums....even if all their issues were fixed on Amtrak. I very much doubt any Amtrak LD train will break even on the Diner because the train patronage is so low. So it's a moot point to even look at Amtrak as any kind of example here. Even on NEC trains, what is the average time a passenger is on board? Maybe 2-3 hours at most, and most have much better ideas in their mind to eat off the train then on it. You might get a few bistro hits among coach but most of them will probably eat before they get on the train or eat after they get off. I know given Amtraks current menu offerings I would rather eat off board then on board. However I am trapped on the Texas Eagle when I ride it. Maybe not we'll see if I can call for carryout the next trip.
One other comment, it would be really nice if you could order an after dinner drink in the Dining Car on Amtrak (something like a Cream De Mint) and retreat with it back to your sleeping car compartment or lounge car without having to wait an additional 30-40 min after ordering the drink to get your CC swiped again. It's just yet another missing service that Amtrak would be challenged to provide.
Well said, Balt. I have no idea as to how many of our readers ahve a memory of the article in Trains back in the fifties which told of the woes of diner service. That has stuck with me over the years; the gist of it was that food service on passenger trains is a money-losing proposition, no matter how hard you try to reduce your cost of providng the service.
Perhaps the best way is for passengers to bring their own food and have the engine crew cook it on the engine (a la food service on the Peoria train in its last gasp of service)? Of course, it was that the regular passengers and the crews had formed a friendship.
Johnny
081552 I was at Edinburgh's Waverley Station last Saturday morning watching the morning train departures. Around 7:30 a.m. staff rolled out the food trolleys for the local Scotrail trains. Do we need a full Amcafes on short-distance trains? Posting something about food and trains is about as incendiary as you can get!
I was at Edinburgh's Waverley Station last Saturday morning watching the morning train departures. Around 7:30 a.m. staff rolled out the food trolleys for the local Scotrail trains.
Do we need a full Amcafes on short-distance trains?
Posting something about food and trains is about as incendiary as you can get!
I think on the Pere Marquette they brought back the vending machine car from years past..........I am not sure if it still runs on that route but below is a picture.
http://www.trainweb.com/accommod/automat.html
Otherwise, I think the general rule of thumb is 4 hours or longer trip they usually have at least a Cafe Car. They attempted the food service trolleys on Chicago to Milwaukee which is a 90 min trip each way but Amtrak found they could not make a profit paying someone $35-40,000 a year (guessing at Salary) selling largely 75 cent candy bars, coffee and soda on a 90 min run with the other overhead costs of the service added in. From my observation the more expensive fare did not move that well from the trolley cart, it the the mostly cheaper, I need something to hold me over items. PLUS, they did not sell alcholic drinks from the trolley cart that I observed. All together I think they paid for 4 people to push a trolley cart on the Chicago-Milwaukee service could have been 3 but it was definitely more than 2.......they lost close to half a million dollars a year on the trolley service on that corridor.
So happy. I tried it & got "Server Error" & no other info. That means I don't have to wade into this quicksand again. I can die a happy man.
Tom
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