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Acela-2 procurement

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Posted by JOHN MEHRLING on Tuesday, August 2, 2016 6:23 PM

Going back to the first item, when did the Amtrak BoD meet?  Was the issue of a contract taken up?

Or is the meeting in the future?  Anyone know the date?

 

 

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, August 2, 2016 4:09 PM

schlimm
Maybe if the corridor's cat and power supply were up-to-date and more reliable, there would be fewer delays?
 
 

 
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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, August 2, 2016 12:29 PM

rrlineman
ACELA...Amtrak Customers Expect Late Arrivals...... 40 yrs this month
 

Maybe if the corridor's cat and power supply were up-to-date and more reliable, there would be fewer delays?
http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/743/t/219281.aspx

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Posted by Alan Follett on Tuesday, August 2, 2016 9:43 AM

rrlineman
ACELA...Amtrak Customers Expect Late Arrivals...... 40 yrs this month
 

 

I was going to call your retronym a base canard, but I see from the Amtrak website that Acela's on-time record in June 2016 was indeed a mediocre 81.1%.

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, August 2, 2016 8:32 AM

40 years?  Acela revenue service started Dec. 11, 2000. Amtrak started May 1, 1971.

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Posted by rrlineman on Tuesday, August 2, 2016 6:54 AM
ACELA...Amtrak Customers Expect Late Arrivals...... 40 yrs this month
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Posted by schlimm on Monday, August 1, 2016 6:46 PM

Buslist
I'm curious about the F125 order, last I heard ther were 20 firm and 20 options for LA, are there more?

Clarification noted.

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Posted by Buslist on Monday, August 1, 2016 3:00 PM

schlimm

Let's see, the Viewliner II order of 130 cars is for where?  The new bilevels are for? The F 125s are for where? The Siemens Chargers are for?

 

Although I generally agree with the point of your post, there is some clarification required. Remember the bi levels and the chargers are a state purchase not an Amtrak one and ATK did not push for these. Amtrak did participate in the specification process as they will be operating them for the most part. (My friends at Amtrak would much rather have the Talgos on the Chicago Detroit service given all the curves on the east end.) Amtrak does have an option for some Chargers, both corridor and long distance (bigger fuel tanks) but I haven't heard that they exercised any of this option.

 

I'm curious about the F125 order, last I heard ther were 20 firm and 20 options for LA, are there more?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, August 1, 2016 1:51 PM

Deggesty
By the way, it would be wonderful to have even one dome car (in a dome, you can see ahead and to the rear as well as to the sides and up) on the CZ.
 

 
The only problem would be how to include a dome in an existing Superliner consist.
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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Monday, August 1, 2016 1:29 PM

I have ridden in a dome with a bar in the middle.  I would pay extra for those seats.

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, August 1, 2016 1:26 PM

Dakguy201

 

 
daveklepper

I DOUBT THAT A TEENAGER SITTING IN THE FRONT SEAAT OF A DOME WOULD BE BORED.   OF COURSE SCENERY LIKE THAT BETWEEN SALAT LAKE CITY AND DENVER CAN HELP.   AND THERE IS NO REASON FOR NOT TAKING ALONG HIS PC AND CELL PHONE FOR THE UNINTERESTING PORTIONS OF THE JOURNEY.

 

 

 
Between Denver and Salt Lake a large portion of the route is along the Colorado River.  In season, the river is used for numerous floating/rafting/white water experiences.  It is now the local custom of those on the river to moon the train as it goes by.  That might be of some interest to the teenagers. 
 

I must have missed the season.

By the way, it would be wonderful to have even one dome car (in a dome, you can see ahead and to the rear as well as to the sides and up) on the CZ.

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Posted by Dakguy201 on Monday, August 1, 2016 12:16 PM

daveklepper

I DOUBT THAT A TEENAGER SITTING IN THE FRONT SEAAT OF A DOME WOULD BE BORED.   OF COURSE SCENERY LIKE THAT BETWEEN SALAT LAKE CITY AND DENVER CAN HELP.   AND THERE IS NO REASON FOR NOT TAKING ALONG HIS PC AND CELL PHONE FOR THE UNINTERESTING PORTIONS OF THE JOURNEY.

 

 
Between Denver and Salt Lake a large portion of the route is along the Colorado River.  In season, the river is used for numerous floating/rafting/white water experiences.  It is now the local custom of those on the river to moon the train as it goes by.  That might be of some interest to the teenagers. 
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Posted by schlimm on Monday, August 1, 2016 11:59 AM

daveklepper

I DOUBT THAT A TEENAGER SITTING IN THE FRONT SEAAT OF A DOME WOULD BE BORED.   OF COURSE SCENERY LIKE THAT BETWEEN SALAT LAKE CITY AND DENVER CAN HELP.   AND THERE IS NO REASON FOR NOT TAKING ALONG HIS PC AND CELL PHONE FOR THE UNINTERESTING PORTIONS OF THE JOURNEY.

 

Maybe they shouldn't be bored, but most tweens, teens and twenty-somethings might have a look for about 20 minutes at the most.  Sitting on an LD train 20-40 hours would be like a prison sentence for many.  Watch them (in US).  Even in groups, they are often texting -- including each other -- rather than conversing.  Changing times!

What dome cars?  The only one left is the rarely used ex-GN Ocean View, a Great Dome car.  Superliner lounges and sightseer lounges are not really domes.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Monday, August 1, 2016 10:16 AM

dakotafred
Nor is it only the kids. On that same trip, I enjoyed a drink or two in the lobby of Chicago's Palmer House taking in the scene. A group of middle-aged and older businessmen were on the adjacent sofas, talking shop. At every lapse in the conversation, as if in response to a radio signal, all pulled phones out their pockets and began clicking away.

On that subject.   Some of that is idiots in todays business world (especially the Sales area) that insist that every email is so important you should read each one as it comes in no matter when.    I told one of the sales Execs at the firm I'm only checking Email twice a day and only during business hours and if he has something more urgent to call or text me.     He flew into a rage at that but my boss backed me up.      Bottom lines, some of the constant checking of smart phones are from people too scared to challenge the idiots in the Business world today.      Some Sales people expect everyone to work 24 by 7 because they feel they have to do it themselves.    If I am not explicitly paid for it......it ain't happening.

The Sales Exec I challenged, later left the company in a huff.    He was doing really ignorant other things like scheduling business meetings for Monday mornings at 7:00 a.m. and sending the meeting notice out Sunday night (then would curse about the folks that missed the meeting).    Or else send out a MUST READ Email on Saturday evening.............all the meetings and emails were unnecessary from my point of view and I ignored a lot of them.    No impact on business, only impacted this guys blood pressure.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 1, 2016 5:19 AM

I DOUBT THAT A TEENAGER SITTING IN THE FRONT SEAAT OF A DOME WOULD BE BORED.   OF COURSE SCENERY LIKE THAT BETWEEN SALAT LAKE CITY AND DENVER CAN HELP.   AND THERE IS NO REASON FOR NOT TAKING ALONG HIS PC AND CELL PHONE FOR THE UNINTERESTING PORTIONS OF THE JOURNEY.

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Posted by dakotafred on Sunday, July 31, 2016 5:58 PM

BaltACD

Today's teens will find anything that doesn't have WiFi boring to the max.  Can't play with their phone, they can't have fun.

 

Yah, we are becoming a country of the walking (or, more often, sitting) dead. A couple of years ago, I had a nice hotel room in Iowa City overlooking the Iowa River, where I did my share of spooning a million years ago. "Riverbanking," it was called.

Saw no young couples similarly engaged this time, only singles walking past on the sidewalk with their nose in their Smartphones and cables dangling from their ears. I wonder if reproduction is even part of our future.

Nor is it only the kids. On that same trip, I enjoyed a drink or two in the lobby of Chicago's Palmer House taking in the scene. A group of middle-aged and older businessmen were on the adjacent sofas, talking shop. At every lapse in the conversation, as if in response to a radio signal, all pulled phones out their pockets and began clicking away.

Eventually, the socializing resumed and the phones were put away (temporarily) one by one, with no comment on the interruption. It was like the "lost time" reported by UFO abductees.  

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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, July 31, 2016 4:13 PM

Today's teens will find anything that doesn't have WiFi boring to the max.  Can't play with their phone, they can't have fun.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, July 31, 2016 2:56 PM

Those anecdotes sound like they occurred years ago.  Also, number 1, with a railfan as an uncle, those kids would have had more interest and number 2, the other kids got to see and ride on a restored (sort of) steam engine excursion.   LD service is a completely different animal.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 31, 2016 1:52 PM

In the first place, the teenager would not ask his paents for such a graduation present if he or she did not expect to enjoy the experience.  And in the second place, I did have nephews and neicces who were teenagers, and took trips with several of them.   More recently, just before Aliya, when doing acoustical work on the Scranton Roman Catholic Catheddral, I tppl twp of Rabbi ABraham Carp's two sons on a Steamtown train ride (still using one of the Canadian steam locos at the time, I think a CPR Pacific, if I remember), and they really would have liked the ride to be much longer.  Amusingly, the conductor recognized mje and asked: When did you get married?  So I had to explain that the kids were not mine.  The Archbisihop had arranged for me to stay with the rabbi. 

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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, July 31, 2016 11:44 AM

daveklepper

The teenager would not find it boring if I were riding along with him or her.  I am just using that as an example.  There is the real wounded vet who goes from Alberquerque NM to Dallas and return once each year to visit family, and enjoys the trip, via Chicago yet, and would not make the trip if it were not for Amtrak and the handicapped room on Superliner sleepers.  The whole country pays taxes to subsidize Amtrak.  So small towns along the Empire Builder rout, etc. want their train subsidized if lots of trains are beingi subsidized in the corredors.  By my standards, LDs as at they exist are part of American fair play.

 

I doubt if your presence would matter.  Amtrak LD service is heavily subsidized/underpriced already.  It is getting new Viewliner passenger cars. Single-level cars would be far more accessible than Superliners.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 31, 2016 11:19 AM

The teenager would not find it boring if I were riding along with him or her.  I am just using that as an example.  There is the real wounded vet who goes from Alberquerque NM to Dallas and return once each year to visit family, and enjoys the trip, via Chicago yet, and would not make the trip if it were not for Amtrak and the handicapped room on Superliner sleepers.  The whole country pays taxes to subsidize Amtrak.  So small towns along the Empire Builder rout, etc. want their train subsidized if lots of trains are beingi subsidized in the corredors.  By my standards, LDs as at they exist are part of American fair play.

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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, July 31, 2016 8:55 AM

daveklepper

Schlimm, you argument makes sense from one poiht of view.  But there is another.  Most corridor passengers, including the NEC, are repaeat riders, using the same sevice at least several times a year to even every weekend or every weekday.  If you could possibly analyze the ridership on a per-citizen basis, I think you would find the comparison movre faborable to the LDs than number of journeys or even number of jurneys times each one's mileage.

In other words, for North America's future, the teenager who gets a graduatuib oresebt if a transcontinental rail trip may be just as ijmportant as the Philly-MY Amtrak computer, with the former using the service once during the year and the latter using it about 5q00 times.

 

I see your point.  But ridership is ridership.  Amtrak is to provide a reliable service for the most patrons.  The NEC has far more riders than LD trains.  If some use it weekly, it shows how essential it is.  On the other hand, most of today's teens would find a graduation train ride boring and unacceptable.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, July 31, 2016 4:22 AM

Schlimm, you argument makes sense from one poiht of view.  But there is another.  Most corridor passengers, including the NEC, are repaeat riders, using the same sevice at least several times a year to even every weekend or every weekday.  If you could possibly analyze the ridership on a per-citizen basis, I think you would find the comparison movre faborable to the LDs than number of journeys or even number of jurneys times each one's mileage.

In other words, for North America's future, the teenager who gets a graduatuib oresebt if a transcontinental rail trip may be just as ijmportant as the Philly-MY Amtrak computer, with the former using the service once during the year and the latter using it about 5q00 times.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, July 29, 2016 5:53 PM

blue streak 1
Beg to differ.  Please read Amtrak's desire to get more passenger cars on  the link below.  Pages 22 - 28 .  Page 28 especially important as it lists both Amfleet supplements ( V-2 or 3s ? ) and bi-level supplements. Plus more locos. 

Thats all nice and I am pretty confident most of it never made it in front of Congress graphically or verbally.    You need Boardman to push for it constantly.

Check this out from 2011...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeSfVrBW180

He mentions 2 trains are money losers (Sunset and Cardinal).    Congressman asks him about shutting down those to trains and Boardman answers with the cost to shutdown the whole LD system (which I have to say I would get a second and independent opinion on).

Listen to this......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og6KxJTe5Nc

So here he is in front of Congress talking about the 2012 budget.....

https://www.c-span.org/video/?298899-1/amtrak-2012-budget

Nothing about new LD equipment in any of the testimony that I could locate except for the viewliner 2 cars that were ordered.   Why he didn't mention downstream needs for larger orders is anyones guess.

Also note that Rep Carter (R-TX) rode the Amtrak LD services from Austin, TX to DC before this hearing and comments on it.    Some forum members think that Congress people making decisions never have ridden Amtrak.

 Another interesting item, Boardman explains Amtrak Fare philosophy, Rep Carter asks why it is so low and why they do not raise fares.    Boardman responds that Amtrak uses a formula to capture as much revenue with what they charge as possible without creating a revenue loss via a vis their public subsidy (which I suspect their formula is incorrect).    However it explains why they undercharge in the Diner, Sleeping Car and sometimes in the Coach and why some subsidized corridor trains do not use yield management on ticket prices.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, July 29, 2016 5:29 PM

CMStPnP
Additionally, Amtrak management is not identifying a large order of new equipment as a vital need, instead with the last order they just said basically, it would be nice if we could fill in some of the gaps of our existing equipment.    That was it.    

Beg to differ.  Please read Amtrak's desire to get more passenger cars on  the link below.  Pages 22 - 28 .  Page 28 especially important as it lists both Amfleet supplements ( V-2 or 3s ? ) and bi-level supplements. Plus more locos.  Remember Amtrak is still involved in the complex negotiations for Acela-2s and IMO that is probably streaching available engineering talent to the breaking point.  Have wondered if lack of engineering personel is slowing the V-2 deliveries.  Will some talent be able to go to other procurements once Acela-2 contract signed who knows ?  Hiring for the short term probably is not considered wise ?

https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/844/40/FY16-Business-Plan-FY17-Budget-Justification-FY-16-20-Five-Year-Financial-Plan.pdf

 

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Posted by CMStPnP on Friday, July 29, 2016 11:17 AM

conrailman
Where is New Engines for the LD trains?? The F125 is Short line trains, not the LD trains. Yes little 130 Viewliners car order, Amtrak needs more Viewliners cars than 130 cars. Also where Superliners New Car order at??

OK well first, lets take a trip down memory lane here with the first Superliner order, do you remember what happened prior to the Carter administration finally caving into Amtrak on that order?

We had two or three successive winters that were classified as severe that not only increased the deadlines of heritage equipment but also you had Grandma and Grandpa writing into Congress as well as news stories in prominent news publications about Amtrak passenger cars loosing heat in sub-zero weather, losing lights, losing Air Conditioning in extremely hot weather and for good measure it seemed that Amtrak made sure every train consist had at least one bad order car in it that delayed the train somewhere on the trip.     The story going out was that Amtrak LD was falling apart because of lack of equipment or worn out equipment failing PLUS we had the Amtrak President pleading with Congress for newer and more standardized equipment.     The memories of 1974-1977 led to three successive equipment orders....... Amfleet I, Superliner I and Amfleet II.   

Right now the equipment is old but it is not failing at the rate of 1974-1977.   Additionally, Amtrak management is not identifying a large order of new equipment as a vital need, instead with the last order they just said basically, it would be nice if we could fill in some of the gaps of our existing equipment.    That was it.    They had over $10 Billion they could have potentially tapped with a decent business case before Congress but they choose instead to just ask for a few more cars in specific categories.     So missed opportunity by Amtrak.

We'll have to see who is elected what the future brings.   I am an optimist though and believe that if either candidate is elected, Amtrak will be looked upon favorably, I can't say what will happen to the LD network but the Corridors and NEC will expand and thrive more than likely.     As I stated in a previous post though.   Amtrak management could at least take a rather trivial step here to demonstrate that it is also interested in reducing it's subsidy by cutting the Sunset Limited and Cardinal and using the savings for those two in more productive areas.    It would be a rather small move on Amtraks part but it would demonstrate there might be some management in Amtrak that is worth saving.

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Posted by conrailman on Friday, July 29, 2016 10:23 AM

schlimm

Let's see, the Viewliner II order of 130 cars is for where?  The new bilevels are for? The F 125s are for where? The Siemens Chargers are for?

 

Where is New Engines for the LD trains?? The F125 is Short line trains, not the LD trains. Yes little 130 Viewliners car order, Amtrak needs more Viewliners cars than 130 cars. Also where Superliners New Car order at??

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Posted by schlimm on Friday, July 29, 2016 9:04 AM

Let's see, the Viewliner II order of 130 cars is for where?  The new bilevels are for? The F 125s are for where? The Siemens Chargers are for?

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Posted by conrailman on Thursday, July 28, 2016 11:47 PM

No, Not Everything should be for NEC all the time. Spend some money on the LD trains with Superliner car order and more Viewliners cars too. Plus need to replace the P42 engines on the LD trains with New Power. That i am saying spend more money outside the NEC for change.My 2 Cents

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