Take the following for what it is worth. Maybe in a week or two there will be a contract between Alstom and Amtrak ?
http://www.eveningtribune.com/news/20160725/alstom-amtrak-come-to-terms-on-25-billion-deal
And of course Schuner will not be upstaged and releases a very "short" title release !
https://www.schumer.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/schumer-announces-final-hurdles-have-been-cleared-amtrak-board-will-award-hornells-alstom-start-of-25-billion-program-to-build-safer-next-generation-high-speed-trains-senator-says-project-will-create-750-jobs-including-400-direct-manufacturing-jobs-at-alstom-in-hornell
"On Monday morning..." Wow! Chuck the shmuck speaks and it's not on a Sunday.
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
Amtrak needs New Superliner Car order first, not Acela trainset again. Another NEC toy. Everything in NEC, help out LD trains with new cars and new engines for LD trains.
conrailman Amtrak needs New Superliner Car order first, not Acela trainset again. Another NEC toy. Everything in NEC, help out LD trains with new cars and new engines for LD trains.
Acelas are getting up there in age. It is time to start thinking about a replacement. And the NEC is not a toy. It's real passenger railroading serving many people. There are many that believe long distance trains are the expensive toys.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Amtrak should be pushing hard for discontinuance of the Sunset Limited and Cardinal at a minimum (bottom two performing trains) and redirect the money and equipment savings from running those two trains into something else.
CMStPnP conrailman Amtrak needs New Superliner Car order first, not Acela trainset again. Another NEC toy. Everything in NEC, help out LD trains with new cars and new engines for LD trains. Amtrak should be pushing hard for discontinuance of the Sunset Limited and Cardinal at a minimum (bottom two performing trains) and redirect the money and equipment savings from running those two trains into something else.
Everything is for NEC Toys, and nothing outside the NEC, maybe little 130 car Viewliners car order. We need more than 130 little car order.
In April, 2016 the long distance services had 351,339 passengers:13.8% ; State-supported corridors 1,161,154: 45.7%; the NEC (Acela and regional) 1,027,230: 40.5%. The total was 2,539,723. But in its brilliance, a minor and shrinking section of Amtrak, gets a multi-car order for new equipment, much of which (baggage cars) does not even carry passengers. Last I looked, Amtrak's mission is to carry passengers, and 86% of it is getting short shrift.
The Acela trains have been running high mileage for 16 years, they carry a large share of Amtrak's pasengers and generate an above-the-rails surplus that has been used to subsidize LD serivice.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
The reality is if we are going to run the current Amtrak schedule additional viewliners, super liners and Acela train sets need to be ordered.
If not the Acela trains need to be the first priority. LD trains need to be reduced and equipment reallocated.
ROBERT WILLISONIf not the Acela trains need to be the first priority. LD trains need to be reduced and equipment reallocated.
Unfortunately, like the testimony in front of Rep Mica, this is once again a matter of Amtrak management leadership. Amtrak management has not made the case for refreshing the LD fleet. Instead they have made the case that the NEC needs massive investment to remain in steady state. So Congress here is acting on the priority set by Amtrak management. Keep the NEC afloat at all costs including deemphasizing or shedding the LD trains.
So in that environment that Amtrak created they should reduce the LD train running cost (and there is significant costs that can be cut without too much damage to the National Network) and lower the future Amtrak subsidy for LD trains.
If it was me I would cut the Sunset Limited and Cardinal. Use the equipment and try to get state subsidy funds from the states to run new trains using that equipment that have a better return on passenger haulage than the Sunset Limited or Cardinal did.......which should not be too difficult. Pehaps even use the equipment to ramp up Amtraks for-profit Charter business (like the seasonal Denver Ski Train) which it has talked about but never implemented.
I think I would also raise prices on Dining Car fare as well as Sleeping Car accomodations, place all ticket sales under yield management, attempt once again to get cost sharing on the NEC to more equitable levels.
CMStPnP ROBERT WILLISON If not the Acela trains need to be the first priority. LD trains need to be reduced and equipment reallocated. Unfortunately, like the testimony in front of Rep Mica, this is once again a matter of Amtrak management leadership. Amtrak management has not made the case for refreshing the LD fleet. Instead they have made the case that the NEC needs massive investment to remain in steady state. So Congress here is acting on the priority set by Amtrak management. Keep the NEC afloat at all costs including deemphasizing or shedding the LD trains. So in that environment that Amtrak created they should reduce the LD train running cost (and there is significant costs that can be cut without too much damage to the National Network) and lower the future Amtrak subsidy for LD trains. If it was me I would cut the Sunset Limited and Cardinal. Use the equipment and try to get state subsidy funds from the states to run new trains using that equipment that have a better return on passenger haulage than the Sunset Limited or Cardinal did.......which should not be too difficult. Pehaps even use the equipment to ramp up Amtraks for-profit Charter business (like the seasonal Denver Ski Train) which it has talked about but never implemented. I think I would also raise prices on Dining Car fare as well as Sleeping Car accomodations, place all ticket sales under yield management, attempt once again to get cost sharing on the NEC to more equitable levels.
ROBERT WILLISON If not the Acela trains need to be the first priority. LD trains need to be reduced and equipment reallocated.
Agreed. Perhaps it's not too late to change some of the baggage and dining and sleeper VIEWLINER II cars still being made into revenue-producing coaches. Or rebuild some Amfleet I's, as Don Oltmann has suggested in the past.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
JPS1 In 2015 Northeast Corridor (NEC) trains carried 37.9 per cent of Amtrak’s total passengers and accounted for 54.8 per cent of its ticket revenues. The Acela carried 29.7 per cent of the NEC passengers and brought in 48.8 per cent of the NEC ticket revenues. The Acela’s carried 11.2 per cent of Amtrak’s passengers and were responsible for 26.8 per cent of its ticket revenues. The NEC’s contribution before capital charges was $457.6 million. The Acela’s contributed 62.9 per cent - $287.8 million - of this number. On the same basis the State Supported trains lost $113.7 million before the adjustment for state capital payments. The long distance trains lost $514 million. A significant percentage of Amtrak’s capital charges probably were/are attributable to the infrastructure upgrades that were made in the NEC for or mostly for the Acela’s. Amtrak claims that it cannot accurately allocate the capital charges, so it is impossible for an outsider to know how much the Acela, NEC trains, State Supported trains, and Long Distance trains earn or lose on a fully allocated basis. If Amtrak were managed like a competitive business, it would focus its resources on the NEC, which is what management has been proposing, I think. It is reasonably close to becoming at least a breakeven operation. Diluting its focus is a recipe for business failure, which has been its problem or one of them since the get go. If the other two segments are critical for the wellbeing of the U.S. transportation system, they should be spun off and the states should support them as vital regional systems. If the long distance equipment needs to be replaced, as some advocate, where would Amtrak get the money is an important question?
Also, I will add that the Acela has increased Amtrak's passenger market share in the NEC significantly. Look at what the % was that traveled by train in the NEC prior to the Acela and then look again after the Acela went into service. Significant % change and I wish I had the percentages in front of me or easily found via Google.
However, one trainset with that large of impact, should be priority #1 with investment. Also, as I understand it, current Acela has a lower seating capacity so buying the higher capacity trains is a no-brainer when they are running sold out in a lot of cases. Last time I was on the NEC in Philadelphia I could not buy an Acela ticket unless it was at least 6-8 hours in advance because the trains that departed earlier were sold out heading to D.C.
As for the NEC infrastructure, Amtrak should get with the Feds and use Eminent domain to obtain the entire NEC under it's ownership Boston to Washington. This piecemeal ownership crap is also hurting time keeping in some cases. Express trains should have priority and Commutter trains should have less priority. I know this last suggestion will generate heated argument but C'mon is the NEC ever going to be a trully NATIONAL HSR rail segment or should we leave the patchwork of ownership in place and let the arguments and fighting over whose train moves first continue.
CMStPnPAs for the NEC infrastructure, Amtrak should get with the Feds and use Eminent domain to obtain the entire NEC under it's ownership Boston to Washington.
Yep. And for the 2nd corridor as well.
CMStPnP As for the NEC infrastructure, Amtrak should get with the Feds and use Eminent domain to obtain the entire NEC under it's ownership Boston to Washington.
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And what do you propose as a source of money to make this acquisition?
CSSHEGEWISCHAnd what do you propose as a source of money to make this acquisition?
Since the property is already publicly owned and this is a change in ownership for the public good with only a modification to a change of use by the past owner. I would imagine that a Court would rule the compensation could be held to a fairly low level.........IF any compensation was required at all.
As the valuation of all the Big 6's ROWs is considerably less than some believe, stretches of the NEC currently held by governmental units like MNRR and others would probably be a simple transfer.
The NEC needs 100 billions plus dollars in work to done, with Tunnels, Bridges, and Track needed to replace. That real Money Pit called the NEC, not LD trains or short line trains. plus this new Trainsets being order for the NEC again.
conrailman The NEC needs 100 billions plus dollars in work to done, with Tunnels, Bridges, and Track needed to replace. That real Money Pit called the NEC, not LD trains or short line trains. plus this new Trainsets being order for the NEC again.
It is absolutely essential work, while LD services are largely minor, irrelevant and redundant.
Maybe cost savings can be achieved by outsourcing to contractors with more experience in HSR ROWs?
Maybe Amtrak should be worried about LD trains and Short line trains and Sale the NEC for 100 Billion dollars or 200 Billion Dollars??
And who would buy it?
conrailman Maybe Amtrak should be worried about LD trains and Short line trains and Sale the NEC for 100 Billion dollars or 200 Billion Dollars??
Yes, that is the ticket to the future, sell the aspects of your business that brings in most of your income to save the aspects the bring in the least, then invest the proceeds of the sale into your money losing operations.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
It's the same as the Penn Central question.
If your in charge and saw the passenger transportation heart of the Northeastern Economy of the United States having a heart attack are you going to invest in it OR are you going to choose the LD trains which could be eliminated without much of anyone noticing?
Futher, it does not have to be taxpayer money invested. We have large insurance companies and pension funds with trillions of dollars looking for investment vehicles where they can earn a steady return in exchange for a market interest rate and a mild return on investment.
Just need a little legislative / investment imagination here and that $100 Billion becomes pretty easy to reach. Look how fast Congress fixed the Box Car shortage in the 1980's with just a few pen strokes.........did they spend taxpayer money there?
It's ironic (at least) that a person called conrailman objects to the NEC infrastucture getting federal funding, probably bonds. Conrail (and successors) would not exist if the government hadn't come up with billions to bail out and rebuild.
No, Not Everything should be for NEC all the time. Spend some money on the LD trains with Superliner car order and more Viewliners cars too. Plus need to replace the P42 engines on the LD trains with New Power. That i am saying spend more money outside the NEC for change.
Let's see, the Viewliner II order of 130 cars is for where? The new bilevels are for? The F 125s are for where? The Siemens Chargers are for?
schlimm Let's see, the Viewliner II order of 130 cars is for where? The new bilevels are for? The F 125s are for where? The Siemens Chargers are for?
Where is New Engines for the LD trains?? The F125 is Short line trains, not the LD trains. Yes little 130 Viewliners car order, Amtrak needs more Viewliners cars than 130 cars. Also where Superliners New Car order at??
conrailmanWhere is New Engines for the LD trains?? The F125 is Short line trains, not the LD trains. Yes little 130 Viewliners car order, Amtrak needs more Viewliners cars than 130 cars. Also where Superliners New Car order at??
OK well first, lets take a trip down memory lane here with the first Superliner order, do you remember what happened prior to the Carter administration finally caving into Amtrak on that order?
We had two or three successive winters that were classified as severe that not only increased the deadlines of heritage equipment but also you had Grandma and Grandpa writing into Congress as well as news stories in prominent news publications about Amtrak passenger cars loosing heat in sub-zero weather, losing lights, losing Air Conditioning in extremely hot weather and for good measure it seemed that Amtrak made sure every train consist had at least one bad order car in it that delayed the train somewhere on the trip. The story going out was that Amtrak LD was falling apart because of lack of equipment or worn out equipment failing PLUS we had the Amtrak President pleading with Congress for newer and more standardized equipment. The memories of 1974-1977 led to three successive equipment orders....... Amfleet I, Superliner I and Amfleet II.
Right now the equipment is old but it is not failing at the rate of 1974-1977. Additionally, Amtrak management is not identifying a large order of new equipment as a vital need, instead with the last order they just said basically, it would be nice if we could fill in some of the gaps of our existing equipment. That was it. They had over $10 Billion they could have potentially tapped with a decent business case before Congress but they choose instead to just ask for a few more cars in specific categories. So missed opportunity by Amtrak.
We'll have to see who is elected what the future brings. I am an optimist though and believe that if either candidate is elected, Amtrak will be looked upon favorably, I can't say what will happen to the LD network but the Corridors and NEC will expand and thrive more than likely. As I stated in a previous post though. Amtrak management could at least take a rather trivial step here to demonstrate that it is also interested in reducing it's subsidy by cutting the Sunset Limited and Cardinal and using the savings for those two in more productive areas. It would be a rather small move on Amtraks part but it would demonstrate there might be some management in Amtrak that is worth saving.
CMStPnP Additionally, Amtrak management is not identifying a large order of new equipment as a vital need, instead with the last order they just said basically, it would be nice if we could fill in some of the gaps of our existing equipment. That was it.
Beg to differ. Please read Amtrak's desire to get more passenger cars on the link below. Pages 22 - 28 . Page 28 especially important as it lists both Amfleet supplements ( V-2 or 3s ? ) and bi-level supplements. Plus more locos. Remember Amtrak is still involved in the complex negotiations for Acela-2s and IMO that is probably streaching available engineering talent to the breaking point. Have wondered if lack of engineering personel is slowing the V-2 deliveries. Will some talent be able to go to other procurements once Acela-2 contract signed who knows ? Hiring for the short term probably is not considered wise ?
https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/844/40/FY16-Business-Plan-FY17-Budget-Justification-FY-16-20-Five-Year-Financial-Plan.pdf
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