It's ironic (at least) that a person called conrailman objects to the NEC infrastucture getting federal funding, probably bonds. Conrail (and successors) would not exist if the government hadn't come up with billions to bail out and rebuild.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
conrailman The NEC needs 100 billions plus dollars in work to done, with Tunnels, Bridges, and Track needed to replace. That real Money Pit called the NEC, not LD trains or short line trains. plus this new Trainsets being order for the NEC again.
The NEC needs 100 billions plus dollars in work to done, with Tunnels, Bridges, and Track needed to replace. That real Money Pit called the NEC, not LD trains or short line trains. plus this new Trainsets being order for the NEC again.
It's the same as the Penn Central question.
If your in charge and saw the passenger transportation heart of the Northeastern Economy of the United States having a heart attack are you going to invest in it OR are you going to choose the LD trains which could be eliminated without much of anyone noticing?
Futher, it does not have to be taxpayer money invested. We have large insurance companies and pension funds with trillions of dollars looking for investment vehicles where they can earn a steady return in exchange for a market interest rate and a mild return on investment.
Just need a little legislative / investment imagination here and that $100 Billion becomes pretty easy to reach. Look how fast Congress fixed the Box Car shortage in the 1980's with just a few pen strokes.........did they spend taxpayer money there?
conrailman Maybe Amtrak should be worried about LD trains and Short line trains and Sale the NEC for 100 Billion dollars or 200 Billion Dollars??
Maybe Amtrak should be worried about LD trains and Short line trains and Sale the NEC for 100 Billion dollars or 200 Billion Dollars??
Yes, that is the ticket to the future, sell the aspects of your business that brings in most of your income to save the aspects the bring in the least, then invest the proceeds of the sale into your money losing operations.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
And who would buy it?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
It is absolutely essential work, while LD services are largely minor, irrelevant and redundant.
Maybe cost savings can be achieved by outsourcing to contractors with more experience in HSR ROWs?
As the valuation of all the Big 6's ROWs is considerably less than some believe, stretches of the NEC currently held by governmental units like MNRR and others would probably be a simple transfer.
CSSHEGEWISCHAnd what do you propose as a source of money to make this acquisition?
Since the property is already publicly owned and this is a change in ownership for the public good with only a modification to a change of use by the past owner. I would imagine that a Court would rule the compensation could be held to a fairly low level.........IF any compensation was required at all.
CMStPnP As for the NEC infrastructure, Amtrak should get with the Feds and use Eminent domain to obtain the entire NEC under it's ownership Boston to Washington.
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And what do you propose as a source of money to make this acquisition?
CMStPnPAs for the NEC infrastructure, Amtrak should get with the Feds and use Eminent domain to obtain the entire NEC under it's ownership Boston to Washington.
Yep. And for the 2nd corridor as well.
JPS1 In 2015 Northeast Corridor (NEC) trains carried 37.9 per cent of Amtrak’s total passengers and accounted for 54.8 per cent of its ticket revenues. The Acela carried 29.7 per cent of the NEC passengers and brought in 48.8 per cent of the NEC ticket revenues. The Acela’s carried 11.2 per cent of Amtrak’s passengers and were responsible for 26.8 per cent of its ticket revenues. The NEC’s contribution before capital charges was $457.6 million. The Acela’s contributed 62.9 per cent - $287.8 million - of this number. On the same basis the State Supported trains lost $113.7 million before the adjustment for state capital payments. The long distance trains lost $514 million. A significant percentage of Amtrak’s capital charges probably were/are attributable to the infrastructure upgrades that were made in the NEC for or mostly for the Acela’s. Amtrak claims that it cannot accurately allocate the capital charges, so it is impossible for an outsider to know how much the Acela, NEC trains, State Supported trains, and Long Distance trains earn or lose on a fully allocated basis. If Amtrak were managed like a competitive business, it would focus its resources on the NEC, which is what management has been proposing, I think. It is reasonably close to becoming at least a breakeven operation. Diluting its focus is a recipe for business failure, which has been its problem or one of them since the get go. If the other two segments are critical for the wellbeing of the U.S. transportation system, they should be spun off and the states should support them as vital regional systems. If the long distance equipment needs to be replaced, as some advocate, where would Amtrak get the money is an important question?
Also, I will add that the Acela has increased Amtrak's passenger market share in the NEC significantly. Look at what the % was that traveled by train in the NEC prior to the Acela and then look again after the Acela went into service. Significant % change and I wish I had the percentages in front of me or easily found via Google.
However, one trainset with that large of impact, should be priority #1 with investment. Also, as I understand it, current Acela has a lower seating capacity so buying the higher capacity trains is a no-brainer when they are running sold out in a lot of cases. Last time I was on the NEC in Philadelphia I could not buy an Acela ticket unless it was at least 6-8 hours in advance because the trains that departed earlier were sold out heading to D.C.
As for the NEC infrastructure, Amtrak should get with the Feds and use Eminent domain to obtain the entire NEC under it's ownership Boston to Washington. This piecemeal ownership crap is also hurting time keeping in some cases. Express trains should have priority and Commutter trains should have less priority. I know this last suggestion will generate heated argument but C'mon is the NEC ever going to be a trully NATIONAL HSR rail segment or should we leave the patchwork of ownership in place and let the arguments and fighting over whose train moves first continue.
CMStPnP ROBERT WILLISON If not the Acela trains need to be the first priority. LD trains need to be reduced and equipment reallocated. Unfortunately, like the testimony in front of Rep Mica, this is once again a matter of Amtrak management leadership. Amtrak management has not made the case for refreshing the LD fleet. Instead they have made the case that the NEC needs massive investment to remain in steady state. So Congress here is acting on the priority set by Amtrak management. Keep the NEC afloat at all costs including deemphasizing or shedding the LD trains. So in that environment that Amtrak created they should reduce the LD train running cost (and there is significant costs that can be cut without too much damage to the National Network) and lower the future Amtrak subsidy for LD trains. If it was me I would cut the Sunset Limited and Cardinal. Use the equipment and try to get state subsidy funds from the states to run new trains using that equipment that have a better return on passenger haulage than the Sunset Limited or Cardinal did.......which should not be too difficult. Pehaps even use the equipment to ramp up Amtraks for-profit Charter business (like the seasonal Denver Ski Train) which it has talked about but never implemented. I think I would also raise prices on Dining Car fare as well as Sleeping Car accomodations, place all ticket sales under yield management, attempt once again to get cost sharing on the NEC to more equitable levels.
ROBERT WILLISON If not the Acela trains need to be the first priority. LD trains need to be reduced and equipment reallocated.
Unfortunately, like the testimony in front of Rep Mica, this is once again a matter of Amtrak management leadership. Amtrak management has not made the case for refreshing the LD fleet. Instead they have made the case that the NEC needs massive investment to remain in steady state. So Congress here is acting on the priority set by Amtrak management. Keep the NEC afloat at all costs including deemphasizing or shedding the LD trains.
So in that environment that Amtrak created they should reduce the LD train running cost (and there is significant costs that can be cut without too much damage to the National Network) and lower the future Amtrak subsidy for LD trains.
If it was me I would cut the Sunset Limited and Cardinal. Use the equipment and try to get state subsidy funds from the states to run new trains using that equipment that have a better return on passenger haulage than the Sunset Limited or Cardinal did.......which should not be too difficult. Pehaps even use the equipment to ramp up Amtraks for-profit Charter business (like the seasonal Denver Ski Train) which it has talked about but never implemented.
I think I would also raise prices on Dining Car fare as well as Sleeping Car accomodations, place all ticket sales under yield management, attempt once again to get cost sharing on the NEC to more equitable levels.
Agreed. Perhaps it's not too late to change some of the baggage and dining and sleeper VIEWLINER II cars still being made into revenue-producing coaches. Or rebuild some Amfleet I's, as Don Oltmann has suggested in the past.
ROBERT WILLISONIf not the Acela trains need to be the first priority. LD trains need to be reduced and equipment reallocated.
The reality is if we are going to run the current Amtrak schedule additional viewliners, super liners and Acela train sets need to be ordered.
If not the Acela trains need to be the first priority. LD trains need to be reduced and equipment reallocated.
In April, 2016 the long distance services had 351,339 passengers:13.8% ; State-supported corridors 1,161,154: 45.7%; the NEC (Acela and regional) 1,027,230: 40.5%. The total was 2,539,723. But in its brilliance, a minor and shrinking section of Amtrak, gets a multi-car order for new equipment, much of which (baggage cars) does not even carry passengers. Last I looked, Amtrak's mission is to carry passengers, and 86% of it is getting short shrift.
The Acela trains have been running high mileage for 16 years, they carry a large share of Amtrak's pasengers and generate an above-the-rails surplus that has been used to subsidize LD serivice.
CMStPnP conrailman Amtrak needs New Superliner Car order first, not Acela trainset again. Another NEC toy. Everything in NEC, help out LD trains with new cars and new engines for LD trains. Amtrak should be pushing hard for discontinuance of the Sunset Limited and Cardinal at a minimum (bottom two performing trains) and redirect the money and equipment savings from running those two trains into something else.
conrailman Amtrak needs New Superliner Car order first, not Acela trainset again. Another NEC toy. Everything in NEC, help out LD trains with new cars and new engines for LD trains.
Amtrak needs New Superliner Car order first, not Acela trainset again. Another NEC toy. Everything in NEC, help out LD trains with new cars and new engines for LD trains.
Amtrak should be pushing hard for discontinuance of the Sunset Limited and Cardinal at a minimum (bottom two performing trains) and redirect the money and equipment savings from running those two trains into something else.
Everything is for NEC Toys, and nothing outside the NEC, maybe little 130 car Viewliners car order. We need more than 130 little car order.
Acelas are getting up there in age. It is time to start thinking about a replacement. And the NEC is not a toy. It's real passenger railroading serving many people. There are many that believe long distance trains are the expensive toys.
"On Monday morning..." Wow! Chuck the shmuck speaks and it's not on a Sunday.
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
And of course Schuner will not be upstaged and releases a very "short" title release !
https://www.schumer.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/schumer-announces-final-hurdles-have-been-cleared-amtrak-board-will-award-hornells-alstom-start-of-25-billion-program-to-build-safer-next-generation-high-speed-trains-senator-says-project-will-create-750-jobs-including-400-direct-manufacturing-jobs-at-alstom-in-hornell
Take the following for what it is worth. Maybe in a week or two there will be a contract between Alstom and Amtrak ?
http://www.eveningtribune.com/news/20160725/alstom-amtrak-come-to-terms-on-25-billion-deal
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