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Does bad dining car experience mean Amtrak is dying?

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Posted by CMStPnP on Tuesday, August 5, 2014 7:13 PM

They need to take Chef David Ramsey on a Amtrak Superliner Diner for a real critique.......Big Smile

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, August 5, 2014 11:24 PM

CMStPnP

They need to take Chef David Ramsey on a Amtrak Superliner Diner for a real critique.......Big Smile

Who is David Ramsey?

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Posted by ACY Tom on Wednesday, August 6, 2014 12:08 AM

Balt ---

You need to get off the computer and watch more T.V.

I'd like to suggest that Mr. Ramsey would fall on his quiche at the first 70 mph curve, but that would be unkind, so I won't.Laugh

Tom

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Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:44 AM

Here you go as an example.    Chef Ramsay inspects a Mexican Restaurant in the United States.    All this time I thought aged ingredients were part of their secret...............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBong35pA48

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Posted by schlimm on Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:44 AM

BaltACD

CMStPnP

They need to take Chef David Ramsey on a Amtrak Superliner Diner for a real critique.......Big Smile

Who is David Ramsey?

It's Chef Gordon Ramsay, of the TV program "Kitchen Nightmares."

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Posted by CMStPnP on Wednesday, August 6, 2014 7:50 AM

Here is another episode that should be called "Amtrak Fresh"............Big Smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb4uCmfe98U

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 2:30 PM

This penalizing of Amtrak riders about their meals is spreading to other venues.  If you read Army Times you will find that our combat troops are only allocated 2 MREs per day per congressional actions.  How did Mica vote ?  Guess the soldiers are overweight and need to slim down ?  That is even though soldiers may carry as much as ~ 100 #. Maybe Amtrak passenger overweight as well ? isn't the snack bar food  more empty  calories ?

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Posted by ACY Tom on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 2:39 PM

I'm sure this means there will be comparable cutbacks in food service on Capitol Hill, where it appears that there is probably an excess of cranial flab.

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Posted by parlordome on Monday, August 25, 2014 10:57 PM

When my wife broke her leg on the East Coast we were able to return to the Midwest only by train (medical resasons such as anti-coagulant often prevent flying, and I don't know how that could have even worked in terms of proper positioning). And, airlines can afford to serve only metro areas where they can board many passengers at a time (e.g. most cities in IL with air service require hours to reach by air with changes in Chicago and sky-high prices). Driving a car is neither public transportation nor realistic for a growing number of the young and old. That leaves bus, which like plane and car does not allow walking around, going to sit down and eat, or other important things for many people who get stiff and sometimes hungry. Private sleeping of course is feasible only on trains and ships, but the latter don't work well on land.

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, August 26, 2014 5:57 AM

parlordome
When my wife broke her leg on the East Coast we were able to return to the Midwest only by train (medical resasons such as anti-coagulant often prevent flying, and I don't know how that could have even worked in terms of proper positioning). 

Good thing you weren't overseas!

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, August 26, 2014 10:09 AM

oltmannd

parlordome
When my wife broke her leg on the East Coast we were able to return to the Midwest only by train (medical resasons such as anti-coagulant often prevent flying, and I don't know how that could have even worked in terms of proper positioning). 

Good thing you weren't overseas!

Having once dealt with a fractured leg I can sympathize.  But not sure how riding a train 16-20 hours, then changing in Chicago and riding another 2-5 hours is such an improvement over sitting on one plane 2-2.5 hours, changing at ORD and another one hour flight.

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, August 26, 2014 1:14 PM

schlimm
But not sure how riding a train 16-20 hours, then changing in Chicago and riding another 2-5 hours is such an improvement over sitting on one plane 2-2.5 hours, changing at ORD and another one hour flight.

It isn't, except:

Reduced cabin pressure, and pressure changes, can cause swelling and blood-vessel changes that are dangerous when on anticoagulants (not just the problems with 'blood thinners' like warfarin).  My father traveled by air very shortly after a diagnosed heart attack, with a cooler containing a dose of streptokinase.  He would NOT have traveled after administration...

If the leg had to be kept in a particular posture, there may not have been adequate room for convenient boarding or deboarding, or positioning the leg when seated, even in one of the 'designated rows' with extra space.  (She couldn't have been in one of the exit rows because she couldn't work the door in an emergency...)

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, August 26, 2014 9:45 PM

Deep vein thrombosis from blood pooling in the lower legs is primarily from gravity and prolonged immobility. The same will happen on a train if you don't get up and move around or are sitting for hours in a car or bus.

 http://www.who.int/ith/mode_of_travel/DVT/en/

Since it it difficult to move about much on a moving train or and airplane on crutches, the shorter the ride, the better for health considerations.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, August 26, 2014 10:35 PM

schlimm

Deep vein thrombosis from blood pooling in the lower legs is primarily from gravity and prolonged immobility. The same will happen on a train if you don't get up and move around or are sitting for hours in a car or bus.

 http://www.who.int/ith/mode_of_travel/DVT/en/

Since it it difficult to move about much on a moving train or and airplane on crutches, the shorter the ride, the better for health considerations.

It is much easier to move about on a train than it is a plane, bus or car.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, August 27, 2014 7:13 AM

Again, there is a wounded war veteran who once-a-year uses the Southwest chief and the Texas Special to go to and from his home near Alberquerque to visit relatives in Dallas.  The handicapped rooms on both trains meet his needs, and he could not make the trip by any other means.

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Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, August 27, 2014 11:52 AM

daveklepper

Again, there is a wounded war veteran who once-a-year uses the Southwest chief and the Texas Special to go to and from his home near Alberquerque to visit relatives in Dallas.  The handicapped rooms on both trains meet his needs, and he could not make the trip by any other means.

But what about the vet who lives near Caper Wyoming and has relatives in Nashville Tennessee?  We don't provide for him.  Why is one vet favored over another?

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Posted by oltmannd on Wednesday, August 27, 2014 11:57 AM

If the goal is mobility for the mobility impaired, there are probably more equitable ways of providing it for less cost.  How about intercity para-transit in motorhomes?  It could reach everyone who needed a ride.  Amtrak's LD don't, and couldn't not matter how extensive the network.

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Posted by schlimm on Wednesday, August 27, 2014 2:06 PM

Does Amtrak have figures that show the occupancy (by handicapped persons) rates for the handicapper-access rooms on the Superliner lower levels and wherever they are on Viewliner and other sleeper cars?

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, August 27, 2014 10:10 PM

oltmannd
How about intercity para-transit in motorhomes?  It could reach everyone who needed a ride.

And probably easy to arrange:  use the Angel Flight West model with the Good Sam people.

Hmmm....

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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, August 28, 2014 8:30 AM

I thnk that too often we let the tail wag the dog w.r.t. LD trains.

We start with:  We need to justify the existence of the trains

and that leads to the laundry list of things they can do such as:

-connect rural areas to urban areas

-help boost local economies of towns on the route

-provide transport for those who can't/won't fly or drive

etc, etc.

That's backwards.  You should start with the problem statement and work toward a solution.

If it turns out the Amtrak LD trains are the best solution to the list of problems, so be it.  But working backwards is intellectually dishonest.

I like the LD trains.  I'm glad they're around.  I know they are a political reality. But, I don't kid myself about how useful they are or that there is any rational justification for their existence.   In the grand scheme of intercity transport in the US, they really don't amount to much.

However, since they are a political realilty, it would be really nice if Amtrak would attempt to make them as relevant and useful and economically efficient as possible and not just run them as historical tributes to 1950s streamliners or kinetic art.

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Posted by schlimm on Thursday, August 28, 2014 8:47 AM

oltmannd

But, I don't kid myself about how useful they are or that there is any rational justification for their existence.   In the grand scheme of intercity transport in the US, they really don't amount to much.

However, since they are a political realilty, it would be really nice if Amtrak would attempt to make them as relevant and useful and economically efficient as possible

If they were funded under SS, Medicare, ADA, NEH or got a living museum grant, that would be just fine.  But unfortunately most of the LD trains need so much subsidy that they use well over half of the Amtrak subsidy to provide service to few people who have the good fortune to live near a city served.

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Posted by parlordome on Saturday, September 13, 2014 8:19 AM

Less cost for gas-guzzling motorhomes, individual drivers and their benefits packages and fully wheel-chair accessible accommodations, beds and meals? Anyone can break a leg as my wife did in Phila. & the only way home to St. Louis (flying was medically impossible owing to anti-coagulant etc.) was Amtrak's accessible bedrooms. They brought meals. It was perfect and prevented trying to find an intermediate-care place to stay after a week in the hospital. But, the Viewliner bedroom was far superior to Superliner's which we used during the day from Chicago to St. Louis. It's bedroom had narrower berths, no ladder to reach the upper one, no place for me to sit except in the wheelchair (because my wife needed the facing seat for her leg), no separate wheelcahir-accessible bathroom with shower, and small windows. 

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Posted by schlimm on Saturday, September 13, 2014 8:35 AM

Generally, taking anti-coagulant medications, even Warfarin does not interfere with flying.  In fact, anti-coagulants are prescribed for folks making long flights (over four hours) to prevent deep vein thrombosis.   Of course, your wife's case may have been different for special circumstances.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, September 13, 2014 3:27 PM

With existing services, what are the nearest Amtrak ral stations to Casper, Wyoming, and Nashville, TN, and what are the driving times by car?

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Posted by schlimm on Saturday, September 13, 2014 4:06 PM

daveklepper

With existing services, what are the nearest Amtrak ral stations to Casper, Wyoming, and Nashville, TN, and what are the driving times by car?

Dave:  Not a good picture.  For Caspar, the closest station would be Denver, about four hours by car.  For Nashville, looks like Atlanta, about 3.5-4.0 hours by car.

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, September 13, 2014 5:07 PM

schlimm
For Nashville, looks like Atlanta, about 3.5-4.0 hours by car.

Why not Memphis, less than 200 miles, seldom takes me more than 3 hours?

There's going to be a point where communities east and south of Nashville are indeed closer (in travel time) to service coming up through Atlanta, and it might help to know exactly 'where' in that area Mr. Klepper means.

On the other hand, for anything more than an academic question, it matters where you're going.  If to Chicago or the West, the Memphis connection is likely to be shorter/quicker; if you're going to the Northeast, the slight additional trip time to Atlanta would pay off dramatically...

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Posted by schlimm on Saturday, September 13, 2014 7:01 PM

Overmod

schlimm
For Nashville, looks like Atlanta, about 3.5-4.0 hours by car.

Why not Memphis, less than 200 miles, seldom takes me more than 3 hours?

There's going to be a point where communities east and south of Nashville are indeed closer (in travel time) to service coming up through Atlanta, and it might help to know exactly 'where' in that area Mr. Klepper means.

On the other hand, for anything more than an academic question, it matters where you're going.  If to Chicago or the West, the Memphis connection is likely to be shorter/quicker; if you're going to the Northeast, the slight additional trip time to Atlanta would pay off dramatically...

Good point, but from what I know of Dave, he'd probably be heading to the east coast.  if he's heading to Chicago (seems a fair guess, since he also mentioned Caspar, WY) then going to Dyersburg/Newbern, TN would be a better choice.  It's only 178 miles vs Memphis 212 and takes 2:45.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, September 14, 2014 2:56 AM

schlimm
... if he's heading to Chicago (seems a fair guess, since he also mentioned Caspar, WY) then going to Dyersburg/Newbern, TN would be a better choice

I was going to mention that but wimped out.  Probably cheaper, too (I was too lazy to have Julie check for me), and if he's parking the situation is likely to be easier -- although I've never carefully looked at the station arrangements there.  One note:  it's getting late by the time the northbound train gets to Dyersburg, with perhaps little to do while you wait.  .(vs. it not being very far even on foot from Beale St. to Central Station...  ;-})

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Posted by schlimm on Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:30 AM

Now that Overmod and I have completed the travel connection challenge quiz, where are you going?  

Dave Klepper, "Come on down!"

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, September 14, 2014 2:27 PM

schlimm
Dave Klepper, "Come on down!"

I think Dave was making a hypothetical example -- surely he wouldn't be flying from Jerusalem to Nashville on a special Opryland promotion ticket, and then switching directly to Amtrak...  ;-}

Does open up a potential discussion, though, about how different customers will 'value' access to Amtrak -- for instance, is it minimum trip time, vs. minimum out-of-pocket cost, vs. convenience, etc.

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