schlimm Or stepping out of TX, Phoenix (metro area population,4.33 million in 2012), in a state famous for retirement communities, with zero passenger service to anywhere.
Or stepping out of TX, Phoenix (metro area population,4.33 million in 2012), in a state famous for retirement communities, with zero passenger service to anywhere.
And Phoenix also has Casa Grande and Tucson. Also the retirement communities of Florida. My mother who like to remain independent had to give up driving due to eye problems but hates flying due to these eye problems. She once flew many times.. She has many friends with same problem as well. My hope is that the eye problems are not hereditary ?
blue streak 1And Phoenix also has Mira Mesa and Tucson.
Perhaps you meant AZ also has Tucson? But Tucson has Amtrak service already, though only 3X weekly. And perhaps you meant Mesa, near Phoenix? Mira Mesa is a San Diego neighborhood.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm blue streak 1And Phoenix also has Mira Mesa and Tucson. Perhaps you meant AZ also has Tucson? But Tucson has Amtrak service already, though only 3X weekly. And perhaps you meant Mesa, near Phoenix? Mira Mesa is a San Diego neighborhood.
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ACYCMSTPNP: While I have described what I consider to be a poor management attitude towards employees, I am not aware that Amtrak has broken any laws or provisions of the Union contract. The power of the Union may not be so great as you think it to be.
Probably not. Teamsters union that I belonged to in the early 1980's would have addressed the issue with HR first then management, they did not necessarily have to break an agreement. General complaining got through to them. In fact the Teamsters were able to get the MFG plant Air Conditioned which amazed me because it was a thermoset moulding operation (heated plastic and heated molds). That had to cost a fortune but the company went along with it. It reduced absenteeism in the summer months. I read on other railroad boards that some railway unions have lost their ability to challenge as much as they used to be able to. Maybe that is the case here.
Oh and I think Amtrak will survive with at least some LD trains in tact.. People give up to easily on Amtrak (I've seen worse and remember the massive breakdown in 1975-1976 that led to the Superliner passenger car order 2-3 years later). As soon as enough concerned people step forwards, Congress will back off as it has in the past. Just might be the next Presidential Administration saves it AND it's looking like a GOP win right now.
CMStPnP People give up to easily on Amtrak (I've seen worse and remember the massive breakdown in 1975-1976 that led to the Superliner passenger car order 2-3 years later). As soon as enough concerned people step forwards, Congress will back off as it has in the past. Just might be the next Presidential Administration saves it AND it's looking like a GOP win right now.
People give up to easily on Amtrak (I've seen worse and remember the massive breakdown in 1975-1976 that led to the Superliner passenger car order 2-3 years later). As soon as enough concerned people step forwards, Congress will back off as it has in the past. Just might be the next Presidential Administration saves it AND it's looking like a GOP win right now.
schlimm CMStPnP People give up to easily on Amtrak (I've seen worse and remember the massive breakdown in 1975-1976 that led to the Superliner passenger car order 2-3 years later). As soon as enough concerned people step forwards, Congress will back off as it has in the past. Just might be the next Presidential Administration saves it AND it's looking like a GOP win right now. The political climate is very different now compared with the late 70s. And if the GOP were to win in 2016, Amtrak may be scrapped.
dakotafredYou never know. An Amtrak rep I talked with on the Empire Builder in the 1990s said the administrations that had been worst for Amtrak were the Carter and Clinton, which saw whole routes axed.
I somewhat agree although during Carter they did place the first order for Superliners and I think Clinton was the second order but I am not sure about Clinton.
However, Texas case in point is nobody thought we could convince Governor George Bush to support initially the Heartland Flyer to OKC and yet he went along with the Texas Legislature and approved critical funding for it. Depends on political support at the time.
Read the following about restaurants. Food for thought. Does Amtrak need to rethink what it needs to tell patrons ? ACY ?
http://sfglobe.com/?id=1658&src=fbfan_1658
Read the story with great interest & amusement, but I'm not sure how relevant it is to Amtrak. I recently retired from working on a train that is demographically unique among Amtrak's trains, so you would probably get better ideas from somebody else. Thanks for the great story. Isn't it amazing how much the world is changing before our eyes?
Tom
Tom, have you had a chance to sample Acela food and service yet?
Dave ---
Nope. Since retirement a little over a month ago I've had to limit my travel because of the illness of a dear friend. I'm the only one available to provide transportation, food shopping, etc. for my friend on a consistent basis. One or two more surgeries should improve the situation, & then I hope to make use of my pass. Until then I'll just have to take the word of others.
But I'm looking forward to it. I'll let you know then.
The airline industry used 9/11 as an excuse to eliminate virtually all food service from planes. The food service aboard airliners which was already pretty pathetic. One airline was handing out plastic bags called snack packs which contained juice and two small food items; YUM YUM!
Some railroads had introduced slash and burn cost cutting to dining car service even before Amtrak. I have found in 40 plus years eating in Amtrak diners that food was anywhere from superb to terrible. The same goes for the service.The best meal I ever ate on Amtrak was on the North Coast Hiawatha in July of 1979. The air conditioning broke down but the service and food quality didn't. The server kept her cool and kept smiling while she provided excellent service. The worst was on the Desert Wind in 1982 when Amtrak tried to revise its menus.Both the food and service were dreadful crossing Cajon Pass. Waitstaff anywhere doesn't like serving lousy food to customers;plain and simple. Rude service is found where lousy food is served; on rails,aloft,or anywhere else.
Aricat, I agree with you about the meal service on Amtrak in 1982. Even knowing before I began my trip that Amtrak had been forced to cut back, I was astounded by what I found on the California Zephyr, the New York section of the Lake Shore Limited, and the Crescent--disposable cutlery, plates, and everything else, and, worst of all, pay when you order. The service on the Boston section of the Lake Shore Limited, on the train I rode from Boston to Providence for lunch, and on the City of New Orleans, even though not what it used to be was superior to the others. I ate my evening meal in the excuse for a station that existed in Washington at the time before leaving on the Crescent, and felt that that was better than what I would have had on board--and I found something to eat in Chicago before leaving to go back to Salt Lake City, even though there was no restaurant open in the station at the time.
The current meal service on Amtrak cannot be compared favorably with the first class meal service on the Canadian, but it is truly better than what was available on many trains in 1982.
Johnny
daveklepper Tom, have you had a chance to sample Acela food and service yet?
Although the question was directed to Tom, presumably anyone can respond.
I have had three trips on the Acela. One was from NYC to Philadelphia; another from Philadelphia to NYC, and the third from NYC to Washington. All three were in business class; I ain't paying what they want for first class. As one of the world's passionate cheap skates, the business class fare nearly caused me to choke.
The service was OK but no better than what I have experienced on the airlines or what I have experienced in business class on NEC regional trains. The food is OK but nothing to write home about. The food on Amtrak is about what you can expect at Denny's.
The best service that I have ever received on Amtrak was in May of this year between LAX and San Diego. The business class car attendant on the Pacific Surfliner train that I rode went out of her way to make everyone feel welcome. She was pleasant, efficient, and effective.
When I traveI along the NEC, I have a bite before or after traveling at one of the excellent restaurants in or near Penn Station in New York, 30th Street Station in Philadelphia, or Union Station in Washington. Union Station has several excellent restaurants in the station. The concourse bistro has an excellent Caesar's Salad and clam chowder. Not to mention an excellent drop of wine!
I have excellent memories of 1st class Metroliner food.
Don,
I went back and looked up Don Phillips' column. This is what he said:
"Sources connected to Amtrak tell me that President Joe Boardman is ignoring the terrible financial situation, assuming Democrats in Congress will find a way to see Amtrak through the fiscal year....."
With all due respect to Don Phillips and his sources I suspect other sources could be found to say things that are quite different. Joe Boardman has spent his life in government. He understands it. He knows that Congress has the power here and he has to accept that fact. But he also knows that Congress can change positions quite quickly. The issue is not what will Democrats do; it is whether or not Republicans will come to see that there are real benefits for their own states from Amtrak. And the recent nomination of Thad Cochran in Mississippi suggests this might be happening. So Joe Boardman is hanging in and building all the grass roots support he can. And that is his best strategy.
Have a good summer,
John
The gist of the column was that the dining car service was the "canary in the coal mine."
It's pretty plain to me that Joe Boardman is somewhat disinterested in the LD trains. He will do with them what Conrgress cares to fund/tells him to. He (correctly) understands that their political function >> transportation function. The NEC and other state - short haul routes are the places where Amtrak can make a real difference.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
John WR Don, I went back and looked up Don Phillips' column. This is what he said: "Sources connected to Amtrak tell me that President Joe Boardman is ignoring the terrible financial situation, assuming Democrats in Congress will find a way to see Amtrak through the fiscal year....." With all due respect to Don Phillips and his sources I suspect other sources could be found to say things that are quite different. Joe Boardman has spent his life in government. He understands it. He knows that Congress has the power here and he has to accept that fact. But he also knows that Congress can change positions quite quickly. The issue is not what will Democrats do; it is whether or not Republicans will come to see that there are real benefits for their own states from Amtrak. And the recent nomination of Thad Cochran in Mississippi suggests this might be happening. So Joe Boardman is hanging in and building all the grass roots support he can. And that is his best strategy. Have a good summer, John
I am suspect of undisclosed sources. Who are they? What do they know? How do they know it? How do they know that Boardman is ignoring Amtrak's terrible financial situation? Why is Amtrak's financial situation today any worse than it was last year or five years ago?
Net cash used for operations in FY13 was $349.3 million, down from $597.2 million in FY12 and $853.1 million in FY09. Net cash used for operations means the cash requirements for operations that was not covered by ticket revenues, etc. The proceeds from federal paid in capital as well as federal and state capital payments in FY 13 totaled $1.6 billion compared to $1.9 billion in FY12.
Of the $300 million reduction in federal and state payments, $247.8 million was offset by improved ticket, as well as other revenues, and $82.1 million was offset by increase purchases and refurbishments of property and equipment. In other words, most of the reduction in the federal state and capital payments was offset by better revenues.
At the end of FY13 Amtrak had cash balances of $282.3 million, up from $210.8 million in FY12 and $126.8 million in FY11.
Amtrak's total operating loss in FY13 was $1,228 million, down from $1,239 million in FY12 and $1,342 million in FY11. Based on the company's cash flows, as well as several other key financial variables, Amtrak's financial outcomes are not deteriorating. They are improving.
In another column, if I remember correctly, Phillips claimed that Amtrak is allocating a disproportionate amount of NEC overheads to the long distance trains that traverse it. He cited an undisclosed source for his information. I sent him a snail mail letter - someone told me people pay greater attention to snail mail than email - and asked him to disclose the source. Not surprisingly I never heard from him.
Does Phillips understand finance, especially Amtrak's finances, or is he just winging it on what he has heard from a Beltway insider?
Amtrak is not going to die. The long distance trains may die. Amtrak or parts of it may be privatized. Change is inevitable, although no one knows how it is likely to play out. One thing is sure, however. The outcomes will not be a function of lousy food and poor service in Amtrak's dinning cars.
What about comparing Amtrak food to airline food. In 40 years of flying, remember one tolerable meal on old Frontier Airlines and one good breakfast on United in 1974.Amtrak food has rarely been gourmet, but it's a cut above Applebees.
This was a bad winter. Fred Frailey was 15 hours late on the Canadian. I'd rather be with him than sleeping at La Guardia Airport on a hard floor as two friends of mine experienced. One day in February 700,000 people were stranded at airports due to cancelled flights (CNN). That month 1.2 million flights were cancelled (also CNN). Is Amtrak unraveling? Perhaps! Is airline service declining? You make the call..
Muralist0221 What about comparing Amtrak food to airline food. In 40 years of flying, remember one tolerable meal on old Frontier Airlines and one good breakfast on United in 1974.Amtrak food has rarely been gourmet, but it's a cut above Applebees. This was a bad winter. Fred Frailey was 15 hours late on the Canadian. I'd rather be with him than sleeping at La Guardia Airport on a hard floor as two friends of mine experienced. One day in February 700,000 people were stranded at airports due to cancelled flights (CNN). That month 1.2 million flights were cancelled (also CNN). Is Amtrak unraveling? Perhaps! Is airline service declining? You make the call..
Google Emirites First Class and look at their flying First Class compartments that are not much bigger than an Amtrak Roomette, also look at some of the meals you see..............thats where Amtrak First Class should be, IMHO. It will never get there in either of our lifetime because Amtrak is stuck looking to the past instead of the future.
Sam1Does Phillips understand finance, especially Amtrak's finances, or is he just winging it on what he has heard from a Beltway insider?
Another possibility is that he is acting as a conduit for certain groups with an undisclosed agenda.
CMStPnP Muralist0221 What about comparing Amtrak food to airline food. In 40 years of flying, remember one tolerable meal on old Frontier Airlines and one good breakfast on United in 1974.Amtrak food has rarely been gourmet, but it's a cut above Applebees. This was a bad winter. Fred Frailey was 15 hours late on the Canadian. I'd rather be with him than sleeping at La Guardia Airport on a hard floor as two friends of mine experienced. One day in February 700,000 people were stranded at airports due to cancelled flights (CNN). That month 1.2 million flights were cancelled (also CNN). Is Amtrak unraveling? Perhaps! Is airline service declining? You make the call.. Google Emirites First Class and look at their flying First Class compartments that are not much bigger than an Amtrak Roomette, also look at some of the meals you see..............thats where Amtrak First Class should be, IMHO. It will never get there in either of our lifetime because Amtrak is stuck looking to the past instead of the future.
It's been there - AOE and is there - Ed Ellis Pullman - at least to some degree.
No way should service at that level be directly subsidized. Maybe Amtrak should get out of the hotel and restaurant business altogether and just sell slots on their trains.
oltmanndNo way should service at that level be directly subsidized. Maybe Amtrak should get out of the hotel and restaurant business altogether and just sell slots on their trains.
You, I and maybe others have had food on the Deutsche Bahn's ICE Bord Restaurant services within the past year or so. Good tasty food, variety, quick service and affordable. I'm not sure about how subsidized it is, but they manage to keep labor costs low by efficiency.
CMStPnP Google Emirites First Class and look at their flying First Class compartments that are not much bigger than an Amtrak Roomette, also look at some of the meals you see..............thats where Amtrak First Class should be, IMHO. It will never get there in either of our lifetime because Amtrak is stuck looking to the past instead of the future.
The difference between First Class or Business Class fares and coach fares on most airlines can be substantial and you really don't get that much more service for the money. Emirates and various trans-Pacific airlines are advertising the extras in their First Class service because of the sheer length of their flights and the competitiveness of what is really a rather small market.
schlimmYou, I and maybe others have had food on the Deutsche Bahn's ICE Bord Restaurant services within the past year or so. Good tasty food, variety, quick service and affordable. I'm not sure about how subsidized it is, but they manage to keep labor costs low by efficiency.
An simple example everyone can relate to. Nearly all fast food joints let you get your own soda from the fountain. .Everyone knows how to get a soda from a vending machine. On Amtrak, they attendent has to waste his time getting you a cup full of ice.
The major chains know EXACTLY how long each process step takes getting you your order and build and arrange their stores for maximum efficiency.
Amtrak ahs been serving people the exact same way for over 40 years.
The only exceptions are the state services (WA, ME, NC) where the state is controlling the service.
schlimm oltmanndNo way should service at that level be directly subsidized. Maybe Amtrak should get out of the hotel and restaurant business altogether and just sell slots on their trains. You, I and maybe others have had food on the Deutsche Bahn's ICE Bord Restaurant services within the past year or so. Good tasty food, variety, quick service and affordable. I'm not sure about how subsidized it is, but they manage to keep labor costs low by efficiency.
I've been on the German trains even as help to the Conductor / Trainmaster for our U.S. Army troop trains that run over there on DB.
In regards to the ICE, yes the food and enclosed first class compartments are great and I might add quieter than Amtrak accomodations (including Amtrak's stupid quiet car which should be enclosed compartments). Anyways, all other amenities aside. We had the discussion on attempting DB food service in the United States. The posters here prefer slop over good food along with a heathy overdose on the labor featherbedding serving it to them as well. So in that respect they are too Americanized to the depression era soup kitchen or flophouse serving line approach. Maybe we are wasting our efforts here and just have to accept that Amtrak has a lower clientel that will never be demanding in the service area.
BTW, I am in the process of purchasing my first sit down fast food restaurant here in Dallas burbs and should be in possession after Labor Day. So pretty soon I will have some expertise in how to run a for profit food service operation. The location has repeatedly scored 96 out of 100 points via the city's unannounced food inspection service.......which is pretty good, IMHO. I already have a pretty good grasp of the financials. Obama's proposal for me to pay both health care for all my employees and a above a $10 an hour wage would bankrupt the operation without some kind of financial break from the franchisor or raising of prices. Wanted to comment on that political issue because it also kind of has implications for running of Amtrak's Dining Car operation.....in a way.
For the past few years, the AutoTrain has, to me, been commuter rail, going from my house in VA to business meetings in central FL. Without any exceptions whatsoever, I found the sleeping car crew and the dining car staff to be excellent, and the food quite good (better than Denny's).
Cutting out the club car has definitely made the trip less enjoyable. I enjoyed speaking to strangers after boarding.
On a few occasions when I had to go to northern Florida, I used the SIlver Meteor, with the same experience--only problem was the ancient Silver Meteor dining car could spill glasses.
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