That would be 1947. M&O + GM&N started in 1938 with the ICC and the two predecessor names were gone by 1947 at the same time ALTON was swallowed by GM&O.(5-31-47)
tataiaI don't know about you but electric or diesel-electric locmotives equipped with whistles, not horns existed in the past....some of them exist even today. FOr example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzM5InljDxo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzM5InljDxo
Other side of the Pond!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I don't know about you but electric or diesel-electric locmotives equipped with whistles, not horns existed in the past....some of them exist even today. FOr example:
B&O 50 was used on one of the 'lightweight' equipment sets on the Royal Blue between Washington and New York. B&O President Daniel Willard didn't like the ride quality of this set of equipment and after a short time in operation it was sent to the B&O's Chicago & Alton subsidary along with B&O 50 to operate between St. Louis and Chicago. On the Alton it was given a face lift and ran with the equipment as the Abraham Lincoln. During WW II the B&O sold the Alton to the Mobile & Ohio which at some point thereafter renamed itself to the Gulf, Mobile & Ohio.
Save
Thank You.
I may be mistaken, but I do believe what is shown as GM&O 1200 started life as B&O 50 and it was originially equipped with a horn.
RME oldline1 I own a Nathan P5 "whistle". I have the maintenance sheets and some other data from Nathan that refer to this huge and loud creature as a "whistle". Interesting, because the official Nathan site now doesn't refer to the AirChimes as anything but 'horns'. You might provide the date of the material you have, and perhaps document numbers or even scans, as it would be interesting to identify when their policies changed.
oldline1 I own a Nathan P5 "whistle". I have the maintenance sheets and some other data from Nathan that refer to this huge and loud creature as a "whistle".
Interesting, because the official Nathan site now doesn't refer to the AirChimes as anything but 'horns'.
You might provide the date of the material you have, and perhaps document numbers or even scans, as it would be interesting to identify when their policies changed.
Well, I lack the intelligence to master posting photos and stuff to Kalmbach's site.
I checked my parts pages and maintenance pages for my P5 and they have no dates but everywhere they call it a whistle. I went to the Nathan site and they do call it a horn.
Apparently they refer to the entire assembly as "whistle" and the individual cone shaped things I always heard of as "bells' as the "horn". Go figure?
I don't know when they changed the terminology or why.
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
Meanwhile, the plot thickens. While I was looking over Eastern 4-8-4s (and then a wider selection of 4-8-4s) for what has turned out to be the Locomotive Draft Control Device, I noticed some interesting details concerning air horns.
In the 1975 PRM book on "Northerns", p.110, there is a lovely shot of the Timken Four Aces on the DL&W at Hoboken Terminal, with a rather amazing chime horn visible at the top of the boiler (it has at least four bells). I thought perhaps the horn was actually mounted (for a reason I couldn't really explain) on the cat-bridge structure behind the locomotive, but there's a picture of Lackawanna 1501 with a very similar horn, in a very similar place, on p.21.
Meanwhile, judging from what I've seen, all the Lackawanna Q-4-a's had small single air horns, right on center top of the boiler just ahead of the sand dome. How they kept cinders, soot and such out of this bell, small as it was, I'm not sure...
Firelock76Doesn't explain why the NYC put air horns on the Niagaras though. Just to be modern and "cool?"
The Railway Mechanical Engineer articles on the Niagara specifically mention the various savings to be derived from the use of a 'pneuphonic' horn blown by compressed air vs. the use of superheated steam. (Whistle on the C1a was likewise to use superheated steam so I'd expect those would have gotten horns by '47; on the other hand, the A2a Berkshires, last NYC big steam, never got horns -- which was an advantage, because they had some of the finest whistles ever applied to steam power...)
23 17 46 11
That makes sense too.
Firelock76It does sound plausible. Mariners will tell you fog does distort conventional whistles making it difficult to tell just where the sound is coming from, it's one of the reasons fog was the most hated navigational hazard in the pre-radar days. Doesn't explain why the NYC put air horns on the Niagaras though. Just to be modern and "cool?"
Doesn't explain why the NYC put air horns on the Niagaras though. Just to be modern and "cool?"
In the early fall, rivers that have accumulated Summer's heat all summer, when the early cold snaps come along generate some severe fog events throughout the valleys that the rivers occupy. NYC prided itself in being 'the Water Level Route' - being water level it occupied many river valleys that would become fog filled.
Norm48327 blue streak 1 Doesn't Portland's GS-4 4449 have a single note air horn as well as a steam boat whistle ? Yes it does, and it's been said that Doyle McCormick hates it.
blue streak 1 Doesn't Portland's GS-4 4449 have a single note air horn as well as a steam boat whistle ?
Doesn't Portland's GS-4 4449 have a single note air horn as well as a steam boat whistle ?
Yes it does, and it's been said that Doyle McCormick hates it.
I forget where I read this, but supposedly the air horns were installed on the GS's since they ran along the California coast and the sound from air horns was distorted less by the frequent fogs along the route than steam whistles were.
It does sound plausible. Mariners will tell you fog does distort conventional whistles making it difficult to tell just where the sound is coming from, it's one of the reasons fog was the most hated navigational hazard in the pre-radar days.
Doesn't explain why the NYC put air horns on the Niagaras though. Just to be modern and "cool?" Although RME's suggestion of saving steam, heat, and water does make sense.
wanswheel
I wonder if those guys were salaried or paid by the hour?
Or the honk?
selectorI have always used the term 'horn' for the flared tubes with vibrating diaphragms that make what I like to call a 'blaaattt!" That would be on all diesels and on at least one 4-8-4 back in the day...the S1-b Niagara.
Just as a note: the Niagaras weren't built with them (and the C1a Duplex wasn't specified with one, either). The 'pneuphonic' horns were applied at quarterly inspections in 1947 (5550, the S2a, got its horn in March).
There's an appreciable saving of heat and water if there's a need to blow for many grade crossings at high speed...
jeffhergert zugmann Deggesty Ed, Larry, Carl, Balt, Zug, Jeff, anyone? Whistle or horn - completely interchangable. I think the rulebook calls them horn signals, but don't quote me on that. I'd check, but it's in my locker. On newer engines, the lever/button has a picture of a little trumpet next to it. GCOR calls them whistle signals.
zugmann Deggesty Ed, Larry, Carl, Balt, Zug, Jeff, anyone? Whistle or horn - completely interchangable. I think the rulebook calls them horn signals, but don't quote me on that. I'd check, but it's in my locker. On newer engines, the lever/button has a picture of a little trumpet next to it.
Deggesty Ed, Larry, Carl, Balt, Zug, Jeff, anyone?
Whistle or horn - completely interchangable. I think the rulebook calls them horn signals, but don't quote me on that. I'd check, but it's in my locker. On newer engines, the lever/button has a picture of a little trumpet next to it.
GCOR calls them whistle signals.
So does the CROR (Canadian rules), but horn is acceptable too apparently. Excerpt from Rule 14:
Note:
(i) Wherever the words “engine whistle” appear in these rules they also refer to “engine horn”. Signals prescribed by this rule are illustrated by “o” for short sounds; “___” for longer sounds.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Norm
Deggesty... among other interesting things, my fingers at first failed to put the "t" in rabbits."
Not as much of a mistake as you think! Those rabbis were probably avoiding paying rail fare by utilizing קְפִיצַת הַדֶּרֶךְin a more direct line...
DeggestyWhew! It is well that I proofread what I just wrote--among other interesting things, my fingers at first failed to put the "t" in rabbits.
Darned clergymen...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Semper Vaporo I have two friends that are "Engineers" (another misnomer) and they both have referred to "Whistling a crossing" or "Whistle signals for the man on the ground..."
I have two friends that are "Engineers" (another misnomer) and they both have referred to "Whistling a crossing" or "Whistle signals for the man on the ground..."
And on the scanner I have heard references to "whistling off" (departing).
And further on a point made above, the Milwaukee Road 4-8-4 #261 has two different steam whistles and an air horn. I am told that in regular service it almost always used the air horn at crossings, etc. Now and then they use it (the air horn that is) in excursion service.
Dave Nelson
Whew! It is well that I proofread what I just wrote--among other interesting things, my fingers at first failed to put the "t" in rabbits."
Johnny
"Hey, we've got a crossing coming up. Get the horns out of the lounge car..."
I would formally like to nominate Wanswheel's posting above as "The Photo of the Year"....cannot see this being topped...likely ever!
Also well aware that the Milwaukee built a lot of their equipment, from rolling stock to passenger cars, and they all had their own distinctive look but this arrangement/creation is amazing.
RMEI have to wonder, a bit tongue in cheek, what the official word for horn use that corresponds to 'whistling' might be...
Fortunately "tweet" is taken...
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
jeffhergert Whistle or horn - completely interchangeable. I think the rulebook calls them horn signals, but don't quote me on that. I'd check, but it's in my locker. GCOR calls them whistle signals.
Whistle or horn - completely interchangeable. I think the rulebook calls them horn signals, but don't quote me on that. I'd check, but it's in my locker.
NORAC is interesting. It calls them "whistle or horn signals" in most places (e.g., Rule 19) but then refers to the actual procedure only as 'whistling'. One piece of wording is interesting:
For trains and engines exceeding 60 MPH, the whistle signal must not be started more than ¼ mile in advance of the public grade crossing, even if the advance warning provided by the locomotive horn will be less than 15 seconds in duration.
In the definitions section, for "quiet zone", only the word 'horn' is used, which I assumed to be related to a formal or perhaps legal definition (remember that 49 CFR Part 222 is called by the FRA the "Train Horn Rule", and by CSX the "Locomotive Horn Rule")
I have to wonder, a bit tongue in cheek, what the official word for horn use that corresponds to 'whistling' might be...
Jeff
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