Paul of CovingtonDid early diesels have a different-sounding horn?
Many of them did. We've had threads about the A-220 and similar 'honkers' (listen to any cut of a GG1 that uses the horn for the idea).
As I've noted, I spent my early years close to the Erie (became Erie Lackawanna) Northern Branch, which had only just become equipped with RS2s/3s that had this kind of single-note horn. That was how I thought locomotives were "supposed" to sound for many childhood years. They were not so much a 'blat' (like truck air horns) as a kind of "HAAAAAMP!" sound; I never objected to the sound of this kind of horn on GG1s at high speed.
On the other hand, once we moved to the East Hill on the Palisades in the mid-1960s, I could hear the three-note chime horns on the NYC West Shore all through the night, and while they might not have all the quilling 'expression playing' steam whistles did, they were just as emotionally evocative -- 'real' railroading instead of plain old commuter stuff.
zugmann BaltACD Having one man in control of the air and the other in control of the shoving sounds like a recipe for disaster. No thanks. Give me car counts and let me have my air.
BaltACD
Having one man in control of the air and the other in control of the shoving sounds like a recipe for disaster. No thanks. Give me car counts and let me have my air.
Just like almost everything else in railroading the routine backup moves had their own set of procedures to be followed. The engineer would have his visual cues of when to apply power and when to decrease power in accordance with the train size of the move he was making - the other thing to remember - RADIOS DID NOT EXIST, so car counts weren't available to the man controlling the locomotive throttle.
Railroading without radios is totally foreign to current railroaders.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I have a Penn Central Western Region employee timetable dated 1969 which includes 2-3 pages of Special Instructions related to passenger equipment back-up moves into Chicago Union Station. There are provisions for a number of safety stops included.
zugmannHaving one man in control of the air and the other in control of the shoving sounds like a recipe for disaster.
A friend nearly discovered the hard way about dumping the air vs a reduction. As Zug says, good car counts and you're in business. Dumping the air is for emergencies.
We'd always test the back-up hose by cutting out the brake stand and doing a reduction. Then, during one event, we discovered that it was possible to have the valve on the back-up hose fully open (having been slowly opened) and still not effect a reduction... It wasn't ugly, but it got real close...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
BaltACDI believe 'pressure maintaining' can be cut in and cut out by the engineer on the locomotive. Cut it out when move is to be controlled by the back up valve and cut it back in when the engineer again has full control of the movement.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Yep, the New Haven RR was a big user of Hancock Air Whistles (an on-line customer of theirs, I believe). The NH applied them to:29 x RDC-12 x RDC-26 x RDC-33 x RDC-41 x DL-10960 x FL930 x GP915 x H16-4415 x RS-1120 x SW1200100 x 4400-class MU's10 x EP-59 x FCD RailbusTotal: 300 Hancock Air Whistles
Plus, the NH applied old steam whistles to new diesel switchers:65 x S-122 x S-221 x HH's10 x DEY-2Whistles were applied to all NH electric motors other than the EF-4, EF-3 and EP-4 (that's 163 electrics w/ the EP-5's).
blue streak 1 Deggesty Paul, the horror that I remember was the peanut whistles on Georgia RR diesels when I lived in Decatur. After having heard the mellow whistles of J's while living in Bristol, it was nerve-wrcking.was Agree noted that many time with the eastbound evening GARR passenger train going past agony spot. ( That's Agnes Scott college in Decatur for the unknowing ). The only way to describe the horn was it was a poor imitation of the American Flyer attempt to imitate a Nathan Air Chime horn in their "S" guage trains.
Deggesty Paul, the horror that I remember was the peanut whistles on Georgia RR diesels when I lived in Decatur. After having heard the mellow whistles of J's while living in Bristol, it was nerve-wrcking.was
Paul, the horror that I remember was the peanut whistles on Georgia RR diesels when I lived in Decatur. After having heard the mellow whistles of J's while living in Bristol, it was nerve-wrcking.was
Johnny
BaltACDOn my carrier and I suspect many others, the caboose 'whistle' was a dual function air valve permanetly attached to the caboose railings on each end of the caboose - 1. make the whistling sound for road crossings and other signalling purposes. 2. as a air brake valve to apply the brakes on a shoving movement.
At the Fox River Trolley Museum, we have an ex-IC transfer caboose that is so equipped. We don't have to to use a hose type as Amtrak.
Also, many observation cars had a brake valve, a signal valve and whistle valve behind a panel near the door. Memories of the B&O's Cincinnatian backing across Spring Grove Ave after leaving Winton Place when the conducter would sid down just before the train made its stop, waited for the switch to reverse, and the signal to clear and then start backing. Conducter would have the back-up whistle screaming as we approached the crossing. It was an efficient and quick operation.
The term for whistle many years ago was "steam trumpet". The passed on tradition among railroaders is the term whistle, although the FRA gives instructions to the use of the locomotive horn. So, when approaching a crossing be sure to blow the horn when you note the trackside whistle post.
tree68 You'll see "back-up hoses" on many Amtrak trains. We use them - every now and then we have to do longer back-up moves (ie, outside the yards). One thing about the valve on the back-up hoses - with today's pressure maintaining locomotive brake valves, the only way to effect any sort of stop is to dump the train. Trying to simply reduce the pressure in the brake line won't do a thing for you - even if the valve is open all the way...
You'll see "back-up hoses" on many Amtrak trains.
We use them - every now and then we have to do longer back-up moves (ie, outside the yards).
One thing about the valve on the back-up hoses - with today's pressure maintaining locomotive brake valves, the only way to effect any sort of stop is to dump the train. Trying to simply reduce the pressure in the brake line won't do a thing for you - even if the valve is open all the way...
I believe 'pressure maintaining' can be cut in and cut out by the engineer on the locomotive. Cut it out when move is to be controlled by the back up valve and cut it back in when the engineer again has full control of the movement.
switch7frgDoes anyone remember the little air whistle on the caboose that was used when backing back to the main yard after the switching duty was done in another distant switch yard. The little whistle was on a hose that was connected to the brake air line and tied on to the step railing. There was no wye to turn around and head back. The switchmans eyes got a little big when the train got close to a busy street , as the whistle had a weak toot toot. Just thinking of days gone by. Cannonball
Cannonball
On my carrier and I suspect many others, the caboose 'whistle' was a dual function air valve permanetly attached to the caboose railings on each end of the caboose - 1. make the whistling sound for road crossings and other signalling purposes. 2. as a air brake valve to apply the brakes on a shoving movement.
Those two functions were also performed by a 'back up hose' which was frequently attached to the rear car of passenger trains. On my carrier the 'Observation Cars' as a part of their equipment on the 'observation end' of the car had built in 'back up hose' controls to both sound the whistle and make brake applications as necessary during back up moves. B&O backed most of their trains into the station at Washington DC.
Did early diesels have a different-sounding horn? I vaguely remember reading back in the 1950's that because people did not like the sound of the horns, they would be replaced with horns that sounded more like steam whistles. I do remember that they sounded a lot like loud farts back then. Does anyone else remember this?
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
switch7frg Does anyone remember the little air whistle on the caboose that was used when backing back to the main yard after the switching duty was done in another distant switch yard. The little whistle was on a hose that was connected to the brake air line and tied on to the step railing. There was no wye to turn around and head back. The switchmans eyes got a little big when the train got close to a busy street , as the whistle had a weak toot toot. Just thinking of days gone by. Cannonball
Does anyone remember the little air whistle on the caboose that was used when backing back to the main yard after the switching duty was done in another distant switch yard. The little whistle was on a hose that was connected to the brake air line and tied on to the step railing. There was no wye to turn around and head back. The switchmans eyes got a little big when the train got close to a busy street , as the whistle had a weak toot toot. Just thinking of days gone by.
Y6bs evergreen in my mind
carnej1Every railfan knows that a "motor" is an electric locomotive that gets its power from overhead catenary or third rail..the nerve of some people..
I've used the term once or thrice.
Then there's MU'ing locomotives and "lashups."
selectorThat would be on all diesels and on at least one 4-8-4 back in the day...the S1-b Niagara.
I'm pretty sure SP used "Blaaaat" horns on the GS locomotives, and possibly some cab forwards.
carnej1 A while back on one of the forums I mentioned reading that railroaders on some roads refer to diesel electric locomotives as "motors"; how dare they?! Every railfan knows that a "motor" is an electric locomotive that gets its power from overhead catenary or third rail..the nerve of some people..
A while back on one of the forums I mentioned reading that railroaders on some roads refer to diesel electric locomotives as "motors"; how dare they?!
Every railfan knows that a "motor" is an electric locomotive that gets its power from overhead catenary or third rail..the nerve of some people..
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
I have always used the term 'horn' for the flared tubes with vibrating diaphragms that make what I like to call a 'blaaattt!" That would be on all diesels and on at least one 4-8-4 back in the day...the S1-b Niagara.
The sound-emitting devices atop boilers, regardless of how sonorous/not they sounded, and which emitted steam in doing so, were all whistles. Also on the Niagaras.
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
oldline1I own a Nathan P5 "whistle". I have the maintenance sheets and some other data from Nathan that refer to this huge and loud creature as a "whistle".
Interesting, because the official Nathan site now doesn't refer to the AirChimes as anything but 'horns'.
You might provide the date of the material you have, and perhaps document numbers or even scans, as it would be interesting to identify when their policies changed.
I own a Nathan P5 "whistle". I have the maintenace sheets and some other data from Nathan that refer to this huge and loud creature as a "whistle". I accept that term even though to me it's a "horn". Either way it sounds great and echos well when I blow it to scare the cows in the surrounding fields here at the farm.
Many terms are improperly used with some being hold-overs from days gone by. I know several folks who still call it a "perculator" no matter how it makes and provides coffee in the morning. I'm sure everyone has heard someone call an engine (car, truck, airplane, boat) a "motor". Look at the lengthy discussions concerning "turnouts" vs "switches".
Roger Huber
writesongSome time back, when I was at a railroad fan web site (was it this one?), a moderator informed me that the air horn on a diesel electric locomotive is referred to as a "whistle", and NOT as a "horn", because that is in keeping with a tradition of the railroad.
In my opinion, you need to find the reference, and the railroad involved. It would be THEIR tradition alone that would apply, and certainly not constitute a general rule for you to follow about when to use 'horn' or 'whistle'.
Part of the fun, of course, is that current references still use the word 'whistle' when referring to signaling: I believe both FRA and the current GCOR do this. But that doesn't mean that the physical device used to do the signaling has to be referred to as a 'whistle' when it rather obviously isn't. That's where the semantic confusion has come in.
If it is a device with a vibrating diaphragm producing the sound, it's probably a horn even if the classic 'trumpet' bell or megaphone isn't present (car horns, and some cab-car horns, curl the bell but it's still needed) If it uses aerodynamic flow instability across a gap or orifice to produce the sound, it's a whistle. (It might be noted that steam locomotive whistles generally use mostly air to produce their sound, which is why blowing them on compressed air isn't that different in most cases from blowing them on steam.)
The Hancock air whistle is a special case, because while it appears to have a bell (similar to what's on a 'horn' PA speaker) that is just a bowl reflector. The 4700 for example has a languid plate just like a Hancock steam whistle; the bowl concentrates the sound 'forward' rather than omnidirectionally radially as the whistle would if mounted as usual for a steam-locomotive. (At least theoretically this reduced the size and air consumption needed, but the sound was still pretty anemic compared to contemporary Canadian-derived diaphragm horns...)
I would like to hear the full story about steam whistles on Southern E units. If I remember correctly, 6903 had a special setup where the whistle was blown off the steam-generator output for fantrip activity in the mid-'70s ... it didn't work too well, as the piping was too small and long to keep the steam properly dry at the plate, and the sound quality was 'not what was expected'. Does anyone have quick access to the Trains Magazine article about the 'restored' Southern Crescent after Amtrak, in which I dimly remember mention of a steam whistle in 'regular' service?
EJ&E had Hancock air whistles on some of its centercabs, the sound was a bit anemic compared to a horn.
[quote user="zugmann"]
Deggesty Ed, Larry, Carl, Balt, Zug, Jeff, anyone?
Whistle or horn - completely interchangable. I think the rulebook calls them horn signals, but don't quote me on that. I'd check, but it's in my locker. On newer engines, the lever/button has a picture of a little trumpet next to it.
Zug,
A button with a picture? Kind of takes the fun out of the mental image for me.
ATSFGuyDid Metrolink have whistles in the early years?
Might have been Hancocks.
We had one we used in certain areas but it got retired when the FRA said it wasn't loud enough...
On a YouTube video, I was watching Metrolink action from 1994 and kept hearing whistles on the Cabcars.
Did Metrolink have whistles in the early years?
I have two friends that are "Engineers" (another misnomer) and they both have referred to "Whistling a crossing" or "Whistle signals for the man on the ground..."
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
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