MBTA wouldn't want them because they would be restricted to the Boston-Providence line, limiting their utilization compared to the diesels, which can run anywhere.
Metro North wouldn't want them because they don't need them. The GCT-New Haven line is operated with MU cars, precluding a need for locomotives.
Shore Line East is a small operation and seems to be doing just fine with diesels.
Whow, another U.S. locomotive besides AEM7 looking like a Swedish RC!
Thanks for posting!
The ALP-44s were built after the AEM-7s, when EMD no longer was producing the AEM-7s. The ALP-44s are based off the Rc6s, and were built by ABB.
NJT's are stored dead on the stub of the Lackawanna Cutoff.
SEPTA's one is still in service, alongside several AEM-7s.
I agree with the other comments above regarding that no one wants them. Shore Line East plans to replace the diesels with M8 MUs.
Hmmm...many exported Rcs have found their way back to Nordic countries where they are now in active use again. The gauge in this case is right, as are the dimensions, but what about the overhead wire voltage? In Sweden and Norway this should be 15 kV.
While I'm eagerly waiting for some Alp44 pics, here are a few Rc6 pics.
The ones below were once imported and now they are back from Austria.
Maybe this could happen to devalued Alp44s too? Given that they are using the right voltage.
The ALP-44s usually ran on 25kV, but IIRC could run on 12.5kV as well, so 15kV should work, maybe with minor modification. Modification would be needed anyway, with different lights and couplers.
If Nordic countries want them, NJT would probably sell them, seeing that they will probably be scrapped in a few years due to a lack of railroads that want them. Hopefully a couple are preserved.
The AEM-7s are based on the Rc4.
Yes, the 12,5 kV 15 kV just might work!
Maybe someone of us should contact a few operators in Sweden and Norway. I might talk to them when visiting, but here is a short contact list for possible locomotive hungry operators (meaning in short their business is growing and they are for the moment short of inexpensive locos) in case someone is interested:
- Baneservice (MOW & freight) - Blå Tåget / the (famous) Blue Train (passenger) - CargoLink (fast freigh) - CargoNet (freight) (likely wishing to replace their TRAXXion power) - HectorRail (freight and passenger)- MTH (start up for passenger service) - Infranord (MOW) (see picture above)- TågAB (freight and passenger, spcialized also in rebuilding the old rolling stock for usable condition)- Rush Rail (freight) - Strukton rail (MOW) - Three-T (leasing) (see picture above)- Gävle and Luleå railways museums.
Plus a whole bunch of smaller operators / start ups there.
NorthWest The ALP-44s usually ran on 25kV, but IIRC could run on 12.5kV as well, so 15kV should work, maybe with minor modification. Modification would be needed anyway, with different lights and couplers. If Nordic countries want them, NJT would probably sell them, seeing that they will probably be scrapped in a few years due to a lack of railroads that want them. Hopefully a couple are preserved.
I don't know how the Alp44 were used in U.S., but here is one of the pictures that just amazed me at the time: SJ Rc3 used for serious switching work cab being manned! Talk about poor visibility and ergonomics! The Rc3 #1027 is working here at the largest yard (by volumes) Hagalund, almost in the center of Stockholm, Sweden.
Any locomotive with a cab at both ends can be used effectively as a switcher (diesel or electric).
Well, as long as you are not running the opposite direction...;)
Look at the steps on this loco too, not the most ergonomic solution. This is NOT a remote control unit.
daveklepper Any locomotive with a cab at both ends can be used effectively as a switcher (diesel or electric).
Here is how it is done normally. A real switcher configuration with ergonomic steps and a two or three man crew with hands free headsets, one or two carrying the remote control set with them. This locomotive is a Green Cargo class Td, here doing some serious switching in Luleå, Sweden.
Scrapping these would probably be senseless waste.
I just figured out that with dual voltage systems these would most likely be good for all Danish 25 kV and Swedish and Norwegian 15 kV systems. This would give these units edge over normal Rcs.
Given someone knows they might be for sale, or someone is willing to offer them to the list above.
ndbprrPure speculation here but are they fifteen years old? If not they may be stored until fully depreciated then be sold for scrap if nothing else.
Would any of you know where more technical info on these could be found, like the weight?
Wikipedia is lacking this, and of course everything there must be regarded as "might be" information.
Weight: 205,700lb, or 93.3 (metric) tonnes.
7000 HP
Length: 15590mm
That is all I've got, sorry. Height is probably important, too.
Try checking books, as I can't find anything online.
Thank you NorthWest!
The ALP44 weight means these would be superior in pulling power compared with all other Rcs (including the weight added Rms, which is basically a ballasted Rc2). And still they would be very well withing the typical limits of lines in Sweden, Norway and Denmark. If someone will be smart enough to transport them over in time.
Which books would you recommend for additional info?
NorthWest Weight: 205,700lb, or 93.3 (metric) tonnes. 7000 HP Length: 15590mm That is all I've got, sorry. Height is probably important, too. Try checking books, as I can't find anything online.
I don't know about SEPTA, but I'd suspect New Jersey Transit's probably wrung every bit of work they could get out of their ALP44's, that's why they've retired them. Those units probably don't have much left to give.
I could be wrong, though.
You're wrong, they were young and just in need of routine mid-life overhauls. The only reason they went when they did was they wanted more HP to haul their new bi-levels. That swung the equation towards buying new instead of overhauling locomotives.
To borrow some highway department terminology that enthusiast of old bridges should be familiar with, they were functionally obsolete. Their condition wasn't deficient.
ALP-44s are 4,400 Horsepower, vs 7,000 for an AEM-7. The ALP46 that replaced them develops 4,600hp which allows them to haul 1 or 2 more bilevel coaches per train, which increases train capacity by over 200 passengers.. That is the reason that NJT retired theirs.
McKey, I'm not sure what books you might find more information in, if I knew that I'd probably have the info to tell you. You might also try to talk to NJT. Keep it up, though, I hope these see service again, not the torch!
Firelock, the AEM-7s, largely the same locomotive, have been going far longer than the about 15 years NJT had the ALP-44s.
PAJARR, The ALP-44s are rated at 7000 peak HP, but somewhere in the 5000s for continuous HP, while the ALP-46s are rated at 7100 and the ALP-46As are rated at 7500.
Thank You NorthWest for all the information you provided! Maybe I could send a couple of the power hungry operators an email, so they know these units exist. The ones that have no problem rebuilding and modifying easily just about anything. For example TågAb and HectorRail are examples of these. TågAb besides does this for a whole bunch of others too.
NorthWest McKey, I'm not sure what books you might find more information in, if I knew that I'd probably have the info to tell you. You might also try to talk to NJT. Keep it up, though, I hope these see service again, not the torch! For a funny example here is one of the American diesels, this time a disguised Fordson tractor from 1935, actively being used to move _big_ units at TågAb locoworks.
For a funny example here is one of the American diesels, this time a disguised Fordson tractor from 1935, actively being used to move _big_ units at TågAb locoworks.
Thanks for the information gentlemen! As an old friend once said, it's a wasted day if you haven't learned something new!
McKey, emailing companies would be good. It would be terrible to waste these, they are probably only halfway through their service life.
If these go to Europe, NJT benefits, as they probably can sell them for more than scrap value, the European operators get locomotives similar to those successful in service cheaper than new locomotives, everyone wins!
might not there be clearance problems, width especially?
Clearance should not be a problem in the Nordic countries. Here is a proof of that ;)
Picture by Gerry Putz from the Swedish hot spot Hallsberg (right in the middle of the country, judged not by the geography but the population).
In tow are the huge containers of StoraEnso used for forest products (cellulose?). This is a Green Cargo Rc4 number 1308 running just past the operators loco depot.
But if you go as far as Germany, things on clearings can look very different. Not to talk about Switzerland who just got one of the tunnels heightened to 4 meters...the Swedish and Finnish trucks are often 4,4 meters high / 14 feet 515⁄64 inches, so there is no way these could be loaded even to a low profile truck carrier. What a waste of efforts when the normal Northern loading gauged can't be used for this rail transit route to South!
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the transformer design. The ALP44s apparently were ok for both 25 Hz and 60 Hz, but the Nordic electrification is 16 2/3 Hz. That might be beyond the ability of the transformers to handle at full rating.
Dave Phelps
The 65 or so operating AEM-7's and HHP-8's are all slated for retirement by the 70 upcoming ACS-64's. First will go the AEM-7DC's then the rebuilds and HHP-8's.
Dave Phelps, as an ex-transformer designer, you are correct. Probably a transformer replacement would be in order. The 25Hz transformers may be far too inefficient for operation and run too hot at the same time. Much depends on the actual transformer design. If it could be used, it would be derated to about half power!
You are right, these are the ruling voltages for the Nordic countries:
Sweden: 15 kV 16,7 Hz due to early electrification of the heavy duty Malmbana, very similar case to Gotthard pass route in Switzerland.
Norway: actually part of the same network with Sweden: 15 kV 16,7 Hz
Denmark: late beginning enabled more developed 15 kV 50 Hz (note that in Europe the Hz is alway 50 instead of the American 60).
Finland: due to very late beginning (late 1960s) 25 kV 50 Hz, sometimes double overhead wires installed for more powerful current feed.
Iceland: no overheard electricity.
Nearby Estonia: 3300 V DC. I suppose they will start building more modern and more functional 25 kV 50 Hz in the coming years.
Phelps One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the transformer design. The ALP44s apparently were ok for both 25 Hz and 60 Hz, but the Nordic electrification is 16 2/3 Hz. That might be beyond the ability of the transformers to handle at full rating. Dave Phelps
To encourage possible rebuilding if needed here is a picture of a veteran that has been rebuilt quite thoroughly for three times, finally retired in 2013.
Regarding transformers, Finland would not require rebuilding, possibly some tap modification, possibly not even that. Denmark could probabliy get by with tap modification. Sweden and Norway, new transformers.
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